Rate our players in regard to their football intelligence

[Fortitude]

Mason has only just got into the team, but you can tell by practically his every action in the pitch his mind is cunning and sharp and his wasted actions few and far between. It's clear he has a high level of football intelligence.

It's not for me to go through each player, just curious how the caf rates our squad, either in a 1-x format or in terms of brackets/tiers.

 

[Skills]

Football intelligence

 

[Denis' cuff]

Was wondering this, about Greenwood. Is it instinctive or intelligence? Probably a blend of both. Hard to know where to draw a line. Eric, Scholes, Keane, Ruud etc etc all had intelligence but I think instinct is part of a natural gift that they had.

 

[simplyared]

One thing for sure footballing intelligence doesn't go hand in hand with general intelligence or IQ. Wayne Rooney is an example of that!

 

[Maticmaker]

I suppose it relates to what you mean by football intelligence?

Some players are able to create situations for themselves or others and that requires a form of football intelligence, i.e. to 'read the game' is a phrase often used. Other players are quickest to spot situations that have occurred, or those about to arise so, its really speed of thought in sizing things up, but is that 'football intelligence', more like 'natural instinct' perhaps?

For me most good defenders 'read the game' they know where to be and when to arrive, (Maguire) how to get players where they want them and to tackle in a timely fashion (AWB). Forwards (Rashford) tend to rely on instinct and speed of thought, to create or exploit space, etc.

The truly great players have I believe, both a high level of football intelligence and the instinct/speed of thought to capitalise on their opponents mistakes... not sure we have any of these just now, but Mason Greenwood looks a good bet!

 

[norm87cro]

Let's just say I often question Pogba's decision making

 

[always_hoping]

Mata one of the most intelligent players but his legs nowadays aren't able to bring him where his mind wants to go..

 

[harms]

McTominay actually looks very decent in that regard. Greenwood as well. Pogba has an incredible vision and speed of thought but his decision-making is questionable.
I’m not sure if there’s anyone outstandingly intelligent in our team though. Mata was at his peak and perhaps he still is (look at the pass for Martial’s goal), but his physical limitations are so drastic that you can rarely see it anymore.

 

[Offside]

Pogba - 0

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

De gea must be smart in football negociations getting that fat contract after being crap for a year.

 

[TsuWave]

Eh, I feel like threads like this contribute nothing but toxicity.

Pogba - 0

Yeah. That explains why he’s 26 and already has had a career better than what 90% of footballers, including United ones, could ever dream of. 0 “football intelligence” Pogba has.

 

[Offside]

Yeah. That explains why he’s 26 and already has had a career better than what 90% of footballers, including United ones, could ever dream of. 0 “football intelligence” Pogba has.

Sorry I was wumming a little. But he isn't the brightest footballer out there.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

No.

 

[Dante]

The vast majority of posters on this forum are unqualified to judge other people's football intelligence.

It's like asking a bunch of deaf people what their favourite song is.

 

[VeevaVee]

Sorry I was wumming a little. But he isn't the brightest footballer out there.

Agreed. He regularly makes poor choices. Holding on to the ball for too long, trying to dance through midfield and losing possession. He often plays to the strengths he believes he has rather than those he does.

 

[George Beast]

Mata, Greenwood - Offensively intelligent
McTominay - Midfield intelligence
AWB, Lindelof - Defensively Intelligent

 

[Cutch]

Phil Jones is pretty low on this scale

 

[::sonny::]

+ Maguire
+ McT
+ Greenwood

- Jones
- Pereira
- Rojo

 

[Forevergiggs1]

The vast majority of posters on this forum are unqualified to judge other people's football intelligence.

It's like asking a bunch of deaf people what their favourite song is.

Not at all. Football intelligence is on show every single week by decisions footballers make. It really does put into perspective how lacking our club really is in this department. The only intelligent player I'd say we have is Mata. The brain's still sharp but the legs have gone.

 

[Uniteddy]

Does this not depend on how you define football intelligence.
Broadly it would be processing information quickly and making good decisions based on this information.

But every action a player does on a pitch involves some level of decision making.

Initially what I think of as demonstration of football intelligence is your traditional number 10.
This player operates in the most congested area of the pitch. Typically they will have to process position and movement of 4 defenders, plus opposition midfielders, 6 to 8 of his team mates, and the football itself. How all of these variables interact with each other, with him and with the goal. It is a huge amount of constantly changing information, if you tried to model it you would need a super-computer.

The best exponents of this position take in all this data, make a quick decision and have technique to execute this correctly. Then they repeat that, over and over. They recognize flaws, mismatches, gaps in defense, they have 360 awareness of awareness and make passes that others don't even see.

I am coming around to accepting there is another form, which probably requires more on processing speed and but there are fewer variables. This is probably closer to what people call talent/skill. It is what Messi and the great dribblers have. They can recognise tiny subtle changes when opponent is off balance /wrong footed and instantaneously beat them with simple touches. AWB has this in form for reacting to opponents and getting in tackles.

I would say AWB is lacking in the first form of intelligence above, partially due to inexperience. He does get caught out of position and makes some poor decisions when there are more choices to pick from. But when he has limited choices like in a one on one, he is excellent. Rashford is probably another in this category.

Mata probably is one of our best in the first type. Greenwood looks really promising, I have been so impressed with his decision making, especially for his age. I think Lingard is quite decent in this aspect, his movement intelligence is good, but his execution or technique lets him down a bit.

Our lack of true intelligent attacking players is probably one reason we struggle against packed defenses. But in counter attacks, when it is about speed of thought and speed of action we excel.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

"Football intelligence" purely in decisions making in games, which can and tend to be instinctive-sense based. Can also be due to exps, or good coaching/learning, but I'm not seeing that much from exp players. Either you have it or don't. I think this is what you call "football maturity" (?) then again, what do I know.

+ Greenwood - attacking, passing and general movements.
+ McTominay - passing, retention, foul winning, set piece positioning and defending.

That's about it.
I think also Mata, but it's getting harder nowadays to see it since he rarely able to produce his usual sudden intelligence plays.
Arguably also at times Young and Rojo, especially relating with football dark arts but then they also tend to make WTH decisions so idk.

 

[Isotope]

If he's not a destroyer type, midfielder usually has high footballing IQ. That's where the action mostly take place. When people say Pogba doesn't have one, just go watch Pogba in his last World Cup. He's the heart of every good things France made, bridging defence to attack. Also watched the first 10 games Ole was in charge that got him the job.

 

[Dante]

Not at all. Football intelligence is on show every single week by decisions footballers make. It really does put into perspective how lacking our club really is in this department. The only intelligent player I'd say we have is Mata. The brain's still sharp but the legs have gone.

Case in point.

 

[TsuWave]

Same thread where people are criticising Pogba they giving Mctominay plus signs for his passing. For feck’s sake

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Rashford is the smartest we have because he realises that through hard work and dedication he'll keep on improving and become a special player.

 

[lysglimt]

Oh this is a hopeless one.

Take Pereira for instance - he always tries to find intelligent passes, but quite often lack the skills to get it spot on. Does that mean he has a lot of footballing intelligence for spotting and attempting those passes, or does he lack intelligence for attempting something that works 3 out of 10 times ?

 

[Andycoleno9]

Lingard and Jones. Being shit player and playing for Man Utd and even getting new upgraded contract, deserves reward

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Rashford is the smartest we have because he realises that through hard work and dedication he'll keep on improving and become a special player.

For sure has to be one of the highest, things may not always come off for him but he has the mental toughness to continuously provide the same high level of intensity over 90 minutes.

I want to say Wan Bissaka as well, his defensive timing is a form of art. He just doesn’t get beaten, he’s definitely a lot more intelligent than the opposition wingers he faces.

 

[harms]

Arguably also at times Young and Rojo, especially relating with football dark arts but then they also tend to make WTH decisions so idk.

Wait, what? Rojo is literally the furtherest player from the top on the hypothetical football intelligence scale. His play is all about his instincts and physical qualities (which, evidently, isn't enough to perform at the top level consistently).

 

[goatmeister]

Mata is the most intelligent when it comes to readin flow of the game and usage of football. He's as good as David Silva (even better left foot), too bad his physique regressed much faster than the City man. I used to feel that something's about to happen when Mata was on the ball, but that was ages ago.

Among the current crop, Maguire is pretty good. Not amazing, but he reads the game well and make use whatever assets he has. He's not super strong, tall or fast but gets to be among top CB in premier league.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Mata has football intelligence but he doesn’t have the legs anymore. Greenwood’s decision making looks to be very good.

The worse for me is Martial. He often tries to play 1-2s with players who simply haven’t understood what he was trying to do. Lack of movement off the ball as well.

Rashford as well. Since his confidence has gone up with shooting he now shoots from any angle. There was one in the Everton game where Shaw had done an overlap run for the first time in 5 years and Rashford decided to shoot on his weaker foot than pass the ball.

 

[tenpoless]

From 0 to 9.

1. De Gea : 7.752
2. AWB : 7.749
3. Jones : 4.721
4. Smalling : 4.872 (United) / 8.721 (Roma)
5. Maguire : 7.869
6. Lindelof : 7.710
7. Shaw : 6.578
8. McSauce : 7.895
9. Pogba : 8.082 (United) / 8.907 (France)
10. Fred : 7.723
11. James : 7.821
12. Rashford : 7.793
13. Greenwood : 7.893
14. Mata : 7.971
15. Martial : 7.582
16. Lingard : 6.444
17. Haaland : 7.819

 

[Isotope]

It is interesting when people don't have Pogba as one of the intelligent ones at United.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Sorry I was wumming a little. But he isn't the brightest footballer out there.

Anyone who understands anything of football should be able to see that Pogba's football intelligence is far above average.

What do you think enables those passes, and vision? Let me guess, 'Athleticism'...?

Or 'Physique'...?

 

[Rhyme Animal]

It is probably lazy racism when people don't have Pogba as one of the intelligent ones at United.

Fixed.

 

[Isotope]

Fixed.

I'm guessing it is more to do with his "appeared lack" of commitment to United.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Mason has only just got into the team, but you can tell by practically his every action in the pitch his mind is cunning and sharp and his wasted actions few and far between. It's clear he has a high level of football intelligence.

It's not for me to go through each player, just curious how the caf rates our squad, either in a 1-x format or in terms of brackets/tiers.

I don’t know if I would agree with this because although his goals are massive impacts on games he often seems on the periphery of the game. Especially out on the wing. In the box he tends to come alive and he just looks like he knows exactly what he is doing because I would say his movements in the box are better than any striker we’ve had since Falcao, RVP and the likes.

Overall I would say Pogba, Shaw, Martial, Fred seem to be the only ones that see a broader picture of how the game is being played, what they should be doing and covering danger areas. The rest aren’t anticipating they are just reacting.

Should add in Mata, just feel that 5 process information a lot quicker than all the others on the pitch.

 

[lsd]

Rashford is the smartest we have because he realises that through hard work and dedication he'll keep on improving and become a special player.

I like Rashford but in no way can you call him an intelligent player . You can make a trilogy of 4 hour films off his wrong decisions on the ball

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I like Rashford but in no way can you call him an intelligent player . You can make a trilogy of 4 hour films off his wrong decisions on the ball

He has a beautiful intellect, of that I'm sure.

 

[AshRK]

I don’t know if I would agree with this because although his goals are massive impacts on games he often seems on the periphery of the game. Especially out on the wing. In the box he tends to come alive and he just looks like he knows exactly what he is doing because I would say his movements in the box are better than any striker we’ve had since Falcao, RVP and the likes.

Overall I would say Pogba, Shaw, Martial, Fred seem to be the only ones that see a broader picture of how the game is being played, what they should be doing and covering danger areas. The rest aren’t anticipating they are just reacting.

Should add in Mata, just feel that 5 process information a lot quicker than all the others on the pitch.

Shaw. The guy cannot make simple short passes and gets outsmarted in a simple one on one occasions. He needs to be told by managers when to go forward and when to stay back. The guy has zero sense of understanding of the game. There were many occasions even today when he could have made some easy passes forward and yet he takes his time only to complicate the simple pass. I don't think he is the good if you ask me.