Sheffield United 23/24 vs Derby County 07/08

Wonder Pigeon

'Shelbourne FC Supporter'
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
21,709
Location
Forza Shelbourne
Supports
Shelbourne
Although this season's Sheffield United team are already safe from beating Derby's infamous points record, they've been compared a few times now to the worst Premier League side of all time. United have 13 points already to Derby's final total of 11, but they (and Burnley for that matter) have some work to do to surpass other stinkers of note, like Sunderland 05/06 (15 points), Huddersfield 18/19 (16 points) Aston Villa 15/16 (17 points) or Sunderland again, 02/03 (19 points). While Sheffield United have a benchmark in that Burnley side they're level on points with, they also were pasted 5-0 by that same side, one of the many, many hidings they've had this season.

Sheffield United have scored more already than Derby managed, but they're on course to beat the Rams' record of most condeded in a 38-game season (89). In fact if my maths is right (it almost never is), they're also on course to beat Swindon's record of 100 condeded, back when it was a 42 game league.

But how would they get on if they played each other? If you take, completely arbitrarily, the Derby lineup on the day they were relegated in March 2008, versus the team that lost to Arsenal yesterday, it lines up like this:


Roy Carroll
Andy Todd, Darren Leacock, Darren Moore, Eddie Lewis
Mile Sterjovski, David Jones, Robbie Savage, Hossam Ghaly
Emmanuel Villa Kenny Miller

Ivo Grbic,
Jayden Bogle, Anel Ahmedhodzic, Jack Robinson, Austin Trusty
James McAtee, Oliver Norwood, Vinicius Souza, Tom Davies, Ben Hamer
Ollie McBurnie

Up front they're quite like for like in quality, McBurnie may genuinely be a Kenny Miller regen. Derby's midfield could potentially unsettle (kick hard) the likes of McAtee and Davies, while Savage/Ahmedhodzic/Ghaly/McBurnie might end up tangled in some kind of cartoon dustcloud of futile aggression. But ultimately I would see Sheffield United exploiting Derby's aging defence pretty handily on the way to a win.

Who would come out on top? And what if you throw those dreadful Sunderland sides, the drab Huddersfield, Villa's old mercenaries et al into the mix, who would come out as the best of the worst?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I’d like to contribute to this thread but am afraid I’d just get too pissed off at the realisation we needed a 77th minute Diego Dalot long range screamer to beat the useless bastards…
Click to expand...
Absolutely. The fact that we only beat them 2-1 is genuinely embarrassing.
 
Sheffield United 20/21 is a shout. Lost about 17 of their first 18 games. Then they turned up at top of the league United and won 2-1. Still can’t believe that.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I’d like to contribute to this thread but am afraid I’d just get too pissed off at the realisation we needed a 77th minute Diego Dalot long range screamer to beat the useless bastards…
Click to expand...

If it's any consolation it also took a Portuguese scorer after 70 minutes to beat Derby by a 1-goal margin in 2008.

 
I hope they concede 100 goals
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Now hang on, we've still yet to play them at Old Trafford... where true genuine embarrassment could yet happen
Click to expand...
I’m really hoping that there isn’t a repeat of 20-21 when it comes. We should be looking to beat them comfortably. If Brighton can beat them by five goals, why can’t we.
 
Luton were the ‘Derby’ of the league campaign, and yet if they stay up, I don’t see how they aren’t the team of the season. Concerning Sheffield, is anyone on here a supporter? If yes, can I ask you whether coming up has been a blessing or curse, outside the obvious financial benefit? Is there an eagerness to do this again ASAP?
 
In my opinion the quality in the league relative to itself is at a worse level now than in that particular 2007/2008, so I'd consider this years Sheffield United a worse team than Derby
 
The Derby record will never be beaten. One of football's all time great achievements.
 
Fortitude said:
Luton were the ‘Derby’ of the league campaign, and yet if they stay up, I don’t see how they aren’t the team of the season. Concerning Sheffield, is anyone on here a supporter? If yes, can I ask you whether coming up has been a blessing or curse, outside the obvious financial benefit? Is there an eagerness to do this again ASAP?
Click to expand...

My family are Blades and I go to watch them at the Lane every now and then. My brother prefers to be in the Championship, no VAR and they are competitive every week.

Selling their two best players at the beginning of the season was a signal or their intent this season.

Also I'd expect that Wilder will stay for next season and be able to bring in players for his 352 system (overlapping CBs etc)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fortitude
leoric said:
My family are Blades and I go to watch them at the Lane every now and then. My brother prefers to be in the Championship, no VAR and they are competitive every week.

Selling their two best players at the beginning of the season was a signal or their intent this season.

Also I'd expect that Wilder will stay for next season and be able to bring in players for his 352 system (overlapping CBs etc)
Click to expand...
I just can’t imagine what it’s like to trudge from one mauling to another and pay for the privilege. I guess if there’s some kind of camaraderie amongst the fans and an acceptance that this is just what it is, you can get through it? But the misery of watching my own team bumble through a season, extrapolated to what you guys endure, I can’t see how that doesn’t lead to foul moods and the rest of it?

At least in the Championship there’s highs and lows and the feeling of hope, as you’ve said - competition.
 
Offside said:
Sheffield United 20/21 is a shout. Lost about 17 of their first 18 games. Then they turned up at top of the league United and won 2-1. Still can’t believe that.
Click to expand...
Oli Burke scored his first and only Sheffield United goal to win that fecking game. Joke of a goal as well
 
We're contenders for 15/16 season, 17 points. Sheffield United will probably beat Burnley at home (they've been far more disappointing imo) and draw a couple of games and they'll overtake us.

Sunderland also had a couple of terrible seasons in the early 2000s.
 
Fortitude said:
I just can’t imagine what it’s like to trudge from one mauling to another and pay for the privilege. I guess if there’s some kind of camaraderie amongst the fans and an acceptance that this is just what it is, you can get through it? But the misery of watching my own team bumble through a season, extrapolated to what you guys endure, I can’t see how that doesn’t lead to foul moods and the rest of it?

At least in the Championship there’s highs and lows and the feeling of hope, as you’ve said - competition.
Click to expand...
That's something some of fans could do with learning!
 
No idea how I remember this, Robert Earnshaw scoring against Arsenal for Derby that season and pissing me off by celebrating exuberantly rather than getting on with the game.

I didn't remember the circumstances but just looked it up. He'd made it Derby 2-3 Arsenal on 77 minutes in the 3rd to last game of the season. Looking at the table Arsenal were just about still involved in the title race and any dropped points would have helped us out a bit. Arsenal won 6-2 in the end anyway and we still won the league.

I remember thinking something along the lines of "you're still losing, you're still shit, now get on with it on and grab an equaliser" :lol:

Looking into it more I was probably agitated because we'd just lost away at Chelsea that same weekend and I was getting nervous about our chances.
 
Last edited:
The fact that 4 of Derby’s 11 points came against Newcastle was funny.

When we were a Premier League team (which feels like an eternity ago now and there’s a good chance we’ll be relegated to League One for a second time), the only time I was absolutely certain we’d win, was when we faced Derby at home during the back end of that season.

Re Sheffield Utd, they were such a roughhouse team in the Championship last year and horrible to play against with physical strengths, long balls, ability from set pieces, although clearly the second best team in it after Burnley. But on paper, after losing their top scorer Ndiaye, best midfielder Berge to a fellow promoted team, and Doyle following his loan spell, they were weaker this season in the Premier League than they than they were last season in the Championship. Clearly their owner being desperate to sell, but unable to as there are no serious takers, has been huge hindrance as well. How many other teams have weakened after getting promoted to the Premier League?

Villa finished 15-16th in 4 consecutive seasons before they went down right, and so they, like Sunderland, were circling the drain for a while.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fortitude
GuybrushThreepwood said:
The fact that 4 of Derby’s 11 points came against Newcastle was funny.

When we were a Premier League team (which feels like an eternity ago now and there’s a good chance we’ll be relegated to League One for a second time), the only time I was absolutely certain we’d win, was when we faced Derby at home during the back end of that season.

Re Sheffield Utd, they were such a roughhouse team in the Championship last year and horrible to play against with physical strengths, long balls, ability from set pieces, although clearly the second best team in it after Burnley. But on paper, after losing their top scorer Ndiaye, best midfielder Berge to a fellow promoted team, and Doyle following his loan spell, they were weaker this season in the Premier League than they than they were last season in the Championship. Clearly their owner being desperate to sell, but unable to as there are no serious takers, has been huge hindrance as well. How many other teams have weakened after getting promoted to the Premier League?

Villa finished 15-16th in 4 consecutive seasons before they went down right, and so they, like Sunderland, were circling the drain for a while.
Click to expand...
That's shocking. Really setting them up for the catastrophe this season has turned out to be.

So when they go down, assuming they lose no more players, will they be one of the strongest Championship signs, or is this one of those stories where it'll be a surprise for them to ever get back into the PL?
 
Fortitude said:
That's shocking. Really setting them up for the catastrophe this season has turned out to be.

So when they go down, assuming they lose no more players, will they be one of the strongest Championship signs, or is this one of those stories where it'll be a surprise for them to ever get back into the PL?
Click to expand...

I think the nature of their free fall this season, not just losing week after week but getting battered so often, plus the turmoil behind the scenes with the ownership situation, is a recipe for disaster and will mean that they’ll struggle to come back up.

There have been ‘under-resourced’ promoted teams before. For example Cardiff in 2018 - I think their wage bill was dwarfed by the other promoted teams in 2018/2019, let alone by established Premier Leagues like Palace, Southampton etc. Burnley in 2014 diverted money away from their budget for player signings, and on to building their new training ground (which Dyche to his credit fully supported - most other managers would have not been happy).

But I’m struggling to think of other examples of when clubs have actively gotten weaker after gaining promotion.
 
Burnley only having 14 points after 28 games,
is far more surprising to me (admittedly I’m biased against them), than Sheffield Utd having done so.

If we look at teams during the Premier League era that ‘stormed’ the First Division / Championship:

Sunderland in 1998/1999
Fulham in 2000/2001
Man City in 2001/2002
Portsmouth in 2002/2003
Reading in 2005/2006
Newcastle in 2009/2010
Leicester in 2013/2014
Wolves in 2017/2018
Burnley in 2022/2023

Also IIRC Charlton romped to promotion and the division title in 1999/2000, and lost focus during their final few games of the season, preventing them from approaching the 100 point mark.

Almost all of those other teams survived comfortably in the Premier League the following season, and Leicester in 2014/2015 survived after a dramatic, great escape. So Burnley being so dominant in the Championship last season, and looking set to be relegated so meekly (or even relegated at all) this season, is pretty unprecedented.
 
Last edited:
Reading today that Manchester United this season have conceded more shots after 36 games than that famous Derby team, which is quite something.
 
Wonder Pigeon said:
Reading today that Manchester United this season have conceded more shots after 36 games than that famous Derby team, which is quite something.
Click to expand...

But it's by design or something
 
Wonder Pigeon said:
If it's any consolation it also took a Portuguese scorer after 70 minutes to beat Derby by a 1-goal margin in 2008.

Click to expand...

I'd argue that was Derby's best performance all season, even though they lost in the end. Ben Foster played out of his skin that day in what I believe was his United debut.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
I'd argue that was Derby's best performance all season, even though they lost in the end. Ben Foster played out of his skin that day in what I believe was his United debut.
Click to expand...
I was convinced he was guaranteed to be Van Der Sar's successor after that game. Only for that 4-3 vs City to make my mind up (and presumably Fergie's as well) that he was a mid table PL keeper at best.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
I was convinced he was guaranteed to be Van Der Sar's successor after that game. Only for that 4-3 vs City to make my mind up (and presumably Fergie's as well) that he was a mid table PL keeper at best.
Click to expand...
Same, to the point that I joined the Caf a few days after and chose him for my username. Terrible idea in hindsight. :lol:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.