Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
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Seeing as @stefan92 mentioned the pre-required Russian's admittance of it's crimes against Ukraine, it's pretty obvious that that scenario simply doesn't happen with the same leadership still in place, be it Putin himself of his direct successor with the same views on the matter. The reintegration should happen (both for Russia and the rest of the world's sakes) but only after the regime change and the full admittance of Russia's responsibility for everything that happened (and the steps taken to compensate Ukraine for the damage done). If Putin is still alive in this hypothetical scenario, the admittance of those crimes would be immediately followed by him being sent straight to Hague.
Errrr it happened as recently as 2008 in Kosovo with support from the West.
You'll have to explain that one
Washington recognized Israeli annexation of the Golan Heights less than four years ago.
Actually @harms understood what I meant. I don't want to see the current fascist regime stay in power and therefore the world should give the Russians some motivation to get rid of it.
That's a fair point
Fair point. Israel-Palestine is a basket case of a situation and the West are a disgrace everyday over it.
In this case it's Israel-Syria, not strictly a Palestinian issue. But it will surely be pointed to by Moscow as an example of Western hypocrisy.
This is a pipe dream though, a leader even if its not Putin that gives back annexed territories . Its not happening.
I just remembered. Thanks
I wouldn't be so sure about it, but I admit that currently it's unlikely. Nonetheless these (@Rajma did a good job defining it further) are necessary requirements. If Russia doesn't accept these they will stay the pariah of the World and that's it.
On the bright side, if Putin falls, chances are Russia will get a brand new government and constitution which will negate anything currently in place.
I'd imagine that any leader that follows Putin would be extremely interested in redoing the damage that Putin did to Russia and it's economy (even leaving aside stuff like international reputation etc.). And giving back annexed territories (or a claim on them — it's not an unlikely scenario that Ukraine would actually be in control of them at that point) would be one of the key points in any sanction-relief deal.
It's not like Russian people dreamt of annexing Kherson or Donetsk for years — in fact, even a lot of those who support the war are/were very skeptical about it due to the simple question of money. Hence why you won't see any vote in Russia itself that would ask people the question of "do you want those territories to become a part of Russia?".
It seems like Minsk will be liberated soon:
Would the Belarussian military tolerate getting involved though?
And if true, I reckon we'd see more official Western reports about it.
Absolutely mental if true.
I don't think Lukashenko can do anything if sanctioned by NATO. He is after all a dictator, and is therefore going to be all in on collaborating with Putin since much of his power and autonomy are derived by Putin allowing him to remain in power.
Belarus has been de facto occupied by Russia already since 2020, thus all sanctions that are applied to Russia should extend to them too. As you say he’s now a governor of Belarus oblast and is fully dependent on Putin and as such doesn’t have any room for maneuver no more.
This is the point of divergence. Germany was re-integrated because they surrendered unconditionally and a proper internal reckoning was had.
That will not happen in Russia.
This article in the WP says it will take "a few years" to build and deliver the 18 Himars to Ukraine. What's the fecking point then? The US stocks can't be so low that they have to build them first. Ukraine can't win if these things take years.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/09/28/himars-ukraine/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/09/28/himars-ukraine/
If only you guys didn’t go full Putin 9 years earlier!
Apologies if posted earlier…
I'd have to ask 2 of my friends who are pro-russian and who claimed that Russia attacked Ukraine cause they were provoked by Americans if they changed their stance. Probably not and probably they'll claim Russia annexed Ukrainian territories cause they were provoked... I'm avoiding them in a big circle.
Ukraine has made several deals already for the next years, this fits right into it. It ensures that they will have a NATO standard army after war, and if the war should take years that they will have a steady influx of new systems.
I still do not see enough deterrence against nuclear deployment from Russia. It should be made really clear that any attempt will result in the complete destruction of Russia. This weakness will be exploited again and with every day that western leaders remain non-commital the likelihood that’s going to be used by Russia increases. That’s the only language those drug addicts in Kremlin get.
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This sort of thing will have been conveyed privately, not in public.
Hopefully.
I have the same issue. Two mates who just think this is purely the fault of NATO/US. Mainly stemming from “overthrowing the democratically elected president of Ukraine in 2014” which forced Putin to do what he did. All a load of gash about how we should negotiate with Putin for peace and “stop using Ukrainians as pawns”.
Does. My. fecking. Nut.
Plenty of idiots like that around here these days too, pretty much the same morons who were antivax and all before - though I must say even within that group (antivax/denialists) most are still anti-Russian anyway. There is only so much traction online Russian propaganda can get.
Do you mean Poland? Are there pro-Russian and anti-Ukrainian people in Poland today???
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And rightly so
There are some. It’s a small minority and the political party that tries to spread anti-Ukrainian/pro-Russian sentiments has gone from polling at 10-11% to 5-6% but it is nonetheless concerning that they exist at all. And they do tend to make a lot of noise, like all idiots.