Rate their mentality ( Armchair Psychology Thread)

[Desert Eagle]

Disregard footballing skill, how do our players stack up? Mentality encompasses a lot of things so let me be clear. I'm talking about things like professionalism, dedication, desire, ability to handle pressure, habits of winners, wanting to constantly improve, sacrificing for a teammate etc. Ignoring the youngsters:

A) - Martinez

B) Bruno, Varane, Casemiro, Antony, Hojlund

C) Mctom, Maguire, Shaw, AWB, Onana, Amrabat

D) Rashford, Sancho, Dalot, Martial


Compare that to a team like Arsenal or Liverpool where even their poor players have better intangibles than our stars. I think I'm being generous with some Bs too, what do you guys reckon?

 

[Champ]

This unbelievable knack that United fans have of simultaneously putting our players down whilst bigging our rivals up is grating to say the least.

Arsenal were last seen bottling the league from a ridiculously healthy position last season. Where was their mentality then?
It's pretty simple really, when winning a team is confident and so will have an improved mindset, when they don't the reverse is true.
Last season is a prime example of this with United.

 

[T00lsh3d]

Disregard footballing skill, how do our players stack up? Mentality encompasses a lot of things so let me be clear. I'm talking about things like professionalism, dedication, desire, ability to handle pressure, habits of winners, wanting to constantly improve, sacrificing for a teammate etc. Ignoring the youngsters:

A) - Martinez

B) Bruno, Varane, Casemiro, Antony, Hojlund

C) Mctom, Maguire, Shaw, AWB, Onana, Amrabat

D) Rashford, Sancho, Dalot, Martial


Compare that to a team like Arsenal or Liverpool where even their poor players have better intangibles than our stars. I think I'm being generous with some Bs too, what do you guys reckon?

Whoa, what’s Dalot done to deserve the lowest tier?

 

[fergiewherearethou]

Whoa, what’s Dalot done to deserve the lowest tier?

He checks his pulse every time he scores, must be a mentality issue.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Whoa, what’s Dalot done to deserve the lowest tier?

Switches off during matches consistently, the only period where he looked fit and motivated was when he was trying to make the world cup squad.

This unbelievable knack that United fans have of simultaneously putting our players down whilst bigging our rivals up is grating to say the least.

Arsenal were last seen bottling the league from a ridiculously healthy position last season. Where was their mentality then?
It's pretty simple really, when winning a team is confident and so will have an improved mindset, when they don't the reverse is true.
Last season is a prime example of this with United.

Last season we had Casemiro, Licha and Varane playing most of the games. I don't think it's a coincidence that we've looked so lost and deviod of leadership without them. As for Arsenal they bottled it last year haha but they have a very young team and are again in the mix this year. Some of our players would be talking about second place like an achievement to be celebrated.

Feel free to attempt to praise our players. Those two teams i mentioned are currently better than ours with more talented players who have a stronger mentality. Of course there are factors independent of the individual like the manager, club culture etc

 

[Nickelodeon]

Whoa, what’s Dalot done to deserve the lowest tier?

Don't agree with it but his high-fives for kicking the ball out of play annoy certain people.

 

[whitbyviking]

Varane has all but clocked out and you have him in the 2nd tier?

 

[Dec9003]

I’d say Maguire has comfortably the best mentality at the moment.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Casemiro, Bruno and Varane are the only ones who have top tier mentality. Maybe Eriksen too.

 

[Scandi Red]

We can only go by work ethic, on field antics and interviews. But this is only a small part of the equation. How are they training, eating and recovering? Do they listen to the manager? How well do they actually deal with hardships, body language aside?

Based on the very little I have to go by the likes of Martinez and Bruno seem to have a good mentality. The former might occasionally lose his cool and the latter's complaining might rub his team mates the wrong way, but then again top level athletes should be able to endure this. If you can't endure Bruno closing his eyes and raising his arms then good luck playing alongside Roy Keane

Casemiro and Varane are obvious winners, but are they giving us their best effort these days? I'm not so sure.

 

[Slevs]

"ability to handle pressure, habits of winners"

I'd add overcome adversity/knockdowns during matches to the above

We are very short of players with this mindset.

You can be as professional as you want, and sacrifice for a teammate as much as you want, but you see it all the time on matchday. We concede 1 goal, heads go down and we concede the 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc.

Fergie's teams used to win games scoring 2 goals in 2 minutes while losing the entire game, simply because the players had that "we will not lose" attitude when it came to football matches. That is very much missing in this squad/club since the great man retired.
Of the current players who I think can handle pressure and can overcome adversity during a game:

Martinez, Garnacho, Hojlund, Eriksen, Casemiro (shit this season but mentality is still there), Fernandes (not all the time), Hannibal, Mainoo (haven't seen enough to properly judge but so far seems to belong in this group). You can maybe add Shaw on some matchdays to this list.

The rest just fold and bend over to take the hiding to be able to go home peacefully

 

[Champ]

Switches off during matches consistently, the only period where he looked fit and motivated was when he was trying to make the world cup squad.



Last season we had Casemiro, Licha and Varane playing most of the games. I don't think it's a coincidence that we've looked so lost and deviod of leadership without them. As for Arsenal they bottled it last year haha but they have a very young team and are again in the mix this year. Some of our players would be talking about second place like an achievement to be celebrated.

Feel free to attempt to praise our players. Those two teams i mentioned are currently better than ours with more talented players who have a stronger mentality. Of course there are factors independent of the individual like the manager, club culture etc

Casemiro actually missed a healthy amount of games last season and let's not mention his form this season.

I don't think Arsenal players have a stronger mentality, for sure they are more confident, but their mentality leaves a lot to be desired still.

I think your are misconstruing confidence for mentality. The two are interlinked but are separate from each other. United currently are not confident, we see that when we go a goal up, the team doesn't seem to have the confidence in holding on to that lead.

But mentally the team is pretty strong, we've seen that against Brentford, Fulham, Forest and Sheffield United. Games where the backs were against the wall yet they carried on and got something from it.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I'd say Eriksen probably has a pretty strong mentality to you know, come back from actual death.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Casemiro actually missed a healthy amount of games last season and let's not mention his form this season.

I don't think Arsenal players have a stronger mentality, for sure they are more confident, but their mentality leaves a lot to be desired still.

I think your are misconstruing confidence for mentality. The two are interlinked but are separate from each other. United currently are not confident, we see that when we go a goal up, the team doesn't seem to have the confidence in holding on to that lead.

But mentally the team is pretty strong, we've seen that against Brentford, Fulham, Forest and Sheffield United. Games where the backs were against the wall yet they carried on and got something from it.

I'm not sure why people always read into this as "mentality". Think to when you played football, it's hardly uncommon to go a goal down and then draw or win, it's very much just part of how most sports work. It's not some incredible feat to then wrestle a game even if it was against a top team, let alone lower placed teams.

Mentality for me is consistency, does a player track his man, do they compete for 50/50's, do they make good decisions? The hardest part of football unless you are supremely gifted is the grueling yards off the ball, the usually thankless running that is a prerequisite for processional football. They are boring details individually but they add up to make a great player. It's not about someone who shouts and screams and people think 'my goodness, he's passionate, what a great mentality' - it's looking over the course of a season and seeing whose level is the most constant, who can you count on.

 

[T00lsh3d]

Switches off during matches consistently, the only period where he looked fit and motivated was when he was trying to make the world cup squad.

Switches off in matches yes, but I’m surprised to hear someone call Dalot unmotivated. He strikes me as a player who’s worked hard on his game, been out on loan, come back and fought for a place in the team/squad.

Don't agree with it but his high-fives for kicking the ball out of play annoy certain people.

I don’t mind defenders being pumped, in fact I like it.

 

[Based Adnan]

Wan Bissaka is a complete mute on the pitch and has had his fair share of off the pitch issues as well. He should be bottom.

 

[sullydnl]

Putting Dalot in the same tier as Sancho and Martial is ridiculous.

 

[caid]

I'd swap Dalot and Wan Bisakka.

 

[caid]

Wan Bisakka is back to jogging back when we lose the ball and being hopeless on the back post.

 

[TsuWave]

Insane thread.

You guys don’t know these people and only get a very limited peek into what they do and go through.

Thread is mental and comes off as a disingenuous attempt to pile up on players that people already don’t like and have preconceived notions of (and even potential stereotypes).

 

[Tibs]

Sancho, Martial, Rashford are rock bottom, and unfortunately it seems like two of these have a big influence on the others.

 

[bosnian_red]

Dalot being bottom is nonsense when you consider that he was one of the very few to have a consistently respectable personal level and work rate during Rangnicks time .. thinking a player is average has nothing to do with their mentality. Ronaldo even has publicly said that dalot has an elite mentality. But I'm supposed to believe Desert Eagle from the caf because he let a back post headed go in...

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Disregard footballing skill, how do our players stack up? Mentality encompasses a lot of things so let me be clear. I'm talking about things like professionalism, dedication, desire, ability to handle pressure, habits of winners, wanting to constantly improve, sacrificing for a teammate etc. Ignoring the youngsters:

A) - Martinez

B) Bruno, Varane, Casemiro, Antony, Hojlund

C) Mctom, Maguire, Shaw, AWB, Onana, Amrabat

D) Rashford, Sancho, Dalot, Martial


Compare that to a team like Arsenal or Liverpool where even their poor players have better intangibles than our stars. I think I'm being generous with some Bs too, what do you guys reckon?

Just for mentality I think Dalot belongs in B and Antony should be C as he can be quite petulant at times on the pitch with discipline issues and the drama surrounding him suggests an immaturity to get involved with these things.

Maguire should be A, despite his lack of ability the man takes all this adversity, backs himself, doesn't speak out publicly and works hard, also Shaw has come back from multiple horrific injuries and re-invented himself as a CB, hard to know why he or Onana are only C, disagree with a lot of this and think you are letting performances speak too much here

 

[Champ]

I'm not sure why people always read into this as "mentality". Think to when you played football, it's hardly uncommon to go a goal down and then draw or win, it's very much just part of how most sports work. It's not some incredible feat to then wrestle a game even if it was against a top team, let alone lower placed teams.

Mentality for me is consistency, does a player track his man, do they compete for 50/50's, do they make good decisions? The hardest part of football unless you are supremely gifted is the grueling yards off the ball, the usually thankless running that is a prerequisite for processional football. They are boring details individually but they add up to make a great player. It's not about someone who shouts and screams and people think 'my goodness, he's passionate, what a great mentality' - it's looking over the course of a season and seeing whose level is the most constant, who can you count on.

Yet you are just describing what players have to do to rescue games when they look like they're a lost cause, put that extra bot of work in, run that extra distance etc.

I think United's issues stem from a distinct lack of quality in certain positions, I don't think mentality or application for vast majority of players is an issue. There's an argument to say we have had two players reduce their application, sure, but on the flip side we have seen greater work rate from three or four other players.

 

[VivaObertan]

Dalot should be B, but otherwise I roughly agree. Eriksen would also be B, Lindelof in C.

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

"Disregarding footballing skill....."

So why have you Maguire only in C? Your rating of him seems purely based on his perceived footballing ability, because he definitely has a stronger mentality than that.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Yet you are just describing what players have to do to rescue games when they look like they're a lost cause, put that extra bot of work in, run that extra distance etc.

I think United's issues stem from a distinct lack of quality in certain positions, I don't think mentality or application for vast majority of players is an issue. There's an argument to say we have had two players reduce their application, sure, but on the flip side we have seen greater work rate from three or four other players.

But then the question is why is the 'mentality' of not doing the bolded to begin with then gets praised, when for the bulk of a game they don't do it?

I refuse to believe certain players couldn't run more - these are professional athletes - but that part of football is the part so few players want to do, particularly attacking ones. You can generally carry one offensive player who isn't grafting defensively but you can't really set up with Martial, Rashford and Bruno in a team and not expect to face countless counter attacks down Rashford's flank and through the centre. Add Mount at 8 and you are likely to take a beating because the offensive quality is not so great that it's worth the risk. There is a lack of quality, sure, particularly in the middle when McT starts but you can't just try and plug gaps by throwing money at better players if the system remains lopsided or broken.

 

[crossy1686]

“Let’s list the players we don’t like based on their personality despite not knowing anything about them” thread.

 

[Champ]

But then the question is why is the 'mentality' of not doing the bolded to begin with then gets praised, when for the bulk of a game they don't do it?

I refuse to believe certain players couldn't run more - these are professional athletes - but that part of football is the part so few players want to do, particularly attacking ones. You can generally carry one offensive player who isn't grafting defensively but you can't really set up with Martial, Rashford and Bruno in a team and not expect to face countless counter attacks down Rashford's flank and through the centre. Add Mount at 8 and you are likely to take a beating because the offensive quality is not so great that it's worth the risk. There is a lack of quality, sure, particularly in the middle when McT starts but you can't just try and plug gaps by throwing money at better players if the system remains lopsided or broken.

Really? Are you asking why a football team might be behind in a game? Or why they might concede a goal?
It's fecking football mate, that stuff happens, unfortunately we have to accept that in some positions United just don't have the quality to compete at the highest level, also we are tactically naive at times.
Yet with the vast majority of players the application and aptitude seems to be there.

 

[harms]

So why have you Maguire only in C? Your rating of him seems purely based on his perceived footballing ability, because he definitely has a stronger mentality than that.

He did crumble under the pressure for like 2 seasons before attempting a comeback. I'm sure that he would be rated pretty highly in terms of professionalism, training et cetera but he isn't the best in terms of dealing with pressure, on or off the pitch.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Really? Are you asking why a football team might be behind in a game? Or why they might concede a goal?
It's fecking football mate, that stuff happens, unfortunately we have to accept that in some positions United just don't have the quality to compete at the highest level, also we are tactically naive at times.
Yet with the vast majority of players the application and aptitude seems to be there.

You've lost me. You said:

Yet you are just describing what players have to do to rescue games when they look like they're a lost cause, put that extra bot of work in, run that extra distance etc.

and I'm saying I don't think this shows good or bad mentality, it's just football. It's kind of telling it mainly happens against weaker teams.

Disagree re application though - if you have 11 players and more than 1 isn't grafting off the ball, you will struggle against most teams at a decent level. I'd say that happens for us most games these days.

 

[steve zizou]

I know this is only armchair but I think would be good to have us rank individual mental attributes like in football manager rather than lumping them into groups. Because some players are very strong mentally at one thing and terrible at others.
Can score players out of 20 and add it all up. Maybe can even weigh the scoring according to positions as different positions require excelling in different mentalities.

• Aggression (Go-getter attitude; wanting it more)
• Anticipation (Sensing danger and opportunities)
• Bravery (in making decisions/taking action)
• Composure (when making decisions/taking action, keeping cool in the heat)
• Concentration (Making good decisions under pressure)
• Creativity (Ability to solve problems on the pitch)
• Decision Making (In Possession)
• Determination (Not giving up)
• Flair (Inventiveness, style)
• Influence (on the pitch, in the dressing room)
• Off the Ball (Reading the game)
• Positioning (Consistently being at the right place at the right time)
• Teamwork (Willingness to work with others)

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

A.) Martinez, Casemiro, Varane

B.) Onana, Bruno, Hojlund,

C.) Shaw, Eriksen, Antony

D.) The rest

Bruno was tough to rank for me. Obviously very professional off the pitch and has huge dedication and desire, but loses his composure constantly in tough matches and is often a huge reason for why we invite pressure on our selves trying to see a game out. I also don't think he's gotten any better since he came here, he's essentially the same player as when we bought him both good and bad.

 

[Lee565]

What is with the love in with martinez, the guy has basically missed most of the periods of things going down hill since joining so how can anyone know how he acts with adversity, his ability is also greatly overrated on here as he has had almost as many dodgy games as Harry since ten hag joined and he has been in the starting line up for most games where we thrashed and goes to ground way too much in the modern game

 

[TheReligion]

What is with the love in with martinez, the guy has basically missed most of the periods of things going down hill since joining so how can anyone know how he acts with adversity, his ability is also greatly overrated on here as he has had almost as many dodgy games as Harry since ten hag joined and he has been in the starting line up for most games where we thrashed and goes to ground way too much in the modern game

I’m not sure I trust your assessment with a post like this tbh

 

[Champ]

You've lost me. You said:

and I'm saying I don't think this shows good or bad mentality, it's just football. It's kind of telling it mainly happens against weaker teams.

Disagree re application though - if you have 11 players and more than 1 isn't grafting off the ball, you will struggle against most teams at a decent level. I'd say that happens for us most games these days.

You were claiming it was poor mentality in the squad for being behind or struggling in the games I listed, when it's moreso a case of the lucky nature of football, the Forest game is case in point.

As I keep repeating, and I feel you also agree, quality is more of an issue then mentality in this United squad.

 

[Hammondo]

I’d say Maguire has comfortably the best mentality at the moment.

I've criticised him a lot, but he's the hardest working and toughest currently. Does not like to give up anything.

 

[tomaldinho1]

You were claiming it was poor mentality in the squad for being behind or struggling in the games I listed, when it's moreso a case of the lucky nature of football, the Forest game is case in point.

As I keep repeating, and I feel you also agree, quality is more of an issue then mentality in this United squad.

I said we shouldn’t assume a good mentality is coming back against weaker teams when that’s just part of football. The fact the players almost need to concede before they pull their fingers out hints at a bad mentality if anything.

I’m unsure on quality in general versus mentality. I think you can play much more effective football with a lower quality of player - I think of Soton under Hasenhuttl or Leeds with Bielsa as lower team examples from recent years - if all your players are working their socks off. I don’t think work rate is to do with quality, that’s up to the player.

 

[Hammondo]

I can't see how Bruno can be so high with all the mentality problems he has.

 

[noodlehair]

Disregard footballing skill, how do our players stack up? Mentality encompasses a lot of things so let me be clear. I'm talking about things like professionalism, dedication, desire, ability to handle pressure, habits of winners, wanting to constantly improve, sacrificing for a teammate etc. Ignoring the youngsters:

A) - Martinez

B) Bruno, Varane, Casemiro, Antony, Hojlund

C) Mctom, Maguire, Shaw, AWB, Onana, Amrabat

D) Rashford, Sancho, Dalot, Martial


Compare that to a team like Arsenal or Liverpool where even their poor players have better intangibles than our stars. I think I'm being generous with some Bs too, what do you guys reckon?

Not going to get into pigeon holing mentality but I think this is harsh on Dalot.

I think he's just genuinely not very good/brainless positionally. Don't remember games where he's just aimlessly trudged about like Martial, or visibly sulked like Rashford.

Sancho also needs a category of his own as he literally has a mentality of choosing to never play football again over the prospect of having to play football.