Road Trip Draft 2 Final: GSTQ vs Himannv

[Moby]

Welcome to the Road Trip Draft II FINAL.

Only the club career for the clubs mentioned against player names will be considered for evaluation. No national teams performances count whatsoever.
s

GSTQ

HIMANNV

TEAM GSTQ

Philosophy : Score more goals than the opponent. Dominate possession.

Attack: Nothing needs to be said. You simply can't better it. The lack of an holding midfielder in the opponent's team is suicidal against this attack. I know that playing 2 B2B midfielders is a drafts favorite, but against a team like this, you just can't afford to not have an holder.

Defense:

The idea is simple - Maintain a tight narrow shape where nothing goes through the centre and inside forward zones. Force the opponent to go out wide and put hopeful balls into the box.
Why does it make sense?

1. Pele's influence in the game is greatly reduced with the centre completely shutdown.
2. Jairzinho was a wing forward who constantly looked to run inwards to score goals. He wasn't exactly an orthodox winger.
3. Nedved while being super versatile was again not a touch line hugging winger. His best came when he influenced the game in the left central areas.
4. Kohler and Thuram are perfect as wide CB's
5. With all 3 CB's who were great in the air, we expect to win the headers from hopeful crosses into the box.

What if the fullbacks attack?

We'd be glad if they do. And here's why -

1. Fullbacks have to respect opponent's attackers. Facchetti for example could hardly contribute in attacks against attaclking sides with great wingers.
2. If they don't, they leave huge spaces on the counters.
3. While only one fullback attacks at one time is a general argument for this, one has to remember that Godin and Moore are not exactly wide covering defenders.
4. Davids/Tigana also can't afford to cover outwide with the lack of an holding midfielder.

What was wrong with the setup from the semifinal?

Nothing really. Replace Gerets with Cafu instead of Thuram and that is unbeatable. But that team was designed to beat the best team in the draft and it served its purpose. New game, new adventure.


TEAM HIMANNV

- "But Himannv, you need a plan of attack".

- Attacking fullbacks with proper wingers that can both cross or cut inside.
- Complimentary Pele + Seeler combination that brings out the best in Pele.
- High energy combative midfield.
- Defense led by Moore.

 

[Moby]

Good luck @GodShaveTheQueen @Himannv

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Good luck @GodShaveTheQueen @Himannv

Thanks for setting it up.

Good luck @Himannv

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Not sure if many people are aware of this, but Duncan Edwards wrote the above book called 'Tackle Soccer this way'

Below are a few excerpts from that book on his role. Its an excellent read. Remember he was 21 when he wrote this.

On the role of an Half back

These (the left and right half) are the link men, the men who make or break a side. Have a good defence, have a good attack, but have poor wing-halves linking them and the team loses half it’s efficiency. Their job is to stop the other sides inside-forwards fetching and carrying the ball – once they have done that the game is half won – and yet at the same time see that their own inside-forwards get as much of the ball as possible.

But before a ball is kicked or a tackle made, the keynote of this position is stamina. The wing-half is never still. Either he is foraging in his opponents’ half, or else back helping his own defence withstand pressure.

The main part of his defensive job is to keep check of those inside-forwards.

Yet obviously he cannot do it through close marking, in the way that the full-backs and centre-half do their job. Rather he has to rely on his own speed to get him back in defence once his own side has been suddenly robbed of the initiative.

His dominance of mid-field is the deciding factor in any match. When a line of forwards is sweetly and smoothly mounting an offensive, notice where the move starts. Invariably it is with some enterprising wing-half. Conversely, if a side’s attack is starved of the ball, watch and see who is winning the mid-field duels. It must be the other team.
The wing-half needs all the defensive skill, power of recovery and hardness of tackle of the full-back, yet he must ally these to the enterprise of the inside-forward.

On the attributes of an Half back

Two-footed he must be, for every reason under the sun. Not only must he be able to kick the ball hard with his left or right foot, but must be able to shoot too – powerfully and with complete control over direction.

He must have the initiative and confidence to burst through the middle suddenly when everybody on the other side is waiting for a pass. And when his side is piling on the pressure he must prowl just outside the goal area waiting for the pass or the loose ball that will enable him to fire in a shot when everyone else is crowded out.

Then his two-footedness is a prize asset is switching the direction of play suddenly. The wing-half moving away to his left can suddenly pivot on his right foot and slam a long ball away to his right-winger. There is nothing like a change in direction to splinter a defence.

On the Passing game of an Half back

However, most of the wing-half’s passes will go to his own wing man or inside-forward. Those to the inside-forward are generally of the push-and-run variety, and he should immediately move into a position for the return pass. The pass to the winger is harder, and wherever possible it should be masked.

Styles of wing-half differ greatly, depending on the needs of the team.

Some are allowed to concentrate on attack, while others are pulled back into a defensive role – particularly if the other side have an especially brilliant inside-forward who needs checking. Some play a delicate, probing type of football like Tottenham’s Danny Blanchflower, while others, like myself, recognise their strength and rely on power.
My own idea of the top class wing-half is that he should defend and attack with equal competence, and he should always remember that he is nearest thing to perpetual motion the game will ever see. It is a position that will sap a man’s strength both physically and mentally. Yet it is infinitely satisfying.

On the setup of the Busby Babes

Our five-forward plan is a searching test of stamina and fitness. We play one inside-forward – generally Bobby Charlton – about ten yards behind the rest of the forwards to establish a link with the wing-halves. Once Charlton has collected the ball, or it has been passed to another forward, he immediately moves into line with the rest of the attack, so that from a goal-keeper’s point of view Manchester United on the attack must look like a red tidal wave.

 

[Himannv]

Good luck @GodShaveTheQueen

Very pleased to see a formation like WM in a draft final. I do question Kohler's suitability to playing on the left against a winger. He normally favored his right foot. Of course, he's a top defender so should be able to play there, it just looked odd to me at first glance and seemed sort of shoehorned into the formation rather than being a very natural fit.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Good luck @GodShaveTheQueen

Very pleased to see a formation like WM in a draft final. I do question Kohler's suitability to playing on the left against a winger. He normally favored his right foot. Of course, he's a top defender so should be able to play there, it just looked odd to me at first glance and seemed sort of shoehorned into the formation rather than being a very natural fit.

He played there brilliantly for Juve. Including covering out wide. Currently on phone. Will share proof once am back on laptop.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

My main concern with Team Himannv is the lack of an holder.

And am really surprised Robson starts ahead of Tigana who was more defensive. The team really needs a holding midfielder like Clodoaldo was in 1970 Brazil.

Even with Tigana, I'd not have been fully satisfied but Robson for me is not a good idea here.

I can see Cruyff and Gullit running riot here in the hole.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

He played there brilliantly for Juve. Including covering out wide. Currently on phone. Will share proof once am back on laptop.

Plenty of Kohler - Juventus videos on Youtube but here is one instance for now that I created on the mobile.

Surprised by the shoe horned comment to be honest. I thought it was a well established fact that Kohler was excellent defending outwide considering he played the same role at multiple clubs (Dortmund/Juve) and of course the German national Team

 

[Himannv]

Personally I like the combination of Robson and Davids. Both are great defensively, both have high energy and I can easily see them taking turns with defensive duties.

I'm surprised by the criticism of Robson in particular because he could do it all really. Sir Bobby Robson described him as being three players in one: a tackler, a goal maker, and a goal taker. The likes of Gazza called him the ultimate midfielder. He also called him dog poo, because he was "everywhere".

Johnny Giles (his manager at West Brom) highlighted how good he was at reading the game and indicated he could even play the role that Moore played:

"I actually think that his best position would have been in the middle of a back four, like Bobby Moore. I think he could have played that role in his sleep, because Bryan wasn't particularly quick but he could read it well. It was just that he was too valuable a player in midfield to be given a defensive role. He played left-back for me at West Brom, but Bryan could play in most positions.

He was one of the best trackers in the game - when the opposing midfield player is on the ball, to track him is to get after him, get a tackle in, win the ball back. Bryan was also a very good header of the ball, and very brave when attacking the ball in the air in general."

Credit to @Synco and @Joga Bonito for the above.

Regarding his impact defensively:

"“This Sheffield United right-back was kicking me in one game, giving me a few verbals and it affected me a little bit. I said to Robbo: ‘That right-back’s just said he’s going to break my legs.’ Robbo said: ‘Did he? You come and play centre-midfield. I’m going to play left wing for 10 minutes.’ We swapped positions. Robbo soon came back: ‘Aye, you’re all right now, go back over’. Problem solved! I had this mentality that if Robson was playing we’d never lose. We usually won."

- Ryan Giggs

For me he's an engine by himself, but combine him with the Pitbull and I don't see anyone in the world having an easy game against those two.

 

[Physiocrat]

@GodShaveTheQueen The question is whether playing at LCB in a back 5 is different than playing with a winger rather than a wing-back? I think it probably is as the CB will be consistently be pulled wide whereas in an organised defensive phase they will be somewhat more central. Either way I really like what you're trying to do here and exploit the lack of a dedicated holder.

 

[Synco]

To me, Davids and Robson seem like a duo well capable of providing the necessary compactness and steel in the center.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I'm surprised by the criticism of Robson in particular because he could do it all really. Sir Bobby Robson described him as being three players in one: a tackler, a goal maker, and a goal taker. The likes of Gazza called him the ultimate midfielder. He also called him dog poo, because he was "everywhere".

Its not a criticism of the player but of the tactical setup to be honest.

The definition of a holding midfielder is someone who stays at his place and holds the fort letting everyone do what they want and be everywhere (like Robson) was.

He is the one who is expected to a cover at every point in the hole no matter where everyone else is.

Robson could be everywhere. Exactly my point. He could be at the edge of the box attacking when the ball is lost and a counter breaks out. He can't do much here for example. That is where a holder becomes necessary.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

@GodShaveTheQueen The question is whether playing at LCB in a back 5 is different than playing with a winger rather than a wing-back? I think it probably is as the CB will be consistently be pulled wide whereas in an organised defensive phase they will be somewhat more central. Either way I really like what you're trying to do here and exploit the lack of a dedicated holder.

I'd recommend the OP in case you havent gotten a chance to read it yet. I don't want him at the touchline to be man marking the winger. I am okay if Nedved and Jairzinho take it out wide and ping balls in. I have already mentioned that in the OP.

Yea, its high risk, but that is what a WM is. A high risk high reward formation. On my part I have put three very good headers of the ball there to keep hopeful crosses out.

The idea is simple - Maintain a tight narrow shape where nothing goes through the centre and inside forward zones. Force the opponent to go out wide and put hopeful balls into the box.
Why does it make sense?

1. Pele's influence in the game is greatly reduced with the centre completely shutdown.
2. Jairzinho was a wing forward who constantly looked to run inwards to score goals. He wasn't exactly an orthodox winger.
3. Nedved while being super versatile was again not a touch line hugging winger. His best came when he influenced the game in the left central areas.
4. Kohler and Thuram are perfect as wide CB's
5. With all 3 CB's who were great in the air, we expect to win the headers from hopeful crosses into the box.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

To me, Davids and Robson seem like a duo well capable of providing the necessary compactness and steel in the center.

I am not surprised by the assessment as two B2B's seem to be a draft favorite here (or anywhere else) whereas in real life, against Goat No.10's or even the non Goat ones who could take the game at you, you'd hardly ever see a team without an holder. It would be suicidal.

Drafters have a tendency to leverage the best out of each position and two balanced B2B's make so much sense in the imaginary world. They can contribute going ahead and they can cover behind. Oh, we are good to go!

In real games against Goat No.10's though, it would never work.

 

[Himannv]

Sounds extremely risky to me to allow Nedved and Jairzinho to ping balls in at will. They also have Brehme and Zanetti to support them and I fancy both Seeler and Pele to eventually get on the end of those chances.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Sounds extremely risky to me to allow Nedved and Jairzinho to ping balls in at will

Of course its risky. That is what the WM is. A high risk high reward strategy. But I'd be really happy with Pele shutdown and Nedved/Jairzinho being forced outwide to rely on hopeful crosses.

Neither were orthodox wingers anyways, it wasn't the best part of their game.

They also have Brehme and Zanetti to support them

Just in case you havent read the OP.

What if the fullbacks attack?

We'd be glad if they do. And here's why -

1. Fullbacks have to respect opponent's attackers. Facchetti for example could hardly contribute in attacks against attaclking sides with great wingers.
2. If they don't, they leave huge spaces on the counters.
3. While only one fullback attacks at one time is a general argument for this, one has to remember that Godin and Moore are not exactly wide covering defenders.
4. Davids/Tigana also can't afford to cover outwide with the lack of an holding midfielder.

I fancy both Seeler and Pele to eventually get on the end of those chances.

While I would expect my CB's all of whom were great in the air to do well, I dont expect to keep a clean sheet. There will be goals and I want to outscore you

Again, from the OP

Philosophy : Score more goals than the opponent. Dominate possession.

 

[Physiocrat]

@GodShaveTheQueen Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Synco]

I am not surprised by the assessment as two B2B's seem to be a draft favorite here (or anywhere else) whereas in real life, against Goat No.10's or even the non Goat ones who could take the game at you, you'd hardly ever see a team without an holder. It would be suicidal.

Drafters have a tendency to leverage the best out of each position and two balanced B2B's make so much sense in the imaginary world. They can contribute going ahead and they can cover behind. Oh, we are goods to go!

In real games against Goat No.10's though, it would never work.

Hm, this fixation on supposedly rigid player types is more of an imaginary argument to me than Davids and Robson covering for each other's advances. I defended your midfield selection in the semis on the same grounds.

In my understanding, it's primarily a matter of maintaining a good team shape, and players reacting properly to each others' movement, providing balance and support. Without a good team shape, a holding midfielder would be lost as well. But a good team shape assumed, there's no reason not to play this midfield duo, imo.

-----

I'm also not convinced by your argument against advancing fullbacks (I had that exact same argument over liberos several times): It takes full credit for the counter threat of your winger, but zero credit for the opposition team's attacking threat - and they have the ball. Could you give a more detailed plan on how the advancing FB is to be defended, especially since you face a double threat on your undermanned wing?

And the argument really goes both ways: Just as your winger pushes back the fullback in possession, that fullback pushes back your winger in possession, making counter prevention much easier. Except when the winger doesn't track the fullback, but that doesn't seem very wise to me, all the more so in a system such as yours.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Hm, this fixation on supposedly inflexible player types is more of an imaginary argument to me than Davids and Robson covering for each other's advances

Except, that perfect sync is near impossible to achieve. A dedicated holder doesn't need to constantly reassess where he needs to be.

Against GOAT No. 10's, it not just about covering each others advances but also about constantly covering the No.10.

You can't have them out of your sight. You constantly need to track your position with respect to theirs.

That cant be done with a switch between B2B's.

All this argument is without even considering that there are two inside forwards and not one. If one is covering Gullit, who is covering Cruyff?

I defended your midfield selection in the semis on the same grounds.

Not really. I had a dedicated holder in Bastian in a 4-3-3. This is no where near same.

I'm also not convinced by your argument against advancing fullbacks (I had that exact same argument over liberos several times): It takes full credit for the counter threat of your winger, but zero credit for the opposition team's attacking threat - and they have the ball. Could you give a more detailed plan on how the advancing FB is to be defended, especially since you face a double threat on your undermanned wing?

That is completely untrue. Zanetti and Brehme will ping balls in from outwide just like Nedved and Jairzinho would and I would want to put them out. Centrally, they are going no where in to that 5 man shield. You could put 5 men out on the wing if you want, only one of them would still be pinging the ball in.

You are putting words in my mouth, I have never said the opposition's attack wont score. I just admitted to that in the last post.

While I would expect my CB's all of whom were great in the air to do well, I dont expect to keep a clean sheet. There will be goals and I want to outscore you

Is this giving zero credit?

And the argument really goes both ways: Just as your winger pushes back the fullback in possession, that fullback pushes back your winger in possession, making counter prevention much easier. Except when the winger doesn't track the fullback, but that doesn't seem very wise to me, all the more so in a system such as yours.

I wouldnt call it not wise. I would call it not safe. Its risky, but its opens up spaces on the counter and that is what I want.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I am not surprised by the assessment as two B2B's seem to be a draft favorite here (or anywhere else) whereas in real life, against Goat No.10's or even the non Goat ones who could take the game at you, you'd hardly ever see a team without an holder. It would be suicidal.

Drafters have a tendency to leverage the best out of each position and two balanced B2B's make so much sense in the imaginary world. They can contribute going ahead and they can cover behind. Oh, we are good to go!

In real games against Goat No.10's though, it would never work.

Its not a good idea to draw parallels with real life because in that game N10 died a slow death ages ago yet in drafts we still wank ourselves silly over the idea of one.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Its not a good idea to draw parallels with real life because in that game N10 died a slow death ages ago yet in drafts we still wank ourselves silly over the idea of one.

I am sorry, I don't understand what you mean to say.

Or was this a joke that has gone completely over my head

 

[Moby]

Not really. I had a dedicated holder in Bastian in a 4-3-3. This is no where near same.

Surely Davids has better defensive credentials than Schweinsteiger?

 

[Synco]

I had a dedicated holder in Bastian in a 4-3-3. This is no where near same.

I meant the issue of supposedly rigid player types. Part of that argument against your setup was that Charles and Gullit were "not real CMs", and incapable of doing the things you wanted them to do because of their "player type". Whilst I've seen especially Charles do exactly that in real life footage. Just as I've seen Davids doing what he's supposed to do here. And heavily suspecting Robson to be capable of that as well.

That is completely untrue. Zanetti and Brehme will ping balls in from outwide just like Nedved and Jairzinho would and I would want to put them out.

Don't you think they'd act a little more flexible than that when having numerical superiority in that area? I'd expect Nedved/Brehme and Jairzinho/Zanetti to have something up their sleeves with that much freedom.

On the first part of your post: I'd have to think about it some more, but it seems to me you're again making the same basic point I've criticized about the fullbacks. A mixup of offensive and defensive phase, where your player can just wait for the counter without disadvantages. But maybe I just don't get it. To avoid an endless back & forth, I'll wait if other posters add something.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I am sorry, I don't understand what you mean to say.

Or was this a joke that has gone completely over my head

maybe its a joke but it wasnt meant to be
What i meant to say is that in real football number 10 position evolved: wide playmakers, false nines, 8/10 hybrids so the classic number 10 of old are gone from the game where in drafts they are still at top of the food chain and popular with all of us.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Surely Davids has better defensive credentials than Schweinsteiger?

Again, we are not talking about player qualities.We are talking about the tactics.

Davids was hardly a holder at any club he played. (Rijkaard at Ajax, Deschamps at Juve as holders for example).

Schweinsteiger was an holder at same stage in his career and did it very well.

Its not about whether Davids is better or Edwards is. Or if Bastian is better or Robson is.

Its about the tactics and the setup. I am not criticizing any player. I am criticizing the manager @Himannv

The criticism as mentioned several times being the lack of an holder.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

maybe its a joke but it wasnt meant to be
What i meant to say is that in real football number 10 position evolved: wide playmakers, false nines, 8/10 hybrids so the classic number 10 of old are gone from the game where in drafts they are still at top of the food chain and popular with all of us.

Well, to be fair, Cruyff and Gullit could hardly be put in any one bracket. They tick all the creative boxes.

Maybe I could use a better name instead of the No.10 but you get the drift I suppose.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Well, to be fair, Cruyff and Gullit could hardly be put in any one bracket. They tick all the creative boxes.

Maybe I could use a better name instead of the No.10 but you get the drift I suppose.

ohh it was just a response for your b2b comparison with real life, nothing with this game specifically.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I meant the issue of supposedly rigid player types. Part of that argument against your setup was that Charles and Gullit were "not real CMs", and incapable of doing the things you wanted them to do because of their "player type". Whilst I've seen especially Charles do exactly that in real life footage. Just as I've seen Davids doing what he's supposed to do here. And heavily suspecting Robson to be capable of that as well.

Except, Charlton and Gullit were not dealing with a No.10. They were dealing with midfielders. And unlike Davids/Robson here, they had support from the likes of Figo/Muller/Cruyff off the ball.

The nuances of dealing with a midfielder are very different than the ones while dealing with an attacker.

Don't you think they'd act a little more flexible than that when having numerical superiority in that area? I'd expect Nedved/Brehme and Jairzinho/Zanetti to have something up their sleeves with that much freedom.

Like what? If they cut in, I would trust my 5 man shield to protect me.

On the first part of your post: I'd have to think about it some more, but it seems to me you're again making the basic same point I've criticized about the fullbacks. A mixup of offensive and defensive phase, where your player can just wait for the counter without disadvantages

Dude, stop saying the bold part again and again. When have I said there are no disadvantages?

I have mentioned a dozen times now that its a high risk high reward strategy and the opposition will score. I just want to outscore them.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

ohh it was just a response for your b2b comparison with real life, nothing with this game specifically.

Oh you don't vote on any of my games anyways (I mean for either team). Pointless engaging you

Why is that by the way? We already have very low number of votes in games and all the playing managers should at least vote unless they think its a draw.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Oh you don't vote on any of my games anyways (I mean for either team). Pointless engaging you

Why is that by the way? We already have very low number of votes in games and all the playing managers should at least vote unless they think its a draw.

struggle to separate teams in most games so i rarely vote

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

struggle to separate teams in most games so i rarely vote

I call bullshit, but that's your choice

 

[Synco]

Except, Charlton and Gullit were not dealing with a No.10. They were dealing with midfielders. And unlike Davids/Robson here, they had support from the likes of Figo/Muller/Cruyff off the ball.

The nuances of dealing with a midfielder are very different than the ones while dealing with an attacker.

I didn't make an analogy between your CM in that game, and Himannv's in this. Again: it was about the general issue of pigeonholing players according to some shallow "player type" label, and declaring them incapable of whatever on that basis.

Davids was a proper, proper defensive player. All I've heard & seen from Robson suggests he was no mug either, to put it carefully.

Dude, stop saying the bold part again and again. When have I said there are no disadvantages?

I just assumed that you don't want to be *too* open. Mistakenly so, it seems.

 

[Moby]

Schweinsteiger was an holder at same stage in his career and did it very well

His peak came with the likes of Gustavo and Martinez next to him who played as DMs. Majority of his influence was in controlling the game and going forward. He started off as a winger.

Davids played in an uber defensive Serie a where he would spend majority of his time in breaking play and setting off. His physical capabilities that is extreme pace and power along with top level tackling makes him an ideal candidate to face a player like Gullit.

In short looking at the setups I see Pele facing the least amount of midfield resistance in this match.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I'll respond in a while guys. Just stepped out for a smoke.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I call bullshit, but that's your choice

ok, then vote for himan as i think you will struggle in wide areas against overlapping Zanetti and Brehme.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

ok, then vote for himan as i think you will struggle in wide areas against overlapping Zanetti and Brehme.

I don't mind that. I knew before the game started that I won't win. I probably wouldn't have voted for myself as a neutral

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Alright, coming back to the discussion.

I didn't make an analogy between your CM in that game, and Himannv's in this. Again: it was about the general issue of pigeonholing players according to some shallow "player type" label, and declaring them incapable of whatever on that basis.

I have not done the bolded part. I am questioning the tactics and not the player. I think the setup needs a holder, irrespective of who the B2B midfielders are.

I just assumed that you don't want to be *too* open. Mistakenly so, it seems.

Aye, mistakenly so. It is an open setup except centrally.

His peak came with the likes of Gustavo and Martinez next to him who played as DMs. Majority of his influence was in controlling the game and going forward. He started off as a winger.

I was not using his best version perhaps. But you cant question the fact that he did play as a holder without much defensive support (like with Kroos and Muller with him in midfield)

Davids played in an uber defensive Serie a where he would spend majority of his time in breaking play and setting off.

This isn't a defensive setup is it.

I again dont question his capabilities at breaking up play. I guess I am not getting my point across well.

an ideal candidate to face a player like Gullit.

So he is expected to cover for both Gullit and Cruyfff because surely both Robson and Davids are not sitting as pivots at the same time I suppose?

In short looking at the setups I see Pele facing the least amount of midfield resistance in this match.

This part I disagree with. I think Pele is well covered by the central shield.

 

[Synco]

I have not done the bolded part. I am questioning the tactics and not the player. I think the setup needs a holder, irrespective of who the B2B midfielders are.

In the situation you described (oppo team in possession, one CM moving up), what's the difference between a holder and the midfield partner temporarily acting as a covering DM?

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

In the situation you described (oppo team in possession, one CM moving up), what's the difference between a holder and the midfield partner temporarily acting as a covering DM?

The problem is achieving the perfect sync.

Its not one move where Robson goes forward and it either results in a goal or the ball is lost.

There will be spells where one team might launch multiple attacks in the same span of possession while still not scoring.

Players will be transitioning from one role/position to another one.

Ball will be moved from one wing to another (Davids will be more attacking on left and Robson on right).

In all this, its miles better to have a constant tracker for a No.10 rather than a constantly switching one which can lead to the whole thing breaking with one transition failing.

If you constantly want one of them to be holding, why play 2 B2B's in the first place? What do you achieve by playing 2 B2B midfielders?

The whole point is it smooth-ens the attacking flow from one side to another and from back to front.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

@Synco

What do you think of Cruyff and Gullit in the hole?

Do you think 1 B2B being the 'temporary DM' as you put it is enough? Isn't that an overload as well?