Serie A 90's Draft QF - EAP vs harms

Who would win in the following draft game with all players at their Serie A 90's peak?


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idmanager

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Went with EAP for now (Donadoni did it for me against Carboni with the 2 v 1 threat looming), but I do agree harms has a ever so slight edge in midfield.
Open to changing my vote based on further discussion.

Good luck lads. Cheers.
 

antohan

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Punished? How? All I questioned was the wide capabilities of a Seedorf Carboni flank. A defensive full back and a DM providing width!

Harms is the one talking about peaks, when Seedorf and Stankovic are pretty much the same. Have no idea why he brings that up.
They are not the same, and I wasn't referring to anything you said.
 

antohan

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Aye, after getting mildly perturbed at Cannavaro getting dragged into the Seedorf debate on the main thread, Seedorf actually ends up being quite comfortably the best CM on the pitch here imo :lol:. That's mostly on the basis of his Sampdoria season as he was notoriously inconsistent at Inter from memory (and I had a gander on an Inter forum out of interest and the consensus was the same). The competition isn't especially stiff though, as I didn't rate Jonk highly, Stankovic was a promising talent but barely established, and I wasn't a big fan of peak Ambrosini much less this young version.

EDIT: Edgar has perfomed ome serious surgery on that defence and it now looks fantastic, and for Harms Del Piero/Ronaldo is an incredible attack.
That's where he has done a good job. My memory of Seedorf at Inter aligns with that but I obviously don't record player impressions ordered by (half)season.
 

Enigma_87

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If it comes to Nesta vs Fenomeno and Kohler vs Del Piero it agains comes to how the former duel will end up as I trust Kohler to completely shut out Del Piero.

Of course in real situation and given how Ronaldo always hovered around the attack he'll get as much time facing Nesta as he will against Kohler...
 

antohan

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Agreed. Huge disservice to Nesta to use examples like that to say R9 would always bring that out of him.

No point when Ronaldo against any defender going only one way logic is bought up.
Well, since Kohler couldn't stop van Basten (despite clear and theme-specific evidence to the contrary) it's only fair he can't stop Ronaldo.
 

idmanager

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Well, since Kohler couldn't stop van Basten (despite clear and theme-specific evidence to the contrary) it's only fair he can't stop Ronaldo.
You need to let it go mate.
There is always a next draft :D
 

antohan

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If it comes to Nesta vs Fenomeno and Kohler vs Del Piero it agains comes to how the former duel will end up as I trust Kohler to completely shut out Del Piero.

Of course in real situation and given how Ronaldo always hovered around the attack he'll get as much time facing Nesta as he will against Kohler...
It's Nesta vs. Del Piero for the most part.
 

antohan

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You need to let it go mate.
There is always a next draft :D
No there isn't.

Nothing to do with letting go. I would just like to hear EAPs explanation on why Kohler couldn't stop van Basten but will be fine dealing with Ronaldo. If anyone can, EAP can. Somehow.
 

idmanager

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I would just like to hear EAPs explanation on why Kohler couldn't stop van Basten but will be fine dealing with Ronaldo
That is being bitter and ruining someone else's game mate. Not cool.
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
That's where he has done a good job. My memory of Seedorf at Inter aligns with that but I obviously don't record player impressions ordered by (half)season.
:lol: I was looking forward to seeing what harms came up with regarding Seedorf as he researches his players so well, and he's done a stellar job as usual.
 

2mufc0

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But then again MBV will have an easier time against Ferrara than R9 on Kohler/Nesta. Ronaldo does get given superhuman strengths in these drafts.
 

idmanager

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It's not. It's literally what I said: I would like to hear it. It genuinely intrigues me.
Kohler not being able to stop Van Basten in the last game doesn't really have anything to do with this game does it?
What did you expect EAP to say in the last game? Oh MVB sits in Kohler's pockets and Anto deserves to win. Please vote for him?

Anyways, keep blowing your trumpet about how you lost unfairly. I'll stop posting on this now.
As irritating as Nesta being Ronaldo's bitch game after game.
 

harms

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But then again MBV will have an easier time against Ferrara than R9 on Kohler/Nesta. Ronaldo does get given superhuman strengths in these drafts.
Not really. Van Basten is his main and only source of goals (even Djorkaeff scores more than Brolin), and he's up not only against Ferrara, but against Ferrara/Montero/Thuram axis.

On the other hand I have Del Piero and Ronaldo, both of whom are proven goalscorers, supported by Djorkaeff against Kohler/Nesta and at some capacity Tassotti and Ambrosini.

I know which attack is more likely to score here.
 

Theon

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Ridiculous front two from harms.

Defence is great as well, Thuram was a fantastic upgrade.
 

Enigma_87

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Tactically Edgar is much better now. He has a route to goal on the right and MvB will be getting more joy against Montero/Ferrara compared to a backline of Kohler/Nesta.

On the other hand harms has more attacking options and more variety in attack.

It's tough as I rate Edgard's midfield to probably control the game due to the more bodies and generally around the same quality as a unit.

There was a tactical feck up initially which bewildered half of his midfielders and their actual role in the game in the first 10 mins. :D
 

antohan

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Kohler not being able to stop Van Basten in the last game doesn't really have anything to do with this game does it?
Well, stylistically Kohler is better suited to deal with van Basten than Ronaldo, so I was looking forward to an explanation.

That and I found it weird there was a singular focus on Ronaldo being invincible when basically both sides have exploited that unstoppable forward goldmine.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Aye, after getting mildly perturbed at Cannavaro getting dragged into the Seedorf debate on the main thread, Seedorf actually ends up being quite comfortably the best CM on the pitch here imo :lol:. That's mostly on the basis of his Sampdoria season as he was notoriously inconsistent at Inter from memory (and I had a gander on an Inter forum out of interest and the consensus was the same). The competition isn't especially stiff though, as I didn't rate Jonk highly, Stankovic was a promising talent but barely established, and I wasn't a big fan of peak Ambrosini much less this young version.

EDIT: Edgar has perfomed ome serious surgery on that defence and it now looks fantastic, and for Harms Del Piero/Ronaldo is an incredible attack.
It's more tactics than individual battles.

Donadoni (backed by Tassotti) will have control over Carboni. I expect Montero will get dragged trying to support Carboni...and that is catastrophic when van baten is lurking there. Plus everyone seems to have forgotten Brolin.

Fact is, the only clear cut and easiest way to goal is my strong right flank against his weak left flank. You don't need for two GOATs to battle it out or start debating on hypotheticals....it's crystal here. Donadoni will own that flank.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Ridiculous front two from harms.

Defence is great as well, Thuram was a fantastic upgrade.
On the wrong side, unfortunately. Donadoni/Tassotti is my strength vs Carboni will decide this match. With Montero needing to support Carboni, Ferrera can't contain MvB on his own all game.

Plus there is Brolin who at his peak was 4th on Balon d'Or. Maybe a short and inconsistent career, but at his peak here he'll be sublime.
 

2mufc0

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Not really. Van Basten is his main and only source of goals (even Djorkaeff scores more than Brolin), and he's up not only against Ferrara, but against Ferrara/Montero/Thuram axis.

On the other hand I have Del Piero and Ronaldo, both of whom are proven goalscorers, supported by Djorkaeff against Kohler/Nesta and at some capacity Tassotti and Ambrosini.

I know which attack is more likely to score here.
You're setting up to have all central defenders watching MVB? realistically it will be Ferarra on him most of the game, unless you want to leave gaping holes for Brolin and Donadoni to exploit.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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If it comes to Nesta vs Fenomeno and Kohler vs Del Piero it agains comes to how the former duel will end up as I trust Kohler to completely shut out Del Piero.

Of course in real situation and given how Ronaldo always hovered around the attack he'll get as much time facing Nesta as he will against Kohler...
And Brolin? Whos is covering him? Evani will keep Jonk occupied and Seedorf apparently is doing everything from covering Carobi to popping up at right wing.
 

Enigma_87

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And Brolin? Whos is covering him? Evani will keep Jonk occupied and Seedorf apparently is doing everything from covering Carobi to popping up at right wing.
I was referring to harms attack and your defence coping with his duo.

For you given the mechanics and Jonk coping with Brolin(probably), whilst Seedorf will be covering or dealing with Evani.

Stankovic for you is the key here being your spare man in transition. I recall him having decent goalscoring record for Lazio, but not sure it was before or after the turn of the century?
 

harms

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You're setting up to have all central defenders watching MVB? realistically it will be Ferarra on him most of the game, unless you want to leave gaping holes for Brolin and Donadoni to exploit.
Of course not, but it would be Ferrara +1; Edgar's defenders don't have that luxury
 

sincher

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I did warn the Elephants they had little chance of further progression, but somehow Rollin' Brolin was still in the team, there was no real balance on the left, and they generally lacked pace up top. Also their manager kept confusing his players by changing the system, which gave Donadoni the almighty hump I can tell you.

Costly stuff, and not helped by Ronaldo, I would wager not for the first time in his life, having Kohler for breakfast and easily winning the pieboy contest against Brolin, a splendid enough looking player if you like the cherubic style, but who never really moved all that much nor scored enough. Like many of us, he was never as effective without his Dahlin beside him.

Lies aside, this proved a fairly routine victory for the Selfies, who won the match by dominating the midfield and starving the Elephants of possession. The match also featured an especially dodgy display from Ambrosini who kept giving away needless free-kicks and generally having trouble containing Djorkaeff and Del Piero, who back in the 90s used to drop into the hole more often than a Nick Faldo putt. It was one of these free-kicks that broke the deadlock, with Del Piero curling one in from range. Funny, in a way, it was through the middle that the Selfies were winning the battle, but the Sideburns that broke through.

The Elephants recovered a bit after that and there was good stuff down their horribly unbalanced flanks from 'The Sparrow' Pessotto and from Donadoni, when they could get him the ball, but their crosses were all calmly headed away by a fine looking trio of Peaky Blinders in Montero, Ferrara and Thuram, and Van Basten was resorted to trying worldies from way out that were sadly off target. Good job too, with Taffarel in goal. Their bubble was burst even further just before half time, when Djorkaeff fed Ronaldo and the Brazilian, always grateful for such things, smashed the Selfies' second in.

There was a brief sniff of a comeback in the second half after a royal feck up between Taffarel and Carboni. Evani played a fine ball over the top, but Carboni had switched off, and despite all the shouts of 'Amadeo! Amadeo!' from his colleagues, Carboni seemed cloth-eared, perhaps assuming his team mates were all just singing along to the 80s Falco classic. Taffarel rushed out of his goal too late to try to clear the ball but Donadoni got there first and was left with a simple finish. 2-1, and a chance for the Elephants.

The comeback did not last long, though. After one of their many cumbersome attacks broke down when Brolin basically couldn't be arseholed with trying to run onto a Stankovic through ball, Pessotto was caught upfield and Fuser made headway down the right and placed a fine cross onto Ronaldo's head for the Selfies' third. The win was then sealed when Djorkaeff's outswinging corner was headed in by Montero, remarkably still on the field despite a couple of tasty tackles on Van Basten. The Elephants were not very happy about it, but then they seem like a bit of a miserable bunch anyway. I blame their tinkering manager.

4-1 final score. Well done Selfies! We're all looking forward to your semi-final when something Brazilian about your team is bound to be the deciding factor - but will it be Ronaldo's goals, Taffarel's feckups, or maybe just the way Del Piero keeps his pubic bush?
 

antohan

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I don't recall ever arguing van Basten would get better of Kohler in our match. :)
Boo, cagey response.

In any case @idmanager, the point was bringing both strikers to the discussion.

Ronaldo was phenomenal and is well supported by Del Piero and Djorkaeff. They will score goals.

But then, at the other end, van Basten is facing Ferrara and Montero. The head to head with Ciro isn't pretty (like Kohler's was). A few weeks before we lost him forever Marco absolutely twatted Napoli in the sort of form that puts paid to any pre/post June 1990 argument.
 

Enigma_87

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Brolin of Serie A came 4th in Balon d'Or. His fall at Leeds was spectacular, but not really the player in this team.
Partly due to the feats 94 World cup tho.

Your biggest pull is controlling the game in midfield and that right flank coupled with having van Basten in monstrous form finishing off chances.
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
It's more tactics than individual battles.

Donadoni (backed by Tassotti) will have control over Carboni. I expect Montero will get dragged trying to support Carboni...and that is catastrophic when van baten is lurking there. Plus everyone seems to have forgotten Brolin.

Fact is, the only clear cut and easiest way to goal is my strong right flank against his weak left flank. You don't need for two GOATs to battle it out or start debating on hypotheticals....it's crystal here. Donadoni will own that flank.
That whole Tassotti/Donadoni/MVB Milan seam is fantastic, no doubt about it, and it's a viable route to goal. Carboni looks a bit ill at ease this high up the pitch IMO, but he was a good defender in fairness.
 

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I did warn the Elephants they had little chance of further progression, but somehow Rollin' Brolin was still in the team, there was no real balance on the left, and they generally lacked pace up top. Also their manager kept confusing his players by changing the system, which gave Donadoni the almighty hump I can tell you.

Costly stuff, and not helped by Ronaldo, I would wager not for the first time in his life, having Kohler for breakfast and easily winning the pieboy contest against Brolin, a splendid enough looking player if you like the cherubic style, but who never really moved all that much nor scored enough. Like many of us, he was never as effective without his Dahlin beside him.

Lies aside, this proved a fairly routine victory for the Selfies, who won the match by dominating the midfield and starving the Elephants of possession. The match also featured an especially dodgy display from Ambrosini who kept giving away needless free-kicks and generally having trouble containing Djorkaeff and Del Piero, who back in the 90s used to drop into the hole more often than a Nick Faldo putt. It was one of these free-kicks that broke the deadlock, with Del Piero curling one in from range. Funny, in a way, it was through the middle that the Selfies were winning the battle, but the Sideburns that broke through.

The Elephants recovered a bit after that and there was good stuff down their horribly unbalanced flanks from 'The Sparrow' Pessotto and from Donadoni, when they could get him the ball, but their crosses were all calmly headed away by a fine looking trio of Peaky Blinders in Montero, Ferrara and Thuram, and Van Basten was resorted to trying worldies from way out that were sadly off target. Good job too, with Taffarel in goal. Their bubble was burst even further just before half time, when Djorkaeff fed Ronaldo and the Brazilian, always grateful for such things, smashed the Selfies' second in.

There was a brief sniff of a comeback in the second half after a royal feck up between Taffarel and Carboni. Evani played a fine ball over the top, but Carboni had switched off, and despite all the shouts of 'Amadeo! Amadeo!' from his colleagues, Carboni seemed cloth-eared, perhaps assuming his team mates were all just singing along to the 80s Falco classic. Taffarel rushed out of his goal too late to try to clear the ball but Donadoni got there first and was left with a simple finish. 2-1, and a chance for the Elephants.

The comeback did not last long, though. After one of their many cumbersome attacks broke down when Brolin basically couldn't be arseholed with trying to run onto a Stankovic through ball, Pessotto was caught upfield and Fuser made headway down the right and placed a fine cross onto Ronaldo's head for the Selfies' third. The win was then sealed when Djorkaeff's outswinging corner was headed in by Montero, remarkably still on the field despite a couple of tasty tackles on Van Basten. The Elephants were not very happy about it, but then they seem like a bit of a miserable bunch anyway. I blame their tinkering manager.

4-1 final score. Well done Selfies! We're all looking forward to your semi-final when something Brazilian about your team is bound to be the deciding factor - but will it be Ronaldo's goals, Taffarel's feckups, or maybe just the way Del Piero keeps his pubic bush?
Where did you come from :lol:
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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That whole Tassotti/Donadoni/MVB Milan seam is fantastic, no doubt about it, and it's a viable route to goal. Carboni looks a bit ill at ease this high up the pitch IMO, but he was a good defender in fairness.
Ofc, I considered picking him. It's just that in match he is facing a far superior attack. This has a cascanding effect in pulling Montero out of position. And one on one vs MvB will only end one way.

Also Ambrosini is good enough to handle Djorkaeff. Without Djorkaeef, he'll struggle to link his deep midfield to attack and I have a significant advantage in middle.
 

antohan

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Again Brolin is forgotten here.

You have Jonk with Brolin ahead of him and Evani behind him and it'll be hard for him to cover both. Plus Brolin's movement will be hard for Jonk to tackle. Not really optimal to harms team, I suppose.
Are you feckin' kidding me? I lay it out on a plate for you and all you do is bang on about Brolin? Good player, but ultimately your issue is "can MvB score?"

As I said on the main thread, I don't hold Ronaldo's body of work in Serie A higher than Marco's even when you remove his 80s games. Barca Ronaldo and the one in his first year at Inter were terrific, but if you go by @harms' "if the defender gets beaten a couple of times it's a goal" logic Marco was the more deadly/clinical one.

I remember watching this to see how Fonseca was faring (badly, missed the most open goal in history from 5 yards) and by then end of the game thinking I really should make an effort to watch more Milan games... then a few weeks later he just stopped playing bar a few games here or there. Boom, abruptly, just like that, such a shame...


The ridiculous backpasses didn't help Nápoli, mind, but you still have to be there, chase it, fight for it and score it. Keeping the hunger to do that with all he had achieved in a game that was done and dusted, that was the other mark of this champion. A trait Brolin never really had and that's why nobody gives a feck what's up with Brolin.
 

antohan

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Ofc, I considered picking him. It's just that in match he is facing a far superior attack. This has a cascanding effect in pulling Montero out of position. And one on one vs MvB will only end one way.

Also Ambrosini is good enough to handle Djorkaeff. Without Djorkaeef, he'll struggle to link his deep midfield to attack and I have a significant advantage in middle.
No he is not. FML, your entire gameplan always seems to revolve around taking out the linkup with some random body, be it Pantsil or Ambrosini.

Ambrosini played in the 2000 Summer Olympics along with the likes of Gattuso, Zambrotta, Pirlo... all players that (like him) peaked about half a decade later. Djorkaeff was a seasoned pro at the very peak of his powers starting and winning World Cup finals.
 

harms

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Imagine my disappointment- looking at Ferrara's head to head record against van Basten - 4 games, 1 goal... and then he scores 4 in the 5th one :lol:

The key point here is that Edgar's attack is hardly superior to Milan's one at the time; while my team is significantly stronger that any Inter (or Napoli) side of the 90's, offensively and defensively.

Van Basten will very possibly score one, but he would be the only scorer for Edgar and I'd bet on me outscoring him more often than not