Saul Niguez

Champagne Football

Full Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2015
Messages
2,821
Location
El Beatle
Pobga is leaving next summer. And we had enough of him. Sell Pogba for 150m to 180m.

Buy Saul and Partey with that money.
Not happening, if we sell Pogba for big money, I think our A list will be Maddison, Longstaff and Sancho.
If we don't get top 4 then our B list is probably Richarlison, Longstaff/McGinn and David Brooks.
 

Inter Yer Nan

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2016
Messages
5,532
Location
Los Angeles, CA (from UK)
Not happening, if we sell Pogba for big money, I think our A list will be Maddison, Longstaff and Sancho.
If we don't get top 4 then our B list is probably Richarlison, Longstaff/McGinn and David Brooks.
I would absolutely cream if we landed them next summer.

Regarding Saul; I think he wouldn't be on our radar. He's a great player and also very loyal to Atletico. What is interesting to me is that because of his versatility, he's often played out on the right (though Koke seems to be the designated RM this season) and even sometimes at left back but this season seems to be playing his preferred central midfield position. I'd heard there was some talk he was a little miffed about playing outside of his favorite position so now that he's likely to stay in the middle it will only re-affirm his desire to stay. Vitolo or Lemar will keep the LM spot, Koke will keep RM so he's not going to be playing anywhere else and is one of their best and most passionate players.
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
15,753
Location
#SmallingPlusOne
Pogba will extend (his contract). If he doesn’t, I hope we take Odegaard from Madrid in return.
 

Bastian

Full Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
8,806
Not happening, if we sell Pogba for big money, I think our A list will be Maddison, Longstaff and Sancho.
If we don't get top 4 then our B list is probably Richarlison, Longstaff/McGinn and David Brooks.
Richarlison on a b list? Wouldn’t be surprised if they sell for 100m. And to a club more competitive than ours.
 

Nou_Camp99

Full Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
2,008
There will be no major signings next summer along the lines of Sancho, Maddison etc unless we buck our ideas up. If we fail to get back into the CL there's going to be a huge drop in our finances. Adidas deal goes down for one.
 

Devil may care

Full Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
31,876
Pogba will extend (his contract). If he doesn’t, I hope we take Odegaard from Madrid in return.
He seems to have matured as a player, starting to deliver on the promise, isn't he out of contract next summer though?
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
15,753
Location
#SmallingPlusOne
How much cash? It’s a lot of pressure on Odegaard.
I mean, I can’t say how much cash. Obviously an amount that reflects the difference in status of both players.

Odegaard is what, 20 now? He’s been playing first team football for 4 years now, and has had the pressure of joining Real’s first team at 16. He’s not a baby anymore, he can play for Manchester United. Hopefully, he’ll be playing with 10 other useful players, and no pressure will be on him to single-handedly transform our side. He’s a wonderful talent though, and the calibre of talent that could potentially see us replace Pogba and not have an inferior player in the long run, which in itself is almost impossible to do.
 

Bastian

Full Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
8,806
Says the caf about every half decent (non-British) player, always.

Never mind how different the reality often ends up being!
He's justified his transfer fee already IMV. He's an absolute workhorse, improving many aspects of his game. He's what, 22? Been called up by Brazil.

You don't rate him?
 

gajender

Full Member
Joined
May 7, 2016
Messages
613
There will be no major signings next summer along the lines of Sancho, Maddison etc unless we buck our ideas up. If we fail to get back into the CL there's going to be a huge drop in our finances. Adidas deal goes down for one.
It's hardly a big loss as it would be spread over remaining length of the contract so ideally should not impact our budget majorly.
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
15,753
Location
#SmallingPlusOne
He's justified his transfer fee already IMV. He's an absolute workhorse, improving many aspects of his game. He's what, 22? Been called up by Brazil.

You don't rate him?
I do rate him, and advocated we sign him in the summer. I see him potentially as the next great South American forward in the PL, he has some Suarez, Diego Costa similarities to me.

This has nothing to do with my challenging the predictability of the assumption that ‘he will end up at Real, Barca or Bayern.’
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
45,272
Location
Hope, We Lose
He's justified his transfer fee already IMV. He's an absolute workhorse, improving many aspects of his game. He's what, 22? Been called up by Brazil.

You don't rate him?
Andreas Pereira has been called up by Brazil. Their first non-Brazilian born player in 100 years even, in 2018. So I dont think that makes someone an expensive player

Richarlison is a good player, his form blows a bit hot and cold but as you say he's a worker. Maybe he ends up good enough for a top club, he isnt yet
 

Alabaster Codify7

Full Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
5,368
Location
Wales
There will be no major signings next summer along the lines of Sancho, Maddison etc unless we buck our ideas up. If we fail to get back into the CL there's going to be a huge drop in our finances. Adidas deal goes down for one.

This, the likes of Saul and Sancho are nothing but a pipedream unless we somehow make top 4 and the board splash out. The former, doesn't necessarily mean the latter will even happen either. In fact, our board are more likely to open the wallet if we finish 6th again - and then we're throwing money at below-par players again. The cycle continues.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
2,489
I wouldn’t even dare spend massive money on this guy. Very good midfielder but if the only way to land him is by paying his clause which is about 130m then forget it. That amount of money is for a match winner or a leader and Saul is just not the one. And also it’s a big risk money for a Spanish player who can get homesick.

If I have to choose a similar player as Saul to get and available cheaper than the 130m then it’ll be McGinn. Very similar player when I watch them so I’ll pass on Saul. 130m should be spend on the likes of Sancho, Felix & those player who has potential to be a world class player & match winner for us not his guy.
 

Bastian

Full Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
8,806
I wouldn’t even dare spend massive money on this guy. Very good midfielder but if the only way to land him is by paying his clause which is about 130m then forget it. That amount of money is for a match winner or a leader and Saul is just not the one. And also it’s a big risk money for a Spanish player who can get homesick.

If I have to choose a similar player as Saul to get and available cheaper than the 130m then it’ll be McGinn. Very similar player when I watch them so I’ll pass on Saul. 130m should be spend on the likes of Sancho, Felix & those player who has potential to be a world class player & match winner for us not his guy.
Whilst I agree that McGinn has looked very good in the few Villa games I've caught this season, he's played 4 games at a high level. Compare that to years as a mainstay in one of the best clubs in Europe...you can't really.

I'd happily have them both though.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
2,489
Whilst I agree that McGinn has looked very good in the few Villa games I've caught this season, he's played 4 games at a high level. Compare that to years as a mainstay in one of the best clubs in Europe...you can't really.

I'd happily have them both though.
I was referring to they both have similar playing style not level. Saul doesn’t play like Pogba and not Carrick. If we want someone who plays similar to Saul, then McGinn is the cheaper option.
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
45,272
Location
Hope, We Lose
I was referring to they both have similar playing style not level. Saul doesn’t play like Pogba and not Carrick. If we want someone who plays similar to Saul, then McGinn is the cheaper option.
He doesnt play like him though. McGinn has averaged just 24.5 passes and at 76.5% accuracy with 1.5 key passes. Thats on his hot streak of form. Grealish on the other hand is at 38 and 87.1% accuracy with 2 key passes a game.

So its not just because Villa don't have a lot of the ball. He just isnt passing the ball around that much and has lost it.

Saul has 50.7 passes a match, shortly behind Koke who has the most for their midfield. 82.2% accuracy and no key passes in his first 3 games. So the main thing Saul has been doing so far this season is playing lots of passes and keeping the ball a bit. But this is Saul having a slow start to the season, hes usually doing a lot more than that
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
2,489
He doesnt play like him though. McGinn has averaged just 24.5 passes and at 76.5% accuracy with 1.5 key passes. Thats on his hot streak of form. Grealish on the other hand is at 38 and 87.1% accuracy with 2 key passes a game.

So its not just because Villa don't have a lot of the ball. He just isnt passing the ball around that much and has lost it.

Saul has 50.7 passes a match, shortly behind Koke who has the most for their midfield. 82.2% accuracy and no key passes in his first 3 games. So the main thing Saul has been doing so far this season is playing lots of passes and keeping the ball a bit. But this is Saul having a slow start to the season, hes usually doing a lot more than that
I'm not sure if what you said is enough as evidence that the players don't play in similar style. What I watched from both players are that they are box to box with good amount of work rate & stamina. Both can dribble & tends to lose possession + lack of completed passing accuracy due to their risky playing style. Both likes to keep the tempo fluid & both are good defensively.

I disagree with your statement of Saul has been doing a lot passes and keeping the ball a bit. Saul last season only made 78.8% passing accuracy, that alone is closed to what you said about McGinn made 76.5% passing accuracy. Passing aren't their strongest attribute because they aren't playmaker.
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
45,272
Location
Hope, We Lose
I'm not sure if what you said is enough as evidence that the players don't play in similar style. What I watched from both players are that they are box to box with good amount of work rate & stamina. Both can dribble & tends to lose possession + lack of completed passing accuracy due to their risky playing style. Both likes to keep the tempo fluid & both are good defensively.

I disagree with your statement of Saul has been doing a lot passes and keeping the ball a bit. Saul last season only made 78.8% passing accuracy, that alone is closed to what you said about McGinn made 76.5% passing accuracy. Passing aren't their strongest attribute because they aren't playmaker.
Saul doesnt have a risky passing style. Key passes and creative passes to make opportunities aren't really part of his game and so far this season out of 3 matches he's made 0 key passes. His passing is to keep the ball. Despite not being in good form he's almost top 3 of Atletico's passing accuracy, with 3rd place Llorente at 82.9% passing accuracy compared to Saul's 82.2%. Atletico don't want to have all of the ball, thats not part of their gameplan. Their gameplan is to move the ball quickly and break on teams. While Saul is very unlikely to be the one who plays a defense splitting pass to open up a chance for a teammate, he can play a quick simple pass as part of that Atletico gameplan to move the ball to another player.

Saul has everything else though. The form he's currently in is not what you'd want if you bought him for a hefty fee. McGinn's form is more what you want but we'd need more than the few games we've seen so far in the premier league to want to pay what it would take to buy him
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
2,489
Saul doesnt have a risky passing style. Key passes and creative passes to make opportunities aren't really part of his game and so far this season out of 3 matches he's made 0 key passes. His passing is to keep the ball. Despite not being in good form he's almost top 3 of Atletico's passing accuracy, with 3rd place Llorente at 82.9% passing accuracy compared to Saul's 82.2%. Atletico don't want to have all of the ball, thats not part of their gameplan. Their gameplan is to move the ball quickly and break on teams. While Saul is very unlikely to be the one who plays a defense splitting pass to open up a chance for a teammate, he can play a quick simple pass as part of that Atletico gameplan to move the ball to another player.

Saul has everything else though. The form he's currently in is not what you'd want if you bought him for a hefty fee. McGinn's form is more what you want but we'd need more than the few games we've seen so far in the premier league to want to pay what it would take to buy him
Risky playing style is different to risky passing style and also is different to key passes. Key passes is in the same category as through ball in the final third. Risky playing style is like always looking to move forward, move the ball forward & also dribble the ball. Anything below 85% average and also last season below 79% passing accuracy is considered to be very bad for a player who is job (according to you) to keep the ball.

Saul is a natural box to box. He has the ability to dribble, fluid, tenacious, can defend, and has risky playing style. If we want the cheaper version of that type of midfielder, McGinn is one of them.
 

gajender

Full Member
Joined
May 7, 2016
Messages
613
Think its about £18 million every time we dont qualify
It's 30% of actual contract but it applies only if we fail to qualify for champions league consecutively and that amount is spread over the remaining length of the contract so assuming we again fail to qualify, it would be loss of 22.5 million but spread over remaining 5 years of the contract so 4.5 million loss a year not a big dent assuming we don't miss out again.
 

wolvored

Full Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
4,826
It's 30% of actual contract but it applies only if we fail to qualify for champions league consecutively and that amount is spread over the remaining length of the contract so assuming we again fail to qualify, it would be loss of 22.5 million but spread over remaining 5 years of the contract so 4.5 million loss a year not a big dent assuming we don't miss out again.
I Thought I read we get £75 million a year for the duration of the contract, but this drops to £57 million if we fail to qualify for Champions League
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
16,821
pretty sure of jumps back to its original numbers as soon as we qualify again.
so we only lose a percentage when we go consecutive years until we rebound again.