Road Trip Draft II 1st Round: EAP vs Jim Beam

Who will win based on all the players at their club career peak as mentioned?


  • Total voters
    17
  • Poll closed .

Moby

Dick
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
51,356
Location
Barcelona, Catalunya
Welcome to the Road Trip Draft II KO Stage.

Only the club career for the clubs mentioned against player names will be considered for evaluation. No national teams performances count whatsoever.



VS




TEAM EAP


As obvious, the team is built around Lothar Matthaus at Inter.

Umm...I don't quite know how to put his role into words, really — heroic might be the right descriptive term? You could say that he was a cross between Gerrard and Ballack and Lampard with a dash of Cantona — neither a pure midfielder nor an attacker, but a bit of both — like the former trio, particularly Gerrard, he was afforded some tactical concessions to affect multiple aspects of the team, and was a hugely inspirational figure.

DEFENCE:

- Neville Southall, a classic shot stopper with excellent reactions and comfortable out of box mans the goal.
- Lizarazu and Cafu are a top notch balanced fullback duo, defensively solid and able to provide width all game.
- A solid CB duo with Schulz's intelligence and positioning complimenting well with Shesternyov's pace and awareness.

MIDFIELD:

- Matthaus in free #10-ish role, not quite a attacker, not quite a midfielder, but a hybrid of both.
- Nobby Stiles, a destroyer with ability to recycle possession takes over defensive duties and shields the defence.
- Wim van Hanegem returns to his peak position of a defensive B2B. A genius passer of the ball from the deep, he'll dictate the play from the midfield.

ATTACK:

- Rivaldo plays a Left Forward role with freedom to drift outside and cut inside as necessary. With Lizarazu and van Hanegem behind him to provide support, he'll be free to cause havoc.
- Zlatan plays the lead man here. A complete forward, his finishing and ability to open spaces for other forwards will result in a flexible hard to contain attack.
- Brian Laudrup, a classy and versatile winger in his favourite right sided free role. Both able to drift out and provide width or cut in and score himself. He provides the perfect partnership to oncoming Matthaus.



TEAM JIM BEAM


Tactics: 3-2-3-2 with Di Stefano operating between the lines; Why? Well, because I never pulled such tactics in the draft, so why the hell not. And I have The Don as a central figure in my team.

Strategy: Go blow for blow. Outwork, outscore and outplay the opponent. Have more possession, but use it with purpose playing direct football with quick interchanges.

Playing style: high-tempo, aggressive, fluid


The team will be run by one of the most special players the world has ever seen, also known as „Don Alfredo“ or the „Blond Arrow“ who had a unique ability to completely steal the game with his rhythm and dynamism.

This is the Don version from Spain who helped inspire Madrid to 8 Spanish league titles and 5 European Cups between 1953 and 1964 or the man who made Real Madrid the biggest force in world football.





Di Stefano Real Madrid stats: 396 games/307 goals or 0.78 goals per game and all that while dictating the game and contributing in both defensive and offensive phase of the game like no other player before or after him. If this was basketball you would easily call Di Stefano the best 2-way player the world has ever seen.

In the attacking phase Di Stefano will be helped by one of the greatest strikers of all time and 3 times Ballon d'Or winner Marco van Basten or the "Ultimate center-forward" and one of the greatest Italian players of all time in Roberto Baggio flanked by Tom Finney and Luis Figo.
The goal is, as I said, to blow the other team out of the water with so much attacking talent and constant pressure.


Will Baggio and Di Stefano work? Baggio plays the role of second or supporting striker further up the pitch or the role in which he operated for the large parts of his career without the need of dropping deep and letting Di Stefano running the show behind while he is linking with him, van Basten and the upcoming Figo and Finney on the flanks.

Baggio in his prime operating at the very top, or alongside Gianluca Vialli in a 6-1 demolition of Lazio in 1993/94 season as a perfect example of how he will work in this team.

In terms of intelligence and link up play Di Stefano – Baggio – van Basten has immense potential, especially if you count the danger that is on the flanks which will stretch the opposition.


Behind them, Keane and Netto with the help of Di Stefano will grab hold of the midfield while the defensive trio of Tresor, Lahm and Schnellinger will hold the last line. All three of them, aside from being great defenders, were fantastic with the ball (which is the quality throughout the whole first 11) and which will massively help in terms of building from the back.
 
Last edited:

2mufc0

Everything is fair game in capitalism!
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
17,015
Supports
Dragon of Dojima
It’s working for me
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
28,027
Location
Moscow
Van Hanegem’s club peak was definitely not as a defensive b2b. He didn’t have Cruyff at Feyenoord, so he was much more involved in the attacking third. He’ll be fine in this set up but he’ll have to ignore his manager’s instructions!
 

GodShaveTheQueen

We mean it man, we love our queen!
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Messages
6,434
Do Stefano vs Matthaus!

A battle for the ages. Would give good money to watch that.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
41,425
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
Van Hanegem’s club peak was definitely not as a defensive b2b. He didn’t have Cruyff at Feyenoord, so he was much more involved in the attacking third. He’ll be fine in this set up but he’ll have to ignore his manager’s instructions!
Fair point.

To clarify, he is not restricted to being a defensive midfielder. Hi strength has always been driving the ball from the deep and passing range from midfield and that's what he'll do here. Of the two of them, Matthaus will make more runs into the box.

As to opposition, I believe none of their defenders played in the indicated roles in their peak for the league.
 
Last edited:

Jim Beam

Gets aroused by men in low socks
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
13,077
Location
All over the place
Good luck @Jim Beam hope you are drunk and plastered ;)
Am not. But, have tons of work, so not sure how much will I contribute. Feel free to go full speed and don't pay attention to that. Oh, and best of luck mate.

My thoughts about the game and I will cover as many as I can:
- there will be goals, maybe lots of them, and obviously with that kind of attacking arsenal I personally think I could do more damage
- I think having proper wingers would hurt my defence much more. Rivaldo isn't that and likes to cut in going more centrally, while Laudrup did love that role, but I definitely don't rate him that highly in an all-time sense and think he can be contained (good to see him though, was one of my favorite players as I was growing up for some reason)
- Love the role of Matthaus, but I feel he will have more problems going through that midfield of Netto and Keane than Di Stefano through Stiles, especially as your defence will be stretched on the flanks and with Baggio/Van Basten upfront
- You have great FB's and Lizarazu has a fantastic record against Figo which will negate some of my danger from the flanks, especially when you count Cafu also on the other side
- Your GK is better than mine, Antonio Roma is Boca Juniors legend, played all career there winning Argentine league for 5 times and had a record of keeping his goal clear for 783 minutes during 1969 chamionship run which was broken later. Was a first choice Argentina keeper for around 10 years. Saying that, Neville Southall is just better (wanted to intruduce Roma a bit more if anyone is interested)
- Don't particularly like Schulz - Shesternyov combo. They were both sweepers and Shesternyov certainly can play the role of classic CB, but I don't think it is ideal. More proven and greater CB-s would have problem with Van Basten-Baggio-Di Stefano coming behind than that pair.
- I don't rate Ibrahimovic in an all-time sense at all and Tresor is a kind of CB you would like to have against him. This is my personal opinion, some will disagree, but I always thought he is overrated.

As to opposition, I believe none of them played in the indicated roles in their peak for the league.
Roma was a goalkeeper, so you are instantly wrong here. ;)

On a serious note, I know that the formation is used very rarely here, but really? Netto, Tresor, Finney, Baggio, van Basten, Di Stefano, Figo are not comfortable in their roles? Keane, Schnellinger and Lahm can't play theirs? Lahm is only one debatable in this sense imo, but I would always rather have great defensive RB in that role and in this formation. He is a great defender and also great with the ball which is one of the primary reason he is here. I feel that the formation can be hurt by GOAT or brilliant wingers, but you don't have ones.

Anyway, up to voters. Will try to come back later into the discussion when I find some time.
 

Šjor Bepo

Wout is love, Wout is life; all hail Wout!
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
15,655
Van Hanegem’s club peak was definitely not as a defensive b2b. He didn’t have Cruyff at Feyenoord, so he was much more involved in the attacking third. He’ll be fine in this set up but he’ll have to ignore his manager’s instructions!
Tbf the best defensive display i saw from him was in a feyenoord shirt.
 

Šjor Bepo

Wout is love, Wout is life; all hail Wout!
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
15,655
Its a shame edgar is playing without a striker, good team otherwise.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
41,425
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
Netto, Tresor, Finney, Baggio, van Basten, Di Stefano, Figo are not comfortable in their roles? Keane, Schnellinger and Lahm can't play theirs?
Oops, I was about your defensive line only. Edited my post :lol:

Schnellinger and Lahm can't play theirs?
Not that they can't play theirs, but if you are going by league peak, it was not their peak position. If we are going by "can also play" argument, then you have to admit they can play but not at their peak.
 

Šjor Bepo

Wout is love, Wout is life; all hail Wout!
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
15,655
Come on. There is a big gap after R9, Muller and van Basten, but Zlatan fits in to the next tier below them. Also a big game player to boot. Not just a finished, I needed someone who can open spaces and get others into play and he's perfect for the role.
Id say he is total opposite of a big game player and i dont rate him one bit....in fact i see him as probably most overrated player ever, sorry :( dont think many have the same view so you are sorted :)
 

Moby

Dick
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
51,356
Location
Barcelona, Catalunya
I would definitely have Van Hanegem ahead of Matthaus.

I've never agreed having 2 CMs behind him despite his role at Inter. That was a massively defensive team and if you are replicating that you aren't gonna win much against teams loaded with GOATs. Matthaus should always be the one equally contributing in defense and attack, with ideally a DM behind him and a #10 ahead of him. He's the best two way midfielder out there and people just keep shoving him as a glorified Yaya Toure who needs two CMs alongside/behind him to go forward.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
41,425
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
I would definitely have Van Hanegem ahead of Matthaus.

I've never agreed having 2 CMs behind him despite his role at Inter. That was a massively defensive team and if you are replicating that you aren't gonna win much against teams loaded with GOATs. Matthaus should always be the one equally contributing in defense and attack, with ideally a DM behind him and a #10 ahead of him. He's the best two way midfielder out there and people just keep shoving him as a glorified Yaya Toure who needs two CMs alongside/behind him to go forward.
From what I remember during his Inter years he did not have a #10 ahead of him. For the same period, his stint with NT (WC 1990) also did not feature a #10 ahead of him. Though his Inter and NT roles were tactically different during same (peak) period, it always has been in a midfield 3 with no #10 ahead. Why do you think he needs a #10 ahead in drafts when he didn't need one in real life?

Also even during his Inter stink, he was not a AM. He had equal responsibilities but was osle playmaker. Here he has van Hanegem to share in playmaking durites making him arguable more balanced in his contribution.
 

Moby

Dick
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
51,356
Location
Barcelona, Catalunya
From what I remember during his Inter years he did not have a #10 ahead of him. For the same period, his stint with NT (WC 1990) also did not feature a #10 ahead of him. Though his Inter and NT roles were tactically different during same (peak) period, it always has been in a midfield 3 with no #10 ahead. Why do you think he needs a #10 ahead in drafts when he didn't need one in real life?
Which is why I wrote I don't see the need to replicate that Inter team, which was an incredibly defensive unit and barely had the riches a draft manager can afford.

You should consider the player's skillset and unless you have any doubt that Matthaus can play a box to box role with equal defensive and attacking responsibility without any issue then there's no need to have two more defensive minded CMs (talking about how he's generally used not your team) just to have him making a few more runs into the box. It's far better for any team to have a attacking #10 ahead of him who can be tasked with the creative duties primarily with Matthaus being a fantastic secondary option from midfield as a creator/runner. That's a far better use of him in my opinion, and having one DM behind him is more than enough to provide that freedom.

Coming to your team which isn't exactly the case as above, it would be fine having Matthaus and Van Hanegem here as WvH was a advanced creative midfielder during his club career hence it makes sense to have him as the most advanced and creative player here with Matthaus dominating the centre of the pitch.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
41,425
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
Coming to your team which isn't exactly the case as above, it would be fine having Matthaus and Van Hanegem here as WvH was a advanced creative midfielder during his club career hence it makes sense to have him as the most advanced and creative player here with Matthaus dominating the centre of the pitch.
Honestly I don't think WvH's task at Feyenoord was any different from Matthaus at Inter. Both were midfielders in a 4-3-3 tasked with creativity. They are both creative #8. The way they went about the task was what made them different. Difference is WvH was a better passer/distributor from the midfield(lacked pace to make a true B2B) and Lothar was better at making late runs into box....and that's what they are tasked with here.

Both are complete players. WvH was main creator at Feyenoord and played support with Neeskens in NT. Matthaus was main creator in Inter and played deeper with NT...all within the same respective peak period.

Perhaps the defensive B2B comment in OP is throwing people off. The second half is what defines his role clearly.

A genius passer of the ball from the deep, he'll dictate the play from the midfield.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

We mean it man, we love our queen!
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Messages
6,434
Usually this costs me votes in my games, but here are some harsh points from my end.

On team EAP, he has built it spot on but the quality needs to be way more higher. Picking France Ibra in R4 and picking Salah ahead of Tom fecking Finney was really strange in my eyes. I did PM that to Edgar during the course of drafting of course. Finney and a better striker there and that is leaps and bounds better.

On team Jim, if last draft he nailed stuff to the head, this draft he went from repeating it till half way into the drafting to getting way too adventurous along the way creating an unbalanced team. I won't repeat the Baggio and Di Stefano stuff but I think that defense is just not good enough, especially one player I am a huge fan of, Marius Tresor.

I was scouting him but didn't pick him because I didn't find his Ligue 1 career that good. Checked all league tables and his teams never looked strong defensively conceding a fair lot. I think his National team performances add a lot of weight to his reputation and of course he might have been leaps and bounds ahead of every other French CB in that era. I don't know to be honest I haven't watched too much of his Ligue 1 career. Maybe some expert can try filling in but I wouldn't bank on Tresor to pull of a defensive master class here. I maybe wrong but I am just putting in what I know.

I am chickening out of voting as one team got the tactics right and the other is leaps and bounds better quality wise. Cheers.
 
Last edited:

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
41,425
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
I am chickening out of voting as one team got the tactics right and the other is leaps and bounds better quality wise. Cheers.
It's not just names, but what was Lahm's peak as a RCB? How many games did he even play there during his peak?

And Brian Laudrup may not be as good as Finney but he still is a very talented winger. Who is picking him up? If Netto is tasked with defending out wide, it just leaves Keane in the middle. Ideally you would need one of the halfbacks to be able to drop back into CB (leaving the sideback to pick up the winger) which does not seem to be the case.

Tactically his defence is not suited to handle my attack.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

We mean it man, we love our queen!
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Messages
6,434
It's not just names, but what was Lahm's peak as a RCB? How many games did he even play there during his peak?

And Brian Laudrup may not be as good as Finney but he still is a very talented winger. Who is picking him up? If Netto is tasked with defending out wide, it just leaves Keane in the middle. Ideally you would need one of the halfbacks to be able to drop back into CB (leaving the sideback to pick up the winger) which does not seem to be the case.

Tactically his defence is not suited to handle my attack.
I can't disagree with anything there and if I was forced to vote, I'd vote for your team at this poiny. It's just that the quality on his side is too huge which has stopped me. And then there is Don Alfredo who is the only guy that can remotely make it work.

I'll consider whether to vote or not tomorrow before the voting ends. Hopefully the result will be sorted one way or the other by then :lol:
 

Moby

Dick
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
51,356
Location
Barcelona, Catalunya
Honestly I don't think WvH's task at Feyenoord was any different from Matthaus at Inter. Both were midfielders in a 4-3-3 tasked with creativity. They are both creative #8. The way they went about the task was what made them different. Difference is WvH was a better passer/distributor from the midfield(lacked pace to make a true B2B) and Lothar was better at making late runs into box....and that's what they are tasked with here.

Both are complete players. WvH was main creator at Feyenoord and played support with Neeskens in NT. Matthaus was main creator in Inter and played deeper with NT...all within the same respective peak period.

Perhaps the defensive B2B comment in OP is throwing people off. The second half is what defines his role clearly.
No doubt that WvH is an excellent passer and metronome from midfield and in general circumstance I'd have no doubt, I don't here either but it's the fact that you have Matthaus of all people to play in that zone which could easily allow WvH to play more advanced and take the creative duties in his hand primarily. As harms mentioned, for NT he played a conserved role focussed more on recycling possession, providing workrate , covering several positions and supporting the two Johans who majorly dominated the creative duties especially in the final third. While for club, he didn't have to contain himself to the middle and could easily play a role which was more akin to Iniesta.

Another way to put it is basically based on their versions here, Matthaus' primary skills would have him closer to the heart of the game, having that insane stamina, workrate, tenacity and breaking play and starting attacks while his attacking the box and goalscoring would be secondary in order of preference of his skillset. While it is the opposite for WvH where I'd say his creative, technical and goalscoring skills (overall a 1 in 3 career at Feyenoord with 5 10+ league goal seasons, with the best one being 14 goals in 32 appearances which is a kickass return for a CM), while his defensive, ball winning, closing down skills would be supplementary to his aforementioned primary skillset. Which is why I'd swap them around both position-ally and functionally.
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
28,027
Location
Moscow
Tbf the best defensive display i saw from him was in a feyenoord shirt.
Well, he was really Cruyff-esque in that he participated in every part of the game - including defensive. But you definitely don’t want to restrain him. Him and Matthäus should work well together though.
 

Physiocrat

Has No Mates
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
8,971
@Jim Beam Love the front 5. How are you setting up without the ball? Will one of Keane or Netton drop in at CB or are Figo and Finney defending like wing-backs?
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
28,027
Location
Moscow
I think that Lahm would do well by the way. Considering that it’s probably will be something modern & possession-based (Pep plays with this idea a lot) and not an old-fashioned W-M. Pep used him as a false fullback at Bayern.

Netto also has experience in W-M. I’m not sure on Schnellinger as I’ve only seen him at Milan & NT and haven’t studied his Bundesliga career.

Tresor fits well in theory but I’ve recently watched a few horrible performances by him for Bordeaux so subconsciously I have doubts about him, which isn’t really fair as he was a bit past it.
 

Šjor Bepo

Wout is love, Wout is life; all hail Wout!
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
15,655
Well, he was really Cruyff-esque in that he participated in every part of the game - including defensive. But you definitely don’t want to restrain him. Him and Matthäus should work well together though.
dont think he would be restrained here, its not like he is in a holding role....and yeah, him and Matthaus work lovely together. I saw @Moby posting how ideal setup for Lothar is behind a 10 and im one of those that disagrees, it can work obviously because he was so damn complete but to get the best out of him he needs to be the main guy in that midfield, it doesnt necessarily have to be with 2 defensive players next to him, you can easily play Van Hanegem and another player that contributes similarly on both phases of play but is selfless enough to let Lothar do his thing.
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
28,027
Location
Moscow
dont think he would be restrained here, its not like he is in a holding role....and yeah, him and Matthaus work lovely together.
As I said, I have no issues with the set up, it was simply a comment on Edgar’s “defensive b2b peak” description. Since in this draft van Hanegem deserves a special attention.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
41,425
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
No doubt that WvH is an excellent passer and metronome from midfield and in general circumstance I'd have no doubt, I don't here either but it's the fact that you have Matthaus of all people to play in that zone which could easily allow WvH to play more advanced and take the creative duties in his hand primarily. As harms mentioned, for NT he played a conserved role focussed more on recycling possession, providing workrate , covering several positions and supporting the two Johans who majorly dominated the creative duties especially in the final third. While for club, he didn't have to contain himself to the middle and could easily play a role which was more akin to Iniesta.

Another way to put it is basically based on their versions here, Matthaus' primary skills would have him closer to the heart of the game, having that insane stamina, workrate, tenacity and breaking play and starting attacks while his attacking the box and goalscoring would be secondary in order of preference of his skillset. While it is the opposite for WvH where I'd say his creative, technical and goalscoring skills (overall a 1 in 3 career at Feyenoord with 5 10+ league goal seasons, with the best one being 14 goals in 32 appearances which is a kickass return for a CM), while his defensive, ball winning, closing down skills would be supplementary to his aforementioned primary skillset. Which is why I'd swap them around both position-ally and functionally.
Fair point, not disputing in what you say, but I believe you are comparing Matthaus and WvH in isolation. I have Rivaldo ahead of WvH, so I need the metronome van Hanegem more than the goal scoring one. On the other flank, I have Brian Laudrup who'll primarily operate out wide pulling Netto/Schellinger outside and opening space for a Matthaus run in.

I think that Lahm would do well by the way. Considering that it’s probably will be something modern & possession-based (Pep plays with this idea a lot) and not an old-fashioned W-M. Pep used him as a false fullback at Bayern.

Netto also has experience in W-M. I’m not sure on Schnellinger as I’ve only seen him at Milan & NT and haven’t studied his Bundesliga career.
You have two excellent attacking full backs providing overlapping with plus 2 wide players ahead. Jim seems to have provided no commentary on who will peel wide and who will support. I doubt Keane will be the right person to handle Rivaldo if Lahm pulls wide to deal with Lizarazu. Same on other flank. Either way I have a advantage over his defence.
 

Jim Beam

Gets aroused by men in low socks
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
13,077
Location
All over the place
@Jim Beam Love the front 5. How are you setting up without the ball? Will one of Keane or Netton drop in at CB or are Figo and Finney defending like wing-backs?
It is not some old fashioned tactics btw... pyramid, WM or BMW from 30's. Barcelona used it and played with this idea a lot in their 2014/15 or last great season when they had Suarez, Neymar and Messi at their peak. Yeah, Figo and Finney have to drop back and cover in theory. So will Di Stefano, if the first wave of pressing doesn't work, making it more 3-5-2 in defence. Figo and Finney have to provide width in the attack, but also have to be responsible, dropping deep and providing protection for my wide center backs. Figo wouldn't have much problems with it as he had excellent work-rate. On the other side, Finney might struggle a bit as from what I've seen he did drop deeper, but you wouldn't call him exactly defensively sound. Someone like Czibor would nail the tactics imo.
Barcelona, for example, had some problems when Neymar was playing this role as he didn't track back so much. They still managed to hurt the opposition as there was too much attacking talent upfront which the opposition couldn't handle it. Like it is case here pretty much.

This is an example of one those games. Ibra scored btw, so one point for Edgar too.


Don't look at the team sheet at the start. During the match it was:

----Bartra-----Pique----Mathieu-----
-----Busquets----Mascherano-------
--Pedro------Iniesta-------Neymar---
---------Messi-----Suarez-----------

Problem with the tactics comes at the moment when the other team has dangerous, pacy wingers and if your winger doesn't track back which was the reason why Neymar ended up upfront in some games. Obviously, some defensive problems were created by the fact that Mathieu is utter garbage too. The midfield area is pretty much shut down and extremely tough to break for the opponent.

Here Edgar has Rivaldo who will not act as a winger, but go into the crowded area. The central area is shut down, so his best option is Brian Laudrup against Schnellinger as Finney by my assumption won't provide cover at times. It is still Laudrup against Schnellinger and I know against who I would bet every time in this case. Young Schnellinger who still spent 5 years in Bundesliga, won a title with FC Koln, Footballer of the year in Germany ahead of Seeler and ended as 3rd in Ballon d'Or in 1962 behind Mosopust and Eusebio before his move to Milan. Yeah, he was mostly operating as quick, technically great and defensively sound LB, only in certain games and if necessary went to CB by what I manage to read about his time. At Milan, he then started to play much more in the centre of defence or as a sweeper, but without any problems with transition.

Which put me back to his and Lahm position here as that is the pretty much the only thing that is baffling to me and the reason why I even started to write this post. People are telling me that in a possession-based 3-2-3-2 the better fit would be, I don't know, Burgnich, Bergomi, Gentile, Ferrara at RCB then probably the most intelligent and possession suited fullback in football history? Amazing actually.

Btw. the aim of the tactics is to create triangles all over the pitch with Lahm/Schnellinger going a bit wider to their natural positions. You can see the triangles just looking at the team-sheet in every segment on the pitch. Good luck defending and taking the ball in this case.

I am chickening out of voting as one team got the tactics right and the other is leaps and bounds better quality wise. Cheers.
Not sure why you are chickening in all honesty. If you think one team got their tactics and team right, but the other one has more individual quality, in reality the better team and not the one with more individual quality would won the match 9 out of 10 times. That's at least how I always look at it when I put my vote.
 
Last edited:

GodShaveTheQueen

We mean it man, we love our queen!
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Messages
6,434
Not sure why you are chickening in all honesty. If you think one team got their tactics and team right, but the other one has more individual quality, in reality the better team and not the one with more individual quality would won the match 9 out of 10 times. That's at least how I always look at it when I put my vote.
Aye, which is why I later mentioned if I was forced to vote, it would have gone to Edgar's team.

Just a bit more quality in attack would have won him my vote for sure.

Feck it, I want to see where he takes this. I'll go with Edgar on this one.
 

Physiocrat

Has No Mates
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
8,971
@Jim Beam Excellent response. That makes a lot of sense. I wasn't meaning to imply you were just going for an old school WM, I just saw a few different ways you could defend and just wasn't sure what you were going with.
 

Jim Beam

Gets aroused by men in low socks
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
13,077
Location
All over the place
@Jim Beam Excellent response. That makes a lot of sense. I wasn't meaning to imply you were just going for an old school WM, I just saw a few different ways you could defend and just wasn't sure what you were going with.
I know... I was replying to you in terms of exact response about defending that you asked, but the whole post was generally aimed at the whole debate that was going on yesterday.
 

Synco

Lucio's #1 Fan
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
6,450
From what I remember during his Inter years he did not have a #10 ahead of him. For the same period, his stint with NT (WC 1990) also did not feature a #10 ahead of him. Though his Inter and NT roles were tactically different during same (peak) period, it always has been in a midfield 3 with no #10 ahead. Why do you think he needs a #10 ahead in drafts when he didn't need one in real life?
Both my vague memories of these games and the lineups lead me to a different conclusion.

In the final, the players in front of Germany's back five were Matthäus - Häßler - Littbarski - Völler - Klinsmann. Only Matthäus qualifies as a true CM there, and Häßler/Littbarski are some variations of attacking midfielders. Another prominent midfield combination was Matthäus - Häßler - Bein. Browsing through the WC lineups, Matthäus always played with at least one, most of the time even two offensive playmakers in the team.