Replacing Peter Schmeichel with Mark Bosnich

[Bastian]

The dumbest thing about it was that Buffon was brilliant at Parma at the time. There was also Toldo at Fiorentina, Peruzzi and Pagiluca.

Italy had some fabulously talented keepers at the time.

There were decent English keepers around too, Martyn at Leeds. The premier league had Given, Matt Poom at Derby.

Never rated Bosnich.

I remember feeling very underwhelmed back then too.

Sure, one of the best in the Prem. He wasn't close to Seaman, Nigel Martyn was better too. And, on a European level, the league back then wasn't all that. Yet we had just won the CL. We should have been recruiting from Europe, not the league. I think Keane makes the same point in his book. I know Serie A was the biggest draw, but we could still have shown more ambition. I remember the links to Thuram and Figo, knowing that those were unrealistic, but there was still serious talent we could have acquired. We could never really prize stars away from the continent, but we could sign those promising players, as we did with Stam and Ruud.

Edwards has a different version though:

Your manager who is proving his world class credentials wants to change his mind and a handshake leaves things done and dusted. Keane broke that type of an agreement with Blackburn to sign for SAF. Back then VDS was very highly valued. Mad if true.

 

[acnumber9]

Edwards has a different version though:

Yeah, no doubting the mans greatness but Sir Alex liked to bend the truth every now and again.

 

[witchtrials]

Seem to remember us being linked with Richard Wright. Could have been the next season though.

 

[POF]

He was just the wrong character for United. Bosnich is a really nice guy but he's a bit of a larrakin who enjoyed the night life. He probably wasn't a great influence on Dwight Yorke either.

On form he was an excellent keeper. The backpass rule really killed him though. He was awful with the ball at his feet.

Van der sar's success and Bosnich's failure both have a lot to do with timing. There's no doubt that joining United just as the back pass rule came in was bad for Bosnich. For Van der sar, coming into a team with Vidic and Rio in front of him was perfect. He didn't need to be spectacular, just solid and that suited him perfectly.

 

[redshaw]

I remember he was highly rated at Villa although I didn't think it was a good signing at the time but he let himself down and could've been better. I don't remember his kicking being so poor though at Villa, truly was embarrassing at OT with the delivery of Peter hands or feet.

Fergie had some odd choices with keepers. I was begging the football gods as a young lad to play Les Sealy, Jim Leighton was an abomination and couldn't understand how he was playing, seemed to take a while before Fergie dropped him. I was ecstatic when we signed VDS and knew we'd win the European Cup with him, such a great reach, a gold bar just laying on the street, which takes on to Barthez, one good season but after that absolutely woeful, he was too short and had this infuriating habit of diving backwards at an angle reducing his reach and I'd just shake my head after half arsed top corner shots would just sail past him.

 

[Amir]

Bosnich was strange cause at the time we weren't as tight on things in the market, were we?

We weren't such big spenders either. According to Fergie's autobigraphy, we only had 15m to spend in the summer of 1998 - and did that on Stam and Blomqvist. We got Yorke later in the summer while digging into next year's pot. So maybe we didn't get to the summer of 1999 with much to spend. And between Bosnich, Fortune and even the two emergency signings of Taibi and Silvestre, it was a rather skimpy summer.

 

[Amir]

Van der sar was waning abit as i recall, he seems to not have enough stardom and cause very little buzz i was shocked he signed for fulham as if his career is finished and he's half retired.

Let's be honest. Van der sar was seen as poor signing at that time. He's deeemd past it, old, and a stop gap solution at best. The rest is history but it wasnt a clear shot. He hardly rock the league at fulham too i recall.

Van Der Sar was fine in 1999. It's just that he went to Juve and didn't do so well there, so he ended up with Fulham. But his stock was high in 1999 when had was still at Ajax.

 

[Amir]

Van der sar's success and Bosnich's failure both have a lot to do with timing. There's no doubt that joining United just as the back pass rule came in was bad for Bosnich.

That rule came quite a few years before 1999... Bosnich did fine with it while he was playing for Villa.

 

[Hound Dog]

I was 11 at the time and remember being certain United would go for Toldo. Then a year later he has a great Euro and still no United offer.

I was puzzled to say the least.

 

[Reditus]

Bosnich at the time was one of the better keepers in the league it appeared a safe bet and he was free. As has been said the fact we kept winning leagues pretty much made it unimportant. Not demeaning the Keeper position, but it’s very possible have a great outfield side with a half arsed keeper, not sustainable but certainly possible as was proved in the gap between schemichel and van der sar

 

[b82REZ]

He was just the wrong character for United. Bosnich is a really nice guy but he's a bit of a larrakin who enjoyed the night life. He probably wasn't a great influence on Dwight Yorke either.

On form he was an excellent keeper. The backpass rule really killed him though. He was awful with the ball at his feet.

Van der sar's success and Bosnich's failure both have a lot to do with timing. There's no doubt that joining United just as the back pass rule came in was bad for Bosnich. For Van der sar, coming into a team with Vidic and Rio in front of him was perfect. He didn't need to be spectacular, just solid and that suited him perfectly.

Back pass rule came in in 92

 

[Luke1995]

Just curious as to why Barthez isn't more highly rated on here. Wasn't he France's first choice keeper for years ?

 

[Zen]

Just curious as to why Barthez isn't more highly rated on here. Wasn't he France's first choice keeper for years ?

Erractic, wild, flamboyant.... he was like the Alex Higgins of Premier League goalies, not entirely sure how he had ended up with 2 pretty stellar WC's in him, but over a short space of time he could in the zone. Season, not so much. Absolute nutter really, I liked him, but wouldn't go out of my way to buy him if I had high long term aspirations. Pulled off some absolute worldie hollywood saves too.

 

[Lj82]

Edwards has a different version though:

I recall SAF alluding that Edwards prefer Bosnich because he was on a free. Both versions are not mutually exclusive. It's just that they have different interpretations of the larger reason behind the signing

 

[arthurka]

Didn't Bosnich have a drug and drinking problems?

 

[Grande]

Yeah, Bosnich on the look of it was a lot more natural choice to than Schmeichel had been, one coming from Brøndby in the semi-professional Danish league and the other being one of the PL’s most touted goalkeepers, even on surface seeming like he had the confidence needed to play for United. Sir Alex was always a sucker for a good deal, and Bozzo seemed as good a deal as Big Pete, or better. Difference was one exploded and the other imploded.

One crucial element was, though, I think even the gaffer underestimated how central Schmeichels goal kicks and throws were for our aggressive and fast football playing on the break. Our attack literally struggled to get into space with the ball because they were used to Schmeichel distributing precisely to well within their half in half a second. As a result, the team play struggled, and I think Bosnich must have noticed that frustration more than even Taibi eere affected by his blunders.

It was a question of not doing enough homework, taking a Cantona-like punt, but it didn’t fly.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

You could also say 'Replacing Cristiano Ronaldo with Antonio Valencia' (though Valencia was a great player in his first few years for us, we needed far more).

Bosnich was strange cause at the time we weren't as tight on things in the market, were we?

Bringing in Valencia isn't a bad idea, the guy is assist machine at his best years and suit with Sir Alex's 442 or 4411 formation. We should had never sign Owen but sign a proper top goal scorer to replace Ronaldo & Tevez goal threats.

A goalkeeper on the other hand isn't an excuses. You can replace an outfield players with different type of player that suits different or new formation but a top keeper should be replaced by a top keeper or potential top keeper no matter what formation you want to use.

 

[Suedesi]

VDS went to Fulham though so obviously there were doubts over him and other teams were reluctant on him .

It's weird though out of Schmeichel, De Gea and Van De Saar i prefer Van De Saar i have to wonder just what he was doing at Fulham . I think he said he lost motivation at the time

VDS was thought to have had some issue with his eye - think glaucoma or something else - he made a bunch of glaring mistakes, and was discarded by Juve after his mistakes were perceived to have cost them the title. That's the season they sold Zidane, VdS and Inzaghi and bought Buffon, Nedved and Thuram.

 

[Luke1995]

Erractic, wild, flamboyant.... he was like the Alex Higgins of Premier League goalies, not entirely sure how he had ended up with 2 pretty stellar WC's in him, but over a short space of time he could in the zone. Season, not so much. Absolute nutter really, I liked him, but wouldn't go out of my way to buy him if I had high long term aspirations. Pulled off some absolute worldie hollywood saves too.

More suited to international than club football then

 

[SambaBoy]

The importance of GK's wasn't as big back then. We probably thought we could replace him with a half decent GK and it would be the same going forward. Apart from Buffon, no GK's were moving for significant money compared to outfield positions.

Nowadays their is a big emphasis on getting the GK right and you struggle to win trophies if you don't have a settled, reliable and talented GK.

 

[lsd]

Just curious as to why Barthez isn't more highly rated on here. Wasn't he France's first choice keeper for years ?

Hated him during his time here. Never convinced me at all he was good enough . He was the worst keeper i have ever seen in a 1 on 1 situation . Every time a player went through i had no hope at all that it would end in anything other than a goal .

Add his many mistakes and i was delighted to see him leave

 

[Snow]

Didn't Bosnich have a drug and drinking problems?

Massive. The summer he signed he almost missed his wedding because he was in jail. Got fined during his time with Villa for doing a Nazi salute. Really a blinder by SAF and Edwards to sign him.

 

[oz insomniac]

Bosnich is on tv here in Oz doing Aleague, he has said that the change in rules to make the goalkeeper use his feet was alien to him. Never bothered during his formative years as he played rugby league as his back up sport.

Certainly using his feet was terrible, possibly the best shot stopper at the time, the Club Championship game in Tokyo actually showed that, but being useless with the ball at his feet and going off the rails with model girlfriends saw his spiral down. Always wonder what those really good old time keepers like Stepney would have been like if forced to use their feet, changed their focus a fair bit.

 

[POF]

That rule came quite a few years before 1999... Bosnich did fine with it while he was playing for Villa.

Back pass rule came in in 92

Haha. Wow, my memory really is bad. Bosnich just looked like his time at United was the first time he'd ever kicked a ball.

 

[Class of 63]

In hindsight, read that thread title out loud to yourself. Its bonkers.

As would be reading it out loud to yourself

 

[RedRonaldo]

Bosnich was very good before he joins us, one of the best shot stopper in the game, and he is relatively young too. For some reason it just didn't turn out well for us.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Looking back at the situation now what I find even more bizarre is the fact Schmeichel left to join Sporting Lisbon, only to come back to the Premier League with Villa.

I vaguely remember his stating he left to get out of the lime light. He may have been past his best but surely an aging Schmeichel was better than Bosnich. Some could argue even Barthez, though he was the World Cup and Euro Cup Champion keeper at the time.

 

[MadDogg]

Bosnich was a very good goalkeeper who wasn't the best of professionals so may or may not have made it with us, but he was then destroyed by injuries as soon as he joined. A lot of mentions of his terrible passing and kicking ability, but part of that seemed to be the hamstring injuries he picked up multiple times after kicking the ball. He was never good at it, but after that started he didn't seem to have the confidence in his own body and it deteriorated significantly (same thing probably hurt his shot-stopping ability). The combination of injuries, pressure and the people he surrounded himself seemed to lead him into a position of poor mental health and drug use, and it all just spiralled out of control for him and to all intents and purposes his career ended after his first season with us.

 

[Siorac]

One crucial element was, though, I think even the gaffer underestimated how central Schmeichels goal kicks and throws were for our aggressive and fast football playing on the break. Our attack literally struggled to get into space with the ball because they were used to Schmeichel distributing precisely to well within their half in half a second. As a result, the team play struggled, and I think Bosnich must have noticed that frustration more than even Taibi eere affected by his blunders.

We scored 80 goals in the Premier League in 1998/99.

The next season, without Schmeichel, with Bosnich playing 23 games out of 38, we scored 97. It's still a club record over a 38 game season. You can say a lot of things but our attack didn't suffer with Bosnich, not one bit.

 

[lysglimt]

I don't think anyone could have expected Bosnich to be as bad as he was - because he was superb at Villa. But what really shocked me with Bosnich, was that he completely seemed unable to jump. I can't recall the game or the situation, but there was one match where Bosnich basically couldn't lift his feet more than 10 cm above the ground he was jumping. That was the moment I completely lost all faith in him

 

[Amir]

I vaguely remember his stating he left to get out of the lime light. He may have been past his best but surely an aging Schmeichel was better than Bosnich. Some could argue even Barthez, though he was the World Cup and Euro Cup Champion keeper at the time.

Not limelight. He was looking for a place where he would play less games. To be fair, he got that at Villa as well.

 

[Denis79]

Just curious as to why Barthez isn't more highly rated on here. Wasn't he France's first choice keeper for years ?

Reminded me of a french Higuita, entertaining but very erratic.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

It was supposed to be Edwin but Martin Edwards had already done a deal with Bosnich and wouldn't go back on it.

 

[Red00012]

You could start 10 threads with Replacing X with Y since Fergie left

 

[Grande]

We scored 80 goals in the Premier League in 1998/99.

The next season, without Schmeichel, with Bosnich playing 23 games out of 38, we scored 97. It's still a club record over a 38 game season. You can say a lot of things but our attack didn't suffer with Bosnich, not one bit.

If goals for an against were a valid measure of the goalkeepers attacking and defensive performance, I’d agree. But it’s just one of a flourishing of factors. The proof is in the eating of the pudding, not in the weighing of the whole restaurant.

I’m talking about what I saw. Schmeichel’s quick long and precise throws and kicks allowed us to oftentimes attack from high up the pitch, with much space and with many players behind the ball. That is a very defensively sound way to be attackminded if you can pull it of, and it was an important part of United’s game, not the only part. A part that didn’t work well at all until Barthez came. We had a fantastic team if you remember, back to front. We scored a whopping 97 as you said, and let in a whopping 45 (I think). It was not because Bosnich were so good starting attacks, nor because he was so bad at stopping shots. Quite the opposite. It had to do with how we played, and the risks we took when attacking. We were playing more high up the pitch, and had the players to break most teams down. It seemed, though as at times we struggled against really good and organized teams who would punish us for leaving spaces in defense, and who could contain our established play. Then it would be great to have that extra dimension in our counterplay, which we lacked.

 

[Hoof the ball]

What's May talking about with the backpass rule? It was implemented in the 92 season. Not as if Bosnich was wholly unfamiliar with it considering he was one of the best keepers in the PL with the backpass rule being a reality. Also, May mentioned about Bosnich have issues because teams were starting to play out from the back. By the time Bosnich joined it might not have been long ball city anymore, but we were still a good few years away from "pass it out" culture.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Yeah, that's probably why it goes more unnoticed. Remember reading Keane's book and he was gutted that we didn't improve the squad from a position of strength after winning the treble. And we were quite irrelevant in Europe for quite some time after '99. The standard of the league wasn't as good as the late 90s until Chelsea bought a 100 players and installed Mourinho, so we didn't really have great rivals.

Yeah. Everyone remembers the Ronaldo-Valencia summer (with good reason). But the summer of 99 was just as bad really.

If we'd bought a top-class striker, a CB to partner Stam and some backup for the midfield we could have dominated Europe for years. As it was we pinched the pennies and got an average GK on a free.

Obviously it was an amazing period to have followed United and we were incredibly fortunate to have witnessed it, but it's hard not to think the PLC were as much a hindrance as a help. Everyone moans about the Glazers but they were just as bad.

 

[PeteManic]

I personally always thought that they couldn't get anybody else.

 

[Siorac]

If goals for an against were a valid measure of the goalkeepers attacking and defensive performance, I’d agree. But it’s just one of a flourishing of factors. The proof is in the eating of the pudding, not in the weighing of the whole restaurant.

I’m talking about what I saw. Schmeichel’s quick long and precise throws and kicks allowed us to oftentimes attack from high up the pitch, with much space and with many players behind the ball. That is a very defensively sound way to be attackminded if you can pull it of, and it was an important part of United’s game, not the only part. A part that didn’t work well at all until Barthez came. We had a fantastic team if you remember, back to front. We scored a whopping 97 as you said, and let in a whopping 45 (I think). It was not because Bosnich were so good starting attacks, nor because he was so bad at stopping shots. Quite the opposite. It had to do with how we played, and the risks we took when attacking. We were playing more high up the pitch, and had the players to break most teams down. It seemed, though as at times we struggled against really good and organized teams who would punish us for leaving spaces in defense, and who could contain our established play. Then it would be great to have that extra dimension in our counterplay, which we lacked.

Your original post said "Our attack literally struggled to get into space with the ball" and "our team play struggled". That's simply not true in any way or form. We scored more goals, got more points, won more games than in 1998/99 - saying that our . We lost our heads against Real Madrid at Old Trafford even though that was a team that we really should have beaten. But it certainly wasn't because we missed Schmeichel's goalkicks.

 

[Sandikan]

We weren't such big spenders either. According to Fergie's autobigraphy, we only had 15m to spend in the summer of 1998 - and did that on Stam and Blomqvist. We got Yorke later in the summer while digging into next year's pot. So maybe we didn't get to the summer of 1999 with much to spend. And between Bosnich, Fortune and even the two emergency signings of Taibi and Silvestre, it was a rather skimpy summer.

Bearing in mind 15m was a world record fee only two years before, 15million wasn't exactly buttons back then.
Add in Yorke like you mention and almost 30m in one summer in 98 was huge