Really, where are we now?

[justsomebloke]

I realise this is a thread title that constitutes an open invitation to all sorts of vague bellyaching, of which there is probably more than enough on this forum already. But I have a slightly more precise observation.

I don't think I can recall a time when I felt more uncertain about exactly where this team are, and how it will go from here. Everything seems to pile up in that direction:

- Results so far: 2 home wins against weak teams, 2 away losses to strong teams. Is that good, bad, okay? Promising, worrying?
- Team performances so far: One bad and one atrocious half against Wolves, one good and one bad half against Spurs, 3 1/2 minutes from hell followed by two very good halves against Forest, and against Arsenal two....what, exactly? We didn't create much in either half and lost by two goals, but some aspects of our game looked more effective than before and it was tight almost until the end. So, our normal level is....what?
- Individual performances: Who is Casemiro now, the player we saw for most of last season, or the player we've been seeing this season? You could mention other names too.
- Squad: 3 new players who have yet to play a full half. What will they bring?
- Injuries: 3/4 of the defence out, as well as the midfielder (Mount) who was supposed to change the way we play, but didn't succeed very well in his first outings. In addition to both of our strikers just recently returning from injuries (with Martial looking like the lack of a preseason is really hurting his game, at least for now).
- The Antony situation: How long will we be without him? Will he return at all? If he does, how will the situation affect him?
- The Sancho situation: Whatever you think of ETHs handling (and I for one am behind him), what will be the effect on the team of a public row between the manager and the team's highest-paid player? Will Sancho continue to figure, and if he does, what will he bring?
- The Greenwood situation: How's the case and the club's handling of it affecting squad mood?
- The club sale situation: Is it off? Will the unclarity drag on? Will it happen? How's it affecting decision-making, and the general mood inside the club?
- The Maguire situation: How will it affect the squad to have a former captain stripped of the armband and warming the bench? When he gets his chances, will he take them? With the current mood among fans and in the press, it's not exactly going to take much for him to generate a massive negative feedback.
- Preseason and fitness: The team has at times not looked match ready, and there have been worrying mumbles about an overly strenuous US tour undertaken for commercial reasons. Is that going to right itself, or have we seen the first stages of a serious issue?


Between all of this, my predominant feeling is one of having absolutely no clue how this is going to develop. I think there's a genuine chance the season could go to shit. There's also a genuine chance it could turn out very well. And while all of that that could legitimately be called a "no shit Sherlock" observation, I can't think of a time in recent years where there's been so many reasons to be this uncertain. How are others feeling about this?

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Maybe this will be the season that the rest of the poison is finally purged from the club.

Papering over cracks is the best most United managers have been able to do with players of poor character, disjointed squad management and non existent football infrastructure among other things.

Maybe it needed to get worse before it gets better. I’d take a season of disaster if it purged us of the glazers and there was proper reform.

Since the idiot yanks don’t have the money to own a big club like United , once they have gone you’d hope a newer owner wouldn’t be so small minded in taking and expand the strategy beyond praying that they can keep marketing the brand and hoping that it’s enough to run the club.

 

[sullydnl]

The season will most likely be fine.

Most of those issues listed were present last season anyway. Ownership, Greenwood's absense, injuries, poor form (which in this case has just two losses to relatively strong teams), etc. Even in Sancho and Antony's case, they were either absent or playing poorly for large parts of last season.

And around them the squad has been strengthened, with us now having an actual CF, an actual back-up DM, not having to rely on the ageing Eriksen as our attack-minded CM, having replaced our currently-can't-find-a-club previous GK with someone who can actually pass the ball, etc.

A lot of the uncertainty is just noise, basically.

 

[foolsgold]

I'm pretty optimistic about the rest of the season, I think all our signings including Mount will come good, really liked the cameo from Rasmus last week, can't wait to see him starting. We've got a great upgrade in goal.

There's been some shitty luck with injuries, but this could be the year that Manio and Amad establish themselves in the first team too, expecting a lot from Garnacho as well. Bruno seems to be coming to his best form.

The big problem is the ownership, we all agree that it can't go on forever, so at some point it will end.

 

[MegadrivePerson]

Casemiro is a major concern for me. He's had more bad games than good in 2023. Hopefully a big Saudi offer is forthcoming otherwise we are going to be stuck with him until the end of his contract.

 

[AdamColeBebe]

Maybe this will be the season that the rest of the poison is finally purged from the club.

Papering over cracks is the best most United managers have been able to do with players of poor character, disjointed squad management and non existent football infrastructure among other things.

Maybe it needed to get worse before it gets better. I’d take a season of disaster if it purged us of the glazers and there was proper reform.

Since the idiot yanks don’t have the money to own a big club like United , once they have gone you’d hope a newer owner wouldn’t be so small minded in taking and expand the strategy beyond praying that they can keep marketing the brand and hoping that it’s enough to run the club.

Ad Infinitum

 

[Siorac]

We're pretty much exactly where we've been throughout the last decade. A directionless club that exists to be around the CL qualification spots, while being significantly inferior to the actual elite clubs both on and off the pitch.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Ad Infinitum

If I’m honest, I feel the same, just trying to find some optimism of hope

 

[AndySmith1990]

Feels like the past decade has been a pattern of one step forward followed by one step back, and every other season we end up no better off than where we were under Moyes, LVG, Mourinho, and Ole. Things always conspire against us to estinguish any hope that was previously built up

 

[horsechoker]

Manchester

 

[Shakesy]

What we need is a restart. Top to bottom. Get rid, whatever the cost. Promote from youth and build over two or three seasons. Sell high earners, lower expectations and rebuild. Stop changing managers and focus on purchasing promising young players with the right attitude.

 

[neon_badger]

I'm not even sure what would constitute a good season at this point. Top 4 finish? decent run in the cups? Bringing in whatever mediocrity we can get on lone in Jan, and end up relying on players that clearly aren't working for whatever reason. It's looking we need to get worse to get better, break the cycle.

 

[Castia]

Last season was a step forward and this feels like 2 steps back (although it’s early days)

I will say that Mount, Amrabat and Hojlund could completely change the dynamic of the team though I’m quietly optimistic

Off the field it’s about as bad as it’s been. Club is still run like a circus, the finances have finally caught up with us after 10 years of spunking money away, players accused of various acts, players that are essentially transfer listed still getting minutes at the club, the Sancho situation etc the list is never ending

So to round it all up this farce of a club seems to be getting even worse

 

[Ayoba]

We're pretty much exactly where we've been throughout the last decade. A directionless club that exists to be around the CL qualification spots, while being significantly inferior to the actual elite clubs both on and off the pitch.

This.

 

[justsomebloke]

Manchester

You are so right. Manchester.

 

[Leftback99]

I'd say at this point we're more likely to implode and do a Chelsea of last season, than a best case scenario for us of repeating 3rd.

 

[Castia]

We're pretty much exactly where we've been throughout the last decade. A directionless club that exists to be around the CL qualification spots, while being significantly inferior to the actual elite clubs both on and off the pitch.

Spot on

 

[Mike Smalling]

I think we will be a lot smarter after a few games with Højlund and Amrabat in the side. If they are able to get up to speed quickly and improve the side, we could be ok once all the noise dies down a bit.

 

[ShoePolish]

For what it's worth, first games of the season could be ten Hags achilees, like Mourinhos 3rd season or Contes meltdowns, hopefully it's an upwards trajectory from here.
Too many too early to judge based on first few games.
If you look at same corresponding games from last season, we're only 1 point worse off with Spurs being a loss instead of a draw.
Frustrating that this looks like a transitional season yet again, but we're hampered by FFP and players out of favour unwilling to move. DoF needs to step it up for me, ten Hags second summer in charge, and we again were scrambling end of transfer window.

 

[Battery]

I'm hoping that ETH does not have some offer come in from another top team, he is clearly the best manager we have had since Sir Alex and the amount of shit he has had to wade through is pretty incredible.

 

[Counterfactual]

Disappointedly
less optimistic because
of events, dear boy

 

[Chairman Steve]

I’m cautiously optimistic. Don’t forget we missed some considerable players against Arsenal and finished the game with our 5th and 6th choice centre backs. Hojlund was barely match fit. Martial was a handicap.

I look forward to seeing how we play when Amrabat and Mount play more. I can see Mount working well with Hojlund.

 

[RedIan]

ETH took over a shit storm, its taking time to sort it out. I firmly believe he has the character to pull us out the other side.. Get rid of the dead wood and toxicity and rebuild with hungry talented players. It took Fergie 4 years, i think Eric will crack it in 3 But lets say it takes 4 years but then 10 years plus of dominance follows, is it worth the wait..?? It is for me.

Those who demand instant success were clearly were not around pre the Fergie golden era.

 

[Demon Barber]

I am generally an optimistic person, but I have to admit that the constant negativity, speculation and uncertainty surrounding United is wearing me down. Against "weaker" teams I find myself hoping we will scrape a win. Against top teams I just want to avoid humiliation.

That said, I have watched us since the mid 1960s and have experienced the highs and the lows. We did okay last year, and I believe we have strengthened the team. We have some young and exciting players and in my opinion an excellent manager. The team is still being built but it will take time.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

We're in a really bad position from top to bottom. The club is in turmoil, the manager is under the cosh already for things which aren't even fully under his control, the players are either revolting, or revolting. Sadly there's no distraction from this on the pitch, as we're dire there too. Dull and uninspiring. My son is 18 months and I took him to his first football training this weekend. Would love him to grow up a United fan but I really don't want to put him through the boredom and stress

 

[sugar_kane]

We are making good progress with the squad, getting rid of overpaid mediocrity and bad apples.

There are legit reasons for the areas that haven’t been resolved properly yet (eg. Maguire’s wages, a dire market for centre forwards, FFP limitations, the perception in the market we can still be taken for a ride on fees)

The problem is our fan base and the media expect everything to be sorted immediately. There was so much to sort out before Ten Hag came in that it was always going to take at least a couple of seasons before the squad was in a position to challenge for the highest honours.

If anything, he over achieved in his first season (based on initial expectations) which has amped up the pressure for season two beyond where it should be.

The absolute worst possible thing we could do this season is panic and get rid of Ten Hag if results go badly this season (which they very well could do).

All this does it put us back to the start of the cycle again with another manager, and sends a message to the squad (again) that the Manchester United manager is not in a strong position, entrenching the weak, complacent mentality which needs rooting out.

I’d take mid table this season and title challenge next season over edging top four in both seasons and treading water.

 

[Borys]

It's a cleanup season, nothing less, nothing more really. There are some things to get excited about (Hojlund, I also think Mount will be a good player for us once we learn how to use him).
With so many issues all round I expect us to grind results and hopefully get top 4. However, just as last season we will need a lot of help from our rivals.
The transition takes much more time because we are such a mess. But one year from now we should be in much healthier place.

 

[ScholesyTheWise]

We're pretty much exactly where we've been throughout the last decade. A directionless club that exists to be around the CL qualification spots, while being significantly inferior to the actual elite clubs both on and off the pitch.

That's scarily precise.

 

[Denis79]

We are not a team at the absolute top layer of football anymore , accepting this allows us to manage our expectations better. We have the capability to win in individual matches against any team, but keeping the pace with top clubs over time is a tall ask.

Securing a top 4 position and possibly clinching a lesser cup is where we are at the moment and where we have been for over 10 years now. Looking at it from this angle, I'm not worried about our season. A top 5 finish and a ok cup run seems doable.

 

[VP89]

I actually think wel go on a very strong run soon.

 

[Daengophile]

We have a bunch of new players to get up to speed.

We're 4 matches into the season

Disruption with Sancho and Antony

Disruption with international break

And about to resume

Too early to call

Far too early to throw our dolls on the floor

 

[philippexyz]

We are in the Glazer Apocalypse era(2005 - ). Sometimes I call it Glazer Tragedy era, Glazer Armaggeddon... you can be creative with constructing a name if you're eloquent enough(I'm not, English is not my native language).

Nothing of much significance will ever be achieved as long as they own and pillage the club. Who is the manager, doesn't matter at all when the footballing structure above him is completely incompetent and shambolic(Woodward while he was here, Murtough - director of football, scouts, recruitment, facilities, board...). We all know that here on this forum, I assume most people that come here are not idiots.

There is/was some hope that Glazer Apocalypse era will come to an end after the announcement of last November, but that grotesque, pathologically greedy and incompetent family is still here and there aren't many signs right now that they're leaving soon, even though there is not really much financial sense for them to continue to own this football club with their business model(debts, dividends, "Disneyland", commercial success over sporting one...).

There is more and more competition, more and more money is flooding into the PL and relative strength of Manchester United as a brand is weakening, compared to some other clubs which will reflect in the future in various, decaying - ominous ways(sponsorships, popularity, cultural relevance, size of fanbase, revenue...). Especially with younger audience, we're losing relevance and sporting/cultural magnitude(in their eyes), which is dangerous for the future of the brand and future revenue, success.

If this club is to survive and avoid gradual phases of first midtable irrelevancy(obscurity) and then eventually fighting relegation and bankruptcy/administration, Glazers need to leave. Immediately. There isn't much time left. Manchester United is a ticking time-bomb. And, on it's current trajectory, it's going to explode one day and it won't be pretty(except for Liverpool fans etc.).

 

[Jezpeza]

We are in a negative situation at the moment. Theres too many injuries and too many off field problems. Antony and Sancho are gone in my opinion for varying reasons.

likes of DVB, Maguire, Mctominay should remain for sale between between windows.

We need to get back to basics on the pitch. Have to try Facundo and Amad at RW. Sell and replace if they arent good enough. Play Amrabat and Casemiro. Be hard to beat and grind it out while we wait for the main players to return.

The takeover? Who knows. The Glazers haven’t backed the manager again after securing top 4 whilst our rivals have rebuilt their midfield, or in the case of Arsenal and Man City strengthened what was already much better than us. Its hard to not lose last seasons momentum now

 

[NotoriousISSY]

Had high hopes for this season, but between the false takeover hope, the handling of Greenwood, Antony allegations and Sancho there is far too much noise and negativity. That's not going into Shaw and Varane's injuries, Martinez has been hauled off twice, Casemiro looks seriously leggy and we're unsure how good any of our summer signings are bar Onana who himself has had a tough start.

The squad has a lack of characters to drag the football side through, and EtH has already handled a lot of negativity since taking over...so he's got his work cut out to work around all of the above.

We're also going to be completely reliant on Rashford and Garnacho staying fit and delivering as much as they did last season with seriously inferior back ups.

I do expect us to support Liverpool's route back into the Top 4 this year unfortunately, but hope to be seriously wrong.

 

[Borninthe80ts]

It’s a weird place we are in for sure. I think sometimes we forget this is only the second season of 4 year cycle. We saw some good progress last year thus expectations may have risen.

In purely football teams I think there’s cause for optimism but it’s difficult to see at the minute with so many injuries and some core players form fluctuating. I believe we have improved the squad overall but just haven’t had our 20 best players fit at the same time so far.

However with all the outside the club or non footballing issues present, for me it’s probably distracting but mainly creates a negative perception. I believe Ten has shown that he is capable of dealing with complicated issues and still generate good performances from the team. The sale has definitely affected the running of the club, and I’ll say once this situation has been resolved we will have a clearer picture of the long term. Player issues that still exist will be easier to resolve, ie signing replacements or pay offs and allow the manager to make the team more his own.

Saying all that to say that when/if we start to win most of the negativity will be forgotten I’m sure.

 

[erikcred]

We have the capability to win in individual matches against any team, but keeping the pace with top clubs over time is a tall ask.

Sadly, this could be about west ham as much as us.

 

[Shakesy]

Disappointedly
less optimistic because
of events, dear boy

I like this haiku

Edit: But the last line needs more punch

 

[Adam McNeill]

We are not a team at the absolute top layer of football anymore, accepting this allows us to manage our expectations better.

Exactly this!

It is what I had to do and once I made peace with that I have been able to enjoy the process much more. Especially since ETH came, I feel he is perfect for us.

All I would like to see now is better management decisions and more ruthlessness with players who turn out to be duds, i.e. Sancho

So to answer the thread title, a summary of where are we right now:

A 2nd - 6th Prem League club that will get the odd cup for the next 2 to 3 years (we will never win the league again while Man City are cheating it every year).

Performance-wise, much of the same, with ups and downs with steady improvements over the coming years.

Beyond that will depend on new ownership, investment/club modernisation and better leadership decisions.

 

[Shakesy]

I think we will be a lot smarter after a few games with Højlund and Amrabat in the side. If they are able to get up to speed quickly and improve the side, we could be ok once all the noise dies down a bit.

Good luck with that

 

[Zlatattack]

shit start to the season, compounded on by off the pitch issues. We won't be making top 4 this season, the club is too distracted.