Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Raoul

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I fail to see much of a problem given how Russian athletes are being used to promote the war with the Z symbol.
I thought it was just one guy who did that ? In either case, what's done is done and its unfortunate that those who have feck all to do with Putin are getting sucked into this.
 

Organic Potatoes

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Adversity makes strange bedfellows. The US is trying to buy ammo from Afghanistan (and India) because Ukraine is desperate for 152mm howitzer rounds which we don’t manufacture.
The United States has also agreed to provide some 155-millimeter howitzers, along with 40,000 matching rounds, while trying to buy Soviet-standard ammunition from countries that use it, including nations outside of Europe, like Afghanistan and even India, a longstanding buyer of Russian arms.
NYT (paywall)
 

Stookie

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Looks like it’s almost the end of the battle of Mariupol according to bbc news tonight. Those guys holding out are something else. Does the Ukraine have enough resources to launch a counter and take it back?
 

Rajma

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This is so evil I’m lost for words but sadly not surprised one bit. I don’t understand how west can just sit there and watch and only do some half-hearted measures.
 

Rajma

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Wow. That's Medvedev, Rublev (both top 10 players) and Khachanov out of Wimbledon this year. Not sure if I agree with this one.

Who cares, should have came out loud and clear against the fascist regime. They have all the money to not be bothered about not going back to Russia under Putin.
 

UncleBob

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I thought it was just one guy who did that ? In either case, what's done is done and its unfortunate that those who have feck all to do with Putin are getting sucked into this.
More than one, but more importantly is the way Russian athletes is being used to promote Putin in Russia. It’s unfortunate, but yeah.
 

TwoSheds

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From a quick google it looks like their coalition gov was split on sending lethal weapons so don't know if that caused issues, they have apparently sent some stuff though:
In Spain there is a coalition of Government, PSOE (socialists) and Podemos (extreme left).
The latter have ties to Venezuela, they are anti-NATO and nostalgic of Soviet Union. Already in March in the European Parliament they voted (along with Basque separatists) against expanding sanctions on Russia.
They ask for peace "following diplomatic channels."
In short, Pedro Sánchez, whose priority is to maintain the government, is caught by the balls. The Spanish aid supposedly arrived after a call from Borrell to put pressure on him.
The Spanish aid consists of some quite useful rocket launchers due to their low weight and a light machine gun called Cetme Ameli, highly criticized by the Spanish army itself.
Supposedly now Pedro Sánchez is going to travel to Ukraine, but I would say that merely for electoral interests. I would not be surprised by a Macron-style photo session or military clothing
Thanks for the explanations guys. Hopefully they can find some agreement within government at some point to do more.
 

GlastonSpur

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The BBC reports:

"Turning now to the Donbas region in the east of Ukraine, where Russia has begun a renewed offensive.

A journalist there, Ed Ram, says many people are exhausted and frustrated - they are growing "really tired" of a conflict that has been ongoing since 2014.

"There is a bit of pro-Russian sentiment and historically people have looked to go to Moscow, it is thought of as aspirational, but that pro-Russian sentiment is on the decline," he tells BBC Breakfast.

Locals told him that "the war has turned feelings", they feel "more Ukrainian"...."

On a recent visit to Kreminna - where Russia has taken control - Ram helped to evacuate 17 civilians in an armoured bus. The city was once home to 18,000 people - now only 3,500 remain, he says.

"We picked up civilians who looked very stressed, they rushed out of basements and it was an emotional scene.

"People were hugging loved ones goodbye and it was a real mix of ages - older people who haven't been able to leave and a few young people with children, clutching their pets."

He said one woman, holding a guinea pig and a cat, said she was devastated to leave but after seeing the killings in Bucha she was afraid what would happen if, or when, Russian soldiers arrive in the city."
 

VeevaVee

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I thought it was just one guy who did that ? In either case, what's done is done and its unfortunate that those who have feck all to do with Putin are getting sucked into this.
It is but it's happening on a grand scale for the rest of Russia, and for a reason. No reason their athletes should be exempt. The whole point is to turn the people against Putin for doing this.
 

VorZakone

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So for those who wondered how many civilians remain in Mariupol, it's about 120.000. Which seems a lot to me, I thought more had fled the city.

CNN:

Some 120,000 people remain trapped in the besieged Ukrainian city of Mariupol, President Volodymyr Zelensky said on Wednesday.

“According to our information, they are keeping 120,000 people in besieged Mariupol. Crimes that are happening there are far more scary and large scale than in Borodyanka,” Zelensky said while speaking alongside European Council President Charles Michel in Kyiv."
 

GlastonSpur

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Some Ukrainian troops already operating inside the city of Kherson it seems:

 

sglowrider

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Germany to stop Russian oil imports by end of this year:

"... We will halve oil by the summer and will be at zero by the end of the year, and then gas will follow," said German foreign minister Annalena Baerbock ..."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61164894
Where are they getting their supplies from then? You don't build such O&G capacity overnight. Takes years.
 

stefan92

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Where are they getting their supplies from then? You don't build such O&G capacity overnight. Takes years.
Oil is pretty simple, as this is usually transported by oil tankers and not via pipelines, so can be bought everywhere where oil is exported. Therefore the timeline is plausible, you just need to secure the deals for that and that's about it. Gas is a bit more difficult as it relies heavily on pipelines and therefore will take more time, but the emphasis is on increasing LNG transport capacity (ships and terminals), to also become more flexible here.

The claims by Baerbock seem in contrast with statements from the finance minister in the article.
Not really. You can read it as Baerbock stating the intented timeline and Lindner just reinforcing the point that a shutdown of the German economy without a replacement shouldn't happen. And Lindner's role is quite limited in this whole story as he is responsible for finances, more important are the Green ministers Baerbock (foreign affairs) and Habeck (economy). These two are travelling and trying to get Germany deals around the world.

Therefore I don't think the article is quite right in it's interpretation that a rift between FDP and Greens exist because of this topic. The far bigger rift is between Greens/FDP and SPD, as they differ on fundamental questions (do we deliver heavy weapons?). Greens and FDP have the same target here, just one is more cautious (the one who has to deal with the bills), which is quite natural I think.
 

TMDaines

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This is so evil I’m lost for words but sadly not surprised one bit. I don’t understand how west can just sit there and watch and only do some half-hearted measures.
Been happening in the DNR and LNR for years. The world has watched by, and even begun to accept the Russian narrative there.
 

GlastonSpur

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Not gonna lie, Solovyov is quite the funny guy.

I guess the point of this stuff is bolster the image - for the Russian people - of Russia as some mighty power, rather than a nation with a smaller economy than that of Italy and a military that won't be able to even conquer Ukraine.

But really, it's a kind of whistling in the dark to keep up spirits.
 

GlastonSpur

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Not sure if the Russians are laughing though.
I don't think they'd laugh at this either:

Biden calls Putin to discuss the latest situation. He shares with Putin: “I had an interesting dream – I saw Moscow, full of light, joy, dancing and laughter, with people driving luxury cars – just like it was before all these war sanctions. There were neon lights and billboards all over the city!”

At this point, Putin asks: “And what did these billboards say?”

Biden responds: “How the hell would I know… I don’t speak Ukrainian.”
 

sglowrider

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Oil is pretty simple, as this is usually transported by oil tankers and not via pipelines, so can be bought everywhere where oil is exported. Therefore the timeline is plausible, you just need to secure the deals for that and that's about it. Gas is a bit more difficult as it relies heavily on pipelines and therefore will take more time, but the emphasis is on increasing LNG transport capacity (ships and terminals), to also become more flexible here.


Not really. You can read it as Baerbock stating the intented timeline and Lindner just reinforcing the point that a shutdown of the German economy without a replacement shouldn't happen. And Lindner's role is quite limited in this whole story as he is responsible for finances, more important are the Green ministers Baerbock (foreign affairs) and Habeck (economy). These two are travelling and trying to get Germany deals around the world.

Therefore I don't think the article is quite right in it's interpretation that a rift between FDP and Greens exist because of this topic. The far bigger rift is between Greens/FDP and SPD, as they differ on fundamental questions (do we deliver heavy weapons?). Greens and FDP have the same target here, just one is more cautious (the one who has to deal with the bills), which is quite natural I think.
Its just not about transportation -- the plants need to increase their capacity esp LNG gassification plants. They take years to build. I know -- the GF is up in China at the moment building one of the LNG gassification plants for Novatech (Russia) for the Siberia fields. They are about to complete 2 'trains' and were going to start another 'train' next year.
But they due to political pressure back home, are pulling out of the $30B project.
 

africanspur

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We got divided and occupied by both. Treating only West Germany as the real Germany and ignoring what happened to the East is a bit arrogant, but it happens in Germany too and it might be a reason why the divide still exists in most minds, so no worries if that's your view as well, it's a view you can get when dealing with most Germans.

While formal occupation ended in 1954 it took until the 2+4 treaty in 1990 to get full souvereignity again.

It was pretty clear that Germany would stop to exist if there would ever be a war between the US and the SU and their allies, no matter what we did. So it made a lot of sense to take part in creating the MAD to prevent WW3 from happening. But the thing is, Germany had also no choice because until 1990 the Allies were allowed to station troops in Germany, and they all did. NATO membership meant that the Bundeswehr could work together with the US and other troops, but had no influence on the existence of their bases in Germany.

Only since the 2+4 treaty they lost (or rather gave up) that right, and only since then Germany could ask the US to leave. But we likely won't do, as their presence puts a lot of money into the local economy around their bases.
I didn't deny that Germany was occupied by both. I assumed you grew up in West Germany supporting Hannover but this may of course have been an incorrect assumption. I'm saying that the options were not occupation by the USA or Germany remains independent. The options were occupation by USA or occupation by the USSR. And I'm saying I assume you would have preferred (assuming you are in Hannover) to have come under American occupation, as opposed to the whole country come under the Soviet Union?

OK then, even assuming that its the case that allied troops were there without proper consent until 1990, what exactly has happened since 1990? Thats 32 years now. British troops are basically gone, but thats a decision from the British. The Americans are still there. Are they there without consent?

Its a bit strange to make it sound like there wasn't (and remains) at least some acquiescence from the (West) Germans and then Germans, considering the alternatives at the time and what's happened since then.
 

Don't Kill Bill

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My dad did his national service in Germany in 1954. He hated every minute of it, they were very strange times but I'm not sure what the alternative would have been.
 

stefan92

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I didn't deny that Germany was occupied by both. I assumed you grew up in West Germany supporting Hannover but this may of course have been an incorrect assumption. I'm saying that the options were not occupation by the USA or Germany remains independent. The options were occupation by USA or occupation by the USSR. And I'm saying I assume you would have preferred (assuming you are in Hannover) to have come under American occupation, as opposed to the whole country come under the Soviet Union?

OK then, even assuming that its the case that allied troops were there without proper consent until 1990, what exactly has happened since 1990? Thats 32 years now. British troops are basically gone, but thats a decision from the British. The Americans are still there. Are they there without consent?

Its a bit strange to make it sound like there wasn't (and remains) at least some acquiescence from the (West) Germans and then Germans, considering the alternatives at the time and what's happened since then.
Actually I was born after the reunification, so for me West vs East is just a historical point, although it often is a factor for older people.

And as I said, it was definitely better to become member of the NATO for Germany, but the choice was between cooperating or not cooperating, not whether there would be troops in Germany.

And consent is mostly there today and has been since our integration into EU and NATO, I didn't mean to deny that.