Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

[Frosty]

as if nato didn't bomb the feck out of Serbia and Libya

I was making the point they can be an offensive power

The Libya intervention was to enforce a UN Security Council Resolution which Russia could have vetoed but didn't. Everyone knew what its passing meant at the time.

 

[Attila]

And once again, neither of those have the world’s largest nuclear arsenal.

yes you Americans have large bombs

destroyed Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya what next

 

[Carolina Red]

yes you Americans have large bombs

destroyed Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya what next

And we’re back to this basically just being you having a go at America.

There’s a different thread for that. This one is for Russia’s unjustified invasion of Ukraine

 

[Lemoor]

yes you Americans have large bombs

destroyed Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya what next

Maybe I misread your post, but you do know that "world's largest nuclear arsenal" refers to Russia not US?

 

[Attila]

And we’re back to this basically just being you having a go at America.

There’s a different thread for that. This one is for Russia’s unjustified invasion of Ukraine

You are so two faced

 

[Carolina Red]

I know but I was replying to a US melon

Joke’s on you. I’m allergic to melons.

 

[calodo2003]

Got a live one here.

 

[Attila]

Got a live one here.

What's that meant to mean?

you are a yes man clown?

 

[GlastonSpur]

May 9 – Victory Day: Putin’s hollow victory masks a great defeat:

https://cepa.org/conscript-army-putins-hollow-victory-masks-a-great-defeat/

 

[calodo2003]

What's that meant to mean?

you are a yes man clown?

There’s a thread dedicated to the whataboutism you are peddling. You are not turning over new ground in here.

 

[Attila]

There’s a thread dedicated to the whataboutism you are peddling. You are not turning over new ground in here.

Location: Florida

Don't like to hear the hard truth

 

[calodo2003]

Location: Florida

Don't like to hear the hard truth

Your pedantry is cute.

There’s literally another thread in which to have this discussion. Search ‘whataboutery.’

 

[GlastonSpur]

It's not 19th century bullshit.

The great powers will play their games. Russia is one of them

The days of Russia being a great power are over. It has an economy smaller than Italy's (and will soon be smaller than Holland's), conventional forces that can't even conquer the eastern fringes of Ukraine despite throwing two-thirds of its entire ground forces into the attempt, a dysfunctional government and a technological base that is a million miles behind that of the West.

Russia has the nuclear threat and lots of oil, coal and gas - that's about all it has. And once Europe weans itself off Russia's energy supplies, a process that Putin has now kick-started into action, Russia will be left having to sell these at knock-down prices to India and China. In effect, Russia has become China's junior partner - and China will be calling Russia's shots from here on.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

You talk as if the USA hasn't enforced regime change on democratically elected governments for their own interest

And when was the last time they did that? When was also the last time that Russia defended a so-called democracy if they are for any greater good?

Putin and the CCP are at the forefront of a new ideological Cold War. If you feel those feckers are any better than the West, then we have nothing left to say.

 

[LDUred]

One minute laying waste to an entire country and puffing their chests out on military parades, the next minute whining about how threatened they are by NATO.

It's shocking how easily people fall for it and get sucked into defending them.

 

[Krakenzero]

Just to stop derailing the thread, a few thoughts about the discussion in the last couple of pages and then I won't mention them again:

-Ukraine is not a threat to Russia's existence, more like the other way round. Ukraine has been independent for about 30 years and has been invaded by Russia 3 times (Crimea, Donetsk-Lugantsk, and now the whole country).

-NATO is not forcing anyone to join. If anything, it has made the process of joining really difficult for other countries. Since 2009 only two have done it.

-NATO nor anyone will invade Russia as it now has nukes. The aggressor of the last 2 times was defeated, occupied, downsized its army, doesn't have nukes and depends on trading with Russia (although the last three are about to change due to Putin's decission to invade).

-Russia tends to invade a lot more often than be invaded. However, it appears to show a tendency to invade and then be military embarrased every 40 to 50 years, and it tends to happen against smaller powers everytime. First the french, then the turks, the japanese, the finnish, the afgans and now Ukraine.

-Esentially, Russia's status as a great power now seems to depend on A) its nuclear reserves and B) its non-renewable resources (Oil and Gas). Whatever the result of the war is, Russia's situation in both is now weaker: invading countries that got rid of their nukes tends to dissuade other countries of doing the same (and encouraging others to get them), making Russia's nukes less relevant in the long term. And, of course, the invasion also accelerated the end of the EU's dependency on Russian oil and gas.

-The US actions in other parts of the world are no excuse for Russia's actions. As a matter of fact, the US is still paying the price for most of the wrong decissions it made there. But there's a different thread for that.

 

[Coxy]

Just to stop derailing the thread, a few thoughts about the discussion in the last couple of pages and then I won't mention them again:

-Ukraine is not a threat to Russia's existence, more like the other way round. Ukraine has been independent for about 30 years and has been invaded by Russia 3 times (Crimea, Donetsk-Lugantsk, and now the whole country).

-NATO is not forcing anyone to join. If anything, it has made the process of joining really difficult for other countries. Since 2009 only two have done it.

-NATO nor anyone will invade Russia as it now has nukes. The aggressor of the last 2 times was defeated, occupied, downsized its army, doesn't have nukes and depends on trading with Russia (although the last three are about to change due to Putin's decission to invade).

-Russia tends to invade a lot more often than be invaded. However, it appears to show a tendency to invade and then be military embarrased every 40 to 50 years, and it tends to happen against smaller powers everytime. First the french, then the turks, the japanese, the finnish, the afgans and now Ukraine.

-Esentially, Russia's status as a great power now seems to depend on A) its nuclear reserves and B) its non-renewable resources (Oil and Gas). Whatever the result of the war is, Russia's situation in both is now weaker: invading countries that got rid of their nukes tends to dissuade other countries of doing the same (and encouraging others to get them), making Russia's nukes less relevant in the long term. And, of course, the invasion also accelerated the end of the EU's dependency on Russian oil and gas.

-The US actions in other parts of the world are no excuse for Russia's actions. As a matter of fact, the US is still paying the price for most of the wrong decissions it made there. But there's a different thread for that.

Good post - but bizarre any of it had to be said - it should be obvious to all…

 

[alexthelion]

Location: Florida

Don't like to hear the hard truth

I'm not American, the only "truth" you're spouting has come from Russia. How much are they paying you?

 

[TwoSheds]

I'm not American, the only "truth" you're spouting has come from Russia. How much are they paying you?

Judging by the name I'd say he's Hungarian. Great government they have there, real charmers.

 

[Beans]

I'm not American, the only "truth" you're spouting has come from Russia. How much are they paying you?

How many packets of Cheetos you mean?

 

[nimic]

Judging by the name I'd say he's Hungarian. Great government they have there, real charmers.

The Hungarians can't really claim Attila, so he might just be someone who really hates the Roman Empire.

 

[VorZakone]

Sooo it's the 9th. Expectations?

 

[tomaldinho1]

Sooo it's the 9th. Expectations?

No announcement so far

 

[Ventura]

Sooo it's the 9th. Expectations?

Our brave soldiers are heroically fighting evil and defending mighty Russia in Ukraine!

 

[stefan92]

Our brave soldiers are heroically fighting evil and defending mighty Russia in Ukraine!

Yep. Some wild claims about the war, and pretty much that will be all.

What we have seen here from Russian TV will likely be reason enough to not claim total mobilization, declaring millions of people cannon fodder is a recipe for disaster and revolution.

 

[Rajma]

Sooo it's the 9th. Expectations?

Tweet

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[JuriM]

Sooo it's the 9th. Expectations?

A big Boom of nothing, the speech was super Meh and didn't say anything new and not even any planes flying over Moscow, due to bad weather.

 

[stretford_oslo]

Bad weather or «bad weather»?

 

[Spark]

I was in St. Petersburg on this very day in 2010 and Moscow a couple days later. Won't lie, was an absolutely fantastic piss up, this is a proper holiday (although the 1941-1945 dates always made me chuckle a bit - don't ask locals what Russia was doing 1939-1941).

As a result I always try and tune in a bit each year to check out the military parade, as it's really fascinating.

Today's was literally identical to all the others. For all the random ones happening around the Federation, there's actually a striking absence of Z in Moscow and all the tech is the same. Having seen Russia's shocking display in Ukraine, it's weird watching it knowing that they are effectively showing all their quality tanks (T-90M/T-14) and they don't have 5,000 more.

Obviously the hench nukes/empty ICBMs on display are pretty terrifying.

Anyway, I reckon Putin might have some announcement up his sleeve later in the day. Maybe a referendum or something.

 

[Simbo]

Sooo it's the 9th. Expectations?

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[RedDevilQuebecois]

A big Boom of nothing, the speech was super Meh and didn't say anything new and not even any planes flying over Moscow, due to bad weather.

Raining or shine, planes always fly over the Champs-Élysées on Bastille Day. It's currently sunny in Moscow as shown on TV, so it's gotta be something else than just bad weather.

 

[sport2793]

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[The Firestarter]

He is in a bit of a zugzwang tbf.

 

[stefan92]

BOOOOOORING!

 

[TMDaines]

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[KirkDuyt]

So basically the gist of the rethoric boils down to:

Putin: They're like Hitler.
Zelensky: No you!

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

I just can't see any Russian leadership accepting Ukraine leaving their sphere of influence for the EU/Nato

Putin may have made huge blunders during the war but the reasons for doing so still make geopolitical strategic sense

Understanding the internal logic of a delusion might be helpful. Accepting the delusion as reality and going along with it is not. The world moved on and Putin can not turn the clock back.

Russia's army is being belittled by Ukraine, laterally and metaphorically as it tries, proving the great power delusion is just that.

Most likely at some point in the next month or so the delusion will crack in the face of reality. Acceptance of the fact that Ukraine has left Russia's delusional sphere of influence whether Putin likes it or not will follow. Exactly how that happens is in doubt. With or without nukes going off etc.

 

[SmashedHombre]

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Who are they? And why do most of them look old and overweight?

 

[GlastonSpur]

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[harms]

Bad weather or «bad weather»?

It's hard to say. The weather is a bit shit & the planes were flying over Moscow during the rehearsals, so maybe it's true. It's hard to trust anything they say though even the stuff that sounds perfectly plausible.