Rank the value of a position in football

Skills

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By value I mean, if you took a top 3 in the world-ish caliber of player in that position, and plunked him into a bang average team (say 10th in the league), rank them by the impact they would make? (Essentially their Wins Above Replacement)

Positions :

GK
FB
CB
DM
CM (Traditional 8)
Attacking Midfield
Winger (Chance Creator)
Wide Forward (Goal Scoring)
Striker (Goal scorer)
 

Skills

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Striker is still top with attacking midfielder a close second.
I agree with the striker at the top. But I'd say a goalscoring forward overtakes an attacking midfielder. Someone who can put the ball in the net themselves, is definitely more valuable than someone who can create a chance for someone else to do it (you're still relying on the other guy not fecking it up).
 

WolfInSharp'sClothing

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A goalscorer is important, but the value of a great CM is sometimes massively underestimated.

We’ve never won a PL game without Joao in our side!
 

IRELANDUNITED

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By value I mean, if you took a top 3 in the world-ish caliber of player in that position, and plunked him into a bang average team (say 10th in the league), rank them by the impact they would make? (Essentially their Wins Above Replacement)

Positions :

GK
FB
CB
DM
CM (Traditional 8)
Attacking Midfield
Winger (Chance Creator)
Wide Forward (Goal Scoring)
Striker (Goal scorer)
1st Striker
2nd Attacking midfielder
3rd CM
4th Winger
5th DM
6th CB
7th GK
8th FB
 

Big Ben Foster

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Surprised fullback is so underrated on here as a position. Top 3 for me without a doubt.
 

Skills

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Surprised fullback is so underrated on here as a position. Top 3 for me without a doubt.
I think a great FB makes a difference for top teams, but I don't know how much value they add in my scenario. Take a look at Andy Robertson for instance -a great fullback but he couldn't do anything to stop Hull getting relegated. Because of the position (out wide/away from the center of action) they can't influence the game as much in teams where you aren't necessarily on the front foot.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Question needs to be defined.

Best player in the world in that position vs average for the league?
 

The Original

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I have been thinking about and its a funny one but i really thinking having two good full backs could fundamentally change the way a team plays. So for me it's full back but only if you have a pair of really good ones.
 

Skills

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Question needs to be defined.

Best player in the world in that position vs average for the league?
I think I've said in the OP top 3-ish calibre of player (in their respective position). That's to remove outliers/generational type of players like the Messi's/Ronaldo's who will dominate the discussion.
 

Jibbs

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the most important positions are the core of the team, the three positions that form the back bone. 1, striker; 2 CM; 3 CB. After that it comes down to how the team plays, what formation they follow, in which positions do they have their best players etc.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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Goalkeeper is being seriously underrated, dodgy keeper basically drops the the quality of the whole defence for metal reasons.
 

giorno

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Rank by position is pointless nowadays since the best players in the world generally need to be elite at multiple aspects of the game or otherwordly at one

It's also meaningless without context

That said, forwards/strikers and attacking/midfield playmakers are the ones more likely to have the biggest impact
 

Skills

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Goalkeeper is being seriously underrated, dodgy keeper basically drops the the quality of the whole defence for metal reasons.
Yes, but in most cases you'll be more than fine with an average keeper.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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Yes, but in most cases you'll be more than fine with an average keeper.
Depends how you define an average goalkeeper, who’s the last average goalkeeper to win a top league for example. When a goalkeeper makes an outstanding save he is basically scoring you a goal, if that makes sense.
 

Lyricist

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Can’t understand people just rating the positions’ importances based on how likely it is to score goals from the positions.

The only right answers should be those that value the whole spine of the team. Both offensive as well defensive shape are important. I think if anything, wingers get overrated a bit although obviously a great one really makes a difference.
 

The Urban Goose

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4-5-1:

GK £70m
LB £50m
RB £50m
CB £80m
CB £70m
CM £70m
CM £80m
RW £100m
LW £100m
AM £120m
CF £120m

Manager: priceless.
 

DWelbz19

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Difficult to measure but;
ST, wide goalscoring wingers, attacking midfielders (top)
CB, CM (mid)
GK (low/mid)
Typical winger, FB (lower)
 

Skills

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Would that be a one off? I knew someone would say him. :lol:
Hart too. Not as bad as people make him out, but an average to good keeper who played in two title winning teams.

Mignolet is my definition keeper for this example - he's about as average as it gets (PL level keeper but that's about it) and he once finished 2nd with Liverpool. Liverpool also went to a CL final with Karius. Now obviously, the closer you get to the top, the better your opposition is and that's when the difference in quality of keepers/full backs etc start to really make a difference (and that's where they cost there teams - at the last hurdle).
 

giorno

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Yes, but in most cases you'll be more than fine with an average keeper.
A top side, sure

Relegation fodder? GK might be even more important than the striker

Newcastle and Palace look set to stay up and they owe it entirely to their goalkeepers. Not sure an Aguero or Salah or De Bruyne could've had the same impact
 

Bebestation

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I'd say just to try be a bit more specific that a left footed right winger maybe more harder to find than a striker.

Messi, Salah, Bale, Ousmane Dembele, Di Maria, Bernardo Silva, Mahrez, Pepe have all been expensive or raised in worth after some wonderful performances in a league pre or post transfer.

Something about the left foot in particular is very rare.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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I think it is very hard to rank. The position you might get away with crap the most is attacking midfield probably. You can still defend and if you got a clinical striker and some good wingers you could still score and create. People might not think we get away with Lingard and Pereira, but they do not normally cost us the games and Rashford could still score a lot.
Second would be one winger I think. If you got one top winger and the other is poor then that could still work. Although teams might focus on stopping the other wing.
Still we see weaker teams often having one good winger and still getting fine results. Leicester won the league with one top winger in Mahrez.
Third would be striker, but it would need other players to get the goals. You see teams like Sheffield, Newcastle grinding out wins without strikers scoring goals. It is not pretty and boring, but it can work.

Although to be great then I think the midfield is key. That is what allows you to dominate the games and stop being dominated. Wingers can also raise a team a lot doing multiple things at the highest level. Barcelona under Pep showed what a top midfield could do. We see it with City now as well and Liverpool in a different way.
Kante was massive for Leicester when they won it and for Chelsea when they won it.

Least important is central defenders for being a top side. They are important, but it is most easy to carry crap there if your squad is great. They are the least important in attack even if passing from the back can improve your side. If you defend well as a team you can still win many games. We have seen it with City a lot although they have struggled more this season with less cover in front of them. A great leader like Van Dijk can be key still, but you can have a Lovren with him and still look great.
Two crap central defenders normally hurt you, but if the rest of the side is great you can get away with it more than other positions. This is for top teams that dominate the games. For mid table sides central defenders are more important in order to deal with crosses, set pieces and holding the team together.

Having a great striker can win you a lot, but only if you give them decent service. Although some strikers can do things on their own just like the top wingers.
Fullbacks being crap in attack might not be super important for smaller teams, but if they are crap at defending you could get destroyed on the wings if you play against top wingers. We see that with some of weaker teams in the PL. Attacking fullbacks is also key for top sides.

I think the most potent players to raise a team is players like Hazard, Neymar, Mane, Rashford, Messi, Ronaldo. Great on their own with unique abilities that can function even with poor players around them. To raise a team with decent players a guy like De Bruyne, Pogba, Di Maria, Coutinho, Mueller, Özil (in the past) etc might do wonder.
Defensive midfielders are key, but there are more players around that could do a great job compared to more attacking players. Although put crap there and you could get destroyed. We have seen Arsenal doing it for years.
 

Zehner

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Depends on the system. In football, you can build your way of playing around the best players you have.

That being said, generally reducing it to where you can score most goals is school boy logic. IMO, in elite teams, the striker has rarely been the most important player of the team.
 

roonster09

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There is no right answer to this, it all depends on the combination and set up. Most importantly it depends on the quality of the player.
 

Ish

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There is no right answer to this, it all depends on the combination and set up. Most importantly it depends on the quality of the player.
This. Seems the system as a whole, is much more important but also dictates the importance of a position. It’s almost impossible to quantify because Pep needed attacking fullbacks and a CB & GK who could distribute - but arguably he had the rest of his team in place. Klopps system - CM’s seem least important as they’re mainly just “hardworkers” - but that’s underrating the work they do in order for the rest to thrive.

But as a general opinion:

Wide scoring forward/forward
Wide creative forward
Fullbacks
CB
Attacking mid
DM
CM
GK
 

_00_deathscar

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Yes, but in most cases you'll be more than fine with an average keeper.
That depends on how much you want to change the position of this hypothetical 10th place team.
If it's just to 4-6 let's say, you could probably get away with an average goalkeeper (see also, Liverpool until 2018).
If you want to be a top, top team, you need a top, top goalkeeper (see again, Liverpool post 2018).
 

11101

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Striker (Goal scorer)
Wide Forward (Goal Scoring)
CM (Traditional 8)
Attacking Midfield
CB
DM
GK
Winger (Chance Creator)
FB

No substitute for somebody who can put the ball in the net, but a close second is somebody who can control the game for you and make it easier for everybody else in the team.
 

Skills

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That depends on how much you want to change the position of this hypothetical 10th place team.
If it's just to 4-6 let's say, you could probably get away with an average goalkeeper (see also, Liverpool until 2018).
If you want to be a top, top team, you need a top, top goalkeeper (see again, Liverpool post 2018).
Yes but then you're choosing to answer a different question to the one I'm asking.
 

Web of Bissaka

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Irrespective of whatever the actual positions are:

1st - Goalscorers (score to win games, normally strikers/forwards)

2nd - Chance Creators (usually midfielders but FBs now is getting popular)

3rd - Stoppers (outfield players are more valuable than GK for me, as they stop higher/earlier and can contribute more, keepers are last resort)

*
World's best players are usually a combination of the first two, with goals more often than not the key-est criteria. Chances for stoppers (eg. CBs usually) to win it is slim but not impossible. It has been like this from before up till now.

Personally for me, Chance Creators players are the most valuable, whether they're midfielders (usually) or even strikers/FBs/CBs/GKs.
 

_00_deathscar

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Yes but then you're choosing to answer a different question to the one I'm asking.
Most teams could get away with an average keeper to be honest, as long as he isn't a complete spud and makes the occassional decent save, and having a dominant general spine or an X-Factor player could change their fortunes dramatically. A lot of that would depend on their existing frailities - are they having problems creating chances? Finishing them? Conceding too many goals? etc.
 

montpelier

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For below elite level and especially park footy, I'm going with the goalscoring wide man.

Because, he can wander all over, carry the ball and counter attack. Also he will annoy the opposition even if youre getting hammered.
 

harms

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It's quite a nice challenge.

  1. Striker. There's a reason they're worth more than anyone else.
  2. Wide Forward. In the modern interpretation they could even go first, if we consider the likes of Cristiano or Messi for this one.
  3. Center Back. If you have a world class CB with outstanding leadership and organisational qualities, he can elevate your defence on another level.
  4. Central Midfielder. Depends on their playing style, of course. Ideally it would be someone like Modrić, with enough graft and energy to tie everything together and then with an additional contribution in the final third. They're a bit more dependant on their surroundings though.
  5. Attacking midfielder. Depends on the strikers that you already has — if you have a great finisher, the AM goes a couple places up.
  6. Goalkeeper. The most unique one. He can be THE most important and influential player, but for that it's not enough for him to be around top-3 in the world, you have to get one of the historical greats at their absolute peak. If you get Buffon or Kahn at the very top of their powers... recently we've seen it with De Gea, who saved us an enormous amount of points in our last "title challenge".
  7. Fullback. Only if we're talking about the modern one — the best example would be Dani Alves at Sevilla.
  8. Winger. In a modern game, fullbacks just edge it due to their defensive contribution.
  9. Defensive Midfielder. An incredibly important piece in every top team, but the least influential one in an average one.
I may answer differently tomorrow.
 

harms

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Fullback is second only to striker in the modern game.
Not for average teams. I can remember only Alves and arguably Baines being their sides most important players lately, and Sevilla was actually quite good.
 

giorno

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That depends on how much you want to change the position of this hypothetical 10th place team.
If it's just to 4-6 let's say, you could probably get away with an average goalkeeper (see also, Liverpool until 2018).
If you want to be a top, top team, you need a top, top goalkeeper (see again, Liverpool post 2018).
Wrong. Ajax and the netherlands had literally just some rando, milan had galli and rossi barcelona with victor valdes and claudio bravo, juventus with peruzzi, real madrid with keylor navas...

No, a top, top side does not need a top, top goalkeeper

It's the shite team that does