I am not sure what modern style of football these players can fit into.
They definitely do not consistently play a style of football.
They definitely do not consistently play a style of football.
Rebuild job needed…again
- Thread starter markhughes
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Agree and what impressed me the most with Tuchel is how he manages to rotate the team. Everyone get regularly a game and you can see that is working as everyone feels involved.
Ole is the exact reverse. He wants a big squad only to have his favorites playing no matter what while alienating the others.
That’s one of the reason SAF was so good, every fringe player was part of the squad and had his contribution winning titles. Ole was a bench player for us but doesn’t know how to use the bench. He learned nothing from the great man.
Some fans are awful.
Shaw and Maguire are great examples, shaw has been one of the top players in his position in the world for the last 12-18 months. Maguire had a slow start to last season but then showed he’s one of the top centre backs in the league, he’s obviously not 100% fit right now.
Tactically we are absolutely inept with absolutely zero clear identity on the pitch.
We had a good summer with some good signings but completely missed the boat on a centre mid, which we can’t blame anyone for other than the manager and recruitment staff. Going in to another season having mcfred as your centre mid partnership and keeping out DVB and Pogba is shocking.
We’ve spent the last 2 years relying on moments of brilliance, whether from Bruno, Rashford, Martial or Pogba - and now cr7.
Even when we’ve had big wins against City and Chelsea, we’ve sat back, defended like a championship side and used pace to hit them on the break.
We go a goal down or even 2 and our players just start playing off of instinct, this is where the moments of brilliance obviously come from. It’s saved Ole too many times to even count - but this has tactically been outclassed whenever it matters - europa league final, the semi finals we’ve been in, big games against Liverpool, city, Chelsea, even arsenal.
I was one of the few that didn’t want Ole to sign the permanent contract, even despite the PSG game - I think he did a great job getting players in that bought the philosophy of the club, but at the same time there have been glaring holes in recruitment and no tactical Identity!
Shaw and Maguire are great examples, shaw has been one of the top players in his position in the world for the last 12-18 months. Maguire had a slow start to last season but then showed he’s one of the top centre backs in the league, he’s obviously not 100% fit right now.
Tactically we are absolutely inept with absolutely zero clear identity on the pitch.
We had a good summer with some good signings but completely missed the boat on a centre mid, which we can’t blame anyone for other than the manager and recruitment staff. Going in to another season having mcfred as your centre mid partnership and keeping out DVB and Pogba is shocking.
We’ve spent the last 2 years relying on moments of brilliance, whether from Bruno, Rashford, Martial or Pogba - and now cr7.
Even when we’ve had big wins against City and Chelsea, we’ve sat back, defended like a championship side and used pace to hit them on the break.
We go a goal down or even 2 and our players just start playing off of instinct, this is where the moments of brilliance obviously come from. It’s saved Ole too many times to even count - but this has tactically been outclassed whenever it matters - europa league final, the semi finals we’ve been in, big games against Liverpool, city, Chelsea, even arsenal.
I was one of the few that didn’t want Ole to sign the permanent contract, even despite the PSG game - I think he did a great job getting players in that bought the philosophy of the club, but at the same time there have been glaring holes in recruitment and no tactical Identity!
Patriarchy and the Catholic Church obviously.
Agree .
We need a RB, a CB, a CDM and a CM. Outlay? Around £170-180m.
We need a RB this January window. In the summer, we have to desperately go for the CDM and CM. A CB COULD be held off for another window after, Lindelof has been steady and Bailly isn't that bad. But we do need someone to challenge Maguire.
That's it. We need to hold on to VDB and potentially Cavani for another season too. Laird is coming through for us on the RB position, Mejbri and Garner need to be provided chances in the centre.
Martial, Mata, Lingard, AWB, Pereira and Bailly are surplus to requirements. Could get £70-80m for that lot. Henderson should be loaned out for his own good and development.
Chong, Williams and Tuanzebe, unfortunately, won't make it here. Some funds can be raised here. Maybe £20-25m.
From aggressive sales over the next 2-3 windows, the "net spend" would only be around £60-80m. That's pretty much nothing for a club of United's financial prowess.
There's no need for a "rebuild", we've got a healthy squad. There's nothing more required - other than a CB because of Maguire's worrying form - than what was needed at the end of this summer's window.
We need a RB this January window. In the summer, we have to desperately go for the CDM and CM. A CB COULD be held off for another window after, Lindelof has been steady and Bailly isn't that bad. But we do need someone to challenge Maguire.
That's it. We need to hold on to VDB and potentially Cavani for another season too. Laird is coming through for us on the RB position, Mejbri and Garner need to be provided chances in the centre.
Martial, Mata, Lingard, AWB, Pereira and Bailly are surplus to requirements. Could get £70-80m for that lot. Henderson should be loaned out for his own good and development.
Chong, Williams and Tuanzebe, unfortunately, won't make it here. Some funds can be raised here. Maybe £20-25m.
From aggressive sales over the next 2-3 windows, the "net spend" would only be around £60-80m. That's pretty much nothing for a club of United's financial prowess.
There's no need for a "rebuild", we've got a healthy squad. There's nothing more required - other than a CB because of Maguire's worrying form - than what was needed at the end of this summer's window.
The only real position in need of attention on the pitch is CDM.
We need a rebuild everywhere else.
We need a rebuild everywhere else.
Replacing Martial and Lingard with a CM would make the squad look a lot more balanced. Promote Laird. Job done.
We do not.
Get in a manager that extracts the maximum from the team and makes us a team that's more than the sum of their parts.
Then, we can work on slotting in new players.
Get in a manager that extracts the maximum from the team and makes us a team that's more than the sum of their parts.
Then, we can work on slotting in new players.
They are every bit as responsible.
Whilst I agree with part of your thinking (it's clear Ole is not capable of turning this around) the players have been horrendously underperformed and making horrendous errors I'd not expect at League 1 level. That's not coaching.
However, the absolute lack of any Plan A, let alone B is firmly down to the manager and coaching.
I rebuild isn't needed that squad is good enough, we're a decent midfielder away from having one of the best squads in the league
Yeah it’s down to clueless coaching that we concede so many chances that lead to individual errors.
Coaching team including manager to be replaced. Then, assuming we don’t have all the money in the world the following can stay as either starter or bench option:
Starter: De Gea (some might argue, but he has done well this season and we have other more important areas to improve), Shaw, Varane (the best defender we have, unfortunate with injuries), Rashford, Greenwood, Ronaldo, Sancho (he hasn’t performed as we expected but give him time, he is very young still), Cavani, and Bruno
that is 9 players good enough to play for a top team and should it fit be able to start for us!
Bench/depth Bisakka (not good enough to start, but good option to have on the bench, especially because we can’t sell him with the wage he has), McTominay (not good enough, but we need players on the bench and, is an academy player and a fighter that could be needed sometimes), Henderson (good to have someone on the bench to fight with De Gea), Heaton (experienced 3rd keeper, and academy player), Matic (would keep him for his experience, a pity he isn’t 5 years older), Diallo (based on few games, he have the explosiveness and talent to get a few minutes in games we are leading, rather him getting the last minutes than martial)
That is 6 bench players. I’ve not included anyone from youth team as it’s difficult to measure their level on profesional level
the rest of the players I wouldn’t mind if they were sold!
Had difficulties in not including some players in above, but they need to go to make room for new and better investments. Maguaire, I like him but he is too inconsistent and too slow. Lindelof could be a good option on the bench but then I hate seeing him get 5-10 games in a row because of injuries, then I’d rather we invest in a better back-up player. Lingard is a good option from the bench and is also an academy player but then we should be able to find better back-up players than him and more consistent ones, maybe even some young players from the academy (sorry to say that Lingard isn’t that young any longer). Then Fred, which I like very much due to his will to fight and lungs that can run forever, but let’s be honest, he is the poor man’s version of Kante, he is simply not good enough for a top team in the Pl
Starter: De Gea (some might argue, but he has done well this season and we have other more important areas to improve), Shaw, Varane (the best defender we have, unfortunate with injuries), Rashford, Greenwood, Ronaldo, Sancho (he hasn’t performed as we expected but give him time, he is very young still), Cavani, and Bruno
that is 9 players good enough to play for a top team and should it fit be able to start for us!
Bench/depth Bisakka (not good enough to start, but good option to have on the bench, especially because we can’t sell him with the wage he has), McTominay (not good enough, but we need players on the bench and, is an academy player and a fighter that could be needed sometimes), Henderson (good to have someone on the bench to fight with De Gea), Heaton (experienced 3rd keeper, and academy player), Matic (would keep him for his experience, a pity he isn’t 5 years older), Diallo (based on few games, he have the explosiveness and talent to get a few minutes in games we are leading, rather him getting the last minutes than martial)
That is 6 bench players. I’ve not included anyone from youth team as it’s difficult to measure their level on profesional level
the rest of the players I wouldn’t mind if they were sold!
Had difficulties in not including some players in above, but they need to go to make room for new and better investments. Maguaire, I like him but he is too inconsistent and too slow. Lindelof could be a good option on the bench but then I hate seeing him get 5-10 games in a row because of injuries, then I’d rather we invest in a better back-up player. Lingard is a good option from the bench and is also an academy player but then we should be able to find better back-up players than him and more consistent ones, maybe even some young players from the academy (sorry to say that Lingard isn’t that young any longer). Then Fred, which I like very much due to his will to fight and lungs that can run forever, but let’s be honest, he is the poor man’s version of Kante, he is simply not good enough for a top team in the Pl
No they're not. That's only true for a one off performance. We've been shite for a very long time and that's down to the manager picking the players and instructing them. He's free to a pick a different player if they don't follow the instructions. We're playing exactly like Ole wants us to.
We need a RB, CDM & CM.
AWB isn’t the answer at RB unfortunately but he’s not horrendous, hopefully with someone pushing him, a decent coach and good team structure he could eventually be though.
Matic needs to be replaced obviously with a quality CDM who can get around the middle and break up play.
We need another CM as I hope Pogba will go and McT isn’t good enough.
Clear out a host of under performers/older players in, Dalot, Bailly, McT, Pogba, Martial, Lingard, Mata &Matic. Cavani will probably leave as well.
I honestly don’t think this is a bad squad, just needs much better coaching.
AWB isn’t the answer at RB unfortunately but he’s not horrendous, hopefully with someone pushing him, a decent coach and good team structure he could eventually be though.
Matic needs to be replaced obviously with a quality CDM who can get around the middle and break up play.
We need another CM as I hope Pogba will go and McT isn’t good enough.
Clear out a host of under performers/older players in, Dalot, Bailly, McT, Pogba, Martial, Lingard, Mata &Matic. Cavani will probably leave as well.
I honestly don’t think this is a bad squad, just needs much better coaching.
Not only that though. OP has a point. Look at the players that will be leaving soon
Pogba
DVB
Lingard
Henderson
Imagine how shite our midfield is now with McFred. We will need 4 CM's the way we are going.
I think that's well over the top. Two good CMs, Pogba out and a quality second option at RB, and we're there.
Arguably Shaw and Martial were decent under LVG and had good spells under Ole. I mean haven’t they both picked up club accolades for their performances? Get a decent manager and see what happens
But I thought Ole did such a great groundwork?
I won't blame any of the players as "not good enough" until I see them with a competent manager. Of course some of them won't be good enough but they all get a clean skate as far as my concern when Ole leaves. He's sabotaging their careers
Nonsense
Shaw, pogba, rashford, martial, bailly, lindeloff, fred, mctominay et al. All played under Mourinho too - most of which he'd given up on because he felt they weren't good enough.
I very, very rarely say this but Michael Owen was correct yesterday... perfect summary.
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Any other club: sign new players each season to keep things ticking
Our club: rebuild needed each year
Our club: rebuild needed each year
Bloody hell when Owen is speaking total sense, we're living in the most scary of times.
The OP begs the question though. What style of football are we going to play? At the moment we have a hodge podge of individuals who don't have a coherent strategy. And as soon as you pick one, some of the players become redundant.
Ten Hag plays High Press, like Pep and Klopp do. If we go that way (and we must if we want to compete) then you are talking a very costly rebuild. It's all very well waiving that away but that's the reality. Unless the Glazers commit to it then Ten Hag won't come and we stay where we are.
Ten Hag plays High Press, like Pep and Klopp do. If we go that way (and we must if we want to compete) then you are talking a very costly rebuild. It's all very well waiving that away but that's the reality. Unless the Glazers commit to it then Ten Hag won't come and we stay where we are.
100%. A top quality coaching setup will sort out that defence for a start.
Since we're chopping and changing formations every game desperate to find something that sticks I guess we're in the second rebuild phase of Ole's rebuild.
Terrible thread
Agreed.
I've said this many times. If this squad was playing under Real Madrid, they'd be expecting the CL.
We have a team of expensively assembled Galacticos and all we need is a top class manager to arrive and win us some trophies with this team.
I genuinely believe that with no more signing, this team can win trophies. We just need a better manager and team of coaches.
Guardiola says hi!
Yeah, it’s so terrible when facts are said. I can’t wait too see the young McTom and AWB under next manager!
So you are telling me AWB, McTom and Fred would play for Real Madrid?? Really??
Just bring in some manager and coaches, who know to use this squad and who know how to lead, form and drill a team. No need to discuss the players, many players need leadership, structure, drills and management and Ole gave them a smile. Under a good coach many of our players will perform on a higher level.
Agreed. A competent manager and coaching team would transform this side.
Yes, this is partly what I was thinking in the OP, no manager is going to be able to tweak this team to be able to challenge City and Liverpool because we have gone out and bought names without really thinking about the system we want to play.
It will take quite some time before we can challenge and a lot of areas need addressing before we will be in that position, by that time we will need to replace Ronaldo, Cavani, Pogba etc
The problem with the squad is its overly bloated, and needs a real defensive midfielder. Other than that, it doesn't need a rebuild. Needs tightening up is all.
A rebuild is needed behind that, but the actual squad is fine, in fact it's the best squad we've had since our 06-09 team. I genuinely believe that. A good manager should have us competing for the title and anything less is a disappointment imo.
A rebuild is needed behind that, but the actual squad is fine, in fact it's the best squad we've had since our 06-09 team. I genuinely believe that. A good manager should have us competing for the title and anything less is a disappointment imo.
Agreed. One of the biggest problems here is the convenient fantasy that 'it's all down to the coaching'. The coaching is of course bad and Ole should go. But it's the tip of the iceberg and simply bringing in a new face on its own won't solve anything because the same structural pressures will come to bear again.
That said there is a halfway house. A half competent coaching staff and a couple of DMs would probably get us top four. I imagine that's where we will go in January or the summer.
Don't judge the squad until we get a new manager in. Ole is completely incompetent.
Agreed, 2 CMs with a proper right back + A good coaching setup !
We are similar to what Chelsea were last year. Hopeless under an incompetent manager. In comes a competent one, they're different.
We need a top coach.
We need a top coach.
Owen spoke 2 & a half minutes of pure facts there. It’s all reactionary & he’s been coddled by the fanbase doing it for years. To complain now is rich from some sections as they’ve been bending over backwards excusing the man for years.