For everything that he does and has been doing for more than a decade, and he does a lot.
Ronaldo is the goat
- Thread starter Billy Blaggs
- Start date
Ronaldo and Messi's goal records have both been inflated by the nature of the modern elite football, with a few super-teams gathering much of the top talent using their domestic leagues as cannon fodder. Not a criticism of them, just the reality of the situation, another reason why using their goal-scoring stats as the prime argument in their historic placement is flawed.
Disagree. If it was that easy why no other player in Madrid or Barca attacking lineup put similar consistent numbers ?
Then why do they score so much for their countries too?
Suarez has 0.85 goals per game at Barcelona
True, why can't Bayern buy their own Messi or Ronaldo? Even us, with tons of cash couldn't find half the player of that ilk.
Still not on the same consistent level of Messi I believe.
Also, Madrid always had a full stacked team in every area of the pitch before Ronaldo, why no one was putting a similar consistent performance, scoring +40-50 goals each season ?
They both have around a 0.5 ratio for their countries, both way down on their clubs.
Costa's goal last night wasn't soft?
Luiz Ronaldo himself played in Madrid's galaticos team yet couldn't even win 1 CL.
Clearly he is a pile of shit.Luiz Ronaldo himself played in Madrid's galaticos team yet couldn't even win 1 CL.
So you do actually mean ability wise then? I get the 'legacy' or 'greatness' arguments. But Ronaldo (Brazil) was on a higher level than Cristiano has ever reached.
Do not agree, it's just nostalgia...
So you do actually mean ability wise then? I get the 'legacy' or 'greatness' arguments. But Ronaldo (Brazil) was on a higher level than Cristiano has ever reached.
Cristiano scored 50+ most of his career, Luiz couldn't even manage it ONCE.
Both those teams are set up to play to the particular strengths of their key man. They are and have been the 2 best in the world after all. Guys like Suarez, Neymar, Bale have all scored handsomely. Benzema is sometimes criticized for his scoring rate but he is pretty much at 1 in 2 over 400 games for Madrid which historically would have been an excellent record for nearly any striker. Having all these talents makes it much more difficult to focus defensively on one man.
Goal a game at club level, 85 in 152 for Ronaldo at international level, 64 in 124 for Messi. Great records, more realistic records.
And before both Messi and Ronaldo why no one in both teams were putting similar numbers ? And do you think after their era end, any other key player will be putting similar numbers for Madrid and Barca ?
They're scoring such numbers because their finishing is just really that good. They're better finishers than the best finishers around.
Not really. Ronaldo scores one goal per game for the national team too, he just played a lot of games when he was young. If you compare it year by year, there’s barely any difference
48 goals and 11 assists in his last 52 games for Portugal
Because as I initially said the disparity in talent between Real/Barca and the rest domestically in recent years and their historic equivalents is much greater.
I am not criticizing them, I am suggesting that basing an argument for their historic placement on stats alone is ignoring context. They would always have scored prolifically, but the current environment has been the ideal time for them to put up absurd numbers.
The Galactico era Madrid were not bringing Bale off the bench, it was Portillo. The model was Zidane and Pavon, a few superstars supplemented by youth players, they did not have close to the depth of current Madrid.
The gap between Madrid/Barca and other La Liga teams was always the same and will stay the same post them. It's Ronaldo and Messi only who have been doing these crazy numbers so I think it's due to them being really that good. I don't think post them there will be any other player who will be scoring with the same rate.
Difference between 2 teams dominating and winning the majority of the trophies and the recent record breaking obliteration. To move it beyond Ronaldo you see the same dominance from Bayern and PSG, record breaking seasons in recent years. Zlatan scoring 50 goals at 35 in France because, yes he is brilliant, but also because PSG dominate to an absurd level.
Anyway, they are clearly among the best ever, maybe even the best, but I still contend you have to look beyond the stats. Not basketball.
Whether he does it because he's being selfish/preserving energy or because he's that intelligent I love that he knows what his strengths are now and doesn't try to drop in & get involved in play when he's not involved for a while. Too many number 9s think they need to get involved when they best serve their team by occupying the centre halves, giving the team an out ball & taking players out of the game.
Must make things so much easier for the portugal players knowing exactly where he'll be without checking.
Must make things so much easier for the portugal players knowing exactly where he'll be without checking.
It's not the point of putting these numbers in a year, it's the point of putting these same number year in year out, same crazy numbers every year which is something Messi and Ronaldo exceed everyone else imo. With most top players there's always a peak year in which they put crazy stats in then have a consistent good but less stats each other year. In Messi and Ronaldo, it's the same crazy numbers every year. That what makes them unique.
That’s because they played as youngsters for their countries. For their clubs they played enough games for the average to rise, for their countries they haven’t
Not sure that will stand up to a proper mathematical analysis to be honest.
My god, Messi has had a mare the past 3 years. I think he might retire early. Not next season or anything, but after he runs his contract.
It's crazy how much Cristiano has closed the gap.
It's crazy how much Cristiano has closed the gap.
6 months ago, it was close, but now Ronaldo is clearly ahead. How he’s adapted his game his position into a trophy winning goal machine. Ronaldo has basically single handly dragged Portugal to the knock out stages this WC and you look at Messi tonight, looks dejected, lazy, even abit arrogant.
Ronaldo has surely established himself as the GOAT domestically and internationally and he keeps breaking records.
For me, the last 6-8 months has put Ronaldo ahead.
Ronaldo has surely established himself as the GOAT domestically and internationally and he keeps breaking records.
For me, the last 6-8 months has put Ronaldo ahead.
So if Argentina go out. The team that comes top in Portugal’s group would face Russia or Uruguay next, then Croatia or Denmark in the quarters.
Could be an easy (in terms of missing the big boys) route to the Semis. May put a cheeky bet on Ronaldo to win it.
Could be an easy (in terms of missing the big boys) route to the Semis. May put a cheeky bet on Ronaldo to win it.
Ballon D'or number 6.
Coffin is nailed shut
To be fair, Croatia probably are one of the 'big boys'. Maybe not in name, but they are probably battling Belgium to be fourth favourites at this stage (third if Germany don't get their act together).
Yeah, it's looking like that whole bracket will be easy. The other semi-finalist would come from Mexico-Serbia/Switzerland and a team from Group H-England
Everyone is in the same boat there. The reason the ratio isn't the same is the resource imbalances aren't as skewed as they are in the club game.
At least for Ronaldo that's not the case. For club he usually plays 90 minutes, for club in friendlies he usually just plays 45 for example which changes things. He's been scoring as much for Portugal as in Madrid for a long while now despite the difference in ratios. Of course you'll also have to take into account the fact he plays against easier teams in the european qualifiers but the difference between how many minutes it takes him to score a goal isn't big.
I remember we've talked about this before, so when I have time I'll bring out the numbers and try to give you some proof of what I'm saying.
Indeed. Best player of all time.
Even Messi fans must admit, Messi doesn't have the ability to drag average teams towards greatness. Portugal were poor in Euro 2016. They're even worse now. They don't deserve more than 1 point at this stage. Ronaldo has the ability to win things in great teams, and win things in poor teams.
Messi just doesn't influence this average Argentina like Ronaldo influences (time and time again) this poor Portugal side.
Messi just doesn't influence this average Argentina like Ronaldo influences (time and time again) this poor Portugal side.
GOAT
Agree. Ronaldo has a big influence on United, Madrid and Portugal, which is a big plus for him so far. Messi doesn't look the same with his national team as he's with Barca.
The past few 2-3 years have been all Ronaldo.
As much as I adored the 'original' Ronaldo (he was my idol growing up) I don't think you can genuinely argue he was at CR's level. Fans love to over hype past 'greats' and I genuinely believe Luis Ronaldo was the best striker of his generation but CR is a different league to pretty much any attacking player I have ever seen bar Messi (hence the eternal debate).
So you do actually mean ability wise then? I get the 'legacy' or 'greatness' arguments. But Ronaldo (Brazil) was on a higher level than Cristiano has ever reached.
Where is he? By who?
Correct.
Football is about goals and performing. The original Ronaldo can’t even touch Cristiano, some people live in denial of that fact but it’s true.