RedCafe's Top 20 (30) by Position | Please check out the last threadmark

[Physiocrat]

you are obsessed with goalscoring 8s

It's a really minor position, just put it in for completeness.

As I have probably said before I'd have four categories-

DMs and defensive B2Bs
Attacking B2B and goal scoring 8s
DLPs and midfield playmakers
Creative 8s and 10s

I think that covers function, position and style of the players quite well. I don't see how to make that into three categories without any damage. The only other option IMO is one mega-list of 80 which would take ages to put together and get it right

 

[Moby]

Not a fan of having two cats for B2Bs. This will create bigger confusion when get into the listing players for each cat. In that sense you will be classifying Matthaus and say Lampard in the same category when Matthaus was defensively brilliant and could and did cover tremendously high amount of defensive work.

Seems to me simply having two categories is the way to go for CMs. Basically creative and non-creative, end of. And another category for #10s.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

POLL! POLL! POLL!

 

[harms]

Can anyone summarize the poll options?

 

[Physiocrat]

Can anyone summarize the poll options?

Four options that I think are on the table-

One mega-list
4 categories -DMs and defensive B2Bs; Attacking B2B and goal scoring 8s; DLPs and midfield playmakers; Creative 8s and 10s
4 categories - DM and Defensive B2B; DLP and Central Midfield playmaker; Goalscoring 8 and Creative 8s, Attacking B2B; 10s
3 categorises - creative CMs, non-creative CMs, 10s

 

[Synco]

Two more:

DMs -- DLPs & playmaking #8s -- B2B -- attacking midfielders & classic #10s
All DMs & CMs -- #10s

Two questions for @Physiocrat:
What's the difference between CM playmakers and creative #8s?
Can't goalscoring #8s be simply lumped together with attacking B2B? Would make it easier to read.

 

[Synco]

And Edgar's:

DMs & defensive B2Bs -- DLP & attacking B2Bs -- attacking midfielders/#10s

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Have single list as one of the options too. Probably won't win but why not

 

[Synco]

Have single list as one of the options too. Probably won't win but why not

Is the first one in Physio's post.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Is the first one in Physio's post.

My bad, I missed it.

@harms , start the democracy.

 

[harms]

In the evening.

 

[Physiocrat]

Two questions for @Physiocrat:
What's the difference between CM playmakers and creative #8s?
Can't goalscoring #8s be simply lumped together with attacking B2B? Would make it easier to read.

1) It distinguishes main playmakers like Xavi from auxiliary creative types like Iniesta and Gascoigne. The way I look at it you could play two creative 8s in the same side but not two CM playmakers (in most cases)

2) That's fine, not too bothered about that.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Ball-playing midfielders and midfielders, that should cover everything.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Ball-playing midfielders and midfielders, that should cover everything.

Get over it Bepo

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Get over it Bepo

Never!

 

[Physiocrat]

Ball-playing midfielders and midfielders, that should cover everything.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I'm sure there will be massive shoehorning no matter the final system, it's inevitable when putting reality into neatly divided categories. If we go with 6/8/10 it will be the same. I'd say we should just accept that and not try to do too much justice to individual players.

One underlying theme in these debates (maybe even the central one) is position vs function. I think players should be primarily grouped for their function. A #6 like Pirlo has much more in common with a #8 like Xavi than with a #6 like Casemiro.

What I find interesting is no one has a problem comparing full backs with drastically different functions. Dani Alves and Victor Andrade or Gentile have even more different functions than Xavi and Lothar IMO yet no one needs an off/def FB list. Just keep it simple and its best

I think the easiest is like Moby said, lets just go with Xtra three categories

1. DM/b2b
2. CM/playmaker
3. AM/no.10

Any more than 3 and its going to be silly

 

[Synco]

What I find interesting is no one has a problem comparing full backs with drastically different functions. Dani Alves and Victor Andrade or Gentile have even more different functions than Xavi and Lothar IMO yet no one needs an off/def FB list.

Yeah, it's not been consistent. The option was in the poll, but I think the general mood was that dividing offensive and defensive fullbacks is a near impossible task, because of the balanced types.

Just keep it simple and its best

I think the easiest is like Moby said, lets just go with Xtra three categories

1. DM/b2b
2. CM/playmaker
3. AM/no.10

Any more than 3 and its going to be silly

I like that one too, and I think it will be one of two I'll vote for.

 

[Physiocrat]

What I find interesting is no one has a problem comparing full backs with drastically different functions. Dani Alves and Victor Andrade or Gentile have even more different functions than Xavi and Lothar

I wanted an offensive and defensive full-back list but no-one else wanted it

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I think this is a good way to look at it. In the end, it might be most useful to categorize players themselves into a Main Function, Main Category and Minor Category rather than force players into lists if that makes sense? We can probably all agree on an etymology of position for each player but its reducing everyone to neat 1 word labels that gets messy imo

 

[Moby]

Oh great. Here come the nerds.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Oh great. Here come the nerds.

You're the nerd who brought up xtra

Anyway I'm done here, too much nerding out elsewhere to accomplish today

 

[Moby]

You're the nerd who brought up xtra

Anyway I'm done here, too much nerding out to accomplish today

I love me a bit of irony before going to bed.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Oh great. Here come the nerds.

 

[harms]

Added the poll.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Oh great. Here come the nerds.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Question: Why has not a single voter nominated Zebec in the left backs list?

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Question: Why has not a single voter nominated Zebec in the left backs list?

Think we only nominate players with footage, at least thats the reason he isnt on my list

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Think we only nominate players with footage, at least thats the reason he isnt on my list

NB: After careful consideration, only players that had played at least a season after the 1950 WC are eligible.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Ffs

 

[harms]

By the way, another reminder to please stick to the format and check for doubles and for the correct spelling. There are no draws or multiple choice places, just a straightforward 1 to 20 list.

 

[Gio]

Question: Why has not a single voter nominated Zebec in the left backs list?

Might come back to @Invictus's point earlier about the players who were world class in more than one position. Plus in Branko's case, it's unclear how much he played as a left-back in the traditional sense, with much of his CV being as a LW/LM and CB/LCB/SW. Merge all that together and he's probably going to be a great left-back, particularly in the modern game, but generally I think the versatile types might suffer in this type of more silo-based positional rankings because their body of work isn't as lengthy.

 

[Physiocrat]

Right, it looks like DMs and B2B; playmakers and 10s is the winner.

So I think sorting the edge cases needs to be done between B2B and playmakers.

Ones I think could be an issue are -

Falcao
Schweinsteiger
Younger Scholes

Anybody got others?

I think Modric was brought up too

 

[Physiocrat]

Any thoughts anyone for the edge cases I brought up? It won't be long before we start the DM/B2B voting

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Think the only issue is where you place complete midfielders, the likes of Falcao, Seedorf, De Bruyne, Overath etc.

Schweinsteiger's both version fit in DM/B2B category
Young Scholes is a b2b
Modric with complete midfielders wherever they go.

 

[Physiocrat]

@Šjor Bepo Given the categories where would you put the above?

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@Šjor Bepo Given the categories where would you put the above?

honestly dont know it only makes sense to merge them with playmakers but feck me so many great players will miss out....
Personally not sure how big the number 10 pool is, specially if we dont use the likes of Zico and co. there.

As for DM/B2B category, do offensive ones go here as well?

 

[harms]

Personally not sure how big the number 10 pool is, specially if we dont use the likes of Zico and co. there.

Well, we definitely do.

 

[Physiocrat]

As for DM/B2B category, do offensive ones go here as well?

I think that's the idea.

I would put Zico in as a playmaking forward.

We could do a top 30 for DMs/B2Bs and playmakers.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I don't care what anyone says, I am putting Zico in the No.10s list.