What's the reliability of the source
Rayan Cherki
- Thread starter Berbaclass
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Can we have both Cherki and Franco Mastantuono?
Cherki on the right side to compete with Amad and Mastantuono to be a backup of Bruno.
Cherki on the right side to compete with Amad and Mastantuono to be a backup of Bruno.
Thought Mastantuono wasn't moving until 2026, if Cherki had similar level of output from wide area as Mbeumo I wouldn't be concerned about lack of goals. Mind you he doesn't play as a centre forward in quite the same way so understandable that's the case.
That's the word. If we bought him, it would be a bit like Chelsea buying Quenda for 26.
here's the thing....if we purchase Cunha, i don't see amorim going for another 10 as he could play Mount(who we know he likes for some odd reason), bruno or Amad there so is cherki a luxury buy?
seen mention of Amad playing RWB which is mental....he doesn't have the defensive disposition to play that role so he has to play one of the two 10's
seen mention of Amad playing RWB which is mental....he doesn't have the defensive disposition to play that role so he has to play one of the two 10's
Le Progrès is a local paper in Lyon and historically they are reliable with Lyon.
Nevertheless, I think that for Cherki, except the likes of Whitell, Romano and Ornstein, we have to follow Hugo Guillemet from L'Equipe, who is close to Lyon's board.
So I suppose that we have to wait for one of these 4 to provide an update on Cherki.
Finnaly, Lyon needs to sell for 40M€ until end of June to be compliant with French's DNCG (with is the French PSR), so maybe we'll have something on Cherki later next month
Agree with you but, what if Cunha becomes your sole striker (imagine we don't have money to buy a striker and Cunha is placed here over Rachmuch), then you would only have Bruno and Amad, with Mount always injured.
And also, what if one of the two gets injured, suspended etc... So it's maybe a backup solution.
To be honest, knowing that neither Cuhna or Ryan are big workers, we would have issues in terms of pressing and continuity so I am not sure, but in another hand, 30m€ for him s a bargain.
I still could if he is obtainable for reasonable fee
He's tended to do quite well at RWB so I don't mind him there for next season, because we're on a somewhat tight budget and probably won't get a proper RWB yet. Long term I agree, his skillset is much more suited to the R10 position.
Le Progrès is no longer to be trusted when it comes to transfers. They don't have their entries now with the new ownership. The reliable source is Guillemet from L'Equipe as you said.
Delap + Cunha + Cherki + Gyokeres. Would be a nice start to the rebuild.
There has never been any credible reports linking this guy to United, it's all coming from foreign sources which just use United as a stand-in for rich foreign club that will splash the cash, in order to drum up interest in the player, either from the club's side or the player's side. Romano has mentioned him, but only in the vaguest of terms, "United has asked to be kept informed, but have not made any moves yet". For Romano that means there is nothing there.
And just like there has been a large contingent of our fanbase that has been going in on Ugarte on all season, expect the same next season for whoever fills the roll people think Cherki will take, whether that's Cunha or Garnacho or Mbeuno, or someone else. But all season all the Joao Neves fanbois have been having a go at Ugarte because we didn't sign Neves, same thing will happen when we inevitably don't sign Cherki, probably worse, because his fanbois are already far more annoying.
And just like there has been a large contingent of our fanbase that has been going in on Ugarte on all season, expect the same next season for whoever fills the roll people think Cherki will take, whether that's Cunha or Garnacho or Mbeuno, or someone else. But all season all the Joao Neves fanbois have been having a go at Ugarte because we didn't sign Neves, same thing will happen when we inevitably don't sign Cherki, probably worse, because his fanbois are already far more annoying.
I need this. United need players that excite and currently we only have Amad - and the odd Zirkzee silky touch
true...u may get 15 games a season with him
croady is probably right for a reasonable fee but would he be an immediate starter? would that 30m quid be better served somewhere else that might be a starting XI type of player?
i don't think pressing in the 541 is really Amorim's style just from watching his Sporting teams play as they are more sit in tight and defend to possess when they have to against better sides but counter quickly when it's there which would suit Cunha and Cherki
he can get away with it against some teams in the premier league that are going to sit back and defend but he can't play that role against the teams that will attack us bc he just doesn't have the defensive instincts or mindset to track effectively
Erm, Bruno, cough cough
Zirkzee, Amad, Bruno, Mount, Cunha
How many 10s do we need?
How many 10s do we need?
Well Amad will be playing as a RWB and I think either one of Zirkzee or Mount will be moved on.
I disagree with the commentary on Amad's ability to play RWB. For a start, Amorim inherently plays a somewhat unbalanced system with a more defensive option on one side, and pretty much a winger on the other (preferably inverted). It's how he creates the overload with four attacking players instead of three. With Dorgu on the left, we should see the right side as being much closer to a winger than a defender. Whenever Amad has played there he has done very well, he's also very good at receiving the ball under pressure, turning, and progressing the play, which enormously helps our ability to progress the ball from the back. At Sporting he played Quenda as the RWB, who has the same sort of profile to Amad.
My disinclination to playing Amad at RWB has nothing to do with his ability to be great at the role, and everything to do with how perfect of a fit he is as the right sided 10. Ultimately I primarily want him in the attacking areas of the pitch almost all the time, and that inside right 10 role is tailor made for him. Not least because he has shown he can go inside or outside, which hugely increases our threat. His pressing is world class, which really helps our defending from the front.
So while I agree that I would rather have Amad as a 10, it is certainly not "mental" by any metric to hypothesize about line ups with Amad on the right.
I disagree with the inside right 10 being tailor made for Amad. His natural inclination is to go wide, and he's most effective when cutting in from the byline.
To be honest, his best position is almost certainly the right winger in a 4-3-3. Shifting him to wing back or 10 compromises him in one way or another.
Now, Cherki really is tailor made for this role. So if we signed him and Cunha, it would surely mean Amad at RWB in our best XI
Firstly, I think you need at the bare minimum 2 players per position to really compete across multiple competitions. Usually a blend of experienced, peak age, and developing players. So that would make 4. I would also then have a fifth to deal with injuries crises, radical dips in form and fixture congestion. Of the names you listed, Zirkzee can cover two positions, 9 and 10. Bruno will be used as an 8 plenty of times, and might even become his first choice position - especially as he ages - then from that list you only have 3 dedicated 10s, one of whom has had debilitating injuries for the last two years.
Frankly I would want 4 CMs all good enough to start, and 4 #10s all good enough to start. I would then want one utility CM who is versatile, and one utility AM/FW who is versatile (Zirkzee) to give us a deep enough squad to compete. When doing squad planning calculations for next season, I am counting Bruno as one of the CMs as opposed to one of the 10s. I think his workrate and passing from deep makes us a better team, and we need more pace in the 10 positions than he offers us. He still has an enormous goal threat from the #8 position. I would fully expect us to go into the season with Cunha and Amad as the first choice 10s, and Bruno plus one as the CM options. That would give us Garnacho and Mount as the rotational options.
I'd imagine Mainoo as Bruno's understudy and eventual successor, and Casemiro and Ugarte as rotating the other position. With a proper preseason all together, I am expecting a big leap forward from Ugarte next season. A player who has been hit or miss this season but is a high potential player with a pretty ideal skillset for the role. His main weakness has been receiving the ball under the press in the much higher octane PL. But after a season to acclimate and a proper group preseason, I am hoping for a very positive performance trajectory.
I think of much greater concern is that we need a proper RWB, who is closer to a winger than a defender, and another versatile WB who can play on other side and offer proper options going forwards. Out of Shaw, Amass, Mazroui (who is see as a third CB now) and Dalot, all our options after Dorgu are far too defensive to make this system work properly. After that a reliable keeper, a proper striker, and a ball playing CB would be my preference. I am also all for a peak age midfielder, who can play the defensive side of the game but also has the legs and physicality to bring it forwards and progress play (An Ederson type), but for that to happen I think there has to be at least one major outgoing in midfield from the existing options of Bruno, Casemiro, Mainoo, Ugarte and Collyer (who wouldn't really count as a major outgoing). Of that list, Casemiro, due to his age, is the only one who would really make sense to let go at this point, unless we got a 100m plus offer for Bruno. Which while painful to sanction, might make sense in the long term.
Would love to think this was possible, gives us a threat on both sides and through middle as well
Bruno doesn’t move me in that regard. He’s incredibly effective, but not someone that excites me on a technical level - this isn’t a criticism, mind. A player can still be very good without being the best and/or exciting dribbler.
Cherki has the same shortcomings as Antony and Sancho i.e. they all lack athleticism required in the PL. Would just be another Sancho mistake.
"..Cherki isn’t exactly blessed with a compact frame, so he’s not the most explosive on the ball. This, paired with his less-athletic physique (which I’ll touch upon later), means that Cherki’s ball-carrying isn’t his best trait. He has shown glimpses of it, but his lack of running power and physicality hold him back from genuinely unlocking the best of his ball-carrying.."
"...Earlier on, Cherki was an effective two-way dribbler, but post-injury there seems to be a noticeable decline in pace, meaning the ability isn’t the same..."
"...Cherki’s physique looks unimpressive at first glance. There’s a sense of complacency, almost, a feeling that he is not fit.
Cherki often struggles in duels. On the ground, it can be quite easy to dispossess him. his back to goal play, when having to rely on his physical abilities, is poor. He gets shoved off the ball quite easily unless he uses his technique. It is an area to improve upon..."
"..Cherki is not an intense pressure, and does not show any willingness to track back in settled possession when the ball is in his own half. While there have been complaints of a lack of motivation and commitment, I think this might also be down to the fitness issues that have been heavily discussed before.
https://medium.com/@the.near.posts/rayan-cherki-the-last-of-a-dying-breed-an-analysis-10bfe18b3855
"..Cherki isn’t exactly blessed with a compact frame, so he’s not the most explosive on the ball. This, paired with his less-athletic physique (which I’ll touch upon later), means that Cherki’s ball-carrying isn’t his best trait. He has shown glimpses of it, but his lack of running power and physicality hold him back from genuinely unlocking the best of his ball-carrying.."
"...Earlier on, Cherki was an effective two-way dribbler, but post-injury there seems to be a noticeable decline in pace, meaning the ability isn’t the same..."
"...Cherki’s physique looks unimpressive at first glance. There’s a sense of complacency, almost, a feeling that he is not fit.
Cherki often struggles in duels. On the ground, it can be quite easy to dispossess him. his back to goal play, when having to rely on his physical abilities, is poor. He gets shoved off the ball quite easily unless he uses his technique. It is an area to improve upon..."
"..Cherki is not an intense pressure, and does not show any willingness to track back in settled possession when the ball is in his own half. While there have been complaints of a lack of motivation and commitment, I think this might also be down to the fitness issues that have been heavily discussed before.
https://medium.com/@the.near.posts/rayan-cherki-the-last-of-a-dying-breed-an-analysis-10bfe18b3855
What a positive post
I think it's a case for me of being fed up with utd signing wingers/playmakers who don't have the physically, the acceleration and pace to beat a man and whip in a cross, for example. We have seen it with antony, seen it with Sancho. Cherki obviously has a higher potential ceiling than both but has the same physical limitations.
It's why I'm dubious about these reports of our interest. It would be buying the french Sancho.
Anyway that's my opinion. I'd much rather have a jet heeled winger who can torch the opposition fullback for fun, it's been a long while since we bought one of those.
Care to throw a name forward for this jet heeled winger?
I think it's a case for me of being fed up with utd signing wingers/playmakers who don't have the physically, the acceleration and pace to beat a man and whip in a cross, for example. We have seen it with antony, seen it with Sancho. Cherki obviously has a higher potential ceiling than both but has the same physical limitations.
It's why I'm dubious about these reports of our interest. It would be buying the french Sancho.
Anyway that's my opinion. I'd much rather have a jet heeled winger who can torch the opposition fullback for fun, it's been a long while since we bought one of those.
Whoever wrote all that is either terrible at football analysis or barely watched him play I'm afraid.
That's a particularly negative take on that article. If you read through the whole thing it doesn't come off anywhere near as negative.
I'd argue that Sancho and Cherki are not nearly similar enough to simply call Cherki the 'French Sancho'.
I think it's a case for me of being fed up with utd signing wingers/playmakers who don't have the physically, the acceleration and pace to beat a man and whip in a cross, for example. We have seen it with antony, seen it with Sancho. Cherki obviously has a higher potential ceiling than both but has the same physical limitations.
It's why I'm dubious about these reports of our interest. It would be buying the french Sancho.
Anyway that's my opinion. I'd much rather have a jet heeled winger who can torch the opposition fullback for fun, it's been a long while since we bought one of those.
Also, we're under no ilusions that Cherki is going to need to play on the wing, or indeed perform for us on the opposite flank than he did at his previous club.
Cherki is an out and out 10. And there is plenty of precedent of someone with his frame and physical ability / work rate succeeding in the PL... *ahem* Hazard and D.Silva.
At the projected cost, this is surely a must buy.
The article is nearly two years old? He is definitely a different player since then.
Then we should look to ruthlessly clear them before adding more numbers. Don't see the point in adding Cherki while so many options are already present.
Rather use the limit funds to get new GK and DLP
I’ve not checked this and I can’t remember what his numbers were like the last time I checked, but I thought Cherki had one of the best outputs in Europe this season, in terms of goals and assists?
EDIT 32 G&A in 44 games
Amad has played some of his best football as a RWB this season, he also fits the type of player Amorim likes to play there. More of a winger who has the capability to run up and down the pitch rather than a traditional full back.
The way I see it, next season our 10 options would be Cunha, Mount, Garna and Amad. Zirkzee isn't a 10 and Bruno/Kobbie will be used at CM. We need another left footer who can play as a 10, Cherki or Mbuemo (If funds available) would be my picks.
Bruno has played plenty of games as a 8 this season and I think that will be his primary position next year. If we are able to move Hojlund, then Zirkzee will be the backup 9 ( I don't think we will get both Delap and Gyokeres, it'll be one or the other).
So you're left with Mount, Amad, Garnacho and Cunha for those 2 positions. Maybe Amad is going to primarily be a RWB next season? In which case it would make sense to buy someone like Cherki.
The only problem I see with this move is, if it is the RWB money that we use to bring Cherki in, then were does that leave us if Amad gets injured. Back to Dalot or Mas at wing back which doesn't fill me with confidence. The wing back role is more physically demanding and Amad's injury record isn't great.
Him and Amad on the right side would be delightful.
Cunha beside him.
Bruno behind them.
Cunha beside him.
Bruno behind them.
Zirkzees not really a 10, amad has played his best games at rwb, Bruno has playing his best stuff in cm and mount is never fit. So that leaves cunha
Doesn't seem like the type that will be happy not starting every game, and I don't see him starting every game.
Don't agree with the 'he'll struggle physically' views in this thread. He's been able to handle the French league (which is an extremely physical league). There aren't many players that come from the French league and struggle Physically in the prem.
You have players like Mbuemo, Mahrez and Kante that came from the French ligue 2 and didn't struggle physically.
Only recent player I can think of is Ndombele but he was never really fit and was constantly overweight the same can be said about Ben Arfa and the last year of his in the prem.
You have players like Mbuemo, Mahrez and Kante that came from the French ligue 2 and didn't struggle physically.
Only recent player I can think of is Ndombele but he was never really fit and was constantly overweight the same can be said about Ben Arfa and the last year of his in the prem.
Well how many will be fit at the same time?