............................ TEAM HARMS .................................................................................. TEAM NM ..............................................
Team harms
Building a perfect 4-4-2 is a must for every drafter. The supposed simplicity of that formation highlights every little imperfection, and it becomes an incredibly entertaining challenge to get rid of all of them.
Francesco Toldo - Complete GK: pretty much the perfect modern goalkeeper, consistent with cat-like reflexes, also great with his feet due to playing outfield during the youth
Nilton Santos - Balanced FB: Tall, powerfully built, elegant and versatile, he was usually cool under pressure, turned quickly for such a big man, tackled firmly and was always ready to surge forward and make use of his strong left foot. Before 1958 World Cup final there were serious doubts over whether he could contain the rapid and elusive Swedish winger Kurt Hamrin, who had turned the German defence inside out in the semi-final in Gothenburg. In the event, it was no contest as both Nilton and Djalma Santos seized control. Nilton completely subdued Hamrin as, on the opposite flank, Djalma did the same against the speedy Lennart Skoglund.
Paul McGrath - Complete CB: elegant on the ball and fearless in tackles, Rafa's time in Barcelona saw him becoming one of the best center backs in the world. His intelligence and leadership makes him invaluable to this side.
Roberto Ayala - Aggressive CB: In the words of Rio Ferdinand: "he was phenomenal — strong, resolute, aggressive, quick, all the attributes you need to be a top defender".
Manfred Kaltz - Attacking right back: Kaltz joins Keegan, with whom they won the first league title in Hamburg's history and produced some memorable performances (the most impressive one would be the 5:1 demolition of Real Madrid in CL semi-final). His crosses were so good, they even got their own name, "bananenflanke". In the words of Hans Hrubesch: "Manni banana, I head, goal". You should not underestimate his defensive abilities though — at some point he played as a center back for West Germany, in their post-Kaizer period.
Ryan Giggs - Rampaging LW: we all remember young Giggs - incredible pace and dribbling ability, one of those players that kept you on the edge of your seat
Bryan Robson - Attacking B2B: one of the most complete midfielders of his time, he combined great technique and goalscoring with tactical intelligence and never-say-die attitude on and off the pitch. Captain.
Valery Voronin - Defensive midfielder: a player who was capable both of man-marking the likes of Eusebio and Albert out of the game, and orchestrating the play for USSR and Torpedo. Don't hesitate to ask more about him
Luis Figo - Playmaking RW: less incisive, more creative, Figo occupies his preferred right wing in a role that saw him winning Ballon D'Or and WPOTY when the likes of Ronaldo, Zidane were around.
Diego Forlan - Complete forward: Bound to be underrated here due to his United spell, but at his peak he was simply magnificent, prolific goalscorer (2 European golden boots, and 2010 World Cup Golden Ball and Top scorer), with fantastic work-rate and all-round game. I see the dynamics working somehow similar to his partnership with Agüero for Atleti and Suarez for Uruguay.
Kegin Keegan - Free-roaming forward: Opted for Keegan in this game, mostly for his sheer drive and leadership — while Müller is a better team player, Keegan is talismanic and can single-handedly win the game for me. Say what you want about the competition, the man won 2 Ballon D'Ors and finished runner up once, all in the space of three years. Plus the amount of penalties he had won after his trademark runs, and his surprising aerial prowess — he was one of those Seeler/Passarella-esque midgets with monstrous leap and positioning.
Bench: Gianluigi Donnarumma, Thomas Müller, Luigi Riva, Dani Carvajal
Midfield
Probably the most crucial task is to find the right balance in midfield. In many games your 2 central midfielders would be outnumbered, so they both need to be outstanding defensively and physically (see Rijkaard-Ancelotti, Keane-Scholes, Schweinsteiger-Martinez), while at the same time possessing enough skill to contribute in attack, both in terms of playmaking and goalscoring.
In Valery Voronin I have the outstanding defensive presence combined with sublime technique and spatial awareness (thanks to Joga’s PR machine I no longer sound like a biased lunatic). And I’m being honest here in saying that I won’t trade him for anyone else in the pool — not that Redondo or Varela are worse, but with fine margins I’m going with the personal favorite. Partnering him, is the colossal figure of Bryan Robson. He isn’t usually mentioned alongside the very best in history, but in his career he often faced absolutely astonishing opposition (Maradona, Platini, Laudrup, Gullit, Rijkaard, Schuster, Tigana and such), and not once was he outclassed by those players, despite usually playing for a lesser side (be it England or United of 80’s) — and even outplaying them on some memorable occasions, like Maradona in 1984 or Laudrup in 1991. An all-rounded midfield powerhouse, with countless energy, great technique, anticipation and positional awareness but, above all, unrivaled winning mentality and leadership.
Not much is there to say about my wingers, just the tactical perspective maybe. I always prefer slightly lop-sided formations, and the blueprint here is Fergie-esque classic 4-4-2 with Giggs and Beckham and Bayern’s Robbery partnership. Creative, almost playmaker-ish wide midfielder on the right in Luis Figo (more akin to Beckham than to Ribery, but with added world-class dribbling ability), and the incisive runner on the other side, like Robben for Bayern or Ryan Giggs himself for United.
Bonus
Ryan Giggs on Bryan Robson's influence:
"This Sheffield United right back was kicking me in one game, giving me a few verbals and it affected me a little bit. I said to Robbo: "That right back's just said he's going to break my legs". Robbo said: "Did he? You come and play center midfield. I'm going to play left wing for 10 minutes". We swapped positions. Robbo soon came back: "Aye, you're all right now, go back over". Problem solved! I had this mentality that if Robson was playing, we'd never lose. We usually won. He had that authority. He'd tell me when I was not passing enough or dribbling too much. Him and Brucey were brilliant for me".
Defence
Nothing complicated. Nilton Santos excelled in Brazil's 4-2-4 and won 2 World Cups as a crucial part of it. He also has a history with his today's opponent, Kurt Hamrin, having previously subduing him in 1958 World Cup final. With Maldini being blocked, there is literally no better alternative for Nilton here. Paul McGrath is considered by many as the greatest defender in Ireland's and Manchester United's history, defensively he was flawless and his ball-playing skills were quite impressive for a center back. Partnering him is Roberto Ayala, the linchpin of incredible Valencia's side of 00's. In the words of his fellow colleague, Rio Ferdinand (who included him in his Champions league dream XI: "He was phenomenal, outstanding. He was 5’10 but could jump like he was 7’3. He was a typical Argentinian player: strong, resolute, aggressive, quick – all the attributes you need to be a top defender". Manfred Kaltz was a key player for Hamburg and West Germany, and his crossing from a right back position is unrivaled in history — here he joins Kevin Keegan, with whom he formed almost a telepathic understanding in the late 70's (check out Kaltz' video below).
Attack
Kevin Keegan will prove to be a vital influence here. At his peak he finished runner up and won 2 Balon d'Or in 3 years. He was THE driving force for Liverpool and won 3 league trophies (runners-up twice) , 2 Uefa Cups, an European Cup and a FA cup (runners-up once) in his 6 year stay. Keegan then led minnows Hamburg to their first title in 19 years and in the next year led them to a second placed finish behind Bayern and an European Cup final. He was a big game player and has scored in countless finals. He even had Berti Vogts (the same guy who marked Cruyff out of a WC final and dealt with the likes of Gerd Muller) tasked with man marking him in an European Cup final. This talisman will prove to be a pest in my team with his superb all-round game and incessant running. In Diego Forlán he'll find a worthy partner — the Uruguayan's work rate and creativity and prolific goalscoring (bar the United spell, of course) made him a perfect foil for the likes of Agüero and Suarez.
Probably the most crucial task is to find the right balance in midfield. In many games your 2 central midfielders would be outnumbered, so they both need to be outstanding defensively and physically (see Rijkaard-Ancelotti, Keane-Scholes, Schweinsteiger-Martinez), while at the same time possessing enough skill to contribute in attack, both in terms of playmaking and goalscoring.
In Valery Voronin I have the outstanding defensive presence combined with sublime technique and spatial awareness (thanks to Joga’s PR machine I no longer sound like a biased lunatic). And I’m being honest here in saying that I won’t trade him for anyone else in the pool — not that Redondo or Varela are worse, but with fine margins I’m going with the personal favorite. Partnering him, is the colossal figure of Bryan Robson. He isn’t usually mentioned alongside the very best in history, but in his career he often faced absolutely astonishing opposition (Maradona, Platini, Laudrup, Gullit, Rijkaard, Schuster, Tigana and such), and not once was he outclassed by those players, despite usually playing for a lesser side (be it England or United of 80’s) — and even outplaying them on some memorable occasions, like Maradona in 1984 or Laudrup in 1991. An all-rounded midfield powerhouse, with countless energy, great technique, anticipation and positional awareness but, above all, unrivaled winning mentality and leadership.
Not much is there to say about my wingers, just the tactical perspective maybe. I always prefer slightly lop-sided formations, and the blueprint here is Fergie-esque classic 4-4-2 with Giggs and Beckham and Bayern’s Robbery partnership. Creative, almost playmaker-ish wide midfielder on the right in Luis Figo (more akin to Beckham than to Ribery, but with added world-class dribbling ability), and the incisive runner on the other side, like Robben for Bayern or Ryan Giggs himself for United.
Bonus
Ryan Giggs on Bryan Robson's influence:
"This Sheffield United right back was kicking me in one game, giving me a few verbals and it affected me a little bit. I said to Robbo: "That right back's just said he's going to break my legs". Robbo said: "Did he? You come and play center midfield. I'm going to play left wing for 10 minutes". We swapped positions. Robbo soon came back: "Aye, you're all right now, go back over". Problem solved! I had this mentality that if Robson was playing, we'd never lose. We usually won. He had that authority. He'd tell me when I was not passing enough or dribbling too much. Him and Brucey were brilliant for me".
Defence
Nothing complicated. Nilton Santos excelled in Brazil's 4-2-4 and won 2 World Cups as a crucial part of it. He also has a history with his today's opponent, Kurt Hamrin, having previously subduing him in 1958 World Cup final. With Maldini being blocked, there is literally no better alternative for Nilton here. Paul McGrath is considered by many as the greatest defender in Ireland's and Manchester United's history, defensively he was flawless and his ball-playing skills were quite impressive for a center back. Partnering him is Roberto Ayala, the linchpin of incredible Valencia's side of 00's. In the words of his fellow colleague, Rio Ferdinand (who included him in his Champions league dream XI: "He was phenomenal, outstanding. He was 5’10 but could jump like he was 7’3. He was a typical Argentinian player: strong, resolute, aggressive, quick – all the attributes you need to be a top defender". Manfred Kaltz was a key player for Hamburg and West Germany, and his crossing from a right back position is unrivaled in history — here he joins Kevin Keegan, with whom he formed almost a telepathic understanding in the late 70's (check out Kaltz' video below).
Attack
Kevin Keegan will prove to be a vital influence here. At his peak he finished runner up and won 2 Balon d'Or in 3 years. He was THE driving force for Liverpool and won 3 league trophies (runners-up twice) , 2 Uefa Cups, an European Cup and a FA cup (runners-up once) in his 6 year stay. Keegan then led minnows Hamburg to their first title in 19 years and in the next year led them to a second placed finish behind Bayern and an European Cup final. He was a big game player and has scored in countless finals. He even had Berti Vogts (the same guy who marked Cruyff out of a WC final and dealt with the likes of Gerd Muller) tasked with man marking him in an European Cup final. This talisman will prove to be a pest in my team with his superb all-round game and incessant running. In Diego Forlán he'll find a worthy partner — the Uruguayan's work rate and creativity and prolific goalscoring (bar the United spell, of course) made him a perfect foil for the likes of Agüero and Suarez.
Tactical notes
From the tactical perspective, the game is pretty simple — 4-4-2 vs 4-4-1-1, so it'll be mostly decided in individual battles.
- Young Ryan Giggs against Dani Alves. A lot can be said on the topic of general underrating of Alves' defensive ability, but the pace and trickery of young Giggs will certainly put him in trouble. Giggs tore apart world's best defenses — Juventus, Arsenal, you name it, and a few things in football can match the excitement produced by Giggs' dribbling on full speed.
- Nilton Santos against Kurt Hamrin. To quote the Guardian's obituary: "At the 1958 World Cup in Sweden, Brazil introduced the four-in-line defence to the game, which Santos found ideal. Majestically, he strolled through the opening rounds – and scored a superb goal against Austria – but when it came to the final, in Solna, there were serious doubts over whether he could contain the rapid and elusive Swedish winger Kurt Hamrin, who had turned the German defence inside out in the semi-final in Gothenburg. In the event, it was no contest as both Nilton and Djalma Santos seized control. Nilton completely subdued Hamrin... ...Brazil eventually won 5-2"
- Luis Figo against Hans-Peter Briegel. I am a fan of Briegel, and his freakish athleticism fits his fullback role perfectly, but you can't deny that he overly relied on it, sometimes losing his feet against a more skillful opponent. Briegel conceded the penalty in 1982 World Cup final by fouling Bruno Conti and his hesitation allowed Burruchaga to stay onside and score the winning goal for Argentina in 1986 World Cup final
- Not a direct individual battle, but the difference in class between the keepers should be mentioned — I don't think that anyone would argue with the fact that Toldo is simply better (and a more proven match winner) than Diego Lopez
Video footage
- scoring a hat-trick against the current champions, Barcelona, to secure his first Pichichi (outperforming the runner up — Samuel Eto'O — in the process)
- scoring 2 against 2008/09 Barcelona, arguably the greatest club side ever, and showcasing his abilities to dovetail with a free-roaming second striker
- Golden Ball and top scorer of 2010 World Cup - including goals against Netherlands and Germany
He was very capable of those towering one-man defensive performances at the highest stage, no matter the opposition. Make sure not to miss out on Paul McGrath's appreciation thread: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/classic-players-paul-mcgrath.430204/#post-21107204
Robson's own favorite performance (yes, even ahead 1984 Barca, although objectively he played better that day) — the first European final for English club after the infamous ban. 34 years old Robson lead 6th placed United against Cruyff's Dream Team with Laudrup and Koeman. Needless to say, he was magnificent, an absolute must see for every United fan out there.
Just to remind everyone, as much as myself, what a player Ryan Giggs was in the late 90's. This is a crucial game against Juventus — a side that finished runners up in the last CL campaign and will go all the way to the final this year. Incredible game and performance by Giggs — and also you'll notice an interesting role that Fergie gavee him in the first half (in the second half he played as a more orthodox left winger)
You'll also see that Kevin Keegan, Hamburg's number 7, is a frequent target of his bananenflankes (as well as winning the penalty for Kaltz's first goal, for example) — those two had some serious chemistry
Team NM:
Line Up:
GK: Diego Lopez – Solid goalkeeper, a staple for Villarreal in the past. Came through the Real Madrid youth ranks and represented them for a season too.
RB: Dani Alves – Doesn’t need an intro. One of the best (imo) modern right backs.
CB: Fabio Cannavaro – One of only 3 defenders (along with the Kaizer and Sammer) to win the Ballon D’or. We know how good he is.
CB: Karlheinz Forster – Regarded as one of the top markers in the world at his peak. European cup winner too.
LB: Hans-Peter Briegel Great defender, who had a great cross and was even good in the air. Could play anywhere across the line and in defensive midfield. However his natural position was LB. One of the best fullbacks of the 80s.
CM: Roy Keane – We are on a United forum. Nothing further to be said.
CM: Duncan Edwards – See above. I can add quotes and stories for those who need them, but again, everybody on here should know who he is and how great he was.
AM: Teofilo Cubillas – Arguably the greatest Peruvian player ever.A powerful AM who could shoot, pass and beat a man. Peru’s top scorer, and scored 5 goals in 2 world cups – something only two others can match. He will conduct the attack. Was named in the all south American team of the last 50 years in 2008.
RW: Kurt Hamrin – Still the 8th highest goal scorer in Serie A. Incredibly quick and a great dribbler, with an eye for goal.
LW: Franck Ribery – One of the best wingers of the past 10 years. He prefers to play on the left, and I probably top 5 (or better) in that position in the past 10 years
ST: John Charles – Il Gigante Buono – The gentle giant. In Juventus’ own words (via their website): Devastating is the adjective that springs to mind when you recall the power of Welsh international John Charles. Charles was the greatest - and not only in terms of stature - center forward in Juventus history. He was one of the only world class players to be world class in two completely different positions. Center forward and center back. He would have scored even more goals, (but from what I hear and read, he used to move to CB after Juve went ahead).
Tactics:
Defense: Cannavaro and Forster are greats in their position. I have the better center backs IMO. I’d love to see the Giggs vs Alves battle – IMO Alves is well equipped to contain him. Briegel is also a tough task for Figo. I think my full backs and center backs are well equipped to handle his attack. Keegan and Forlan/Mueller are imo not the all time greats that are needed to take on Cannavaro and Forster
Midfield: Edwards and Keane in the box to box role, and Cubillas up ahead. I think we will overrun them in the middle. Add the power of Cubillas to that midfield, and I think we will run it. The opposing midfield has a lot of toughness, but quite honestly, mine has both the hardness and the skill. Keane, Edwards and Cubillas is simply better simply better than Voronin and Robson due to the man advantage, even if Keegan or Forlan drop a bit deep. This is where I’ll win the game.
Attack: An old fashioned CF, two great wingers and midfielders who will run into the box is my ideal attack – and that’s what I have here. Cubillas to pull the strings, while Ribery and Hamrin use wing-play. One in the box when the other has the ball etc. Charles will be the fulcrum. He can keep the ball or set others up, and will dominate in the air.
Why I’ll win:
- This is a United forum. I have Duncan Edwards and Roy Keane FFS
- I’ll control the midfield
- My center backs are great – it’s one of the better pairings to keep his attack at bay
- My attack is deceptive – Juve’s best forward, Serie A’s 7th highest scorer, and a modern wing great. They are supported by one of the greatest AMs of all time and Scholes in midfield. As a group, they will function brilliantly.
