Reality-Monopoly Draft - SF: 2mufc0 vs Tuppet

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

vs

...................................... TEAM 2MUFC0 ..................................................................................... TEAM TUPPET ......................................



TEAM 2MUFC0

Formation 4-3-3.

Defensively I have 2 of the best central defenders of all time in Thuram and Hansen,Hansen being the ball playing defender and Thuram the stopper, both would work well together. At right back is the great Brazilian Carlos Alberto, a fantastic all round full back, world class going forward and in defense. At left back I have brought in Ruud Krol one of the best Dutch defenders of all time. In goal is the ever reliable Petr Cech, capable of making consistent game winning saves.

In front of the defence i have Redondo, a GOAT defensive/deep lying midfielder able to control the game from deep and run the show, Sir Alex once described him 'like he had a magnet in his feet'. In front of him will be Davids and Kubala in box to box roles, these two will provide defensive solidity aswell as fantastic service for the front three. Davids will be the driving force in this midfield, while Kubala will be given more freedom to go forward to create and score, withe less emphasis on defensive duties.

Upfront will be Zlatan, who at the peak of his powers was the ultimate all round striker, quick, strong, great passer, skillful, fantastic in the air and a great goal scorer. He will be supported by Lato and Keizer who can come centrally and combine with him or go wide and the get the crosses into him. Zlatan would also combine well with Kubala and Davids with their runs into the box. I believe this system will get the best out of Zlatan and due to his skillset the perfect striker for this role.

I believe bringing Kubala brings that extra goal threat for me from midfield, he truly was a great player, scoring 131 goals in 186 games for Barcelona. Some More info on Kubala here: https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/laszlo-kubala-not-lionel-messi-barcelona-greatest-all-time

The Hungarian, with his imposing physique and unrivalled bursts of energy on the pitch, could have played in any position on the pitch and still made an impact on the end result. Kubala was a true two-footed forward, but that did not stop him from being equally efficient as a No. 6, No. 8 or even a No. 10 in the side.

Overall i have threats through the middle, the left hand side (Krol/Keizer), Keizer and Krol struck up a fantastic partnership down the left for Ajax and Holland, winning the European cup 3 times in a row and world cup runners up in 74 & 78. On the right is Alberto/Lato . Defensively, all of my defenders are GOAT level and have won the biggest prizes and the same applies to the midfield which has the personnel to take hold of the game and control it for most periods. On the wings are two great wingers which will be difficult to contain for even the best defenders.

TEAM TUPPET


We are still setup in a 4-3-3 and haven't changed much from the tactic of previous games. In the midfield, Vieira - Deschamps are a proven partnership. They provided the solid midfield platform for France to win Euro 2000. Vieira would play as box to box while Deschamps would be the intelligent and tireless water carrier, who would free Vieira and Hanegem to influence the attacking third.
Van Hanegem moves to the number 10 role which he played brilliantly for Feyenrood, making them the first Dutch club to win the European cup. He had many talismanic performances for his club over the years playing as number 10 and was often compared with Cruyff, winning 1971 Dutch footballer of the year award over him.

In attack our focus is still on wings, Finney & Matthews is another brilliant proven combination. Both of them would probably make the all time British XI. Both are capable of beating their fullback and whipping a cross. While 2mufc0 has two brilliant fullbacks, they are facing two of the greatest wingers/dribblers in Finney & Matthews supported by two very fine fullbacks in Camacho and Bezsonov. Finney would have a free role in attack, a truly two footed magnificent player, he would look to both cut in from the left side to score or provide a cross. Matthews would mostly be a playmaker from right wing. Both fullbacks would look to take turn for attacking and are encouraged to go forward.
In striker position we have the golden head Sandor Kocsis, probably the greatest header of all time. A brilliant all round striker his goalscoring record for his national team is phenomenal. With 75 goals scored in just 68 appearances Kocsis was a goal machine of the highest order and one of the best forward in the draft. With the service he receive from Finney/Matthews & van Hanegem its impossible to not see him score here.

In center defense Deasilly and Vidic form an uncompromising rugged duo, that would make life hard for any striker. Ibra is going to find very hard to show his physicality or Aerial ability against them.
Along with these two we have two brilliant full backs in Camacho & Bezsonov to counter the threat of Lato & Keizer. Both were known for their offensive contribution down the flanks, but could balance their attacking tendencies and technical play with defensive solidity. Camacho in particular was gritty, resolute, defensively watertight and a marker of the highest order. He is perfect to take out Lato. On the other end Bezsonov's pace and stamina would help against the threat of Keizer. Finally as the last line of defense I have one of the greatest goalkeeper of all time in Banks to rely upon.

On 2mufc0's team, its obviously filled with top notch talent everywhere. I am interested in seeing how he accommodate Ibra & Kubala together. They are both creative second strikers and it seem they would step into each other's toe quite a bit. I also think my attack is slightly better. On midfield it depends how 2mufc is planning to play, but if Kubala, Keizer, Lato & Ibra all are playing then we would most likely dominate the midfield as well.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@2mufc0 @Tuppet All the best!

 

[harms]

Huge credit to @2mufc0 — as the draft went I felt that @Tuppet would walk straight to the final without any real competition. Well, now he won't.
A very close encounter, will have to think about it.

edit: feck, forgot that I can't vote on this one.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Not really sure on advantages of Tuppet's midfield dynamics...Why not start the obvious

van Hanegem.....Vieira.....
............Deschamps.........

As I prefer vH in the creative left midfield role. Deschamps is perfect to spring them both open and enough workrate in B2B.

 

[MJJ]

Close game this, I feel both the teams are very close with tuppet having a slight edge in midfield balanced by mufc being better in defense and slightly in offense.

I am not that convinced with the desailly and vidic partnership, a more calm covering defender would have suited vidic better imo. I can see both of them wanting to follow Ibra when he drops deep which will open up room for kubala to bomb forward or Keizer to cut in.

Offensively I feel it's about equal or a very slight edge to tuppet due to having a better striker but kubala being better as an ss than van hanegam cancels that.

2-1 mufc for me.

Edit- also, Kocsis was 5 foot 9 and played in a system with four attackers. I am not sure how much of a help he will be hear aerially with thuram marking him in defense which negates a big part of the offensive strength for tuppet I.e. The crosses of his wingers.

 

[Tuppet]

Best of luck @2mufc0

As I mentioned in OP its a great team you got. Kubala's deep positioning in a box to box role is an issue for me. He was not really a midfielder atleast not at his peak role. He did not become top scorer of Barca, getting those goals from Midfield. He was a second striker, and plays almost exact same areas as Ibra. I think they would clash, also it makes your formation more or less a 4-2-4, the midfield 2 would have a very hard time to contend with my midfield 3.

 

[Tuppet]

Not really sure on advantages of Tuppet's midfield dynamics...Why not start the obvious

van Hanegem.....Vieira.....
............Deschamps.........

As I prefer vH in the creative left midfield role. Deschamps is perfect to spring them both open and enough workrate in B2B.

The reason is that I wanted VH in his very best number 10 role here, to support Kocsis better. this midfield is very similar to France Euro 2000 winning midfield of -
-------- Zidane--------
--Deschamps--Vieira--

Also Vieira is in a B2B role, I have mentioned it in my writeup, his positioning is deeper as I suspected 2mufc would play a 4-2-4 and we would need more defensive support from my midfield.

 

[2mufc0]

Thanks @Tuppet , always going to be a tough game as you have a very good team too.

Imo the key to stopping your team will be cutting the supply off to Kocsis, your wingers are great but i have 2 of the best full backs of all time and i would back them to contain them most of the time, which cuts off the main supply to Kocsis.

Also i think we would do fine in midfield with Redondo who has the ability to keep the ball and pass distribute it better than your deeper midfield players and I also have Hansen who can support him in this respect.

I would also fancy Lato and esp Keizer to get the better of your full backs.

 

[Physiocrat]

@2mufc0 Do you have any vids on Kubala preferably an all touch compilation?

 

[Tuppet]

Close game this, I feel both the teams are very close with tuppet having a slight edge in midfield balanced by mufc being better in defense and slightly in offense.

I am not that convinced with the desailly and vidic partnership, a more calm covering defender would have suited vidic better imo. I can see both of them wanting to follow Ibra when he drops deep which will open up room for kubala to bomb forward or Keizer to cut in.

Offensively I feel it's about equal or a very slight edge to tuppet due to having a better striker but kubala being better as an ss than van hanegam cancels that.

2-1 mufc for me.

Edit- also, Kocsis was 5 foot 9 and played in a system with four attackers. I am not sure how much of a help he will be hear aerially with thuram marking him in defense which negates a big part of the offensive strength for tuppet I.e. The crosses of his wingers.

Well despite of that height Kocsis is largely known as the greatest header of the game, so I don't know, but I do think he would get better of any defender on that front.

"There has never been anybody better with his head," Gusztáv Sebes, coach of the legendary Magical Magyars, said of the striker whose 11 goals took Hungary to the 1954 FIFA World Cup final. "He had a great leap and combined fierce power with pinpoint accuracy."

This claims that he has scored more than 400 headed goals !!

 

[MJJ]

Well despite of that height Kocsis is largely known as the greatest header of the game, so I don't know, but I do think he would get better of any defender on that front.



This claims that he has scored more than 400 headed goals !!

I would attribute that to two things.

One) playing in a four man attacking system where the defense attention was diverted and
Two) the general height and physique of athletes back then. It would be very rare for him to face physically tall and strong defenders like thuram, vidic or desailly in that era. Thus, his height and strength would actually be an advantage in that era.

 

[2mufc0]

@2mufc0 Do you have any vids on Kubala preferably an all touch compilation?

Is a good video there are also others that can be found on YouTube.

 

[Physiocrat]

Is a good video there are also others that can be found on YouTube.

Thanks.

With reference to headed goals, Michael Owen scored quite a lot of headers and he was a midget.

 

[Tuppet]

Thanks @Tuppet , always going to be a tough game as you have a very good team too.

Imo the key to stopping your team will be cutting the supply off to Kocsis, your wingers are great but i have 2 of the best full backs of all time and i would back them to contain them most of the time, which cuts off the main supply to Kocsis.

Also i think we would do fine in midfield with Redondo who has the ability to keep the ball and pass distribute it better than your deeper midfield players and I also have Hansen who can support him in this respect.

I would also fancy Lato and esp Keizer to get the better of your full backs.

As would I ! You have great fullbacks, but they are facing all time greatest dribblers here. Matthews got better off Nilton Santos/Hanappi/Sherwood etc, and he would do the same to Krol. I also don't think Lato is getting better of Camacho. Camacho marked Cruyff pretty well in his game and he is perfectly poised to nullify Lato as he looks to move in. You are also underestimating Bezsonov a bit here, who was an excellent defender and is probably the best right back of all time for USSR. There's also the thing that once my wingers beat your fullbacks they are all time greatest in providing crosses, which Kocsis would just lap it up, while Lato is more likely to cut in and meet the Desaily-Vidic wall.

 

[2mufc0]

I don't see the issue with Ibra playing with other creative players/strikers, before his PSG days he was much quicker and played on the shoulder as well as play making. During his earlier days he played with creative players and strikers like Del Piero, Trezuguet, Adriano, Ronaldinho, Pato, Robinho etc . Even at PSG he played with Cavani.

Good quote from Ibra here when playing the target man:

The key is not to lose the ball when you get it. If I’m alone, I try to protect the ball and keep defenders away using my back, arms, strength and balance. That’s important because if I can hold the ball, it gives the team a chance to join me in attack. I’ll hold it until the rest of the other players come into play. As soon as there’s a player in a better position, I’ll give him the ball. Or, I can go for goal myself. That’s sometimes my instinct. I’m an intelligent player and will make the right choice at that moment
Read more at https://www.fourfourtwo.com/perform...ovic-how-play-a-targetman#U9YLsEXXv8tOth0l.99

This is how i would expect Ibra to combine with Kubala in this game as well as the wingers and Davids.

 

[Tuppet]

I would attribute that to two things.

One) playing in a four man attacking system where the defense attention was diverted and
Two) the general height and physique of athletes back then. It would be very rare for him to face physically tall and strong defenders like thuram, vidic or desailly in that era. Thus, his height and strength would actually be an advantage in that era.

I never thought I would have to defend Kocsis on heading but alright. I don't think you can say that they didn't have strong and tall defenders at that time. I have not done any research on that, but I don't think I believe that having tall physical defenders is a modern thing. The advantage of playingin 4 (or 5) man attack are obvious but at the same time, playing in a team that is likely to dominate midfield with three all time greatest provider giving you service, I actually don't see how he does not score a couple or more here. He is officially the scorer of most hattricks as well.

 

[2mufc0]

Huge credit to @2mufc0 — as the draft went I felt that @Tuppet would walk straight to the final without any real competition. Well, now he won't.
A very close encounter, will have to think about it.

edit: feck, forgot that I can't vote on this one.

Cheers harms.

Why can't you vote?

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Why can't you vote?

The other semi finalists can't vote as this would directly influence the finals.

But then since their match hasn't yet taken place, I don't see a problem in him voting. @harms

 

[2mufc0]

The other semi finalists can't vote as this would directly influence the finals.

But then since their match hasn't yet taken place, I don't see a problem in him voting. @harms

Ok that's fair enough.

 

[Tuppet]

I don't see the issue with Ibra playing with other creative players/strikers, before his PSG days he was much quicker and played on the shoulder as well as play making. During his earlier days he played with creative players and strikers like Del Piero, Trezuguet, Adriano, Ronaldinho, Pato, Robinho etc . Even at PSG he played with Cavani.

Good quote from Ibra here when playing the target man:



This is how i would expect Ibra to combine with Kubala in this game as well as the wingers and Davids.

Cavani/Trezuguet/Adriano/Robinho/Pato is right and that's where he shined most of his career, playing with other strikers and getting complete freedom to play in a creative second striker role. Don't think he gets to do that with Kubala without restricting his game. I think even in Utd last season the prevalent wisdom was that Utd should play 4-3-3 to get the best of Ibra and not get a second striker type player to get in his way. Anyway if you want him to play target-man he is totally capable of it, but then he is not getting better of Vidic-Desaily physically.

Honestly my biggest problem is the depiction of Kubala on that team-sheet, which make it seem like you are playing 4-3-3 which is not correct. Kubala is a second striker, I think somebody once played him as a false 9 as well and that was a fantastic role for him. You have 2 man midfield and with Vieira - hanagem bombing forward, I think you would find it hard to contain our midfield and we would likely dominate midfield, getting the ball to Matthews/Finney as much as possible, who would create chances easily for the best striker on the pitch in Kocsis.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I'm not really sure on Kubala as a B2B here. Wasn't he a forward with Barcelona? He certainly had the flexibility play a CM, but with not really sure of his fit between Redondo and Zlatan.

 

[2mufc0]

I'm not really sure on Kubala as a B2B here. Wasn't he a forward with Barcelona? He certainly had the flexibility play a CM, but with not really sure of his fit between Redondo and Zlatan.

He dropped deeper as his career went on, in the article i posted in the OP he could play #6 or #8. He definitely had the skillset to play the position.

 

[Tuppet]

Sir Tom Finney -


Left foot, right foot, head the ball, pace, skill, passing, crossing, tackling and on and on. Whatever you asked of him, he could do. His total footballing ability allowed him to excel in any position. And was seen quite often as a one man team for Preston, so much so the comment was made by a journalist that he should claim "income tax relief ... for his 10 dependants". Tom was one of the first of a golden generation of players to emerge after the war, where he had served with the armored division. He had previously signed for his beloved and sole club, Preston, and would not get to breakthrough until 24 years old. Due to his skill he would often make a mockery of defenses, much to the distaste of the opposition. Finney would as a result get kicked to hell and back to try and contain him, it never worked. He didn't complain, just got back up and set up a goal or smashed it in from an impossible angle. A player who took that much abuse but never got a yellow card, never tried to retaliate. Its one of the few facts that makes modern footballer comparisons rather laughable.

Preston was not a name club with a great history to provide the platform for success. Yet for all his previously named qualities, he stood out like a shining light. No one could deny him recognition although it has seemingly waned over time as people forget. This was before the likes of Pele had arrived on the scene to show us what was capable of a football. He and others with England were crowned unofficial kings of football at the time. The world cup had little prestige and wasn't taken seriously by the football public or the players. This hampers his legend status as without a world cup or club trophies. The fact he dragged so many ordinary Preston players with him and practically carried the team says a lot. But his goals and creative spark for England cements things, this is a winger with more goals than most strikers. A better strikerate than quite a lot of them too, with his main role being to create attacks. Watch pretty much any England game with him in and he is beating his fullback for fun, and putting in great passes or crosses. It is a shame the England setup were so entrenched and stuck in their ways as to not see the world cup as a route to eternal glory. As most of that time would agree, it was one of the greatest teams the world has seen. In that vein, you have to note the great rivalry of the time of Finney and Matthews. Matthews attained more international recognition, seeing as someone from Europe actually bothered to go see him. But most in England saw him and Finney as the two greatest players in the world at the time. They had similar positions although styles were quite different, with Matthews more of a conductor than an orchestra. Matthews was better at was his Crossing and was a better right winger, but Finney was a better overall player. In their rivalry British football and its fan were real winners.

I will leave you with a couple Bill Shankly quotes about Finney who was a true fan of his skill. Although I wouldn't go quite as far, having said that I have only really seen his England games whereas Shankly saw a great deal up close.

"Tom Finney would have been great in any team, in any match and in any age ... even if he had been wearing an overcoat."

"Pele was a great player. He must rank one of the best of all time. I've said that Tommy Finney was the best I've seen and I'd bracket
Pele, Eusebio, Cruyff, Di Stefano and Puskas up there with him."

When asked to compare one of the players of the day (1982) to Sir Tom: "Aye, he's as good as Tommy – but then Tommy's nearly 60 now."

Also this quote from Moore is high praise indeed considering he was one of, if not the, best centerback in history:

"That lovely, easy control of the ball, the appreciation of the game, the finishing, much of the change of pace, it just unfolded in front of me ... I'd never played with a winger like that and I never would. I was amazed by Tom Finney."

That was also I believe some south african tour where they played together, after Finney had been retired for a while. Going by a vague memory of Finney's autobiography, the quote is from Moore's which I have never read so can't clarify. A retired and past his prime Finney was the best Moore had played with.

 

[Tuppet]

Here's also a great summary of Finney's career that Chester posted for another draft - https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-double-draft.419589/page-74#post-19614520

 

[2mufc0]

He dropped deeper as his career went on, in the article i posted in the OP he could play #6 or #8. He definitely had the skillset to play the position.

Just to follow up on this, i will be looking at using Kubala as he was used in 51-52 where he played behind the striker with 2 wingers, and has the passing and dribbling/technique to bridge the gap between the midfield and Zlatan.

 

[Tuppet]

He dropped deeper as his career went on, in the article i posted in the OP he could play #6 or #8. He definitely had the skillset to play the position.

I think he could play there in same way say Messi can play that position. He was a great and would probably play well that position, but thats not peak Kubala and you are missing out on probably your best goal threat by playing him so deep. He was Barcelona's highest scorer before Messi.

Just to follow up on this, i will be looking at using Kubala as he was used in 51-52 where he played behind the striker with 2 wingers, and has the passing and dribbling/technique to bridge the gap between the midfield and Zlatan.

In 51-52 I am assuming he played in 3-2-5 formation that was prevalent at that time. In Fifa's Englad vs Rest of the world in started as right inside forward along with Vukas. For reference Its the same position where the likes of Kocsis/Puskas had played before him. And Vukas/Puskask/Kocsis would mostly be striker in today's formations.

Take for example the effort from most of the people to create a best Barcelona XI would take Kubala as a striker.

• http://worldsoccertalk.com/2015/11/11/barcelonas-best-starting-xi-of-all-time/ Worldsoccertalk has him a spearheading striker over the likes of Romario/Ronaldo.

Spoiler: WorldSoccertalk Barcelona XI

• http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/12/02/barcelona-greatest-ever-xi/ telegraph has him, Messi & Cruyff as their three forwards.

• https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/all-time-barcelona-xi/4 - Same with this website, which chooses Kubala as striker and Messi / Cruyff flanking him on either side.

• http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2693952-picking-a-greatest-all-foreign-barcelona-xi Finally Bleacher report didn't pick him, but out of Romario, Stoichkov, Ronaldo & Kubala decided to go with Stoichkov.

Its obvious what most people believe his best position was, and it wasn't B2B midfielder at all.

 

[harms]

Edit- also, Kocsis was 5 foot 9 and played in a system with four attackers. I am not sure how much of a help he will be hear aerially with thuram marking him in defense which negates a big part of the offensive strength for tuppet I.e. The crosses of his wingers.

We may as well discount Cannavaro, Passarella, Seeler, Leonidas and all those midgets who can't for the life of them win an aerial duel.
Kocsis main strengths was his positioning as well as his leap, and it's fair to say that he was one of the very best in history in this (alongside Cristiano, Charles and maybe some less shiny names like Hrubesch). He also excelled in Barca in different set up

 

[Ecstatic]

Cavani/Trezuguet/Adriano/Robinho/Pato is right and that's where he shined most of his career, playing with other strikers and getting complete freedom to play in a creative second striker role. Don't think he gets to do that with Kubala without restricting his game. I think even in Utd last season the prevalent wisdom was that Utd should play 4-3-3 to get the best of Ibra and not get a second striker type player to get in his way. Anyway if you want him to play target-man he is totally capable of it, but then he is not getting better of Vidic-Desaily physically.

There are diverse Zlatan.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/what...are-your-expectations-recommendations.419272/

You mention Cavani but the latter was deployed on the wing in a 4-1-2-3 system.
Robinho: 4-4-2 IIRC
Adriano: another tactical system

Zlatan became a false 9 with PSG because he lost his pace so he gradually changed his game.

His best seasons in Italy in terms of stats were with Ballotelli (Inter) and Robinho (Milan).

Honestly my biggest problem is the depiction of Kubala on that team-sheet, which make it seem like you are playing 4-3-3 which is not correct. Kubala is a second striker, I think somebody once played him as a false 9 as well and that was a fantastic role for him. You have 2 man midfield and with Vieira - hanagem bombing forward, I think you would find it hard to contain our midfield and we would likely dominate midfield, getting the ball to Matthews/Finney as much as possible, who would create chances easily for the best striker on the pitch in Kocsis.

Yes, Kubala has to be viewed as a second striker or a free-role offensive player. He isn't a B2B of course.

Despite the # of videos about Kubala (I know because he was my joker in case Scheva/Xavi/Laudrup was injured), I do believe the duo Zlatan/Kubala could be great on paper.

 

[MJJ]

We may as well discount Cannavaro, Passarella, Seeler, Leonidas and all those midgets who can't for the life of them win an aerial duel.
Kocsis main strengths was his positioning as well as his leap, and it's fair to say that he was one of the very best in history in this (alongside Cristiano, Charles and maybe some less shiny names like Hrubesch). He also excelled in Barca in different set up

The first two name on your list are defenders and I have no idea about leonidas, it is different for a defender to defend a cross than for a striker to attack. Seeler proved himself against better defenders and in a formation that is more in line with what is being played here. Furthermore, all of those players are exceptions. It remains to be seen if kocsis excelled due to the space he was awarded and less physicality or due to his own skills from an aerial battle pov only.

 

[harms]

As I mentioned in OP its a great team you got. Kubala's deep positioning in a box to box role is an issue for me

Pretty sure that he was often compared to Di Stefano stylistically. From what I've seen he was a little more attacking oriented, but he was equally comfortable all over the attacking third and I don't see him overlapping with Ibra at all

 

[harms]

The first two name on your list are defenders and I have no idea about leonidas, it is different for a defender to defend a cross than for a striker to attack. Seeler proved himself against better defenders and in a formation that is more in line with what is being played here. Furthermore, all of those players are exceptions. It remains to be seen if kocsis excelled due to the space he was awarded and less physicality or due to his own skills from an aerial battle pov only.

It's such a strange argument that I didn't expect from you - by the same logic we can discount any footballer before 80's. The player scored 400 headers, ffs, and the man scored everywhere where he went, without exceptions.

 

[harms]

The other semi finalists can't vote as this would directly influence the finals.

But then since their match hasn't yet taken place, I don't see a problem in him voting. @harms

If I win (a big if, granted) I would influence my opponent. It's the second semi-final where the loser of the first can vote.
Not that any of us are going to really use strategic voting anyway, of course.

 

[MJJ]

It's such a strange argument that I didn't expect from you - by the same logic we can discount any footballer before 80's. The player scored 400 headers, ffs, and the man scored everywhere where he went, without exceptions.

I am only discounting his heading ability, not his all around ability as a forward. I can put it another way if that will be better, I would expect thuram to neutralize kocsis aerially given his height, strength and reading of the game.

 

[Tuppet]

Pretty sure that he was often compared to Di Stefano stylistically. From what I've seen he was a little more attacking oriented, but he was equally comfortable all over the attacking third and I don't see him overlapping with Ibra at all

Yes, Kubala has to be viewed as a second striker or a free-role offensive player. He isn't a B2B of course.

Despite the # of videos about Kubala (I know because he was my joker in case Scheva/Xavi/Laudrup was injured), I do believe the duo Zlatan/Kubala could be great on paper.

There is not much I got left to say here. But I do believe that his obscurity is playing a hand here, he is deployed as a B2B midfielder from his manager, I don't see how that does not have an effect on the game. He is definitely a striker/second striker for me and in my opinion, 2mufc0's tactical instruction are not going to get anywhere close to best of him.

In front of him will be Davids and Kubala in box to box roles, these two will provide defensive solidity aswell as fantastic service for the front three.

Also Ibra-Kubala could be a great duo in theory (I don't believe they would as they are both very similar), but 2mufc0 is not playing them as such, he has clearly mentioned in his OP that Kubala is playing as B2B midfielder. His tactical instructions should have a bearing on the game.

On Di Stefano & Kubala, I think they were compared mostly because they were playing for the two big clubs in Spain and both were the talisman for their teams. Di Stefano was almost certainly more defensively solid and I wouldn't even play him as a B2B midfielder. I am not sure how we can prove something like this though.

 

[Tuppet]

If I win (a big if, granted) I would influence my opponent. It's the second semi-final where the loser of the first can vote.
Not that any of us are going to really use strategic voting anyway, of course.

I don't mind you voting in the game at all. We gotta trust that no one is actually doing strategic voting thing, or this is all fecked anyway.

 

[Tuppet]

I am only discounting his heading ability, not his all around ability as a forward. I can put it another way if that will be better, I would expect thuram to neutralize kocsis aerially given his height, strength and reading of the game.

I don't agree with this at all (obviously ) You have practically the greatest header of the ball of all time, being provided crosses by two of the best at doing that, I don't believe any defense can cope with that. Also was Thuram really that great in air ? I mean I know he was very good, but he is not an all time material like say Cannavaro, Passarella etc. Well that's how far it go for me, I do think that you are underrating Kocsis heading ability massively here.

 

[MJJ]

I don't agree with this at all (obviously ) You have practically the greatest header of the ball of all time, being provided crosses by two of the best at doing that, I don't believe any defense can cope with that. Also was Thuram really that great in air ? I mean I know he was very good, but he is not an all time material like say Cannavaro, Passarella etc. Well that's how far it go for me, I do think that you are underrating Kocsis heading ability massively here.

I probably am as I havent watched him play or know much about him like I do with thuram.

 

[harms]

I don't mind you voting in the game at all. We gotta trust that no one is actually doing strategic voting thing, or this is all fecked anyway.

Yeah, probably an outdated rule. I don't know who I would vote for a moment, so it's not an issue anyway

 

[Tuppet]

There are diverse Zlatan.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/what...are-your-expectations-recommendations.419272/

You mention Cavani but the latter was deployed on the wing in a 4-1-2-3 system.
Robinho: 4-4-2 IIRC
Adriano: another tactical system

Zlatan became a false 9 with PSG because he lost his pace so he gradually changed his game.

His best seasons in Italy in terms of stats were with Ballotelli (Inter) and Robinho (Milan).

Missed the Zlatan part of this post before. I don't want to take this criticism to silly lengths, I love Ibra and he was flexible enough to play in many positions. But specifically of the players you have highlighted here, Ballotelli & Robinho (Milan), neither would be the one who is similar to Kubala in my opinion. They are either pure striker (Ballotelli) or wide forward (Robinho) and I think thats perfect for Zlatan. Again he is obviously good enough to play as a target man of sorts, and playing with Kubala wouldn't turn him into a donkey but at this level, all I am arguing about is best possible fit of players, and I don't think Kubala-Ibra has that. Ibra would have been much better served in my opinion a true attacking B2B player such as Pogba/Neeskens or a Xavi-esque playmaker from deep to have a proper 4-3-3. Another striker in Adriano mould would work as well, giving him a reference point and space to use his playmaking to fullest.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Close match. I'll have to comment throughout as I read and think more.

Edit- also, Kocsis was 5 foot 9 and played in a system with four attackers. I am not sure how much of a help he will be hear aerially with thuram marking him in defense which negates a big part of the offensive strength for tuppet I.e. The crosses of his wingers.

Heading isn't just about height or even leap though. Its also about movement and positioning. Sometimes its finding that 1-2 yards of space away from the defender to receive the header and sometimes its about pacing and timing of getting to a ball before the defender.