Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Pintu

Full Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
4,171
Location
Sweden
(Edit: Perhaps the Russians and KGB have much more experience in paying European politicians, so they don't leave traces, Qatar was inexperienced... )
That definitely makes more sense than suggesting the justice system in European countries are willingly turning a blind eye to Russian corruption only to fight corruption by “more friendly” countries…
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
37,331
Problem is the timing, everything is taking so long, when exactly are these rockets going to be ready? Nothing in stock as it needs to be manufactured first, such decision (providing longer range) should have been made a few months ago at very least for it to properly impact the state of affairs in the theater. That’s why ATACMS still make sense in current situation as it something that can be delivered instantly, having an immediate effect.
At this stage you never believe official, or leaked, timelines
 

the hea

Full Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
6,330
Location
North of the wall
Problem is the timing, everything is taking so long, when exactly are these rockets going to be ready? Nothing in stock as it needs to be manufactured first, such decision (providing longer range) should have been made a few months ago at very least for it to properly impact the state of affairs in the theater. That’s why ATACMS still make sense in current situation as it something that can be delivered instantly, having an immediate effect.
The production might not take as long as one would expect at first, the GLSDB is actually made out of two already existing components, the air launched Small Diameter Bomb from Boeing and rocket engines from decommissioned M26 rockets for the M270/M142 system. So although it's a new type of ammunition most of the components are already available from current stocks, it's only the production of the adapter and assembly that would be required.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,685
Can we post Russian propaganda videos in here? They are so silly that even a moron wouldn't be bought by it
 

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
32,935
Can we post Russian propaganda videos in here? They are so silly that even a moron wouldn't be bought by it
Sure, why not? I've been posting Russian state TV segments for months. It's important to know what's being showed or said to the Russian people.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,685







Also have you noticed that the same actress seem popping again and again?
 
Last edited:

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
32,935
" Russia is sliding back towards (aspects of) the 'wild 90s,' when murder was a business tactic, and the lines between politics, business, crime and war became near-meaningless."

 

Rektsanwalt

Full Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
1,572
Supports
Schalke 04
Also have you noticed that the same actress seem popping again and again?
Are those videos real? Jesus Christ, what a shitshow that is! Unbelievable that anybody could fall for this. The level of production is miles lower than the average commercial in the west, not even considering the pathetic messages themselves.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,685
Are those videos real? Jesus Christ, what a shitshow that is! Unbelievable that anybody could fall for this. The level of production is miles lower than the average commercial in the west, not even considering the pathetic messages themselves.
They are border tragic. Unfortunately they seem to be convincing in the poor rural areas located in the middle of nowhere
 

The United

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
5,794
It's been showed below, with posts from October and November. We're well into February and the discussion has moved to neighbour Vuhledar, which also isn't falling.



No, they aren't. If they were performing well the war would probably be over by now. They are also not only failing to gain territory right now, but have been failing to do so for months. In fact, after the first three weeks of the war they only had one net territory gain in already controlled Lugansk (the Popasna/Lyschansk/Severodonetsk area). On the meantime the UA regained the surroundings of Kharkiv, Yzium, Lyman, Kherson and the west bank of the Dnieper river.



No, it isn't, and you would have to bring reliable sources for that to make sense. Ukraine forces are regularly receiving NATO standard training and returning to the battlefront with that expertise (plus weaponry). Russian forces aren't. The key points of your argument of Russian gaining momentum are A) Bahkmut, where the forces are mercenaries that operate on their own or untrained/unequipped prisoners; and B) Numbers, which come from forces recruitment of untrained/unmotivated/undisciplined people who are then trained in the tradition of the Russian army (so very quickly, very poorly, and with corruption disrupting the process) and equipped with whatever is available (WW2 outfits in some reported cases). So no, they aren't about the same.

Now that we're on it, we should talk about your modus operandi of argument building. You're (albeit probably accidently) using one of the trademarks of the deceiver which is to hide the deceiving remark or "alternative fact" in between a group of reasonable, verifiable ones. So then we get statements like "Russian outnumbers Ukraine (truth), Ukraine needs more support (truth), the UA is as poorly equipped and trained as the RA (misleading), the UA is having as many casualties as the RA (deceiving), the war is going to be long (truth), Ukraine's allies must step up if they want to win (truth)". That, plus the constant repetition on those misleading remarks, makes for a very difficult and annoying reading (at least in my case).

On the war, I hope that past behaviour would be a good predictor of future behaviour, that the UA keeps getting the help it needs and keeps conducting secret and succesful operations, that the RA keeps making the mistakes that it had been making not only from the beginning of this invasion but from centuries of wars before, and that the spring will give us more information of what's what as (like most experts predicted) the winter has been mostly a stalemate.
Those posts did not say anything that I predicted the fall of Bekhmut in certain dates. Those posts were stating what was going on there.

The RA troops are doing as well as they can. I don't rate them much. So I did not expect them to capture the whole UA. But compared to what everyone's expectation was of being collapsed in a few weeks back in September, they have been doing pretty well for that expectation (based on a very low standard). They have caused the UA a lot of problems with both their offensive and defensive actions in the last few months. It may mean two things in general for me. One is that in this period, the UA troops are not up to par against poorly trained and equipped RA's troops. The other thing is that the UA's troops are not much better than the RA's troops at this moment due to a lack of necessary equipment. And I wanted to believe that the second was the most logical. It helps my assumption when the UA also kept asking for more and better equipment as their main weaponry is still from the Soviet era (I'm not sure where you got the idea that UA troops come back from training with NATO weaponry regularly). You kept talking about how bad these RA troops in your posts. But, UA military might disagree with you on that. In a CNN Jan 25, 2023 article, "Wagner Group fighters have become the disposable infantry of the Russian offensive in eastern Ukraine, but a Ukrainian military intelligence document obtained by CNN sets out how effective they have been around the city of Bakhmut – and how difficult they are to fight against."

In November, US General Mark Milley stated that the UA's causalty was similar to the RA's. The 100k-120k estimated casualty figure for both sides (through November) was repeated again in the NYTimes article, which was linked a few posts ago. The Bakhmut defenses cost UA men in three-digit numbers a day, which came from their president awhile ago. I can't give you much more reliable than those. The UA army, just like the RA army, does not have many professional soldiers left, and most are volunteers ("With the exception of a small proportion of rear area troops, the AFU is practically an entirely all-volunteer force. Complaints of lingering Soviet mentality in field grade and higher officers, particularly in rear area units, are widespread. Kyiv Post reporters visiting front line units have repeatedly heard soldiers and even junior officers argue that senior commanders in the AFU at times lack tactical skill or don’t really understand the situation on the front" - Kyiv post, Dec, 2022). The "West" is training some, and most of them are not back to UA yet. It would be hard for those UA volunteers who don't take a break from defending in the field to be much more highly trained than the RA's newly recruited troops. You can interpret the situation however you want, but I read that Zelensky having to come to the US and the "West" urging more heavy weapons meant everyone was aware of how dire the battlefields could become in the coming weeks or months for UA.

The last paragraph of your post is obviously what almost everyone hopes or talks about regarding this war. It does not mean it will happen or it is happening. You found my posts annoying because my arguments don't support what you want to hear? I can still want UA to win the war while pointing out that RA currently has the upper hand. There is a possibility that I think that UA may not win this war at all (Sorry if you find that annoying as well). When I say that UA is not winning the war, it means that they have 10 to 15% of their land occupied by RA while getting attacked by missiles every month.

But the main point of the post to which you responded was that I cautioned that the RA still may have the manpower and combat capacity to conduct spring offensives, despite almost everyone saying that it was not possible a few months ago, in the hope of making themselves feel better about the situation rather than trying to get more accurate information (alternative facts, you say?). But somehow, you called me out on the Bekhmut. Is it important when it falls or when I predict it will fall? If it fell, don't you think it would be very concerning for the UA because with all the highly trained and equipped troops (according to you), they could not defend against ill-trained and equipped drunkards or criminals? And the UA is dead set on not giving up that city, so you would think they are sending their best troops and equipment (as much as they have) there.

"Bielieskov, the research fellow, said the least-trained Russians go first to force the Ukrainians to open fire and expose the strengths and weaknesses of their defense.

More trained units or mercenaries from the Wagner Group, a private Russian military company led by a rogue millionaire and known for its brutality, make up the rear guard, Bielieskov said.

Bielieskov said that Ukraine compensates for its lack of heavy equipment with people who are ready to stand to the last."

Manpower is less of a Russian problem and, in some ways, more of a Ukrainian problem, not only because the casualties are painful, but they’re often ... Ukraine’s best troops,” said Lawrence Freedman, a professor emeritus of war studies at King’s College London - APnews.
 
Last edited:

Morty_

Full Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
2,936
Supports
Real Madrid
Assuming Ukraine spring offensive in the south is successful, isn't it better to cut off Crimea, instead of trying to capture it?
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
28,028
Location
Moscow
Are those videos real? Jesus Christ, what a shitshow that is! Unbelievable that anybody could fall for this. The level of production is miles lower than the average commercial in the west, not even considering the pathetic messages themselves.
Yeah, they are. But they are, like many things in Russia, less about convincing people about anything and more about getting tons of money from lucrative government contracts. And if someone dislikes the final product, you can just accuse them of being unpatriotic.

Although a lot of highly trained professionals, especially from creative professions, left the country. Plus in general “the cultural sphere” (cinema/theatre/visual arts etc.) is against the war, aside from a few very notable oddballs. Volodin and others that are set with curating this sphere are quite vocal in their disappointment.
 

RoyH1

Full Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
5,981
Location
DKNY
Assuming Ukraine spring offensive in the south is successful, isn't it better to cut off Crimea, instead of trying to capture it?
Capturing it, or threatening to capture it is a fabulous bargaining tool for an eventual peace settlement with Russia.
 

RedDevilQuebecois

Full Member
Joined
May 27, 2021
Messages
8,100
Capturing it, or threatening to capture it is a fabulous bargaining tool for an eventual peace settlement with Russia.
Honestly, Crimea is the biggest prize of all from the Ukrainian perspective. It is to Ukraine what Manchuria was to Japan before the 1904-05 war: the biggest threat to their sovereignty for as long as it remains under Russian control.
 

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
32,935
“We showed we can enter the territory of Russia and show the Russians that Ukrainians can act,” he says. “After the Russians find out that saboteurs are working on their territory, they need to move a lot of soldiers to find these saboteurs. It is very demoralising to the enemy. "
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
130,189
Location
Hollywood CA
Assuming Ukraine spring offensive in the south is successful, isn't it better to cut off Crimea, instead of trying to capture it?
Cutting it off would be a precursor to eventually reclaiming it. Beyond the obvious logistical win for the Ukrainians of course. It would also means Ukraine likely reclaims all of Kherson oblast.
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
130,189
Location
Hollywood CA
Capturing it, or threatening to capture it is a fabulous bargaining tool for an eventual peace settlement with Russia.
It would be hard to use it as a bargaining tool since the Ukrainians likely view Crimea as getable, and won’t want to stop fighting until they reclaim it.
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
130,189
Location
Hollywood CA
Would be interesting to see if these are Russian sponsored commies or just French ones.

 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
130,189
Location
Hollywood CA
This is welcome news to the Israelis, who can now bomb Iranian sites into oblivion without the Biden administration batting an eyelid.

 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
130,189
Location
Hollywood CA
Interesting piece from Ben Hodges suggesting Ukraine can't win the war without taking back Crimea

 

RedDevilQuebecois

Full Member
Joined
May 27, 2021
Messages
8,100
Interesting piece from Ben Hodges suggesting Ukraine can't win the war without taking back Crimea

Just I pointed out previously, Crimea is to Ukraine what Manchuria was to Japan in 1904: a direct threat to their sovereignty for as long as Russia has its hands on the region.
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
130,189
Location
Hollywood CA
Just I pointed out previously, Crimea is to Ukraine what Manchuria was to Japan in 1904: a direct threat to their sovereignty for as long as Russia has its hands on the region.
Good point, and I would agree. There likely won't be a lasting peace between Ukraine and Russia until either Putin falls and/or Ukraine takes back Crimea. Putin has pretty much forced the situation to where one of the two has to happen.
 

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
32,935
He is suspected of passing on top-secret intelligence to Moscow, some of which is believed to be related to Ukraine, according to Der Spiegel newspaper.

His arrest has embarrassed Germany’s spy agency and raised major questions for Western allies sharing intelligence at the height of a ground war in Europe.