Redcafe Sheep Draft - crappycraperson vs Pippa

[Moby]

The aim of this poll is to decide the winner in this fantasy game contested between two sides assembled through the method of drafting. For the purpose of this game, all players would be considered as being at their respective peaks. I invite all posters to go through the formations, tactics and arguments that will follow in the thread and kindly leave their vote. Thanks.

crappycraperson's tactics

TEAM CRAPPY

Formation: Homage to classic Premiership 442

Defense: Ashley Cole, THE best left back in premiership era. As a defender has kept likes of Ronaldo quiet while has shown his attacking prowess by linking up with likes of Pires and Henry.
Martin Keown and Pallister will be perfect CB partners. Latter one part of highly successful partnership with Bruce. And here is how highly peter, someone who has watched Arsenal for more years than any of us, rates Keown

All time Arsenal 11 according to him -

Arsenal:

Seaman
Anderson Keown O'Leary Cole
Fabregas Vieira
Pires Bergkamp Overmars
Henry

Midfield: Box to box, midfielders that have defined the premiership era. I have one of the best in Patrick Vieira in my team. Make no mistake, he won't simply be shielding the back four but playing his natural role. A player who went toe to toe with Keane in his prime and was the rock on which Arsenal won couple of its titles. Then there is Lampard, a largely underrated figure in this forum. Time and time again, he has come up with big performances for Chelsea be it in league or CL. Even if you take out his penalties and FKs, he racks up an impressive tally of goals for a MF.

Wingers: Pires- one of the best wingers ever. Here he will get to combine with Vieira and Cole once again. Someone who can stretch the play on the left, cut in inside, get on the end of the balls to score, create chances for others. Was FWA player of the year in 2001/2 and made the PFA team 3 years running as well. Kanchelskis will provide width on the right and stretch the play as much as possible. Will also be helping out Xavier on the right. A forgotten player but was a key player in 94 team. Since many would probably underate him, here is a trailer of what he is capable of-

Spoiler

Forwards: Drogba, arguably the best striker you can ask for when it comes to someone occupying both center backs at once. Do not mistake him for a battering ram, he has got the lot- bullet of a header, great shot from distance, free kicks.. heck I have even seen him deliver great crosses from wide positions.

Then there is.. the star of the team - Eric Cantona. It seems odd to say this on a United form, but he he does not gets his fair dues on here as a player. Focus is always on his personality and the impact it had on United's rise. Solely as a football player, he is the perfect no.10 you can have in a 442. He is the lynch pin of my side to add that extra body in MF when needed, link with everyone on the team, feed ball to others, move upfront when another presence is needed.


Key Points about Match up

GOALS! - I have gone with an attack minded team on purpose. The aim is not to nick a 1-0 game but to out score the opposition at any cost. A team with Drogba, Cantona, Lampard, Pires, Kanchelskis screams goals to me.

Match winners - Drogba, Cantona and Lampard. Three players used to scoring goals in big games, true winners for their team. United fans will know how many times Cantona popped up to score a winner when we needed it the most. Both Lampard and Drogba have a goal in CL final among many others.

Fast paced transition- Be it in possession or counter attack, the team will be looking to execute its goal quickly. The aim will be to move the ball about with pace and overwhelm the opposition with numbers. Lampard, Cole, Vieira, Kanchelskis are great when it comes to bombing forward while Pires, Cantona can play the ball quickly as well without dwelling on it for too long. Having someone like Drogba about will make sure that there will always be space for my attack to play with

Opposition :

- Raul and Guilt are a mis-match of a pair for me. Raul is not a no.10 nut someone who is better suited playing off a main striker a role played by likes of Morientes and Ronaldo at Real during his pomp. Guilt himself played off someone like Basten.

- Desailly and Thiago Silva. Both accomplished defenders, but I don't see either fit to tackle someone like Drogba.


Cole + Pires vs Donadoni + Angloma - Cole would have no issues dealing with Donadoni, he has seen much better wingers in his time at both Arsenal and Chelsea. One other other I don't see the opposition two living with the Cole-Pires combo on the left. Pires has a record of 1 in 3 goals at Arsenal. Cole is one of the best when it comes to covering the whole length of his flank. Add to it link up with Lampard, Vieira and Cantona and essentially opposition would be completly overrun on that flank.

Preempting some questions -

Role of Vieira- I can see some people raising concerns about not partnering Vieira with a more defensive minded midfielder. Would it leave my defense exposed at times? Maybe. But it would also mean that opposition will have to contend that many players when I am attacking. If Keane-Scholes is a great combo for 442, then I see no reason why Lampard-Vieira can not be as well. If anything Lampard is better when it comes to defensive duties than Scholesy.

Xavier vs Giggs - ofcourse it is a major drawback for my side. Nothing I can do about it. CBs will have to help out, as well as someone like Vieira and Kanchelskis at times. It does put pressure on them but that's what happens in football matches. Giggs has come up against worse right backs and not necessarily has it always resulted in a match winning issue.

Team crappycraperson

Team Pippa

​

​

 

[Moby]

Pippa's tactics

My team is simply more balanced and has stronger partnerships which gives a better platform for success than the opposition's team. Natural partnerships all-around (Irwin-Giggs, Angloma-Desailly, Desailly-Donadoni-Gullit) offer something more substantial than individual firepower, which my team has already.

Crappy will most likely play a midfield two of Lampard-Vieira. Lampard is at his best with fewer defensive responsibilities, as the most attacking in a three-man midfield. Vieira is at his best when given a box-to-box role, something not possible if he is supposed to be the deepest and most defensive midfielder in the team.

My style of play will be quite vertical, using the wings constantly with the fullback-wing partnerships of Angloma-Donadoni and Irwin-Giggs. Obviously with someone like Abel Xavier on the right, more pressure will go through that wing with Denis Irwin and Ryan Giggs.

Sousa will be able to spread the play from deep with his long passes, and there is always a danger with Raúl up front. Not only is he deceptively quick, he has a superb first touch and a million ways to score a goal. As Santiago Cañizares once said, Raúl is unreadable in front of goal. Donadoni and Giggs will regularly be able to float in balls from the wing, and Raúl is certainly able to score some fantastic headers. He scored a couple great ones in Clásicos for instance.

The centre point of the team will no doubt be Ruud Gullit, one of the best and most complete footballers of all time. He can bring down all sorts of aerial balls, play with the ball to feet, start attacks off-the-ball by creating channels for movement...he will be instrumental in the attacking cohesiveness of the team, especially with traditional wingers in the line-up.Crappy doesn't have a player who can stop The Black Tulip.

I am extremely confident in my defence, even though Crappy has two great forwards in Cantona and Drogba, flanked by Pirés and Kanchelskis. Thiago Silva and Marcel Desailly are both Milan greats and are not only superb defenders, but good footballers. Desailly and Silva are certainly one of the best central defence pairs in this draft, I would have loved to see them together in real life. Desailly is recognised as one of the best holding midfielders of all time, and one of the best central defenders in the history of the Premier League. Protected by two deep midfielders in Baggio and Sousa, there will be little space to create opportunities in attack. I don't think the wings are all too vulnerable as well, with Giggs and Donadoni...

Can a high defensive line be played? Certainly, with very fast central defenders in Silva and Desailly. Playing my defence further up the pitch allows the space in between the lines to be limited, so there is not often space and time on the ball for actions. Drogba is not a threat with pace, which plays well into the high-line concept. With pressure coming from the two versatile forwards and two hard-working wingers, creating clear opportunities will be made more difficult. None of my players look to avoid being given a heavier workload, especially in defence and midfield. There is a right amount of graft and craft in the team to succeed.

Obviously the sheep has to be the one targeted, he is the weakest player out of both teams. I assume he (Abel Xavier) will be playing at right back, matched up against Ryan Giggs. The way I see it, if Xavier has to match up nominally against Giggs, there will certainly be trouble. If there is a "safety net" given to support Xavier on the right, this leaves weaknesses throughout the rest of the team, holes that need to be filled. And they will be filled by the opposition.

It looks like a more defensive 4-4-2, with deep-lying forwards and deep-lying central midfielders. It will be very difficult to breach a defence like this, and with attackers like Raúl, Gullit, Donadoni, Giggs, there is every chance of a goal, or multiple goals coming in.

 

[Moby]

Both writeups couldn't fit into one post so I had to post the second one in a separate post. Hope that's fine.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I like Vieira/Lampard better, but then I also like Giggs/Irwin. If not for the obvious, this would be a tiebreaker!

 

[NM]

Giggs vs Xavier will be a trainwreck. That alone might decide this one tbh.

 

[sajeev]

i think this will end up being one-sided (since we can see a winner), despite the fact that in reality the match will be tighter.

i will wait a while to see how the tactics evolve

 

[Cutch]

The sheep will prove costly

 

[antohan]

It's unlucky of crappy to have got a sheep probably in the worst position possible for this game. He certainly gives pippa a game everywhere else on the pitch and has a better midfield pair, but I can't see it making up for that glaring mismatch. Shame really, a kinder draw and he could have sorted it for the next round.

 

[sajeev]

ok, how bad was abel xavier? i remember him being decent in euro 2000

 

[prarek]

I think Lampard in midfied(without the likes of Essien/Ballack/Makelele behind him) would get run over despite Viera's presence. Have to go with Pippa.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Homage apart, put Vieira as DM there, play for draw and penalties.

 

[Balu]

Crappy got so unlucky with this draw. His team is quality and he maybe could have gone through against some of the other teams despite the sheep, there are few teams with exceptional wingers in the draft. I also think it's great, that he still spend so much time for his write-up with probably little hope to win the game.

 

[antohan]

ok, how bad was abel xavier? i remember him being decent in euro 2000

He wasn't anywhere near as terrible as most of the other sheep. A bit limited, occasionally rash and not particularly intelligent in the way he went about things. Would get by in your average game but there's no question Giggs would expose him and with Raúl and Gullit in the box it wouldn't be a pretty sight.

I agree with you overall both sides are quite close, but that mismatch will be exploited successfully to decide the game.

 

[crappycraperson]

9-1 already fecking hell.

Pippa has a great side so do not want use the sheep as an excuse but this is not even a match up due to it. Shame

I am gonna change the tactics now since people won't see past Giggs vs Xavier!

 

[Balu]

9-1 already fecking hell.

Pippa has a great side so do not want use the sheep as an excuse but this is not even a match up due to it. Shame

I am gonna change the tactics now since people won't see past Giggs vs Xavier!

I'm still trying, but to be honest, it's fecking difficult.

 

[crappycraperson]

Do people think something like this would even work ..

 

[NM]

Do people think something like this would even work ..

Vieira is not a DM. A Cole is not a CB. Still a massacre.

 

[Pippa]

It's unlucky of crappy to have got a sheep probably in the worst position possible for this game. He certainly gives pippa a game everywhere else on the pitch and has a better midfield pair, but I can't see it making up for that glaring mismatch. Shame really, a kinder draw and he could have sorted it for the next round.

I don't think the midfield pair is better, when you look at how they are being played. Vieira's best period came when he could move up the pitch and join in attacks like a real box-to-box midfielder in a 4-4-2. Lampard's best period came as the most attacking midfielder in a 4-3-3, so to have them both holding a two-man midfield wouldn't be the best option. Compared to Sousa and Baggio who are placed in a position to excel, I would go as far to say that my midfield pair is superior in this context...

Paulo Sousa's profile, EURO 2000 - http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/world/2000/euro2000/players/manuelpaulosousa.html

Despite having his career interrupted by a series of injuries, Sousa remains a key player for Portugal, with the ability to bring the best out of the rest of the team. A genuine midfield general, he is currently with Serie A side Parma, following a winter loan move from Internazionale. After a successful spell at Benfica, he was snapped up by Juventus, where he won a Scudetto and the Champions' League in 1996. He left the Delle Alpi that summer to join Borussia Dortmund and helped his new side beat Juve to claim the 1997 European crown. He moved on from Dortmund after some renewed injury problems, and found himself on the sidelines at Inter due to their packed roster and more injury problems, but his move to the Tardini has rejuvenated a player who has been written off many times before.

 

[antohan]

Do people think something like this would even work ..

No, you keep all the weknesses and lose all the strengths. Terrible idea.

I think your only hope would be really pushing the case for some of the stars in your team as it started but it's probably beyond reach now.

 

[crappycraperson]

I don't think the midfield pair is better, when you look at how they are being played. Vieira's best period came when he could move up the pitch and join in attacks like a real box-to-box midfielder in a 4-4-2. Lampard's best period came as the most attacking midfielder in a 4-3-3, so to have them both holding a two-man midfield wouldn't be the best option. Compared to Sousa and Baggio who are placed in a position to excel, I would go as far to say that my midfield pair is superior in this context...

Paulo Sousa's profile, EURO 2000 - http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/world/2000/euro2000/players/manuelpaulosousa.html

The midfield pair is optimum for my game plan. The comparison with Keane-Scholes is very valid. When paired with latter, Keane hardly played as a DM. Same would be true for Vieira. Scholes was even more hopeless with his tackling before he made that switch to deep lying playmaker post from 2006. Lampard in comparison puts in a much better defensive shift, he will ofcourse be looking to attack the box as well. I did concede that this will leave my defense exposed at times but my strategy here is to out score the opponent.

 

[antohan]

I don't think the midfield pair is better, when you look at how they are being played. Vieira's best period came when he could move up the pitch and join in attacks like a real box-to-box midfielder in a 4-4-2. Lampard's best period came as the most attacking midfielder in a 4-3-3, so to have them both holding a two-man midfield wouldn't be the best option. Compared to Sousa and Baggio who are placed in a position to excel, I would go as far to say that my midfield pair is superior in this context...

Paulo Sousa's profile, EURO 2000 - http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/world/2000/euro2000/players/manuelpaulosousa.html

I loved Sousa, but more as a Pirlo/pivot role player, not in this setting. I don't recall Baggio being at his best in a midfield set up like this one either. Off the top of my head they were far more defensive setups and certainly not 4-4-2s with two wingers. I don't hold that against him though, an underrated midfieder if anything.

All in all though, I think Lampard and Vieira will be far more familiar with the system they are being deployed in.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

Sorry Crappy, you bounced back from three sheep really well but with this specific sheep plus this awful draw, against the favorite post re-drafting Pippa, and you had no chance. You really did a fine job bouncing from the three sheep though...

 

[kps88]

Tough luck on the draw, Crappy. Despite the sheep, you would have stood a decent chance against some of the other teams.

 

[Moby]

Gone with Pippa. While the sheep obviously played a role in the decision, even without it I like Pippa's team more. I'm not a big fan of Lampard in a 2 man midfield, not only did he usually play in a 3 man midfield, but his main strengths were those perfectly timed runs, positioning, goal threat and link up in and around the box. In his current role he'd need to distribute the ball a lot more precisely and accurately, not to mention more frequently while also putting a good shift in defense which isn't gonna bring out his best, imo.

But anyway yeah it wouldn't have been this one sided without the sheep. Fair play to crappy, he put in a great effort in the draft and it's raelly great that you made an excellent tactical writeup despite knowing that you would have to play the sheep. Really admire your spirit.

It's just unlucky on your part, it's a tremendous left flank that Pippa has and something that would give him an advantage against most teams here.

 

[sullydnl]

Sorry Crappy, this was a really unlucky draw.

 

[Jayvin]

This match should be a lot closer, it's really quite even across the park. Pippa has the better defence, crappy the better midfield pair. The wingers are a fairly even match and while Gullit-Raul looks good on paper, I actually think Cantona-Drogba is a more natural strike pairing and a better fit. I'd prefer Raul deeper with another centreforward ahead of him.

Unfortunate for crappy with the Giggs-Xavier match up, but that's really the only area where I see him losing out convincingly, everywhere else it is fairly even.

 

[Isotope]

Donadoni can also tuck in to midfield, and Giggs joining in the attack. So it's not a true 4-4-2.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Abel Xavier is just too good. Best player on and off the pitch!

Voted for crappy here