Roy Keane's performance vs Juventus

[gav81]

For me that absurd claim should have been put to rest during the 4-2 smashing at Highbury when Vieira disappeared after his initial goal.

Keane put in a 10/10 performance to defend his teammate before the players even got on the pitch there...



Keane's description of the event: -

Gary Neville had come to see me just after the warm-up; it was an evening kick-off. We'd just come back into the dressing room. Gary told me that some of the Arsenal players had said something to him in the tunnel, that they weren't going to take any nonsense – they'd be waiting for him.

…

But I didn't pay much attention to what Gary said.

'Whatever, Gary.'

I was getting into the zone myself. I was concentrating on my job, getting ready to go out on to the pitch. I wasn't one for shouting and roaring in the dressing room. I'd be geeing myself up, in a calm way. The last thing I wanted was Gary in my earhole, going,'They've been shouting at me in the tunnel.'

My attitude was '****** deal with it. You're not eleven.'

But he'd planted a seed in my head, warning me.

…

As I walked to the front I heard something going on at the top of the tunnel. All I could see was a few fingers, pointing at Gary.

I lost it.

Five seconds earlier, I'd been perfectly calm, in the zone, ready for the match. But, because of what Gary had said to me, I just went, 'The ******* - they are waiting for him.'

I'd thought they might have booted him out on the pitch. But in the tunnel? I just thought, 'The *******.' They were trying to bully him. They were a big team and, in the tunnel, they were even bigger.

So I said to myself, 'All right. Let's go.'

I went down there. I'd lost it, but it wasn't zoning out; I wasn't forgetting about the game.

I said, 'We'll see you out there.'​

At the time, Gary Neville was 29 years old, an experienced player, England international and would captain United the following season. Yet the incident shows just how far ahead Keane was in the leadership stakes at United.

 

[Rory 7]

Don't subscribe to that , you could argue that if keane wasn't on the pitch we could have won 4-0 due to a different play style .

Watch the video , it's every touch he had in the game , is it REALLY a 10/10 performance ?

Yes. It is a 10/10 performance. This isn't even a debate. I'll take my leave.

 

[Minimalist]

Takes leaders of highest order to put aside their own personal absence from the prospective final, relentlessly dominate the opposition from then on and drive their teammates on to a place they ultimately can never go themselves. That's putting aside his goal to bring United back into the fold after two quick-fire Juventus goals.

 

[devilish]

Keane put in a 10/10 performance to defend his teammate before the players even got on the pitch there...



Keane's description of the event: -

Gary Neville had come to see me just after the warm-up; it was an evening kick-off. We'd just come back into the dressing room. Gary told me that some of the Arsenal players had said something to him in the tunnel, that they weren't going to take any nonsense – they'd be waiting for him.

…

But I didn't pay much attention to what Gary said.

'Whatever, Gary.'

I was getting into the zone myself. I was concentrating on my job, getting ready to go out on to the pitch. I wasn't one for shouting and roaring in the dressing room. I'd be geeing myself up, in a calm way. The last thing I wanted was Gary in my earhole, going,'They've been shouting at me in the tunnel.'

My attitude was '****** deal with it. You're not eleven.'

But he'd planted a seed in my head, warning me.

…

As I walked to the front I heard something going on at the top of the tunnel. All I could see was a few fingers, pointing at Gary.

I lost it.

Five seconds earlier, I'd been perfectly calm, in the zone, ready for the match. But, because of what Gary had said to me, I just went, 'The ******* - they are waiting for him.'

I'd thought they might have booted him out on the pitch. But in the tunnel? I just thought, 'The *******.' They were trying to bully him. They were a big team and, in the tunnel, they were even bigger.

So I said to myself, 'All right. Let's go.'

I went down there. I'd lost it, but it wasn't zoning out; I wasn't forgetting about the game.

I said, 'We'll see you out there.'​

At the time, Gary Neville was 29 years old, an experienced player, England international and would captain United the following season. Yet the incident shows just how far ahead Keane was in the leadership stakes at United.

It does make Gaz look a bit of a Wuss tbh.

 

[Scuttler]

Keane was absolutely phenomenal that match. I still remember that goal, out of nowhere on the corner, when it looked like Juve were about to smash United off the pitch. Completely changed the momentum. The whole side was inspired from that point on. Keane epitomized the mad man tag that day.

Can't remember the exact game, think it was the Inter 2nd leg, when Berg played arguably his best match in United colors. He was immense in that match. Then got crocked and missed the last few weeks if memory serves. Back then SAF could just toss Berg, Johnsen, even May to an extent, out there and both often performed, granted Stam was often the partner CB which was a great help.

Are you a yank by any chance?

 

[gav81]

It does make Gaz look a bit of a Wuss tbh.

I wouldn't say Gary was a wuss, certainly not out on the pitch. I think it just shows how far Keane was at the forefront when even senior players and internationals looked to him for inspiration and assistance.

 

[Minimalist]

It does make Gaz look a bit of a Wuss tbh.

To be fair, Patrick Vieira looks like he'd chew up and spit out most men. Can't imagine it's not a tad intimidating, especially if he was making a valid point (i.e. Neville kicking Reyes to bits in the Old Trafford game).

Just a case of Keane being a scrapper from Cork who saw red.

 

[Macern]

Is there any way to rewatch this game?

 

[devilish]

To be fair, Patrick Vieira looks like he'd chew up and spit out most men. Can't imagine it's not a tad intimidating, especially if he was making a valid point (i.e. Neville kicking Reyes to bits in the Old Trafford game).

Just a case of Keane being a scrapper from Cork who saw red.

He was 29 FFS. He didn't need to hide behind Keano. Maybe he should have taken Keano to Valencia or with England too. He would sort them on his behalf.

 

[gav81]

Maybe he should have taken Keano to Valencia or with England too.

I doubt Keane would get involved in the England setup with it going well for him at Ireland - at least they went out of Euro 2016 with some pride and gave France a scare! Overachieved to beat Germany in the qualifiers and Italy in the group too - that's the Keano effect!

 

[alanjohnson]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/football/fa_carling_premiership/427415.stm

was this the same match? i really want to watch this one again, when Keane scored 2 goals.

 

[alanjohnson]

found it

 

[JazzG]

For me that absurd claim should have been put to rest during the 4-2 smashing at Highbury when Vieira disappeared after his initial goal. Not to mention Keane never required a midfield partner to do all the dirty work for him.

Why is that? Also if Keane never required a midfield partner then why did Fergie chose Butt over Scholes in most of the big games in the 98/99 season?

 

[Waltraute]

It was 100% a 10:10 performance. Epic.

It truly was, and certainly not because Keane himself did it all. It was the way he inspired absolutely everyone to do their very best, even surpass their previous best. No fear. United in Europe, against the mighty Juve -- not afraid, not worried, but actually turning it around and getting the result. Alongside Robson against Barca, and of course the final '99, it's my favourite European performance.

A lot of absolute garbage is spoken about leadership and the quality of a true leader, but that game? Absolutely epic, like Rory said, and will forever be the one exaple you can always bring up when people ask 'What is a great captain and leader?'

 

[gav81]

found it

What a game!

I miss that style of football where almost every pass and movement in possession is forward, forward, forward. Whatever the result, it made for an exciting and entertaining game.

We don't see it anymore. It's all safety first now. I think I blame Mourinho, but that's another topic.

 

[alanjohnson]

What a game!

I miss that style of football where almost every pass and movement in possession is forward, forward, forward. Whatever the result, it made for an exciting and entertaining game.

We don't see it anymore. It's all safety first now. I think I blame Mourinho, but that's another topic.

Keane celebrating in front of their fans, that was funny.
How did i ever forget Stam grabbing Vieria's neck?

 

[Sandikan]

found it

One of the few players who wouldn't have gone down claiming to have been headbutted!

 

[MrMarcello]

Why is that? Also if Keane never required a midfield partner then why did Fergie chose Butt over Scholes in most of the big games in the 98/99 season?

Keane pisses all over Vieira. We've been down this nonsense repeatedly on the Caf.

Choosing Butt over Scholes has naught to do with Keane needing someone to cover his ass and everything to do with Scholes leaving massive gaps in midfield. You're smarter than this. I know it sucks that Vieira is in Keane's shadow but c'est la vie.

I did and do rate Vieira nonetheless and would have welcomed him to United circa 2001 when the rumors were flying of him trying to force a move.

 

[Waltraute]

Keane pisses all over Vieira.

This isn't something you need to say. This is an obvious truth so fundamental Vieira includes a passage about how he's sorry he ever doubted it in his evening prayer every night to this very day.

Why the arses keep bringing it up I'll never know. Vieira was a great player, no doubt. The idea he ever intimidated Keane is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

The lion led a team of lions against the lions. Not easy, lads.

 

[syrian_scholes]

In general I'd agree. Keane played very, very well especially in the personal circumstances.

To come back from such a terrible position away to Juve (in effect, the Barca of their day) was remarkable and Keane's leadership, goal scoring and consistent excellence was a big part of why the comeback happened. But Giggs late equaliser in the first leg, as well as our dynamic forward line were very important.

People do mythologise the past, there's lots of examples:
1. Keane - seemingly reduced to a midfield enforcer "DM" in the minds of many (mainly younger) fans
2. Scholes - retconned into a guaranteed starter, despite the fact that it wasn't until the early 2000s that he truly cemented a place in the staring 11 (Butt preferred, Veron, Ronnie, etc) save the year of Keane's horror injury, no matter how many Zidane rent-a-quotes you throw out there.
3. Barthez - apparently a disaster, and whilst it didn't end well, he was fantastic for at least his first season.

This is silly, Scholesy played 42(starting 37) games in 1997-1998 and 51(starting 39) games in 1998-1999, then 44(starting 40) games in 1999-2000 if that's not a starter then what is?

 

[BennyBlanco]

This is silly, Scholesy played 42(starting 37) games in 1997-1998 and 51(starting 39) games in 1998-1999, then 44(starting 40) games in 1999-2000 if that's not a starter then what is?

Well what he said is roughly true in that Scholes wasn't an automatic dert cert to start up until around 1999-2000, 1998 Keane had his cruciate injury which saw Scholes start a bunch more than he would have alongside Butt that season, and 99 IIRC Butt still played a lot of games that year with Keane.

 

[syrian_scholes]

Well what he said is roughly true in that Scholes wasn't an automatic dert cert to start up until around 1999-2000, 1998 Keane had his cruciate injury which saw Scholes start a bunch more than he would have alongside Butt that season, and 99 IIRC Butt still played a lot of games that year with Keane.

Yes Butt did play a lot of games alongside Keane, but Scholesy played a lot more, Butt played 44 games that season with 32 being starts, but in the UCL he only started two games and those games were Juventus 2nd leg and the final where Scholesy couldn't even play in the final.

 

[berbatrick]

\Maybe he should have taken Keano to Valencia or with England too. He would sort them on his behalf.

Your CO92 obsession knows no bounds

 

[NinjaZombie]

found it

I remember this game for the part where more than twice as many players were holding Stam back instead of Vieira.

 

[KeaneSixteen]

It's hard to look at his performance from the clips and stats and judge what he did that night. Juve were a side we feared, watch Neville's reaction when he heard they'd got through,. They were the Barca or Bayern of the time, because they dominated games, had great players and a history of beating us. When they went 2-0 up you had to think it was all over but then, in comes Keano's head and you felt we were going to win. My memories of the night maybe clouded, but I've never lost the feeling that Keane won us that game.

 

[Green_Red]

With all due respect to the OP he clearly, as a 12 year old had no understanding of just how good that Juve team was, especially Zidane and Davids... Keane made them look average. And he rallied a team from 2-0 down, away from home, to one of, if not the best team in Europe at that time, to a 3-2 win. The context of all that is important to consider.

 

[Green_Red]

Keane can be such an arsehole at times.

Hes right though... it is his job and he was brought in to do that job. Simple as that. Its a great mentality, win at all costs and self sacrifice. Weve been crying out like players like that for 10 years.

 

[JazzG]

Keane pisses all over Vieira. We've been down this nonsense repeatedly on the Caf.

Choosing Butt over Scholes has naught to do with Keane needing someone to cover his ass and everything to do with Scholes leaving massive gaps in midfield. You're smarter than this. I know it sucks that Vieira is in Keane's shadow but c'est la vie.

I did and do rate Vieira nonetheless and would have welcomed him to United circa 2001 when the rumors were flying of him trying to force a move.

Neither player pisses over either, they are both similar in quality and excel in different things.

You said Keane didn't need anyone in midfield to help him out, surely if Keane was as good as you're saying he would cover all those gaps himself? I'm telling you in the big games Fergie chose Butt to play along with him.

 

[Stack]

Hes right though... it is his job and he was brought in to do that job. Simple as that. Its a great mentality, win at all costs and self sacrifice. Weve been crying out like players like that for 10 years.

Bollocks, he cant gracefully accept a bit of praise. Thats all that was happening. He was being an arsehole.

 

[alanjohnson]

With all due respect to the OP he clearly, as a 12 year old had no understanding of just how good that Juve team was, especially Zidane and Davids... Keane made them look average. And he rallied a team from 2-0 down, away from home, to one of, if not the best team in Europe at that time, to a 3-2 win. The context of all that is important to consider.

the argument FOR isthat whilst they absolute annihilated us in the middle, that game..and we were LUCKY..we'd played a lot more games, big games, by that point of the season andhad already developed a cannot lose mentality.

Thing is i wish i could watch this game all over again full 90mins just to watxh Zidane, Davids, Conte, Di livio bossing us all around the pitch. That was the first time i'd really seen us dominated in that way, even though we played Barca that season they weren't quite there at that point...and even though Arsenal were scary to play against in that period of time, they were never dominating like this.

The argument against btw is that Juve were weak in other areas ie defence and lacked a killer instinct..and we took advantage in the second leg when we eventually pressed them on both wings.

 

[gav81]

Bollocks, he cant gracefully accept a bit of praise. Thats all that was happening. He was being an arsehole.

You are right he can't accept a bit of praise, though your interpretation of the reason for that is lacking, i.e. it's more complex than "being an arsehole".

Some people like praise. They need to be told they are good, they lap it up and thrive on it. Some people don't like praise. In cases they can actually see compliments as an insult for suggesting they could have acted in any other way.

Here is a description: -

"Further, some people with high self-esteem might have ideologies or world views that associate compliments with ‘coddling’ such that they experience praise as condescension rather than encouragement."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...08/why-some-people-hate-receiving-compliments
​

The above fits Keane's comments all over: -

"Stuff like that almost insults me. What am I supposed to do? Give up? Not cover every blade of grass? Not do my best for my team-mates? Not do my best for my club?

"I actually get offended when people throw quotes like that at me as if I'm supposed to be honoured by it. It's like praising the postman for delivering your letters. He's supposed to isn't he? That's his job. My job is to try to win football matches for Man United."​

Much more than "being an arsehole" it shows there is a deeper character and provides an insight of the internally driven mindset which makes Keane a winner.

 

[Green_Red]

the argument FOR isthat whilst they absolute annihilated us in the middle, that game..and we were LUCKY..we'd played a lot more games, big games, by that point of the season andhad already developed a cannot lose mentality.

Thing is i wish i could watch this game all over again full 90mins just to watxh Zidane, Davids, Conte, Di livio bossing us all around the pitch. That was the first time i'd really seen us dominated in that way, even though we played Barca that season they weren't quite there at that point...and even though Arsenal were scary to play against in that period of time, they were never dominating like this.

The argument against btw is that Juve were weak in other areas ie defence and lacked a killer instinct..and we took advantage in the second leg when we eventually pressed them on both wings.

Does anyone have a link to the full game, we need to watch this again because 17 years later memories is not a good way to try and discuss player performances.

 

[DanClancy]

There's always the comparisons between Keane & Vieira but they were different players. Vieira had to play with a holding midfielder whilst Keane could play with anyone and was capable of playing right midfielder, centre & right back. Vieira was one of the best midfielders I've ever seen but I wouldn't swap him for Keane.

 

[POF]

Keane and Vieira were both top class midfield players. They were the leaders of their respective teams in the biggest rivalry in English football at the time - the most bitter rivalry I've seen in English football.

What set them apart as players is that Keane was at his best when things were going against United. When the team was playing poorly he would often drag them through. When things were going against Arsenal, Vieira behaved like a little bitch. Each player summed up the character of their respective club at the time.

As for how good Keane's performance was against Juventus, it was a great display. It probably didn't stand out as much for me because he regularly played like that. He was clearly the best player in that team and his importance to the team was demonstrated far more by the poor performance of the team in the final when he wasn't available.

 

[MounchesterUtd]

found it

FFS, the pace and power of these two teams back in the day were on another level

The ref that got a staredown from Stam and Keane

 

[lem8sh]

Bollocks, he cant gracefully accept a bit of praise. Thats all that was happening. He was being an arsehole.

Scholesy was the same, some players just don't like it for some reason.

 

[MrMarcello]

Neither player pisses over either, they are both similar in quality and excel in different things.

You said Keane didn't need anyone in midfield to help him out, surely if Keane was as good as you're saying he would cover all those gaps himself? I'm telling you in the big games Fergie chose Butt to play along with him.

Excellent wordplay. You Arsenal lot are a sensitive bunch. The pisses all over comment is hyperbole and banter. Keane was clearly the superior player in the same way that Henry was superior to Ruud and Cantona.

It is true I stated Keane didn't require a person to do all the dirty work for him, notice the underlined bit, though I should have stated in his prime because later in his career he did have Phil mop up quite a bit, especially after his legs had gone from age and injury. Butt and Ince pushed forward as much as sat back, sharing duties, certainly more box-to-box than a classic DM; Phil was a DM by the definition.

Vieira more often than not had a defensive-minded partner covering his ass, ala Petit or Silva (at Arsenal, don't care about his other club forms). Whereas Keane often handled the midfield on his own I can't say the same for Vieira. Just my opinion.

Vieira most certainly disappeared in the 4-2 smashing at Highbury. Silenced after his early goal.