Rebuild Step by Step

[diarm]

We're not going to sell 20 players this summer and sign another 20 to replace them so how do we sort this out without throwing more good money after bad with no focus and long term plan?

I reckon we should focus on an area we can fix in one summer and put all our efforts into that. Then do the same for another area next year and so on.

Most great teams (Peps teams are the exceptions to the rule) are built from the back and you only have to look at Liverpool this season to see how Van Dijk and a pair of quality fullbacks have changed their team. Our defence has been a joke for a long, long time and it's time for a purge.

Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Valencia, Darmian, Young, Bailly, Lindelof are not good enough to start for this club. In the case of Valencia and Young, they never have been but certainly not now that age has caught up with them. Sell or release those 8 and replace them with De Ligt, Koulibaly, Alderweireld, Wan-Bissaka and Digne for a net spend of about £200m.

If offers come in or they can be released, let any of Sanchez, Mata, Martial, Matic or Fred go but try and hold onto everyone else and use the wages saved to give Herrera the wages he deserves as one of the only players we have who looks like he gives a shit.

Use the young talent to plug any gaps further up the field but acknowledge that next season is about sorting out our defence for the next 5 years. I could accept Lindelof and/or Bailly being kept on as squad options but the rest need to be shown the door - a line needs to be redrawn in the sand and the message sent that prolonged underperformance is unacceptable at this club.

De Gea, Romero, Pereira
Wan-Bissaka, Dalot
Koulibaly, De Ligt, Alderweireld, Lindelof, Bailly
Digne, Shaw, Mitchell
McTominay, Garner
Pogba, Herrera, Pereira
Chong, Lingard, Gomes, Rashford
Lukaku, Greenwood

 

[Godfather]

I'm surely going to enjoy the 10 goals this frontline would score in a season.

 

[Jacob]

I agree with one thing, we need to focus on defense first.

 

[diarm]

I'm surely going to enjoy the 10 goals this frontline would score in a season.

I get that but keeping Smalling, Jones, Rojo and Young while signing one centre back and a right back along with Gareth Bale isn't going to see us compete any better. Spend the time and energy fixing the defence this season - then we can sort midfield or the attack next year.

 

[Wheato]

Sell Pogba, Lukaku & DDG and there's a £280m pot of cash for starters.

Other players to move on

Valencia
Mata
Rojo
Young
Jones
Matic
Darmian
Sanchez
Bailly
Herrera

New squad

Goalkeepers
Romeo (He is good enough for a few seasons)
Grant
Pereira

Right backs
Wan Bisakka (Palace)
Matt Doherty (Wolves)

Centre Backs
Koulibaly (Napoli)
alderweireld (Spurs)
Lindeloff
Tuanzebe
Smalling

Left backs
Shaw
Kieran Tierney (Celtic)

Midfielders
Ndombele (Lyon)
Ruben Neves (Wolves)
Milinkovic Savic (Lazio)
Fred
Lingard
Angel Gomez
Pierera
McTominay
Garner


Forwards
Rashford
Martial
Nicolas Pepe (Lille)
Mason Greenwood
Chong

 

[Wumminator]

Sign a right back to replace Young as a starter

Sign a midfielder to replace Matic as a starter

Sign a right winger to replace literally no one as a starter

We’re ten times better alreadyX

 

[littlepeasoup]

I think you vastly overestimate the competency of the powers-that-be at the club these days. We don't make sound footballing decisions, and whilst we've been making all the right sounds about player recruitment this summer, I wouldn't hold my breath.

It's nice to imagine though.

 

[Skills]

How are Liverpool built from the back? They literally bought Salah, Firmino and Mane and got their attack going. Only then did they spunk 80m on Van Djik to plug the gap at the back.

Most greats team are built on their attacks now. You need to get 90+ points to win the league now and you're only going to do that with a great attack. This whole build from the back has been proven wrong again, and again and again. The biggest proof being the last 4 CL winners.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

While I don't agree with all the signings you plan on making I do agree that we need need to do this step by step.

We need to address the cultural issues at the club, unfortunately i think that will involve getting rid of some of our best players as well as the ones who are obviously not good enough.

Most of all what we need is some one with a long term plan who has the know how as to how to implement it, personally I think that starts with hiring a forward thinking innovative director of football, who would would put in place an infrastructure at the club and be given the time and resources to asses every aspect of the club Manger/players/player development/scouting network/ player culture..... the lot. rebuild the team brick by brick over several years, not signing top ageing stars to try and get do it in a hurry.

 

[diarm]

Sign a right back to replace Young as a starter

Sign a midfielder to replace Matic as a starter

Sign a right winger to replace literally no one as a starter

We’re ten times better alreadyX

Still leaves us with Smalling and Jones starting 25-30 games each next season.

We do this every year - fix the most obvious problems we can see but with no cohesive plan. Throw money at the player of the month and then bitch and moan when it doesn't work.

The amount of quality players we've signed in the last 5 years who have turned to shit here is ridiculous. Let's build a team properly and let's start at the back.

 

[Wumminator]

Still leaves us with Smalling and Jones starting 25-30 games each next season.

We do this every year - fix the most obvious problems we can see but with no cohesive plan. Throw money at the player of the month and then bitch and moan when it doesn't work.

The amount of quality players we've signed in the last 5 years who have turned to shit here is ridiculous. Let's build a team properly and let's start at the back.

I don’t think we’ve signed any quality players over the last five years. I think they’re mostly complete shite.

 

[Rake]

We can rebuild step by step but they need to be massive steps. We can't afford to buy 6 top players over 3 years, this is a very slow pace with so many problematic positions.

 

[Skills]

Also if we're going to rebuild step by step what is the point of spunking a world record fee for a defender like Koulibaly who's in his prime now? Surely that's just a complete waste of money and time.

If the idea is to develop bit by bit, buy young players who'll actually be in their prime when the rest of the team is ready.

 

[diarm]

How are Liverpool built from the back? They literally bought Salah, Firmino and Mane and got their attack going. Only then did they spunk 80m on Van Djik to plug the gap at the back.

Most greats team are built on their attacks now. You need to get 90+ points to win the league now and you're only going to do that with a great attack. This whole build from the back has been proven wrong again, and again and again. The biggest proof being the last 4 CL winners.

Van Dijk, Arnold and Robertson are more important to Liverpool than Salah, Firmino and Mane for me. They were the square root of feck all until they "plugged that gap" with Van Dijk.

When you don't have a single defender who can pass a ball properly and lack a single fullback who can cross a ball, it's a bit rich to pin all the blame on your attackers. Robertson and Arnold top the Liverpool assist tables this season. Look at the likes of Marcelo and Carvajal for those last 4 CL wins.

Defence starts at the front and attacking starts from the back. We lack well rounded footballers all over the pitch but particularly in defence.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Without a top DOF, CL, Ole unlikely to be attractive to top players, and most of the other top clubs looking to spend big, we'll be left picking up the scraps this summer, so it'll be a case of who is available, rather than us having any sort of strategy.

And as we all know managers just do not have the luxury of taking things 'step by step' nowadays, reality is that if Ole doesn't get us going quickly next season then he'll be toast, just like the rest, so he should rat out the wasters pronto, and get Ed to throw as much as possible at it, and just hope something clicks quickly.

 

[diarm]

I don’t think we’ve signed any quality players over the last five years. I think they’re mostly complete shite.

Players like Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Sanchez, Pogba, Martial, Matic, Fred, Memphis and Di Maria were playing consistently good football before they joined us. A few of those have left and played well in good teams since.

Also if we're going to rebuild step by step what is the point of spunking a world record fee for a defender like Koulibaly who's in his prime now? Surely that's just a complete waste of money and time.

If the idea is to develop bit by bit, buy young players who'll actually be in their prime when the rest of the team is ready.

Because you don't develop players by throwing a load of kids in together with nobody to learn from and beside.

 

[Wumminator]

Players like Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Sanchez, Pogba, Martial, Matic, Fred, Memphis and Di Maria were playing consistently good football before they joined us. A few of those have left and played well in good teams since.



Because you don't develop players by throwing a load of kids in together with nobody to learn from and beside.

Exactly one has been good. Di Maria. And he was a lazy prick when he was here

 

[diarm]

Exactly one has been good. Di Maria. And he was a lazy prick when he was here

Depay has done well and Schneiderlin hasn't. The rest still play for us and Schweinsteiger died of old age.

 

[lysglimt]

Hopefully this game will prove to be best thing that has happened for a long time - because today some of them showed they don't want to be here, so it's time to grant their wishes.

 

[Skills]

Players like Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Sanchez, Pogba, Martial, Matic, Fred, Memphis and Di Maria were playing consistently good football before they joined us. A few of those have left and played well in good teams since.



Because you don't develop players by throwing a load of kids in together with nobody to learn from and beside.

So what's his motivation to join us if he can join a more competitive, much more ambitious club than us who can offer the same type of money we can offer?

 

[Ciddy]

It’s going to be interesting to genuinely see who we can convince to come here this summer. The usual names being banded about in almost every other thread might not want to come to this shit show right now which means our targets might have to change.

Clearly Ole wants players who work hard and that alone cheers me up. There are a number of players I’ve been unhappy with over the past few years even when we’ve been on a good run. The flair players that simply don’t work hard enough. It’s masked when the team is winning but boy does it show when things aren’t going well.

Many teams have proven that buying 6-7 players simply doesn’t work. I think we’ll end up buying 4-5. We need a leader. Simply as that. Someone to take control when things aren’t going well on the pitch. I honestly don’t know who this is right now but I think it’s the most important signing we’ll make. Preferably in the centre of Midfield.

We need a commanding CB. A World Class CB. Nothing less in this position.

One more experienced signing. The other one or two can be in the younger mould, but we need experience. That way we can also start using some of the promising youth we have.

 

[In Rainbows]

We need to help out the spine of the team.

CB - De Ligt, Tuanzebe, Lindelof, Smalling, Bailly
CM - DM (not on his last legs), Pogba, Gomes, Garner, McTominay
ST - Jovic, Greenwood, Rashford
RW - Sancho
RB

Jones > Tuanzebe
Darmian > Laird
Rojo > O'Connor
Valencia > Greenwood
Sanchez > Chong
Mata > out

Get rid of a lot of the deadwood and replace them with our young players. This will help us get our wage bill back as we will surely need to spend a lot on incoming players. I mean just look at how much money is saved just by that transition and are we actually losing anything of value?

Bring in absolute quality and have our youngsters provide the depth. Although the youngsters aren't as good as the depth we lose, they're far cheaper, and are only replacing players who aren't playing much. There is seriously so much waste with our depth.

 

[Jacob]

Signings in order;
RB
CB
CB
DM
RW
CM

I truly believe we need 3 new starting defenders. Shore up the back first with world class players to stop the leakage of unnecessary and costly goals.

 

[Distracted Steward]

No matter how well resourced, a rebuild spins its wheels without a clear viable strategic vision and top to bottom proper execution. The structures and culture are not in place for that yet. I hope the club doesn’t bleed its wealth until the deeper changes are made.

At this point, I am more interested in seeing the club reformed into a well run juggernaut than any trophy on offer for the next few years. I’ve given up on muscling back into the elite. It’s a growing job at this point that requires some painful recognition, patience and excellence behind the scenes.

 

[diarm]

So what's his motivation to join us if he can join a more competitive, much more ambitious club than us who can offer the same type of money we can offer?

To be a key part of turning around one of the biggest clubs in the world. He'd immediately become one of the key players at the club and taking a structured, well planned approach to rebuilding the club doesn't mean we're less ambitious. I would wager that adding two centre backs who can pass and two fullbacks who can cross to the current side as is, would add at least 15-20 extra goals a season.

 

[0le]

The players confirmed to be leaving over the summer:
Valencia

The players likely to leave are:
Darmian, Herrera, Mata

The players that may leave:
Rojo, Bailly

I don't think anyone else in the club is leaving, at least from the rumours I've read.

Lets say then, that four players leave. This means three to four players need to come in. I think the club will sign a winger to replace Herrera and/or Mata with a view to playing Lingard more centrally. That leaves one or two more signings. I think the club will fail to sign a CB and therefore Tuanzebe will likely be promoted. This will probably end up being a blessing in disguise. I think we will also sign a RB, but I'm not sure who.

So the players in are:
Winger, RB, Tuanzebe

The following summer, unless we see a drastic change in fortunes for these players, the following will likely be sold:
Lukaku, Sanchez, (any from the list above except Herrera if he stays), Young (maybe)

De Gea and Pogba may leave depending on their contract situation, but it'll be sorted out in the next Jan window.

In this second transfer window, we will probably look to sign an attacking player.

 

[redshaw]

Your line up is probably quite unrealistic but we'll see soon.

De Ligt is wanted by lots of top clubs who are going places
Pogba, De Gea, Lukaku, don't see them here next season if good offers come in.
Koulibaly, club might shy away from such a huge fee.

We need to start finding players a year or two before they get quoted for 70-120 million.

Sancho went to Dortmund for 8 million, Koulibaly went to Napoli for 6.5 million. I could go on about Son at Spurs, Perisic at Inter, Maguire, Toby. They were spotted and bought for peanuts. There's value out there, we just need to rebuild the club is all.

 

[bosnian_red]

Part of me is starting to think that the best thing for us as a club is to miss out on top 4. There's the worry that if we get top 4, we won't spend that much, that we'll be pretty content and do small rebuilds rather then see it as the big job that it needs to be. We miss out on the top 4, everyone's wages drop by 25% if that report is to be believed, those who think they're too big for the club (but failed to perform anyway) can sod off, those who don't want to be here can sod off, cut all the players who will be gone in a year anyway and just start over. Part of me can see that happening if we miss out on top 4, and it's something that wouldn't happen if we made top 4. So I'm conflicted right now.

 

[Valencia's Left Foot]

We're not going to sell 20 players this summer and sign another 20 to replace them so how do we sort this out without throwing more good money after bad with no focus and long term plan?

I reckon we should focus on an area we can fix in one summer and put all our efforts into that. Then do the same for another area next year and so on.

Most great teams (Peps teams are the exceptions to the rule) are built from the back and you only have to look at Liverpool this season to see how Van Dijk and a pair of quality fullbacks have changed their team. Our defence has been a joke for a long, long time and it's time for a purge.

Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Valencia, Darmian, Young, Bailly, Lindelof are not good enough to start for this club. In the case of Valencia and Young, they never have been but certainly not now that age has caught up with them. Sell or release those 8 and replace them with De Ligt, Koulibaly, Alderweireld, Wan-Bissaka and Digne for a net spend of about £200m.

If offers come in or they can be released, let any of Sanchez, Mata, Martial, Matic or Fred go but try and hold onto everyone else and use the wages saved to give Herrera the wages he deserves as one of the only players we have who looks like he gives a shit.

Use the young talent to plug any gaps further up the field but acknowledge that next season is about sorting out our defence for the next 5 years. I could accept Lindelof and/or Bailly being kept on as squad options but the rest need to be shown the door - a line needs to be redrawn in the sand and the message sent that prolonged underperformance is unacceptable at this club.

De Gea, Romero, Pereira
Wan-Bissaka, Dalot
Koulibaly, De Ligt, Alderweireld, Lindelof, Bailly
Digne, Shaw, Mitchell
McTominay, Garner
Pogba, Herrera, Pereira
Chong, Lingard, Gomes, Rashford
Lukaku, Greenwood

Send marital and cash to Dortmund for Sancho.

 

[Valencia's Left Foot]

Your line up is probably quite unrealistic but we'll see soon.

De Ligt is wanted by lots of top clubs who are going places
Pogba, De Gea, Lukaku, don't see them here next season if good offers come in.
Koulibaly, club might shy away from such a huge fee.

We need to start finding players a year or two before they get quoted for 70-120 million.

Sancho went to Dortmund for 8 million, Koulibaly went to Napoli for 6.5 million. I could go on about Son at Spurs, Perisic at Inter, Maguire, Toby. They were spotted and bought for peanuts. There's value out there, we just need to rebuild the club is all.

Agreed. We need to stop trying to play the galaxticos game because we always end up with guys who are a tier or three below galacticos players but for galacticos money.

 

[Sandikan]

Signings in order;
RB
CB
CB
DM
RW
CM

I truly believe we need 3 new starting defenders. Shore up the back first with world class players to stop the leakage of unnecessary and costly goals.

I could still see us lining up with Smalling and Jones way more often than we should whoever we bought in

 

[Sandikan]

Sell Pogba, Lukaku & DDG and there's a £280m pot of cash for starters.

Other players to move on

Valencia
Mata
Rojo
Young
Jones
Matic
Darmian
Sanchez
Bailly
Herrera

New squad

Goalkeepers
Romeo (He is good enough for a few seasons)
Grant
Pereira

Right backs
Wan Bisakka (Palace)
Matt Doherty (Wolves)

Centre Backs
Koulibaly (Napoli)
alderweireld (Spurs)
Lindeloff
Tuanzebe
Smalling

Left backs
Shaw
Kieran Tierney (Celtic)

Midfielders
Ndombele (Lyon)
Ruben Neves (Wolves)
Milinkovic Savic (Lazio)
Fred
Lingard
Angel Gomez
Pierera
McTominay
Garner


Forwards
Rashford
Martial
Nicolas Pepe (Lille)
Mason Greenwood
Chong

Moving 13 players out in one summer

 

[Charles Miller]

You can defend well even with average players based on trainning and tactics. Its better to out all the money in a wc front three first.

 

[JMack1234]

We're miles aways at the moment.

All I want next season is to some improvement in the side. We need to get rid a lot of the old school and the dead wood and start bringing in some younger more dynamic players and start doing some bleeding pressing.

 

[Strachans Cigar]

We don’t necessarily need lots more big budget signings. Look at Ajax. Lets pilfer their coaches & scouts & get them to work on our young guns, hee hee

I’d only keep from this seasons squad:

Romero
Grant

Dalot
Smalling
Lindelof
Shaw

Pereira
Fred
McT
Garner
Gomes
Greenwood
Lingard

Chong
Lukaku
Rashford

Lingard & Rashford I’d Keep for now, as being homegrown, at least they have some semblance of what the club means & it’s ethos & whatever their faults, lack of effort isn’t (usually) one of them. Not really impressed with Lukaku but I’d keep him just for now.

The mercenaries need to go & not be replaced with more of the same