Replacing Casemiro

[FlawlessVictory88]

Great write up. I really like this lad every time I've watched him. One of the stand out players between the bottom 3 teams. Any idea if he has a relegation release clause?

Thanks. I've made a brief google search and nothing appears for him and a release clause but that's far from definitive, for our sake I hope he does as it would make any signing much easier.

Fernandes at the right price is an interesting option for sure. However, I still have a feeling Mainoo’s future lies deeper in this system, and we also have Sekou Kone coming through who is a great ball carrier too.

The other option I like is Amadou Kone at Reims who apparently us and Liverpool are tracking. He’s more of a towering DM but has great passing range and for his size is very press resistant. Would be good to either get him in this summer to bed-in for a year whilst Casemiro is still here, or sign him and leave him on loan for another year at Reims.

I agree with you on Mainoo and think he along with most of our central midfielders have been unfairly criticised when by far the biggest issue we have is in attack. I also agree on Kone and would even add Thwaites who I think is one of the best players in our academy, if I have any serious criticism of Amorim this season it's been that he's consistently given minutes to older players leaving in the summer rather than using academy prospects, I don't want to see Erikson starting over Kone in any more games.

Overall though I still lean heavily towards signing Fernandes because while I really like everything I see with Kone/Thwaites they're both still totally unproven in the premier league whereas Fernandes has been putting up excellent numbers. Given our lack of funds and the need to strengthen multiple other areas I'd be fine with Fernandes being our only CM signing this summer and promoting Kone permanently to the 1st team.

 

[EtH]

I doubt Ferguson was keeping around old players on 300k a week, when the club is skint.

I find it hard to buy into this idea that having a player around just because he's old is of significant value in itself. Casemiro's experience hasn't stopped us becoming a lower half side, effectively two seasons in a row since 8th flattered us massively last season. Casemiro's positive dressing room influence hasn't prevented us from sitting 15th in the PL table. If Casemiro can't "mentor" the team to even a top half finish now why would he be able to next season or the season after?

If you're keeping an old player around, do it because he's still a significant asset on the pitch. "Experience" and "character" by itself is completely overstated.

Ferguson also become way too sentimental, Gary Neville had to retire himself mid-season because he realised himself he was costing the team he was so bad, and Ferguson still wanted him to continue.


Frankly I'm baffled by the amount of fans I see wanting to keep so much of this squad together, as if we're not a lower half team with this current set of players. We have fans clamouring over themselves to offer Maguire and Casemiro contract extensions, it's crazy.

It may or may not make sense to keep Casemiro, it completely depends on who we could realistically replace him with, how much money we have, whether we sell well etc. so I'll have to trust the club have their reasons no matter which way they go.


My main concern with keeping Casemiro around is Amorim has admitted he's had to change his tactics just to suit a player who can't run like he wants. "We understood that he cannot jump all the time pressing high. Sometimes it's better to put 3 defenders and to let him be the 4th defender, and put the wing backs pressing high".

This was a theme of Ole and ETH reigns that the squad couldn't play the way they wanted so they ended up abandoning their plans and just adapt adapt adapt, and ultimately both failed to get the team to the level we needed. This club is in a constant state of compensating - trying to compensate for players with no pace, compensate for players who are past their prime, compensate for players who can't run, compensate for centre backs who can't compete in the air. I fear until we stop purposely hamstringing ourselves with this mentality we're going nowhere.

You may have to adapt in the very short term. But the goal surely has to be as soon as possible, get rid of the players not suited to your preferred way of playing. Amorim very clearly wants players who are in their physical prime who can run.

What Fergie would’ve done is irrelevant. But it’s especially ironic you bring him up being that we operated with Carrick as a one-man midfield for how many years ? It was a running joke for Chrissake. For the sake of argument though getting rid of Case right now would be like SAF selling Carrick when we had no other decent options. Pure madness. Let’s also not forget that if Casemiro doesn’t want to leave he won’t be leaving this summer. Much better to extend him another year if he would agree a reasonable wage reduction, which I think he would do at this point.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Well if done correctly then a new 2 year contract with much lower wage to replace his extortionate current contract could be useful

Why on earth would Casimero accept that? In essence you are asking him to play the 26/27 for free, or for barely any wage.

Given he won’t sign such a deal, we can wait until Nov 25 at the earliest and see where everyone stands, and potentially look at a new contract then.

I doubt Ferguson was keeping around old players on 300k a week, when the club is skint.

I find it hard to buy into this idea that having a player around just because he's old is of significant value in itself. Casemiro's experience hasn't stopped us becoming a lower half side, effectively two seasons in a row since 8th flattered us massively last season. Casemiro's positive dressing room influence hasn't prevented us from sitting 15th in the PL table. If Casemiro can't "mentor" the team to even a top half finish now why would he be able to next season or the season after?

If you're keeping an old player around, do it because he's still a significant asset on the pitch. "Experience" and "character" by itself is completely overstated.

Ferguson also become way too sentimental, Gary Neville had to retire himself mid-season because he realised himself he was costing the team he was so bad, and Ferguson still wanted him to continue.


Frankly I'm baffled by the amount of fans I see wanting to keep so much of this squad together, as if we're not a lower half team with this current set of players. We have fans clamouring over themselves to offer Maguire and Casemiro contract extensions, it's crazy.

It may or may not make sense to keep Casemiro, it completely depends on who we could realistically replace him with, how much money we have, whether we sell well etc. so I'll have to trust the club have their reasons no matter which way they go.


My main concern with keeping Casemiro around is Amorim has admitted he's had to change his tactics just to suit a player who can't run like he wants. "We understood that he cannot jump all the time pressing high. Sometimes it's better to put 3 defenders and to let him be the 4th defender, and put the wing backs pressing high".

This was a theme of Ole and ETH reigns that the squad couldn't play the way they wanted so they ended up abandoning their plans and just adapt adapt adapt, and ultimately both failed to get the team to the level we needed. This club is in a constant state of compensating - trying to compensate for players with no pace, compensate for players who are past their prime, compensate for players who can't run, compensate for centre backs who can't compete in the air. I fear until we stop purposely hamstringing ourselves with this mentality we're going nowhere.

You may have to adapt in the very short term. But the goal surely has to be as soon as possible, get rid of the players not suited to your preferred way of playing. Amorim very clearly wants players who are in their physical prime who can run.

Spot on.

 

[golden_blunder]

Why on earth would Casimero accept that? In essence you are asking him to play the 26/27 for free, or for barely any wage.

Given he won’t sign such a deal, we can wait until Nov 25 at the earliest and see where everyone stands, and potentially look at a new contract then.

Spot on.

It’s not unheard off for older players to start accepting contracts for less money

 

[Big Ben Foster]

A short run of good form near the end of the season and now many Caf posters want to give him and Maguire new contracts.

The Caf never learns...

 

[Dominos]

What Fergie would’ve done is irrelevant. But it’s especially ironic you bring him up being that we operated with Carrick as a one-man midfield for how many years ? It was a running joke for Chrissake. For the sake of argument though getting rid of Case right now would be like SAF selling Carrick when we had no other decent options. Pure madness. Let’s also not forget that if Casemiro doesn’t want to leave he won’t be leaving this summer. Much better to extend him another year if he would agree a reasonable wage reduction, which I think he would do at this point.

Ferguson refusing to sign a top midfielder was a mistake, so not sure what the point was there. Trying to compensate the team around 38 year old Scholes and 39 year old giggs probably wasn't the best thing for the team, he was just very good at getting the best out of a sub-optimal situation.

For most of the last 18 months to 2 years, nearly everyone on the forum thought Casemiro was finished so I'm not sure how that compares to Carrick who was still in his prime in terms of performances.

 

[Dominos]

A short run of good form near the end of the season and now many Caf posters want to give him and Maguire new contracts.

The Caf never learns...

It's like they've not observed the decisions we've made over the last 12 years.

 

[Raoul]

Why on earth would Casimero accept that? In essence you are asking him to play the 26/27 for free, or for barely any wage.

Given he won’t sign such a deal, we can wait until Nov 25 at the earliest and see where everyone stands, and potentially look at a new contract then.

As was suggested above, older players obviously can't ask for the same money as they made in the late 20s.

 

[EtH]

Ferguson refusing to sign a top midfielder was a mistake, so not sure what the point was there. Trying to compensate the team around 38 year old Scholes and 39 year old giggs probably wasn't the best thing for the team, he was just very good at getting the best out of a sub-optimal situation.

For most of the last 18 months to 2 years, nearly everyone on the forum thought Casemiro was finished so I'm not sure how that compares to Carrick who was still in his prime in terms of performances.

I didn’t bring up the WWFD argument you did. It’s reductive thinking. And also ironic as I pointed out re central midfield in SAF’s latter years. Completely irrelevant to Manchester United in 2025.

Whatever the forum thinks or thought the simple fact of the matter is Casemiro is our only quality central midfield option at present. It’s a squad game. Extending him a year on a reduced wage only makes sense.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Whatever the forum thinks or thought the simple fact of the matter is Casemiro is our only quality central midfield option at present. It’s a squad game. Extending him a year on a reduced wage only makes sense.

I have seen this exact same line of thought brought up countless times over the last 12 years to justify contract renewals that shouldn't have occurred. Feels like deja vu.

In fact I can guarantee that even if somebody like Lindelof were to go on a run of good form between now and the end of the season, there will be calls to keep him on as a squad player.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

As was suggested above, older players obviously can't ask for the same money as they made in the late 20s.

Of course. But unless I’ve misunderstood you - you are proposing a new two year deal on reduced wages for both of those two years?

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

It’s not unheard off for older players to start accepting contracts for less money

Of course - but why would any player except dramatically reducing their current contract dramatically? The pay off being a paltry 1 year extension.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

As was suggested above, older players obviously can't ask for the same money as they made in the late 20s.

Casemiro on half of the wages he's on now would still be on an amount that's obscenely high relative to the contribution we're getting from him.

 

[Teja]

Ederson would be perfect to rotate with Mainoo and Ugarte.

We've come full circle here, but I'd say Angelo Stiller for a proper DM - passer replacement is my #1 (has a reasonable release clause).

Followed by Ederson if we want to just ball with two proper box to box mids.

Casemiro I'd just keep as a rotation option for the next season and say goodbye after that.

 

[EtH]

I have seen this exact same line of thought brought up countless times over the last 12 years to justify contract renewals that shouldn't have occurred. Feels like deja vu.

In fact I can guarantee that even if somebody like Lindelof were to go on a run of good form between now and the end of the season, there will be calls to keep him on as a squad player.

Now you’re just being silly.

 

[EdinburghDevil]

If we qualify for Europe next season and with Eriksen leaving, I'm not sure we can afford not to keep him and suck up his wages for another season.

We'll have 50+ games and I don't see a world where we sign 2 CMs when a 10, ST and WB likely get prioritised.

 

[Raoul]

Casemiro on half of the wages he's on now would still be on an amount that's obscenely high relative to the contribution we're getting from him.

Amorim seems to think he’s an asset. His form, experience, and positive influence in the dressing room will be useful if we go on a CL run next year.

 

[Raoul]

Of course. But unless I’ve misunderstood you - you are proposing a new two year deal on reduced wages for both of those two years?

I proposed a Giggs style one year extension. Others proposed the two year idea. I think a year by year situation is preferable since it lowers the risk for the club.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

We've come full circle here, but I'd say Angelo Stiller for a proper DM - passer replacement is my #1 (has a reasonable release clause).

Followed by Ederson if we want to just ball with two proper box to box mids.

Casemiro I'd just keep as a rotation option for the next season and say goodbye after that.

Stiller is a brilliant distributor so I don’t think many would be unhappy.

I just think we want more energy and physicality as well as the ball carrying ability.

Ideally you’d sign both for their relative strengths and sell Casemiro for a fee to Saudi.

Whatever happens I think from more reputable reports we’re looking in the right areas.

 

[Teja]

Whatever happens I think from more reputable reports we’re looking in the right areas.

Are there any reports? The midfield is one of the most important areas to strengthen for me and I haven't seen any links at all which is worrying. Ederson was the only one I saw in ~Jan.

 

[Dion]

I think Casemiro on £175k a week in CL seasons, given we almost certainly can't get any of his fee back if he leaves is... fine? He's clearly got an elite mentality and a good influence on those around him, which combined with his obvious qualities (nose for a goal, still defensively solid and the only midfielder we have who can pick a forward pass) then if you can set up to hide his weaknesses more often than not (which Amorim seems to be getting closer too) then I'm okay with it.

I still think the transfer was absolutely horrific and is probably in the top 5 worst ever for the club (and almost any other club other than Barcelona, Real and Chelsea it would be number 1 by a mile), but it is what it is.

 

[NZT-One]

Fergie shipped out more than a few players regarded as legends by United fans over the years, if he thought Giggs was useful to have around then that's the only reason he was given a contract, being a legend in the fans eyes wouldn't have mattered

Fergie became quite sentimental in his last years around here and probably hung on a few of the old guard for a little too long. Understandable, don't get me wrong. And justified as he was able to still be able to get results and performances but lets not act as if the majority of fans during those years wasn't harping about midfield reinforcements. Thats nothing against Giggs or SAF, but I think pulling off parallels to a time where we were a European powerhouse don't really make sense. A bit like the whole "experience" and "winner mentality" thing. Those things are important, but they don't mean shit if you aren't on the required level physically or technically. Casemiro contributed in the last few weeks, I appreciate that. But it certainly shouldn't be a gateway for thinking about extentions.

The longer post of Dominos puts it very well together.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I proposed a Giggs style one year extension. Others proposed the two year idea. I think a year by year situation is preferable since it lowers the risk for the club.

I have no problem with extending his contract, and happy with the ‘Giggs style’, but wouldn’t even look at that until at least November, and ideally April 26. Of course that means he could walk away - but that’s the risk.

 

[NZT-One]

As was suggested above, older players obviously can't ask for the same money as they made in the late 20s.

A rolling contract certainly wouldn't be the worst thing in the world but the financial outlay is just one thing. Casemiro probably wouldn't stay without getting a promise for a certain amount of game time. This game time is needed though because as we know, we have to bring in other players in midfield, potentially at least one who is on the younger side and needs minutes to get up to speed. The notion that "we need him for CL" is very enthusiastic, I like it, but I feel it is a bit too hopeful to rectify a huge wage that will then be used by agents from other players in the team to get better deals. All that for a player who played exactly as expected for a team that sits in the lower regions of the table, deservedly.

I didn’t bring up the WWFD argument you did. It’s reductive thinking. And also ironic as I pointed out re central midfield in SAF’s latter years. Completely irrelevant to Manchester United in 2025.

Whatever the forum thinks or thought the simple fact of the matter is Casemiro is our only quality central midfield option at present. It’s a squad game. Extending him a year on a reduced wage only makes sense.

We have Ugarte, who was brought in for a high fee and we have Mainoo who needs minutes if we want him to realize his potential. Half the redcafe wants to see Bruno play in CM (I personally don't but thats another topic) and most people on here think that we should go big on a really good midfielder in the summer. Casemiro is not our only quality central midfield option, I have no idea, what indicates that to you.

I think Casemiro on £175k a week in CL seasons, given we almost certainly can't get any of his fee back if he leaves is... fine? He's clearly got an elite mentality and a good influence on those around him, which combined with his obvious qualities (nose for a goal, still defensively solid and the only midfielder we have who can pick a forward pass) then if you can set up to hide his weaknesses more often than not (which Amorim seems to be getting closer too) then I'm okay with it.

I still think the transfer was absolutely horrific and is probably in the top 5 worst ever for the club (and almost any other club other than Barcelona, Real and Chelsea it would be number 1 by a mile), but it is what it is.

All those qualities were there this season and it didn't stop the bleeding. How is this going to change next year when he will be another year older. We have to give those numbers to young players with the potential to become starters for a competitive Manchester United team. If a team like Bayern or Inter affords themselves with an older veteran for a position of need, thats totally fine because those teams are functional with or without him but he can make the difference in one-off games. Thats not where we are though. Us only really looking for EL so cup games must not skew the perspective on the league.

If our resources are limited, we simply can't hang onto such players. And I think, the notion of "can be useful as a squad player" should be placed on the backburner as long as our starting lineup leaves so much to be desired.

btw: I am a bit puzzled that so much of Amorim propping up this or that player is brought up, isn't it obvious that he isn't going to slam players publically? I mean, what do you expect him to say? Last time somebody came up with the notion that SAF gave an interview to MU TV and said he liked this or that player - well wtf is he going to say on fecking MUTV?!

 

[daba]

I think Casemiro on £175k a week in CL seasons, given we almost certainly can't get any of his fee back if he leaves is... fine? He's clearly got an elite mentality and a good influence on those around him, which combined with his obvious qualities (nose for a goal, still defensively solid and the only midfielder we have who can pick a forward pass) then if you can set up to hide his weaknesses more often than not (which Amorim seems to be getting closer too) then I'm okay with it.

I still think the transfer was absolutely horrific and is probably in the top 5 worst ever for the club (and almost any other club other than Barcelona, Real and Chelsea it would be number 1 by a mile), but it is what it is.

As much as I agree the transfer wasn't a great one - given we paid £10-15m more than we should have, gave him 100k per week more than we should have, and should have been targeting a player about to hit his prime not coming off it (eg. Rice).

However, if we manage to win Europa this year that would be 3 trophies in his 3 years here, in what is meant to be our "banter" era. He had a very good first season and played a huge part in every run in those cup wins. Sure, you could say that if we had signed Rice instead that we could have achieved the same or more and be in a better league position, but for me his transfer is not in the same category as the likes of Sancho, Antony, Mount, Alexis Sanchez, Hojlund, Van de Beek, and maybe Maguire and Onana too.

For me he is in the next band/level with the likes of Di Maria and Veron who are bad transfers for us but were actually great players in their own right.

 

[daba]

Given we're now discussing the idea of extending his contract (something that 6 months was unthinkable)...

What is the minimum fee people would accept if he has offers this summer - 15m? 20m? 30m?

 

[Dion]

All those qualities were there this season and it didn't stop the bleeding. How is this going to change next year when he will be another year older. We have to give those numbers to young players with the potential to become starters for a competitive Manchester United team. If a team like Bayern or Inter affords themselves with an older veteran for a position of need, thats totally fine because those teams are functional with or without him but he can make the difference in one-off games. Thats not where we are though. Us only really looking for EL so cup games must not skew the perspective on the league.

If our resources are limited, we simply can't hang onto such players. And I think, the notion of "can be useful as a squad player" should be placed on the backburner as long as our starting lineup leaves so much to be desired.

All of those points would be true if Casemiro leaving was going to materially change what we could or couldn't do in the transfer market. If we could get £30m of him I'd ride him on a bike there myself. As it is, nobody will buy him and we do lack experience in winning in the team. I view renewing him a bit in the same way I did us signing Eriksen, it's a relatively cheap way of filling a gap.

As much as I agree the transfer wasn't a great one - given we paid £10-15m more than we should have, gave him 100k per week more than we should have, and should have been targeting a player about to hit his prime not coming off it (eg. Rice).

However, if we manage to win Europa this year that would be 3 trophies in his 3 years here, in what is meant to be our "banter" era. He had a very good first season and played a huge part in every run in those cup wins. Sure, you could say that if we had signed Rice instead that we could have achieved the same or more and be in a better league position, but for me his transfer is not in the same category as the likes of Sancho, Antony, Mount, Alexis Sanchez, Hojlund, Van de Beek, and maybe Maguire and Onana too.

For me he is in the next band/level with the likes of Di Maria and Veron who are bad transfers for us but were actually great players in their own right.

I think we paid about £40m more than we should have and paid him £150k more than we should have, and signed him for a year longer than we should have. That's £100m over his contract that was wasted. He's right up there with Sancho, Antony, Sanchez and Mount for me. If we do actually manage to get £25m for Sancho and £35m for Antony I'd say Casemiro is comfortably worse than those two as well.

The worst bit was he wasn't even the type of player we needed. He's had some good spells of form and one great spell of form, but the sheer amount of money involved was incomprehensibly stupid.

Given we're now discussing the idea of extending his contract (something that 6 months was unthinkable)...

What is the minimum fee people would accept if he has offers this summer - 15m? 20m? 30m?

Would need to be more than £17.5m just to clear his PSR amortisation, getting his wages off the books alone likely wouldn't cover the cost of his replacement + their wages.

 

[NZT-One]

Given we're now discussing the idea of extending his contract (something that 6 months was unthinkable)...

What is the minimum fee people would accept if he has offers this summer - 15m? 20m? 30m?

The more the marrier. I'd be happy with 10 though. Mind - we have to bring in somebody to fill his role in the squad which should be 3rd or 4th midfielder. Put him 4th or 5th if we really bring in for example Ederson.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Would need to be more than £17.5m just to clear his PSR amortisation, getting his wages off the books alone likely wouldn't cover the cost of his replacement + their wages.

We're on the hook for that next season whether he's with us or not. If we sell him, we at least get the wages (or some portion) off our books.

Any transfer fee is a net positive for next year's financials.

 

[NZT-One]

All of those points would be true if Casemiro leaving was going to materially change what we could or couldn't do in the transfer market. If we could get £30m of him I'd ride him on a bike there myself. As it is, nobody will buy him and we do lack experience in winning in the team. I view renewing him a bit in the same way I did us signing Eriksen, it's a relatively cheap way of filling a gap.

I see. And if Eriksen would have been brought in as a gap filler, your example would make even more sense. He was brought in though to seemingly get a starter position. Which was a mistake. I don't want to slag Casemiro off, he was a fantastic footballer and I am sure he still has a lot to offer. But probably is not what a team in our position needs, a team that is not even really functional. A team that simply cannot afford to carry a player, a team that struggles in athleticism already. Not in the PL. I see a role for him as 5th or 4th midfielder because we have to prepare for the future. But can we afford to pay so much money for such a player?

I think we paid about £40m more than we should have and paid him £150k more than we should have, and signed him for a year longer than we should have. That's £100m over his contract that was wasted. He's right up there with Sancho, Antony, Sanchez and Mount for me. If we do actually manage to get £25m for Sancho and £35m for Antony I'd say Casemiro is comfortably worse than those two as well.

The worst bit was he wasn't even the type of player we needed. He's had some good spells of form and one great spell of form, but the sheer amount of money involved was incomprehensibly stupid.

Yeah totally agree. And a bit of shame because I think, he was a great footballer and seems like a fantastic professional. It kind of speaks for him that he was up for the challenge and for rainy Manchester and I am still thankful for his contributions. But given what a mess we made in the past, in the present we have to be proactive when it comes to the future. And that means we have to invest not only money but time into players with the potential of becoming great players and starters for us.

 

[EtH]

We have Ugarte, who was brought in for a high fee and we have Mainoo who needs minutes if we want him to realize his potential. Half the redcafe wants to see Bruno play in CM (I personally don't but thats another topic) and most people on here think that we should go big on a really good midfielder in the summer. Casemiro is not our only quality central midfield option, I have no idea, what indicates that to you.

There were questions about Ugarte’s ability with the ball before his signing and he has done nothing this season to dispel them. He is a player who is only useful next to someone who can distribute the ball. You may call that quality but I don’t. Mainoo is more of a ball carrier who I think could develop with minutes as well but unfortunately the manager sees him as a 10 so not an option. Bruno for me is not a CM either but he can play there in the right setup I suppose. Until we sign someone else there is only Case who can orchestrate from deep. Every time he doesn’t play we look poorer for it. It’s clear as day.

 

[Red the Bear]

I proposed a Giggs style one year extension. Others proposed the two year idea. I think a year by year situation is preferable since it lowers the risk for the club.

That's basically what Madrid and modric have done and it's worked well for both parties so far.

 

[NZT-One]

There were questions about Ugarte’s ability with the ball before his signing and he has done nothing this season to dispel them. He is a player who is only useful next to someone who can distribute the ball. You may call that quality but I don’t. Mainoo is more of a ball carrier who I think could develop with minutes as well but unfortunately the manager sees him as a 10 so not an option. Bruno for me is not a CM either but he can play there in the right setup I suppose. Until we sign someone else there is only Case who can orchestrate from deep. Every time he doesn’t play we look poorer for it. It’s clear as day.

Casemiro has never been an orchestrator. Him being able to pull of a pass in behind from time to time doesn't make him an orchestrator. Also we don't really know if Amorim really looks for an orchestrator in midfield. At Sporting, those orchestrator jobs have been taken over by the CBs (from what I understand). The CMs were there to plug the gaps. No doubt, the other CM players we have playing there aren't perfect solutions but that doesn't make Casemiro a better player all of a sudden. He is slow and doesn't cover a lot of ground. In a team that already struggles with that issue.

Heck, I'd even give you the point - he may be the best CM we have if you want. Still doesn't mean we should keep him because it isn't as if our CM is anything good midfields are measured in.

 

[daba]

All of those points would be true if Casemiro leaving was going to materially change what we could or couldn't do in the transfer market. If we could get £30m of him I'd ride him on a bike there myself. As it is, nobody will buy him and we do lack experience in winning in the team. I view renewing him a bit in the same way I did us signing Eriksen, it's a relatively cheap way of filling a gap.


I think we paid about £40m more than we should have and paid him £150k more than we should have, and signed him for a year longer than we should have. That's £100m over his contract that was wasted. He's right up there with Sancho, Antony, Sanchez and Mount for me. If we do actually manage to get £25m for Sancho and £35m for Antony I'd say Casemiro is comfortably worse than those two as well.

The worst bit was he wasn't even the type of player we needed. He's had some good spells of form and one great spell of form, but the sheer amount of money involved was incomprehensibly stupid.

Would need to be more than £17.5m just to clear his PSR amortisation, getting his wages off the books alone likely wouldn't cover the cost of his replacement + their wages.

I assume you're taking the fee as the media reported £70m - I was going off the €60m quoted on Transfermarkt (as I just don't trust the fees the media label against our name as they always vary and are quoted at the very highest possible to grab headlines). If we're saying its £70m then I agree, we did overpay by at least £30m.

We're obviously discussing something that is subjective, but I still don't think you can put Casemiro in the same bucket as Antony, Sancho, Hojlund and Mount. Casemiro has actually contributed to us winning 2 maybe 3 trophies in his time, something that none of those can claim. Yes he was expensive, but he hasn't been a car crash transfer like you are claiming.

You refer to getting some money back on Sancho and maybe Antony, what about if we got £15-20m back for him from Saudi or the MLS this summer?

 

[EtH]

Casemiro has never been an orchestrator. Him being able to pull of a pass in behind from time to time doesn't make him an orchestrator. Also we don't really know if Amorim really looks for an orchestrator in midfield. At Sporting, those orchestrator jobs have been taken over by the CBs (from what I understand). The CMs were there to plug the gaps. No doubt, the other CM players we have playing there aren't perfect solutions but that doesn't make Casemiro a better player all of a sudden. He is slow and doesn't cover a lot of ground. In a team that already struggles with that issue.

Heck, I'd even give you the point - he may be the best CM we have if you want. Still doesn't mean we should keep him because it isn't as if our CM is anything good midfields are measured in.

You are seriously underrating Casemiro here. Sure he’s not Kroos or Modric but his distribution has always been excellent and he’s always had a killer pass in his locker as well. Not many in the world better on the ball than him over the course of his career. His legs are going sure and he’s not the player he once was but he is still a very useful player. And until we add one or two better options we’d be mad to get rid. It’s that simple.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Are there any reports? The midfield is one of the most important areas to strengthen for me and I haven't seen any links at all which is worrying. Ederson was the only one I saw in ~Jan.

There’s been murmurs and suggestions from Whitwell and others about the sort of deal we’re looking for in midfield. Age and physicality often come up but it feels like many are stopping short of, or don’t know, exact names.

I do think Cunha is a done deal, Delap less so, but until the outcome of the CL is decided I don’t think the club will allow any serious brief or action to be disclosed about other areas. It does no good for our negotiating position and if we then miss out it looks worse.

I’ll be amazed if our core of our window doesn’t look like:
ST
No10
CM

 

[Dion]

I see. And if Eriksen would have been brought in as a gap filler, your example would make even more sense. He was brought in though to seemingly get a starter position.

He was brought in because we needed a midfielder who could actually pass the ball, he clearly wasn't ever going to be a long term fixture in the team.

I assume you're taking the fee as the media reported £70m - I was going off the €60m quoted on Transfermarkt (as I just don't trust the fees the media label against our name as they always vary and are quoted at the very highest possible to grab headlines). If we're saying its £70m then I agree, we did overpay by at least £30m.

We're obviously discussing something that is subjective, but I still don't think you can put Casemiro in the same bucket as Antony, Sancho, Hojlund and Mount. Casemiro has actually contributed to us winning 2 maybe 3 trophies in his time, something that none of those can claim. Yes he was expensive, but he hasn't been a car crash transfer like you are claiming.

You refer to getting some money back on Sancho and maybe Antony, what about if we got £15-20m back for him from Saudi or the MLS this summer?

Firstly the fee on Transfermarkt is €70.65m and the fee was £60m+10m in bonuses. It was reported by Laurie in the Athletic and Simon Stone in the BBC.

 

[Dion]

We're on the hook for that next season whether he's with us or not. If we sell him, we at least get the wages (or some portion) off our books.

Any transfer fee is a net positive for next year's financials.

Happy to be corrected on this, but I'm pretty sure if we sell him before 30th June 2026 for less than £17.5m then we have to book the accounting loss for this year (which would mean this window). Which is why I pointed out his saved wages probably wouldn't be enough to cover the player needed to replace him.

 

[The Irish Connection]

We've come full circle here, but I'd say Angelo Stiller for a proper DM - passer replacement is my #1 (has a reasonable release clause).

Followed by Ederson if we want to just ball with two proper box to box mids.

Casemiro I'd just keep as a rotation option for the next season and say goodbye after that.

Agree on Stiller. He is decent defensively but among the elite passers out there, and seems to be reasonably priced. Would be a smart move.

 

[Red in STL]

It’s not unheard off for older players to start accepting contracts for less money

No it isn't, but the suggestion is that we give him a 2 year contract to replace the 1 year left on his existing contract for way less money, effectovely he'd be playing the 2nd year for next to nothing