Reality-Monopoly Draft - R1: harms vs Ecstatic

With players at peak, who will win this match?


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Edgar Allan Pillow

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............................. TEAM HARMS .............................................................................. TEAM ECSTATIC ........................................

Team harms

Building a perfect 4-4-2 is a must for every drafter. The supposed simplicity of that formation highlights every little imperfection, and it becomes an incredibly entertaining challenge to get rid of all of them.

Francesco Toldo - Complete GK: pretty much the perfect modern goalkeeper, consistent with cat-like reflexes, also great with his feet due to playing outfield during the youth
Antonio Cabrini - Balanced FB: his role in Italy/Juve's back 4 is resembles the one of today's balanced fullback, impressive attacking contribution without any defensive weaknesses
Rafa Márquez - Ball-playing CB: elegant on the ball and fearless in tackles, Rafa's time in Barcelona saw him becoming one of the best center backs in the world. His intelligence and leadership makes him invaluable to this side.
Roberto Ayala - Stopper CB: "he was phenomenal — strong, resolute, aggressive, quick, all the attributes you need to be a top defender", - Rio explained his inclusion in his Champions League XI.
Dani Carvajal - Balanced FB: he has been the best right back in the world for quite some time now, leading post Alves/Lahm generation. Definitely the most complete one.
Ryan Giggs - Rampaging LW: we all remember young Giggs - incredible pace and dribbling ability, one of those players that kept you on the edge of your seat
Bryan Robson - Attacking B2B: one of the most complete midfielders of his time, he combined great technique and goalscoring with tactical intelligence and never-say-die attitude on and off the pitch. Captain.
Valery Voronin - Defensive midfielder: a player who was capable both of man-marking the likes of Eusebio and Albert out of the game, and orchestrating the play for USSR and Torpedo. Don't hesitate to ask more about him
Luis Figo - Playmaking RW: less incisive, more creative, Figo occupies his preferred right wing in a role that saw him winning Ballon D'Or and WPOTY when the likes of Ronaldo, Zidane were around.
Luigi Riva - Target striker: Italy's all-time top scorer, a battering ram with added dribbling and creativity. Make sure to check out the compilations I've made of his games that will be posted at the bottom.
Thomas Müller - Raumdeuter: Football Manager made a specific role only for him, Raumdeuter, the interpretor of space. Second striker with the freedom to move around as he wants, his workrate and off the ball movement is key for my team — again, check his video at the bottom.

Bench: Gianluigi Donnarumma, Kevin Keegan, Manfred Kaltz

Midfield

Probably the most crucial task is to find the right balance in midfield. In many games your 2 central midfielders would be outnumbered, so they both need to be outstanding defensively and physically (see Rijkaard-Ancelotti, Keane-Scholes, Schweinsteiger-Martinez), while at the same time possessing enough skill to contribute in attack, both in terms of playmaking and goalscoring.

In Valery Voronin I have the outstanding defensive presence combined with sublime technique and spatial awareness (thanks to Joga’s PR machine I no longer sound like a biased lunatic). And I’m being honest here in saying that I won’t trade him for anyone else in the pool — not that Redondo or Varela are worse, but with fine margins I’m going with the personal favorite. Partnering him, is the colossal figure of Bryan Robson. He isn’t usually mentioned alongside the very best in history, but in his career he often faced absolutely astonishing opposition (Maradona, Platini, Laudrup, Gullit, Rijkaard, Schuster, Tigana and such), and not once was he outclassed by those players, despite usually playing for a lesser side (be it England or United of 80’s) — and even outplaying them on some memorable occasions, like Maradona in 1984 or Laudrup in 1991. An all-rounded midfield powerhouse, with countless energy, great technique, anticipation and positional awareness but, above all, unrivaled winning mentality and leadership.

Not much is there to say about my wingers, just the tactical perspective maybe. I always prefer slightly lop-sided formations, and the blueprint here is Fergie-esque classic 4-4-2 with Giggs and Beckham and Bayern’s Robbery partnership. Creative, almost playmaker-ish wide midfielder on the right in Luis Figo (more akin to Beckham than to Ribery, but with added world-class dribbling ability), and the incisive runner on the other side, like Robben for Bayern or Ryan Giggs himself for United.

Bonus: Ryan Giggs on Bryan Robson's influence

Defence

My defensive unit is also pretty straight-forward. Marquez/Ayala is the typical ball-playing/enforcer center back combo. Both are very complete and adaptable, Rafa Márquez especially thrived in Barcelona’s high line defence, and they will make a good proactive duo, that won’t be lost if the opponent forced them to defend deep in the box though. Roberto Ayala, in the words of Rio Ferdinand: "He was phenomenal, outstanding. He was 5’10 but could jump like he was 7’3. He was a typical Argentinian player: strong, resolute, aggressive, quick – all the attributes you need to be a top defender". You can’t ask for more experience either — they have 258 caps combined, being the undisputed leaders of their respective defensive units. Antonio Cabrini and Dani Carvajal will play as a pair of modern fullbacks, both aren’t gung ho wing backs, even though they are known for their attacking contribution, and will adapt their roles depending on the situation. Carvajal especially is the master of it, playing with Marcelo on the other side of the pitch. Pretty happy with Carvajal’s assigned pick by the way, it’s not a coincidence that the guy won 3 CL titles in his 4 seasons at Madrid, gradually earning the status of the best right back in the world. Behind them I have the great Francesco Toldo, who managed to get in Euro 2000 Team of the tournament despite competing with Buffon himself for the place in the national team.

Attack

My attack is spearheaded by Luigi Riva. In the age when old records are being beaten right and left he still holds the title of Italy’s all-time goalscorer. He combined physical strength and fantastic aerial game with immaculate touch and great dribbling, something that he learned while playing as a winger when he was a young player. Legendary player for his nation, he also lead his team to the unlikely title win in 1970 — up to this point Cagliari remains the only non-continental Italian club to win Serie A. I’ve made two match game compilations from the 1970 World Cup, you will see him destroying a more than decent Mexican side in the QF and shining against the favorites, West Germany, in what would later be known as «the game of the century», especially showcasing his hold up play and aerial prowess in the second half, pretty much on his own battling with the whole German back four, with the rest of Italian team sitting deep and soaking pressure.

Partnering him is Thomas Müller, the great raumdeuter. With Riva being the focal point of the attack, a one-man towering presence straight from the catenaccio, and the variety of service from all over the pitch, Müller will thrive, interpreting the space like he knows and loves. It also helps that he has a pedigree of overcoming 4-3-3 (with Xavi and Iniesta, no less), in 4-4-2, where his midfield contribution and constant movement was absolutely crucial.
Tactical notes

I don’t want to write another essay since pretty much everything that I want to implement has been written before: http://spielverlagerung.com/2013/04/27/bayern-munich-fc-barcelona-in-depth/

Now of course Ecstatic’s team and Barca have lots of differences (Varela as a DM and Sheva instead of Messi change their game significantly), but most of what’s mentioned there can be applied to our game as well. There aren’t any glaring weaknesses in his team and I don’t expect any tactical misfits, the only potential issue is philosophical differences between Xavi/Laudrup/Krol/Reiziger and Varela/Godin — it makes sense to play possession-based football with high defensive line to make the best of the first group, while both Uruguayans excelled in completely opposite systems.

That being said, the weakest points of Ecstatic’s team are still his fullbacks - and I have both a system and personnel to exploit it. Reiziger and Dunne aren’t bad players, but to negate prime Giggs and Figo with the support of Cabrini and Carvajal is an impossible task even for Maldini or Djalma. If he starts with Krol on the left and Lucio centrally, the criticism of his left back won’t be as relevant, although I would bet on Müller getting the best of his central pairing in that case.

TEAM ECSTATIC

"When Michael plays like a dream, a magic illusion, determined to show his new team his extreme abilities, no one in the world comes anywhere near his level." - Johan Cruyff After Real Madrid with Laudrup had won 5–0 over Cruyff's Barcelona

1. The Dynamo Kyiv Excellence - Efficiency, Versatility and Professionalism

CF -Shevchenko - Ballon d'Or 2004 - Required Complete CF to exploit the creative environment to the full - 392 goals/815 games

One of the greatest Eastern European footballers: fast, hardworking, energetic, opportunistic and prolific goalscorer (both foot, head). Excellent positional sense and link-up play with diverse players (Kaka, Crespo, Rebrov..).

Left Wing-Forward - Blokhin- Ballon d'Or 1975 - Hybrid player comfortable on the wing and in the penalty area - 325 goals/763 games
All-time top goalscorer in the history of the Soviet League, Dynamo Kyiv and the Soviet Union national team. The political regime made a move abroad impossible. Exceptional pace and work-rate

2. The Barcelona Playmakers in a collective spirit - Intelligent Masters in the art of the short/long (im)possible pass that break defensive lines

LCM- Laudrup - The Artist who is still admired by fans of Barcelona, Real Madrid, Ajax, Juve... - 201 goals in 718 games

Beckenbauer: "Pelé was the best in the 60s, Cruyff in the 70s, Maradona in the 80s and Laudrup in the 90s."
Romário: "The best player I have ever played with and the 4th best in the history of the game."
Raúl: "The best I have ever played with."
Iniesta: "Who is the best player in history? Laudrup."
Zamorano: "A genius! …The reason why I make so many goals is Laudrup."
Platini: "Michael had everything except for one thing: he wasn't selfish enough."
Cruyff "Had Michael been born in a poor ghetto in Brazil or Argentina with the ball being his only way out of poverty he would today be recognised as the biggest genius of the game ever. He had all the abilities to reach it but lacked this ghetto-instinct, which could have driven him there.
Platini: "One of the biggest talents ever. The best in the world on the training pitch, but never used his talent to its fullest during matches."
Roberto Galia: "I have played against Maradona, Platini and Baggio. But the player I saw do the most indescribable things was Michael Laudrup.
RCM - Xavi - Conductor in charge of setting the tempo of play and enlightening the Game
One of the most valuable players in history of Spanish football. Certainly the best midfielder in the World in the very late 2000s to the beginning 2010s. Key role in the Golden Era of Barcelona and Spain.

3. The Brazilian players who combine strength and technical skills.

Quick & Powerful Right-Winger - Jairzinho - Legendary player of Brazil 1970 - 33 goals in 81 games with Brazil

"The Hurricane" won the 1970 FIFA World Cup, during which he scored in every game Brazil played. In doing so, he became one of only two players in the history of the World Cup to have scored in every game of the tournament. Listed at number 27 in World Soccer Magazine's list of the 100 greatest players of the 20th century, He replaced his footballing idol Garrincha in both the Botafogo and Brazil teams, and played in three consecutive World Cups: 1966, 1970 and 1974

Sweeper - Lucio - Tenacious and physically strong defender with good technical skills and excellent distribution
Known for his heavy marking of opponents, his hard-tackling style of play but also for his galloping runs on the ball, which have earned him the nickname O Cavalo ("The Horse", in Portuguese).

4. The (Uruguyan) Sense of sacrifice: the other facet of South-American Football

Defensive Midfielder -Varela - You know he played a key role in the successes of Uruguay and Atletico Madrid
“The Black Chief” Obdulio Varela was the greatest defensive midfielder in the World in the 1940s, one of the Greatest Uruguayan legends. Remembered for his impact at the 1950 FIFA World Cup final Urugay won.

Stopper -Godin - Key player in the successes of Uruguay and Atletico Madrid

5. The FBs who were part of the AJAX team that ruled Europe in the 70s and 90s

Total Football Defender - Krol - greatest defender in the history of Dutch football
2 Times European Defender of The Year (1978, 1979) & FIFA World Cup All-Star Team (1974, 1978), 3 times European Cup winners, 2 times WC runner-up...

RB -Reiziger - Strong, fast and reliable player - 72 caps with Netherlands and 7 years spent with FC Barcelona
 

harms

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A few bits that are missing due to formatting issues. Giggs' words about Robson:



Video footage


I've made some compilations for this draft, some of them to shine the light on lesser known players like Riva, some to highlight player's tactical role in this game or to remind you of their classic performances:

Luigi Riva against Mexico in 1970 World Cup quarter-final. Don't let the final score fool you - it was a very close game that was pretty much decided by Riva's individual genius.

Luigi Riva against West Germany in 1970 World Cup semi-final. This game is now known as the "Game of the Century". Riva had a tough competition — Müller and Seeler to outshine, Vogts, Beckenbauer, Schulz and Schnellinger to outwit in order to win this game for Italy — and he did stood out. His performance in the second half is sublime, Italy sat back to defend their lead and he was pretty much on his own against 4 all-time great German defenders, holding up the ball and providing the focal point for Italy's long balls forward. Scored the best goal of the game too.

Bryan Robson's own favorite performance (yes, even ahead 1984 Barca, although objectively he played better that day) — the first European final for English club after the infamous ban. 34 years old Robson lead 6th placed United against Cruyff's Dream Team with Laudrup and Koeman. Needless to say, he was magnificent, an absolute must see for every United fan out there.

Just to remind everyone, as much as myself, what a player Ryan Giggs was in the late 90's. This is a crucial game against Juventus — a side that finished runners up in the last CL campaign and will go all the way to the final this year. Incredible game and performance by Giggs — and also you'll notice an interesting role that Fergie gavee him in the first half (in the second half he played as a more orthodox left winger)

Thomas Müller — this is not my compilation, and it lacks some focus on Müller's off the ball movement (his strongest attribute), yet it shows him in the exact same role that he features today, plus the Xavi link makes this comparison even more relevant.
 

harms

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Joga's posts from International draft highlighting Voronin - for those who don't follow these drafts obsessively. That's all with the additional info spam


It's very rare to see a player play a deep playmaking role, using his tactical nous and positioning and covering ability to great effect in one match, and then go on to deliver an immense man-marking display completely nullifying one of the tournament's in-form players in Florian Albert, (well it was the other way around but I made that semi-final performance video first, so let's stick with that narrative) but that was precisely what Valery Voronin was capable of - a two way player with potent creative faculties and a formidable destructive streak.


Just finished man-marking one of the players of the tournaments in Florian Albert and playing against the likes of Beckenbauer-Overath-Seeler-Haller? Well up you go against freaking Eusebio, in his 1966 WC form, next then.



(Video quality at the start is poor but I just used those excerpts for the English commentary by Wolstenholme, iirc.



The actual compilation quality is much better, so stick with it.)

We've seen man-marking displays from the likes of Bergomi, Gentile, Stiles and other more 'rugged' players but it's hard to think of more pure and 'clean' man-marking displays than those displayed by Voronin against Albert and Eusebio. Quite something, being the most creative talisman of your side and also simultaneously being the most formidable man-marking presence. If one really wants to appreciate those displays, it'd be better if they watch those matches in full as there were a lot of positional plays (putting pressure in the right areas, preventing Albert/Eusebio from turning and forcing them into simple back passes etc) that I couldn't put inside the video. Far too often we've had the debate about who'd be the ideal holding midfielder (not named Rijkaard) who would be ideally suited to upgrade Busquets in the tiki-taka system or any other system which demands a ball-playing yet defensive resolute and positionally disciplined DM, Voronin has to be amongst the top of the pile imo


Naturally, Voronin would end up being voted into the Best XI of the 1966 WC by the Associated Press (strangely not in the official TOTM, although he made it in the 1962 WC)

Banks; D. Santos, Schulz, Moore, Marzolini; Beckenbauer, Charlton, Voronin; Bene, Eusebio, Simoes

whilst the British pundit team with Don Revie and Billy Wright had this as all star team for this WC:

Banks; Sanchis, Schulz, Moore, Marzolini; Beckenbauer, Charlton; Voronin, Bene, Pelé, Eusebio

A referendum organized by L'Equipe and France Football regarding the best player of the tournament gave the following result:

1- Bobby Charlton ----- 17 votes
2- Franz Beckenbauer - 8 votes
3- Eusébio -------------- 7 votes
4- Valery Voronin ----- 4 votes


 
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harms

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Good luck, @Ecstatic. Brilliant team, I won't be bitter if I'll lose, and I honestly don't know who I would've voted for if I wasn't one of the managers. Voted for myself to see the score.

I see that you went with Krol on the left, so the way I see it, my most potent route to goals would be:
  • Giggs and Cabrini doubling up on Reiziger — Jairzinho was many things, but a hardworking winger he wasn't;
  • Thomas Müller trying to find space, Krol would've been the best fit to negate him, but here, especially with Lucio, I can see him finding the space and deciding the game for me
 

Ecstatic

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Good luck, @Ecstatic. Brilliant team, I won't be bitter if I'll lose, and I honestly don't know who I would've voted for if I wasn't one of the managers. Voted for myself to see the score.

I see that you went with Krol on the left, so the way I see it, my most potent route to goals would be:
  • Giggs and Cabrini doubling up on Reiziger — Jairzinho was many things, but a hardworking winger he wasn't;
  • Thomas Müller trying to find space, Krol would've been the best fit to negate him, but here, especially with Lucio, I can see him finding the space and deciding the game for me
I can't be bitter if I lose against you, especially because I know you spend a lot of time and energy to prepare videos and participate in the discussions. Good job for the videos about Riva, Giggs, Voronin & co.
 
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oneniltothearsenal

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Good grief this is a touch matchup. One those I could see going either way. Have to let this one simmer a bit more while I work
 

harms

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Thanks. To my shame I've never heard of him
By the way - in the game of fine margins, keeper's level should be also taken into account (more so than usually, at least). Why Bailey and Toldo had similar problems with national teams (insane competition, for Bailey it was Shilton and Clemence, for Toldo - peak Buffon, Peruzzi, Pagluica), I don't think that it will be too much to say that Toldo is, well, better.

He got in Euro TotT, with Italy ending as a runner up, with insane semi-final performance against Netherlands, he won Serie A keeper of the year (ahead of Buffon) once and finished behind Buffon 4 other times, even got in ESM Team of the year ahead of Kahn and (again) Buffon. Bailey was solid, but nothing close to Toldo
 

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Imagine the interplay between Laudrup and Xavi, then at the right time they release the ball to the lightning quick and technical wingers. What you gonna do?
 

Šjor Bepo

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love harms 442 attempt, pretty damn good in every department bar CB.....dont really like Rafa as a CB in back 4, specially not in 442 + i never saw Ayala as a stopper so both of them are heavily leaning towards sweeper type which i dont like.

Downcast team looks solid as well, not sure if Sheva is the best fit for this team though, same goes for Varela but that i will admit is just a random guess. Maybe @antohan can help with this one but i always imagined Varela as a pure destroyer. Lucio i never really liked but Godin is the type of player that makes everyone look great so that should work. Harms made a valid point for Godin though, this would be a completely different ball game for him so there are question marks there as well.....
 
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ECSTATIC - PLEASE OPEN THE SPOILER & WATCH THE STYLISH DANISH GENIUS TO IMAGINE THE TEAM'S STYLE OF PLAY :drool:


Oh my sweet Lord, I'm ashamed to say I'd forgotten how good Laudrup was....

2-footed, made close marking look no problem and beautiful slide-ruled passes.... all at pace too?

Fitting that Cruyff (who was all of those things too) made that quote about him.
 

harms

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I don't know if there is really a gap between these 2 GK.

I picked him because he is a United Quality GK, the idol of Schmeichel :)
Well, one was the best (ESM TotT and all)/one of the best goalkeepers in the world at some point, competing with Buffon and Kahn, the second was similar to Schmeichel in posture and hair color... I'm failing to see on which arguments is your suggestion based
 

harms

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Imagine the interplay between Laudrup and Xavi, then at the right time they release the ball to the lightning quick and technical wingers. What you gonna do?
Pretty much what Bayern did against Xavi and Iniesta, for example.
 

Šjor Bepo

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Pretty much what Bayern did against Xavi and Iniesta, for example.
Xavi was past his peak though, Iniesta probably as well....

You are right about goalkeepers though, dont think anyone will deny that Toldo was a better keeper.
 

harms

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Highlights battle? :rolleyes:

Ryan Giggs and Antonio Cabrini against Reiziger (without much help from Jairzinho)

Luis Figo :drool:
 

harms

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Xavi was past his peak though, Iniesta probably as well....
Old debate - yes, no one rivaled Barcelona's midfield at their peak but there weren't many world class midfields at that time, certainly not of Robson/Voronin calibre. Voronin is a massive upgrade on Martinez as well, while Robson-Schweinsteiger is a tough one to decide, plus there is help from Figo/Giggs/Müller.

How high do you rate carré magique? I wouldn't put them far behind Barca's trio — and this is Bryan Robson, in midfield duo with Glen Hoddle (:lol:), fighting Platini and co single-handedly


Sorry for the amount of videos, I clearly went over the top
 

Šjor Bepo

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@harms agree with you, your team has as big of a chance as a 2 man midfield can have against Xavi in a 3 man midfield...what makes your team special is that even your strikers are hard working feckers, segment of their game that is often underappreciated IMO
 

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Downcast team looks solid as well, not sure if Sheva is the best fit for this team though, same goes for Varela but that i will admit is just a random guess. Maybe @antohan can help with this one but i always imagined Varela as a pure destroyer.
Pure destroyer isn't right, no, it would be like calling Keano a pure destroyer (remarkable as he was at that job).

He had very decent passing and a brilliant football brain. I wrote about this during the chain draft, how fantastic him and Schiaffino were playing together as they both controlled games completely (albeit in different ways). Wonderful cannon in his right peg too.

Can't think of modern players quite like him. Tito Gonçalves had similar traits (thus his heir) but I'd argue Tito was a more accomplished playmaker while Varela was better at controlling the defensive side of the game.

He is definitely no Busquets, but I doubt that's what is being asked of him.
 

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Highlights battle? :rolleyes:

Ryan Giggs and Antonio Cabrini against Reiziger (without much help from Jairzinho)
1. It's a random guess about him. It's part of the game in the discussions.
2. You want to ignore he is part of a front 3 and my central midfield is comprised of 3 players against 2 for your team
3. Cabrini will have a lot of work to limit the impact of one of the greatest right-winger in the History of the Game.
4. Giggs is not really the player who needs a FB to attack: he is relatively straight-forward in his approach
 

Ecstatic

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@harms agree with you, your team has as big of a chance as a 2 man midfield can have against Xavi in a 3 man midfield...what makes your team special is that even your strikers are hard working feckers, segment of their game that is often underappreciated IMO
Yes, Muller & Riva are hard-working players but I have 3 remarks:

1. What about their supposedly complimentary?
2. In a 4-4-2 system, the support striker (Thomas Muller) has to be very creative and have an hybrid role: part-time #10 and part-time striker. He could the job but I know he was probably a default choice. Sorry if I'm wrong but harms said his top priority during the draft was to pick Bergkamp.... but onenil picked him
3. Last but not least, I'm not sure Thomas Muller has credentials in a similar tactical system
 
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Ecstatic

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love harms 442 attempt, pretty damn good in every department bar CB.....dont really like Rafa as a CB in back 4, specially not in 442 + i never saw Ayala as a stopper so both of them are heavily leaning towards sweeper type which i dont like.

Downcast team looks solid as well, not sure if Sheva is the best fit for this team though, same goes for Varela but that i will admit is just a random guess. Maybe @antohan can help with this one but i always imagined Varela as a pure destroyer. Lucio i never really liked but Godin is the type of player that makes everyone look great so that should work. Harms made a valid point for Godin though, this would be a completely different ball game for him so there are question marks there as well.....
In your last last game,I was surprised to see a lot of negative comments about your player Makélélé: I guess they have considered him as "pure destroyer" who has nothing to do with technical players like Luis Suarez Miramontes ;)

Let's take the case of Makélélé with Real Madrid: he played a key role in the golden era of Del Bosque. When he left the club, the team lost his balance and struggled to deliver consistent performances on a weekly basis. Makélélé was more than a destroyer: he was capable to play with simplicity, accuracy and rapidity.




I don't expect Varela to run the show but:

1. to control the midfield
2. to protect the defence
3. to play with simplicity and rapidity

From what I've read about Varela, he had proper technical skills but his Uruguayan teammates were clearly better technically.

Pure destroyer isn't right, no, it would be like calling Keano a pure destroyer (remarkable as he was at that job).

He had very decent passing and a brilliant football brain. I wrote about this during the chain draft, how fantastic him and Schiaffino were playing together as they both controlled games completely (albeit in different ways). Wonderful cannon in his right peg too.

Can't think of modern players quite like him. Tito Gonçalves had similar traits (thus his heir) but I'd argue Tito was a more accomplished playmaker while Varela was better at controlling the defensive side of the game.
Thanks for your insights. What do think about this link and the map

https://www.imortaisdofutebol.com/2012/10/02/selecoes-imortais-uruguai-1950/




He is definitely no Busquets, but I doubt that's what is being asked of him.
Exactly.

By the way, I could have taken Busquets but it would have been boring to fully duplicate a team.
 

Ecstatic

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Old debate - yes, no one rivaled Barcelona's midfield at their peak but there weren't many world class midfields at that time, certainly not of Robson/Voronin calibre. Voronin is a massive upgrade on Martinez as well, while Robson-Schweinsteiger is a tough one to decide, plus there is help from Figo/Giggs/Müller.

How high do you rate carré magique? I wouldn't put them far behind Barca's trio — and this is Bryan Robson, in midfield duo with Glen Hoddle (:lol:), fighting Platini and co single-handedly


Sorry for the amount of videos, I clearly went over the top
OMG, you suggest players like Xavi are overrated :rolleyes:
 

Ecstatic

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I have nothing to add and I don't know if I could come back before the end of the game.

Good luck
@harms
 

harms

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This is a key part of the game for me. Your wingers vs @harms full-backs. I have a fair idea of Blokhin vs Carvajal but on the fence for Cabrini vs Jairzinho.
Why? Do you have doubts about Cabrini's defensive game? He was a key part for one of the best defensive units ever.
Here's full match compilation (the second part will be in the suggested video), Cabrini was absolutely amazing from the defensive point of view.
 
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harms

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OMG, you suggest players like Xavi are overrated :rolleyes:
Ehm, no? He is one of the best midfielders ever, probably the best if you're building a possession-based side.
But in fantasy drafts the quality of opposition is different than everything that real teams faced in real life. I think it was discussed quite a lot in Manager's draft when Gio/Theon had Matthaus and co facing recreated Barcelona's midfield, and one of the arguments for the latter was that they dominated every midfield they faced. Which isn't that relevant when we talk about an all-time fantasy draft.
 

harms

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3. Cabrini will have a lot of work to limit the impact of one of the greatest right-winger in the History of the Game.
4. Giggs is not really the player who needs a FB to attack: he is relatively straight-forward in his approach
  • yes, but like in any game, there a defensive and offensive phases. In offensive phases Cabrini will support Giggs and Jairzinho won't matter much
  • I guess the idea to revisit young Giggs' games wasn't that bad, if you think that he was a line-hugging winger that won't benefit from an overlapping fullback, you're simply wrong, not sure how familiar are you with United's 90's side, but even in the video that I made for this game it's fairly obvious

Yes, Muller & Riva are hard-working players but I have 3 remarks:

1. What about their supposedly complimentary?
2. In a 4-4-2 system, the support striker (Thomas Muller) has to be very creative and have an hybrid role: part-time #10 and part-time striker. He could the job but I know he was probably a default choice. Sorry if I'm wrong but harms said his top priority during the draft was to pick Bergkamp.... but onenil picked him
3. Last but not least, I'm not sure Thomas Muller has credentials in a similar tactical system
  • What about it? There is a battling ram in Riva, who excelled in playing with his back to the goal, linking up with different offensive players (there is some resemblance between Müller and Mazzola, actually, although the latter also had playmaking instincts) and single-handedly keeping busy the whole opponent's defensive unit, creating space for his partners. Space, Müller, should I really go on?
  • Bergkamp was not a top priority, I would've picked him early if he was, but on aesthetic level the idea of Riva and Bergkamp captivated me. In Robson, Figo, Voronin and Giggs I have enough playmakers to not depend on Müller for that
  • Ehm, what? Müller doesn't have credentials in 4-4-2? I've referenced this game many times, too much, probably, but for your ridiculous notion, I will repeat, 4:0


Take notice on who's taking the care of Xavi here. Müller not only contributed to midfield and limited Xavi, he also scored 2 goals.
 

harms

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Bump with 2 hours left, one way or another I don't want this game to go to penalties.

Key points.

Offensively:
  • Thomas Müller exploiting the space between the lines — which should be especially dangerous with Lucio here.
  • Ryan Giggs and Antonio Cabrini — incredible pair that is facing Reiziger, who won't get much help from Jairzinho or Xavi in the defensive phase (and Lucio covering for him will only make more space for Müller.
  • Bryan Robson and Valery Voronin — it's hard to find a more appropriate duo to negate Ecstatic's unquestionably amazing midfield. Robson especially was the master of matching opponent's level from an underdog position. I already posted his incredible performance against France's carre magique with Platini, Tigana, Giresse and Fernandez — Robson played in midfield 2 with Glen Hoddle (fantastic player but not much of a help in midfield battle); we've seen him outplaying Maradona himself with Bernd Schuster in 1984, or Michael Laudrup in 1991.
  • My strikers, both Riva and Müller, possess incredible workrate. Riva played in catenaccio, and you can see his performances in 1970 WC on the first page. Pressing, tackling, tracking back. Müller - I think you all know about him yourself. Plus, Giggs and Figo are classic 4-4-2 choices, who will also participate in midfield battle
Defensively:
  • Carvajal is being singled out as a weakness against Blokhin, which is fair, I guess, but we shouldn't underrate him just because he is still playing. He won't be outpaced by him though, which is always the biggest worry for anyone facing the Ukranian. Plus it's not a coincidence that he won 3 CL titles in 4 years, playing as a more conservative right back with rampaging Marcelo on another flank

  • In this game of fine margins, it definitely helps that I have a world-class keeper in Toldo and Ecstatic has relatively underwhelming in comparison Bailey
 
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