I really wouldn't say that our defence is great.
Scoring goals is the most important thing
- Thread starter Footyislife
- Start date
3rd best in the league this season and I would imagine the best defense for the past 17 games. It wasn't that long since teams used to waltz through us at will and we'd shit our pants.
Surely you would need to be the best in the league before we start using the word 'great'. It's no better than under Van Gaal which the OP described as 'good'.
Didn't people used to complain when Rooney "only scored goals"? Or Hernandez?
I think that a lot of fans forget how hard it actually is to put the ball in to the net
I think that a lot of fans forget how hard it actually is to put the ball in to the net
Which is why i had the addendum that for the last 17 games we've most likely been the best, that's consistent form in our defense since Mourinho has had time to settle in.
Or you've conveniently chosen a spell where we haven't played many top sides.
"Occasionally in sport you have to actually achieve the object of the game. The object of this game is to score by getting the ball into the opposing goal."
Footyislife 2017
Footyislife 2017
We played City (league cup), Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool and Everton and conceded 3 goals.
We don't have the same level of quality, directness and pace as back in Fergie's day. Players like Rooney, Ronaldo, Giggs, Nani etc who could beat players for fun, play fast tempo football and also produce consistent moments of magic to win us games. Lack a Hernandez figure who could be depended on to get you goals consistently. We also lack at full backs. Shaw has a long way to go to match Evra's importance in games.
Edit: most importantly our delivery from set pieces is bloody awful compared to Fergie's sides. For a team with players like Pogba and Ibra in it we should be scoring a lot more from corners.
Edit: most importantly our delivery from set pieces is bloody awful compared to Fergie's sides. For a team with players like Pogba and Ibra in it we should be scoring a lot more from corners.
So if we discount playing City's reserves we've kept one clean sheet in four games against decent opposition - again I'd hardly define that as great.
Some fans will never be happy. Less than a goal a game and unbeaten in 4 months in the league and still refusing to give the defense credit.
You must have missed our final against Southampton last week. If you think that's a great defence you have really low standards.
We didn't concede in our first 3 league games. Is that a sign that our defence has regressed under Mourinho?
Comparing cross leagues like that is very fishy.
Also i totally disagree that good defences go on spells where they ship goals. Maybe one or two games at most but a great defence is solid and consistent for months on end. Look at Liverpool they have arguably the best attack in the league. During January February when they crashed and burned, if they had a solid defence they would have got through that period.
If you're in spain and have the likes of front 6 barca or real have then of course nothing will stop you.
So your 1 game sample is now a more accurate sample than 4 months of play. its a final, anything can happen when 2 teams are playing for a cup. Overall our numbers have been excellent. Even the great combination of VDS Rio and Vidic were prone to letting in 3 or 4 goals from time to time.
So you're just basically resorting to nonsense now?
OK. Our defense s crap.
As for OP, revolutionary stuff, someone should inform Jose about this.
Just calling out your nonsense. Our defence is ok - we don't concede much against poorer teams but look unconvincing against better teams.
If you want to keep calling that 'great' then fine.
Yeah i will do. Thanks for agreeing with me.
You probably think its 'great' that I've agreed with you.
Yeah i do. i feel me and you could be best buds.
Do you think that I'm a 'great' guy?
Unfortunately, a lot of fans don't understand this concept.
They'd rather see a player doing a few dribbles and not scoring than someone who actually scores (ugly) goals.
Don't keep it a secret. Who was that in the video?
I was watching a compilation of Van Nistelrooys United goals there (inspired by the penalty thread) and what struck me was the quality of the attacking play and crossing from fullbacks like Silvestre who you'd look back at and think were pretty limited.
They are so much better than our current and recent fullbacks it isn't even funny. I've just watched 150 Ruud goals and the amount of times I listened to a commentator say: "and Sil-VESTRE for Van NISTELROOOOOY" is staggering. The quality of his crossing and other defenders/wide players like O'Shea, Evra, Park and Giggs is simply lightyears beyond what we've seen over the last few seasons.
Something I've thought for a while that Martial and Rashford really need to work on, is learning when not to take a man on but instead to bend a low cross around a retreating defence to find the man at the back post. Zlatan attacks that post well but nobody ever finds him in the way that a player like Giggs would do regularly. Watching these old videos it isn't only our wide attackers who should be working on this though - the fullbacks and central midfielders need to step up too.
They are so much better than our current and recent fullbacks it isn't even funny. I've just watched 150 Ruud goals and the amount of times I listened to a commentator say: "and Sil-VESTRE for Van NISTELROOOOOY" is staggering. The quality of his crossing and other defenders/wide players like O'Shea, Evra, Park and Giggs is simply lightyears beyond what we've seen over the last few seasons.
Something I've thought for a while that Martial and Rashford really need to work on, is learning when not to take a man on but instead to bend a low cross around a retreating defence to find the man at the back post. Zlatan attacks that post well but nobody ever finds him in the way that a player like Giggs would do regularly. Watching these old videos it isn't only our wide attackers who should be working on this though - the fullbacks and central midfielders need to step up too.
Fergie cared tremendously about his defence. In his first biography he even states that the defence is the foundation of attack - and without security and leadership at the back, you would have difficulty getting goals. So to say he was mostly about getting goals is incorrect.
In his first season back at Chelsea, Jose had a problem with a lack of goals. He recognised the issue and purchased Costa and Fabregas, early in the transfer window and they went on to win the league the following season. We have a very obvious problem with goalscoring, but Jose will be fully aware of it and I also expect him to have a solution in mind already.
Mourinho while he was at Inter.
I've stated this in many threads. Unfortunately many fans disagree. They'd much rather a player do some dribbles with no end product than actually score an ugly goal (without any dribbles).
We used to have a counter-attacking style where we hit teams hard and quick. Haven't had that for many years including SAF's last few. Now it's all about keeping the ball and scoring a perfect goal befitting of our players with big egos.
Rio, Vidic and Evra were crazy solid back then not just okay. We got a lot of clean sheets during their era. In fact we started winning EPL again ever since we signed Vidic. We even sold Ruud van nisterooy in the same year. I think having a solid defense is also as important as having clinical finisher too.
In that case, maybe Jose should play upfront, during Ibra's ban.
True.
But don't forget that throughout the years, MUFC have been a team known for scoring lots of goals. We have never been a team known for winning games 1-0.
Remember in 2011/2012 when Sir Alex said "I prefer win 1-0 and keep clean sheet than winning 5-4". Lol.
If we had the same defense Vidic, VDS, Evra Against Real in 2002/2003, we won't conceded a lot of goals easily.
I know Sir Alex had been playing an attacking football but I think having solid defend is also important. We might be able to change the result of final CL 2010/2011 if Sir Alex was willing to play more defensive formation like 451 instead of 442. Sometime it depends on who we are facing as well.
Nonsense is judging our defense as "okay" because we are 3rd best, rather than the fact that we have conceded only 2 more goals than the best defense. You can count on one hand the amount of games we've given up more than 1 goal. I'd say that is impressive for a new manager when we are also creating the most chances in the league. He's not parking the bus, or playing boring posession football to do this. It's just good defensive organization. When we had Rio, Vidic, and Evra at their peak we had a ridiculous defense, but that was more due to individual talent. But it was only for a few seasons out of SAF's career at United. It's early, but Mourinho's teams are generally organized better and rely less on individual talent for defense.