edgecutter
Full Member
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2014
- Messages
- 4,710
When the information is not clear always vote no.
The church and its attitude to women is not some abstract. It was horrific at times.Yeah, I agree it’s archaic.
Culture and standards are a tricky area to make judgements on. After all the stuff about the church started to come out in the late 90s I remember asking my grannies and others of their generation about life back then and what things were like. Life was hard but they didn’t report this state of oppression that modern Ireland depicts it as. Mind you…none had a child out of wedlock, so in that respect you’re bang on.
I was trying to think of an appropriate description. Secular liberal fundamentalists perhaps?
That makes it worseAt least with the Brexit referendum, people understood what they were voting for eh?
It was horrific for some is what I’m saying I suppose, but it wasn’t for the majority. That’s not to excuse what happened to that minority because I’m in agreement with you there.The church and its attitude to women is not some abstract. It was horrific at times.
This is a country that made marital rape illegal as recently as 1990.
The church made many unmarried mother's life heel. It's not just an academic viewpoint.
Yeah and the majority are still hetero married couples, doesn't mean it's OK to stack it up against those who aren't.It was horrific for some is what I’m saying I suppose, but it wasn’t for the majority. That’s not to excuse what happened to that minority because I’m in agreement with you there.
I just think there’s this tendency for some people nowadays to engage in a kind of gaslighting when it comes to the past.
Perhaps my favourite Irish insult.Eamonn Ryan is a gowl
I didn’t say it was. The mention of ‘durable relationships’ is the culprit in this instance.Yeah and the majority are still hetero married couples, doesn't mean it's OK to stack it up against those who aren't.
But that sort of blanket statement is a form of gaslighting.Our history is shameful, that's not gaslighting.
I didnt even bother which makes this the first vote I've missed since I registered several years ago for the abortion vote. I don't mind who won to be honest.Anyone voting? Don’t think I’ve ever cared less about exercising my constitutional rights.
A lot of people seem to struggle to explain exactly how this matters and what the practical implications are. My Dad keeps blaming this referendum on LGBT people and my Mam is enraged that the word "mother" is being "removed". I don't think either has given any practical consequence.That’s what my wife said. But she couldn’t explain why.
What exactly is the gaslighting here?But that sort of blanket statement is a form of gaslighting.
But that sort of blanket statement is a form of gaslighting.
I didnt even bother which makes this the first vote I've missed since I registered several years ago for the abortion vote. I don't mind who won to be honest.
A lot of people seem to struggle to explain exactly how this matters and what the practical implications are. My Dad keeps blaming this referendum on LGBT people and my Mam is enraged that the word "mother" is being "removed". I don't think either has given any practical consequence.
We’re world famous for our shameful history?That's nonsense. How many examples would you need to acknowledge our shameful history. We're literally world famous for it.
You're on a wind up here surely?We’re world famous for our shameful history?
At risk of fulfilling Godwin’s Law…the only country that sort of blanket statement really applies to is Germany.
I’m well aware of the negative aspects of the church within Irish society. I’m just pulling you up on your non-specific blanket statements.You're on a wind up here surely?
The negative role of the church within Irish society is quite well known. Not to you bizarrely.
Well it those aspects I'm talking about.I’m well aware of the negative aspects of the church within Irish society. I’m just pulling you up on your non-specific blanket statements.
No problem then. I’m in agreement with you on those aspects.Well it those aspects I'm talking about.
No problem then. I’m in agreement with you on those aspects.
I do know.They're quite widespread and widely known, just so you know.
You’ve used a few of those internet buzzwords and phrases in the two pages of the thread. (And I’m not trying to gaslight there you btw )Gaslighting indeed. I hate internet buzzwords. You'd be shouting narcissist next.
I live to serve.It's great we have you policing things.
I think this is what it boiled down to, people just didn't know or understand what they were voting for. It was just too vague with wording that even Mehole couldn't explain when properly when quizzed about it.When the information is not clear always vote no.
I do know.
You’ve used a few of those internet buzzwords and phrases in the two pages of the thread. (And I’m not trying to gaslight there you btw )
I live to serve.
You’ve used a few of those internet buzzwords and phrases in the two pages of the thread. (And I’m not trying to gaslight there you btw )
Cheers. As I said before I’m well aware of the negative aspects of the church in our country’s past but I’ll take a look at the links over the next couple of days when I have time.Here's some background to the blanket statement. If too abstract I can get some anecdotal events to show the material effects.
The church role in marital rape.
https://www.drcc.ie/news-resources/irish-times-opinion-editorial-noeline-blackwell/
How the Catholic church shaped the constitutionto define women.
https://theconversation.com/irish-r...titution-to-define-the-status-of-women-222231
A history of repression and misogyny.
https://www.socialistparty.ie/2018/05/women-church-irish-state-history-misogyny-repression/
Women's Rights halted in the 20's
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20348154.html
The natural law and Catholic teachings in Ireland
https://journals.openedition.org/etudesirlandaises/3913
Catholic Nationalism and Feminism in 20th century Ireland.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...wQFnoECDkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0kPzW0aHFJTGVSd65qKxMh
The Oppression of Women in Ireland
https://rupture.ie/articles/the-oppression-of-women-in-ireland
Agree 100%A cock up from the government in every single way. Ballsed up the wording. Never communicated the message to people in a meaningful way. Wasted millions on it. Never talked about the implications of it because they didn't know what they would be.
A complete and total waste of time and money.
Not saying that changing the wording is a complete and total waste of time and money; it's a step forward - but if you're going to half-arse it this much then don't bother.
Eamonn Ryan is a gowl. I can't stand any political party in this country. Not one. Even individually, they are all cnuts.
Thanks for this reading list - been wondering how things moved from women being at the heart of the rebellion to being repressed in just a few short yearsHere's some background to the blanket statement. If too abstract I can get some anecdotal events to show the material effects.
The church role in marital rape.
https://www.drcc.ie/news-resources/irish-times-opinion-editorial-noeline-blackwell/
How the Catholic church shaped the constitutionto define women.
https://theconversation.com/irish-r...titution-to-define-the-status-of-women-222231
A history of repression and misogyny.
https://www.socialistparty.ie/2018/05/women-church-irish-state-history-misogyny-repression/
Women's Rights halted in the 20's
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20348154.html
The natural law and Catholic teachings in Ireland
https://journals.openedition.org/etudesirlandaises/3913
Catholic Nationalism and Feminism in 20th century Ireland.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...wQFnoECDkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0kPzW0aHFJTGVSd65qKxMh
The Oppression of Women in Ireland
https://rupture.ie/articles/the-oppression-of-women-in-ireland
I have a mate who has written a few books on 1916 and one of them was about the women involved so we've discussed this a bit.Thanks for this reading list - been wondering how things moved from women being at the heart of the rebellion to being repressed in just a few short years
Why have that in a constitution at all?So the change will be from:
"We recognise that Irish stay at home Mams play an important role and we'll try not have you out working unless absolutely necessary"
To:
“The State recognises that the provision of care, by members of a family to one another by reason of the bonds that exist among them, gives to Society a support without which the common good cannot be achieved, and shall strive to support such provision.”
Because a constitution should always make sure women know there place i.e. in the kitchen.I see the usual suspects are treating the result as a victory against political correctness.
Where the Catholic church's evil peaked and the worst bit were exported.The negative role of the church within Irish society is quite well known. Not to you bizarrely.