RedCafe Sheep Draft - Edgar Allan Pillow vs Snipers Breath

[Moby]

The aim of this poll is to decide the winner in this fantasy game contested between two sides assembled through the method of drafting. For the purpose of this game, all players would be considered as being at their respective peaks. I invite all posters to go through the formations, tactics and arguments that will follow in the thread and kindly leave their vote. Thanks.

Edgar Allan Pillow's Tactics​

A solid back 4 of indomitable Sanchis and a dominant Lucio flanked by Jorginho and the all time great Maldini. This is further beefed up by the no nonsense shielding of Cambiasso. Extra support from the intelligent Alonso. More than enough to take care of the attack.

Cambiasso solid base with Alonso's creativity and long passes added from the bottom of the diamond with the Mastero in a 'slightly deeper than usual' AM at the top of the diamond linked by the classy Centre Midfielder in Ballack completes the midfield. Ballack's spine in addition to his goal scoring ability perfectly compliments to threat added by Rui Costa knits the midfield together.

Baggio & Shevchekno needs no introduction here. Both are all round players capable of creating chances for the other and scoring goals themselves. Shevchenko here plays a more traidtional striker who will be a threat around and inside the box. Baggio roaming all round the area, dribbling past defenders and scoring classics himself. The goal scoring ability of Rui Costa and Ballack should not be forgotten and when in attack there is threat from all over my team.

Advantages:

Lack of a proper Defensive Midfielder in opponents team. Pirlo is more of a deep lying playmaker than a combative DM. The intelligence of Rui Costa + Ballack and lethality of Shevchenko + Baggio is more than enough to score goals.

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PLAYER PROFILES

Team Edgar Allan Pillow

Spoiler: Starting/Initial Team

Team Snipers Breath

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Snipers Breath's tactics​

Tactics

A very fluid 4-3-3. with Gerrard playing the role he excelled at in his 06/07 Liverpool season. Formation essentially allows me to play with 4 Cms, but still maintain width with Di Maria hugging the touchline on the left, something which my opponent doesn't have.

The midfield 3 consists of 3 incredibly technically gifted midfielders, Aimar, Gascogine and Pirlo, could all pass, could all dribble and most importantly could all retain the ball, and this will provide the key in me winning, with a midfield 3 supported by Gerrard moving into the middle as well, we essentially monopolize possession.

The next stage after that is providing the final ball, a quality which everyone of my midfield excels in, even my DM in Pirlo is very adept at splitting open a defence, and has seen in the past, it can be at times much easier to stop a number 10 playing in the hole, than it is to stop a number 10 playing in a DM position. This is essentially what Pirlo offers, the creativity and guile of the best number 10's, only from a deeper position, where he can be afforded more space and dictate the game.

Moving onto the defence, in Cannavaro and Samuel, you've got to stalwarts of Italian football. Serie A is known for its defences, and in Cannavaro you've got an incredible leader and personality, away from that though he was an uncompromising defender, both him and Samuel help adjust the balance in regards to my less robust Cms, as they were both defenders first and foremost. It really is a a partnership that will bring out the best in both players, to put it in perspective Cannavaro lead Italy to the world cup playing with a lesser version of Samuel in Materrazi, just imagine how good they will be together.



The full back provide help provide width, the imperious Zambrotta is a player renowned for his attacking ability and stamina, this will allow Gerrard to move into the middle at times when needed, the balance there is perfect because on the other side you've got a less attacking minded left back in Lizarazu playing alongside an out and out winger in Di Maria.



Who will emerge victorious?

The midfield battle will be key, some splendid players in both sides, and while i feel Edgars midfield may be more robust, i definitely back my midfield to control the game in terms of possession. However if the midfield battle does prove to be a stalemate, i've got the extra bonus having a dynamic winger like Di Maria, the only out and out winger on the pitch who can cause havoc. In the end he isn't the best player on the pitch, but he may just be the most important, the dynamism of Di Maria, and the heavy thrusts from midfield from the likes of Gascoigne and Gerrard would still allow me to be a threat on the counter.



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[Jayvin]

First things first.. Snipers, put Samuel LCB and Cannavaro RCB

 

[Jayvin]

Few thoughts:

3 centrebacks seems like overkill against 1 striker

Di Maria and Lizarazu might be able to get some joy up against Jorginho, but then again Edgar has plenty of spare CBs to cover...

Snipers team would be glorious when he has the ball, but who's going to win it back when they lose it?

EDIT: Nice write ups by the way. Concise and to the point

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@Jayvin


Our assumptions was made on expectation of a different formation. So the tactics write up is a bit outdated


But still, since I get only one substitution, let me hold on to this formation for a while, before switching...

Key Points as mentioned above:

(1) Lack of a DM. Pirlo is a deep lying playmaker and against Ballack of 2002 + Baggio + Shevchenko, it will be a massacre. His midfield is too porus. Players operating far from each other. A defense splitting pass from Alonso will reach my midfielder quicker for a lightning counter. again with a attacking Baggio, Sheva and support from Ballack I can score more than him.
(2) I have more width on my wings through the full backs than he has with Di Maria. With Lucio, Jorginho, Cambiasso and Alsonso on the line, there's no way Di Maria can get through. Pappin is essentially isolated and taken care of by Sanchis. I cannot see him getting any regular service here.

Edit: In fact the back 5 + Cambiasso should be enough to counter any threat. Rest are free to attack. Xabi being a deep player will always be available for extra cover, that I don't think is necessary...but still available!

 

[kps88]

Early points to Sniper for stumping Edgar and making the opening line of this tactics seem mental.

Who is on your bench, Edgar?

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Rui Costa

 

[Cutch]

I'm probably being pedantic but think Sniper has Cannavaro and Samuel on the wrong side.

Also, who's his sub? Not sure if I like where Aimar is positioned, would prefer him in behind Papin

 

[Cutch]

Rui Costa

Your first pick wasn't it?

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Also, who's his sub? Not sure if I like where Aimar is positioned, would prefer him in behind Papin

Your first pick wasn't it?

Sniper's sub is R. Falcao

Different tactical expectations made Rui Costa extra to the team. Though he is already warming up by the touchline

 

[Gio]

I'm probably being pedantic but think Sniper has Cannavaro and Samuel on the wrong side.

Also, who's his sub? Not sure if I like where Aimar is positioned, would prefer him in behind Papin

Ditto these.

I'm not sure why Rui Costa is on the bench. His and Baggio's creativity in behind Shevchenko could be the difference.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I'm not sure why Rui Costa is on the bench. His and Baggio's creativity in behind Shevchenko could be the difference.

Understand, and he is a part of the backup plan. But I'm holding on to this formation for now is because the 3 man defence allows Jorginho/Branco to add a much relished width to the team. Their defensive requirements are mostly taken care of, so they can support the midfield more! Jorginho may have Di Maria to handle (though he has Alonso/Lucio backing him), but Branco will be a sure outlet for a counter.

 

[Cutch]

Cambiasso is a bit pointless at present but if you don't want to make a sub too early i'd push him up alongside Alonso and then make Ballack and Baggio slightly more advanced

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Possibility:

But will still wait for a bit before changing!

 

[Moby]

The basic flaw like others have said in Snipers team is the lack of midfield cover. Pirlo's used to playing next to two workhorses both at Milan and Juve, and him alone as the defensive midfield option is pretty lightweight. Both Baggio and Ballack can occupy that area and hurt that team.

Can only see one winner in this one whichever formation Edgar chooses.

 

[kps88]

Even if you don't make the change, you still seem too strong for Sniper.

EDIT: What Aldo said

 

[Moby]

 

[Cutch]

Possibility:

But will still wait for a bit before changing!

Cambiasso's on the wrong side now, and not sure what you're doing with Shevchenko

 

[kps88]

and not sure what you're doing with Shevchenko

He's trying to outfox Courtois' starting position but has gotten his sides mixed up.

 

[Theon]

Hmm I think both of these teams have some pretty big flaws. The tactical move by Sniper not playing two up top really has screwed with Edgar though - in his own words he acknowledges this won't be at all effective so there is a big plus for Sniper there!

Again a 3 man defence is ONLY good against 2 strikers.

I did mention this is the main thread too, a 3 man defence is only effective if your opponent is playing 2 attackers. Against less, it will become a liability as the team is vulnerable to pressing elsewhere.

In general I don't agree with Edgar and think he is wrong there, but in this instance there is no doubt whatsoever the three man backline is a waste of time for a few reasons. Firstly it isn't as if Sniper's best player is up front - Papin was a fine forward but he isn't Ronaldo and a three man back line to deal with him is a huge overkill.

Where is Snipers best player? Down the other end of pitch, controlling things and spraying the ball about for fun. You've vacated the space that Pirlo operates in in order to boost the back line against just one forward - IMO that is a bad move.

Aldo is spot on though - Pirlo tends to need work horses of some sort next to him because he was never an all action player in that sense. He needs protection and doesn't have it here. That said, I don't think this set up from Edgar will take as much advantage from this as was possible.

 

[Cutch]

Edgar's making a meal of this with his lineup but i'm getting my vote out of the way early here too, think he's too strong right through the spine.

 

[Gio]

Cambiasso's on the wrong side now, and not sure what you're doing with Shevchenko

Shev is now occupying Baggio's favoured position.

 

[Snipers Breath]

The basic flaw like others have said in Snipers team is the lack of midfield cover. Pirlo's used to playing next to two workhorses both at Milan and Juve, and him alone as the defensive midfield option is pretty lightweight. Both Baggio and Ballack can occupy that area and hurt that team.

Can only see one winner in this one whichever formation Edgar chooses.

He played alongside Gattuso, who was a workhorse. Seedorf isn't anymore of a workhorse than Gerrard.

The midfield could be said to be porous but i feel the numbers in there makes up for that.

 

[antohan]

Cambiasso's on the wrong side now, and not sure what you're doing with Shevchenko

He is overloading a wrong-footed Samuel. Clever.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Hmm I think both of these teams have some pretty big flaws. The tactical move by Sniper not playing two up top really has screwed with Edgar though - in his own words he acknowledges this won't be at all effective so there is a big plus for Sniper there!

In general I don't agree with Edgar and think he is wrong there, but in this instance there is no doubt whatsoever the three man backline is a waste of time for a few reasons. Firstly it isn't as if Sniper's best player is up front - Papin was a fine forward but he isn't Ronaldo and a three man back line to deal with him is a huge overkill.

Where is Snipers best player? Down the other end of pitch, controlling things and spraying the ball about for fun. You've vacated the space that Pirlo operates in in order to boost the back line against just one forward - IMO that is a bad move.

Aldo is spot on though - Pirlo tends to need work horses of some sort next to him because he was never an all action player in that sense. He needs protection and doesn't have it here. That said, I don't think this set up from Edgar will take as much advantage from this as was possible.

I did mention this in my previous post. I did not expect this formation and so mine was not a exact counter. Yes, I can build a better one, but that means a substitution and I'm not hitting that till panic time.

Still with a back line 'overkill', Ballack now freed of some defensive duties cna keep Pirlo occupied, leaving other to carry on with their job.

 

[Theon]

I did mention this in my previous post. I did not expect this formation and so mine was not a exact counter. Yes, I can build a better one, but that means a substitution and I'm not hitting that till panic time.

Still with a back line 'overkill', Ballack now freed of some defensive duties cna keep Pirlo occupied, leaving other to carry on with their job.

I don't think you have much hope of stopping Pirlo with this team.

You can stick Ballack on him and to be fair that might work, but it leaves you terribly exposed elsewhere - With Ballack trying to press or stop Pirlo (which is a monumental task) there is so much space elsewhere on the park, in the instances Pirlo just drops his shoulder and turns he'll be spraying the ball out to Lizarazu or threading passes in behind Ballack to Aimar or Gazza.

Both Lizarazu and Zambrotta are huge outlets here - who is pressing them? It can't be Ballack because he's on Pirlo? The fullbacks are in acres here IMO and that is a sure route to goal.

Pirlo will dictate this game. The question is whether Sniper can turn that dominance of possession into goals which is a different debate.

 

[Snipers Breath]

I think the workhorse talk about Pirlo is being overplayed, at his best Pirlo could play alongside Seedorf and Kaka, in fact he did.

In the 03/04 season where they came first in the league i remember a lot of the games were played with just Gattuso Pirlo and Kaka.

In the 06 world cup final this was the formation they played.

In fact very similar to the formation i have, with Totti acting as number 10, and Perotta helping the midfield two of Gattuso and Pirlo.

The talk about Pirlos need to have two workhorses beside him is overstated.

Essentially it is still a midfield three of Gerrard Pirlo and Gascoigne with Aimar playing as the number 10, you don't need to have a midfield full of workhorses to win the midfield.

Edgars team is good but apart from Baggio i still see a lack of creativity in there, Alonso is not Pirlo he can pass the ball i give him that, but the ability to play incisive balls from deep consistently he doesn't have that in his armoury.

 

[Jayvin]

There's 3 workhorses in that Italy midfield, Gattuso, Camoranesi and Perrotta

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Alonso is not Pirlo he can pass the ball i give him that, but the ability to play incisive balls from deep consistently he doesn't have that in his armoury.

Pirlo will dictate this game. The question is whether Sniper can turn that dominance of possession into goals which is a different debate.

So you think he can?

Both Lizarazu and Zambrotta are huge outlets here - who is pressing them? It can't be Ballack because he's on Pirlo? The fullbacks are in acres here IMO and that is a sure route to goal.

MY fullbacks? With a 3 man defence they will be more comfortable pressing their opposition counterparts back, I should think.

 

[crappycraperson]

I don't like either team set up here.

 

[Snipers Breath]

There's 3 workhorses in that Italy midfield, Gattuso, Camoranesi and Perrotta

I see, Gattuso as his midfield partner and Perotta.

Unless you forget Gerrard in his prime had quite the engine as well, his tactical discipline might of been an issue, but that is erdadicated a bit when you put him on the right.

Di Maria also works very hard as well, lest we forget, in fact he is one of the hardest working wingers around. The only lackadaisical players in the team is Aimar, Gascogine isn't renowned for his stamina but in his heyday he would run through midfields single handedly.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Honestly, really don't understand how 5 people think opposition can score even one, forget more than my forwards! I can't even figure out who will be scoring here.

If Baggio cannot help me, I'm out of options

 

[antohan]

I think the workhorse talk about Pirlo is being overplayed, at his best Pirlo could play alongside Seedorf and Kaka, in fact he did.

Agreed, it's not a requirement to play him in a diamond with two workhorses and while he wasn't some sort of all-action midfield beast he would do his fair share. The problem is that differently from Milan and that Italy formation you posted, there's no Gattuso in sight. That is, there isn't a single workhorse anywhere around him. Gascoigne and Aimar are actually miles from being so.

 

[antohan]

Honestly, really don't understand how 5 people think opposition can score even one, forget more than my forwards! I can't even figure out who will be scoring here.

If Baggio cannot help me, I'm out of options

Blame me, I brought the Pelé jynx upon you.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Cambiasso's on the wrong side now

I'm not playing that now, but still...

Well, he is the defensive minded midfielder and his side has Di Maria. Other side has Alonso and Maldini. So I put him there.

 

[Snipers Breath]

Agreed, it's not a requirement to play him in a diamond with two workhorses and while he wasn't some sort of all-action midfield beast he would do his fair share. The problem is that differently from Milan and that Italy formation you posted, there's no Gattuso in sight. That is, there isn't a single workhorse anywhere around him. Gascoigne and Aimar are actually miles from being so.

There is Gerrard, from 21-25 he had one of the best engines in Europe, there is Di Maria who for a winger has one of the best work rates i have seen, certainly no less than someone like Camronesi.

 

[antohan]

There is Gerrard, from 21-25 he had one of the best engines in Europe, there is Di Maria who for a winger has one of the best work rates i have seen, certainly no less than someone like Camronesi.

They are both out wide, you are playing against a side with a narrow but very strong spine, you need that workrate in the middle of the park really.

 

[Snipers Breath]

They are both out wide, you are playing against a side with a narrow but very strong spine, you need that workrate in the middle of the park really.

Gerrards playing wide in as much Perotta was playing wide for Italy. I could have put tucked him in a bit on the formation, not that really matters, i stated on my tactics that he was playing essentially as the 4th central mid, with Di Maria being the one who maintains the width.

 

[MJJ]

Overkill by Edgar...way too many defenders/defensive minded players. Can see SB edging it as he will have a easier time dealing with EAP attack.

 

[antohan]

Yeah, Rui Costa shouldn't be on the bench here, no doubt.

 

[MJJ]

Yeah, Rui Costa shouldn't be on the bench here, no doubt.

Yup, would probably have voted for him if he had costa instead of cambiasso. As it is,I see his attack being extremely one dimensional.