Should England take some Uncapped young stars to the World Cup?

[devil in me]

I would take the whole u19s squad, plus perhaps Sterling, Kane and Ali.
What is the point in taking a bang average squad, that inspires nobody whatsoever and yet again comes home from the group, or at best second round? Lets take a load of kids, at least then it will give us something to get excited about, whilst at the same time giving the future starts some vital experience.
There is absolutely no hope of this England squad doing anything different from the last 5 or 6 tournaments, so why not do something different? It will never happen though, because it would take a manager with something about them, which we don't have.

 

[Carl]

People always want this but, when it actually happens people get pissed(Theo Walcott 2006).

That's not really true. People only got pissed about Walcott because he took him but didn't play him. There was literally no point taking that gamble if you're not even going to give them a chance.

 

[JustFootballFan]

Of course not. You take your best players to the World Cup, you don't throw uncapped unknowns on the plane. It shows the lack of belief surrounding English football that people would even consider something like this - it's the biggest tournament on the planet, you have to give yourself every chance, and you do that by preparing and giving it your all. Gambling on some children is just pie in the sky thinking.

England have every chance of doing well, they just need to show up.

You take the best team/squad. Sancho with his ability to beat a man and create something out of nothing is certainly an interesting squad option. He´s not overplayed either for a young player. He can have an impact late in games against tired players. Rashford is probably the most similar to him as a super-sub option.

 

[Carl]

I would take the whole u19s squad, plus perhaps Sterling, Kane and Ali.
What is the point in taking a bang average squad, that inspires nobody whatsoever and yet again comes home from the group, or at best second round? Lets take a load of kids, at least then it will give us something to get excited about, whilst at the same time giving the future starts some vital experience.
There is absolutely no hope of this England squad doing anything different from the last 5 or 6 tournaments, so why not do something different? It will never happen though, because it would take a manager with something about them, which we don't have.

Silly idea really that gets thrown around quite a bit. You can't tell me the U19 squad should go in place of the likes of Lingard, Rashford, Walker and many others that have had decent seasons in the Premier League. Most of that U19 squad will never establish themselves as top flight players. Performing well at that age, amongst others of that age, is so much different to performing against men at the highest level. We've seen it over and over again.

 

[JustFootballFan]

Silly idea really that gets thrown around quite a bit. You can't tell me the U19 squad should go in place of the likes of Lingard, Rashford, Walker and many others that have had decent seasons in the Premier League. Most of that U19 squad will never establish themselves as top flight players. Performing well at that age, amongst others of that age, is so much different to performing against men at the highest level. We've seen it over and over again.

Agreed. In a way you have a similar situation as Germany in 2010, who had the experience/class of Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Klose, Podolski, Mertesacker and then came the whole bunch of the U21 team with Neuer, Hummels, Boateng, Khedira, Ozil plus Muller/Kroos. That´s basically England. Alli, Kane, Rashford, Sterling, Lingard, Stones are the "older generation" that need to build the culture, becomes leaders and gain the experience now. Then some of the youth superstars will break through in the next 2-4 years. They´ll earn their places to hopefully (for England) form a strong team for many years. So it´s actually crucial that players like Alli, Kane and Stones go to Russia and become leaders. Last 16/QF is necessary to create positive national team surroundings, but the personal growth of players like Kane is very important. Sure it´s a valuable lesson to take an 18 year old to Russia, but if he´s barely playing for his club the next two years how is he supposed to be a leader of men. You still need some veterans in the 25-30 age range for the next World Cup to lead the team.

 

[Camilo]

You take the best team/squad. Sancho with his ability to beat a man and create something out of nothing is certainly an interesting squad option. He´s not overplayed either for a young player. He can have an impact late in games against tired players. Rashford is probably the most similar to him as a super-sub option.

It's blind hope in my opinion. The grass always seems to be greener with the next generation - trust the players that are at their peaks now and see what happens. Rashford - fair enough. Young, experienced, get him on the plane. But kids that have barely seen the limelight? Not for me.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

IMHO the players who took the NT to the World Cup deserve a place in the final squad that will make the trip more than anybody else. Being a member of the group of players who will participate in the final tournament is a dream come true for most players, so i believe it will be unfair for some of them if Southgate decides to choose some uncapped footballers over others who have been with the squad since the beginning of the whole thing and they have blended well with their teammates. There are friendlies and now this new FIFA tournament that will start next fall and will give managers the chance to try as many new players as they like.

I'm saying this as someone whose country does not have a nearly guaranteed place in the final tournament (in the sense that nobody expects NT like Germany, England, France, Brazil, Argentina not to qualify and when that happens, like Italy and the Netherlands this year, it's a big deal) and we had this conversation a few times but the conclusion was always the same: The manager should prioritize the footballers who got the NT through to the final tournament.

Before anyone jumps on me, of course, there can be exceptions. But for me, these exceptions should involve players only of Ronaldo and Messi's calibre (after long injuries) or players who seem indespensable for the team. I believe the Swedes made a sound decision by not including (the previously retired) Ibrahimovic to their final squad, for example, because that would be a huge middle finger raised towards the players who went through hell in order to secure a place in the WC for their country. Anyway, lots of people i know treat this like it's a PC game but we should all realize that footballers have feelings too and that NTs are still teams that must be balanced on the pitch and in the dressing room. For instance, despite what any of us think of him, Lingard has worked his arse off to get to where he is now. Are we going to simply tell him that he won't be on the plane to Russia (for his first ever WC) because there's this kid in Holland who's had a good season in a second-tier European League (even if that kid has greater potential than Jesse)? How should this reflect on other fringe players? For me, this is not how things should work. You start calling Mount to the NT after the WC, you see how well he fits in with the others and you give him playing time if he deserves it.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

That's not really true. People only got pissed about Walcott because he took him but didn't play him. There was literally no point taking that gamble if you're not even going to give them a chance.

Rio Ferdinand gives a great speech here to England u16 a few years back (Sancho, Foden & Sessegnon are there) and talks about what a great experience France 1998 was for him although he didn't even kick a ball. Great insight into his mentality too and how to become a top player.

Before anyone jumps on me, of course, there can be exceptions. But for me, these exceptions should involve players only of Ronaldo and Messi's calibre (after long injuries) or players who seem indespensable for the team. I believe the Swedes made a sound decision by not including (the previously retired) Ibrahimovic to their final squad, for example, because that would be a huge middle finger raised towards the players who went through hell in order to secure a place in the WC for their country. Anyway, lots of people i know treat this like it's a PC game but we should all realize that footballers have feelings too and that NTs are still teams that must be balanced on the pitch and in the dressing room. For instance, despite what any of us think of him, Lingard has worked his arse off to get to where he is now. Are we going to simply tell him that he won't be on the plane to Russia (for his first ever WC) because there's this kid in Holland who's had a good season in a second-tier European League (even if that kid has greater potential than Jesse)? How should this reflect on other fringe players? For me, this is not how things should work. You start calling Mount to the NT after the WC, you see how well he fits in with the others and you give him playing time if he deserves it.

It would be someone like Lallana who would miss out, barely played all season due to injury and has never been an important player for England.

 

[saivet]

Alexander Arnold will be starting a CL final in a couple of weeks. Don't see why he shouldn't go.

I guess he's the only one that would make sense.

 

[JPRouve]

Can't they take a few to be in the squad, train with them and experience everything without actually being in the squad?

That's what France do in Handball.

 

[Josep Dowling]

I would, especially Ryan Sessegnon with the season he has had.

This generation is not good enough but the guys 5-10 years behind are winning all the major tournaments. I think it would be a good experience for some of these guys to be implemented into the squad now.

 

[devil in me]

Silly idea really that gets thrown around quite a bit. You can't tell me the U19 squad should go in place of the likes of Lingard, Rashford, Walker and many others that have had decent seasons in the Premier League. Most of that U19 squad will never establish themselves as top flight players. Performing well at that age, amongst others of that age, is so much different to performing against men at the highest level. We've seen it over and over again.

I'd take Rashford too due to his age. He could well be part of England's future. But yes, I personally would rather a large chunk of u19/20s went over the likes of Dier, Henderson, Wilshire, Welbeck etc.
It just seems utterly pointless taking our 'best squad' and coming home in exactly the same fashion as every other tournament.
I get what you're saying in that some of the U19 won't make it at the top level, but a few of them will, so why not throw them now and give us something to get excited about? I'd rather us go out having given a few potential stars such as Sancho a chance rather than the same old players doing the same old uninspiring thing.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I'd take Rashford too due to his age. He could well be part of England's future. But yes, I personally would rather a large chunk of u19/20s went over the likes of Dier, Henderson, Wilshire, Welbeck etc.
It just seems utterly pointless taking our 'best squad' and coming home in exactly the same fashion as every other tournament.
I get what you're saying in that some of the U19 won't make it at the top level, but a few of them will, so why not throw them now and give us something to get excited about? I'd rather us go out having given a few potential stars such as Sancho a chance rather than the same old players doing the same old uninspiring thing.

These are two of our best midfielders. I know it is fashionable to trash them but they are both performing at a very high level even if they are not elite tier.

 

[JustFootballFan]

It would be someone like Lallana who would miss out, barely played all season due to injury and has never been an important player for England.

1. Agreed due to injury
2. Completely disagree. His combination of workrate, vision and technical ability make him pretty unique and a key contributor for England.

 

[devil in me]

These are two of our best midfielders. I know it is fashionable to trash them but they are both performing at a very high level even if they are not elite tier.

This is kind of the point. The national team is in a position where these are 2 of our best midfielders. It just shows that we really need to start doing something a bit different, both for this tournament and for the future. Because going to Russia with those 2 in the side is going to be as uninspiring as it gets. Its not as if taking a few of the kids would be replacing world class players who would give a chance of doing well. They'd be replacing very average players.

 

[JulesWinnfield]

I would take the whole u19s squad, plus perhaps Sterling, Kane and Ali.
What is the point in taking a bang average squad, that inspires nobody whatsoever and yet again comes home from the group, or at best second round? Lets take a load of kids, at least then it will give us something to get excited about, whilst at the same time giving the future starts some vital experience.
There is absolutely no hope of this England squad doing anything different from the last 5 or 6 tournaments, so why not do something different? It will never happen though, because it would take a manager with something about them, which we don't have.

This is such an awful idea its amazing how often fans repeat it. The reason a manager would never do it is because no one with the ability to be a professional manager could possibly be so stupid.

Firstly, England are nowhere near so bad the team is "at best second round". Are you really telling me you can not even in a best case scenario see England defeating Poland, Senegal, Colombia, or Japan in a second round game?

Secondly, even if you took the under 19 side, people would not be favourable to them WHEN they did badly. When they invariably got knocked out at the group stage because they're still mainly kids with little first team experience, people, mainly the people who suggested such an idea in the first place will be the same ones slating them and endlessly going on about how overrated they are for losing to Tunisia.

Thirdly, you can't tell how they will even develop so its a waste to put all your eggs in one basket and hope they do. England have taken far more established young players to world cups who never pushed on. Look at the last world cup, 4 years on Shaw isn't remotely in contention, Barkley isn't in contention, Wilshere if he makes the squad in the first place looks like he'll only do so because of injury to Ox, Ox himself was pretty useless the 3 years after that world cup, Smalling won't even be part of the squad. Where exactly is the evidence that simply going to a world cup is so good for developing players? There's absolutely none. Doing well at a world cup maybe.

Fourthly, your plan involves writing off young players who've done nothing wrong for England anyway. Apparently Pickford, Lingard, Stones, RLC, Maguire etc are gone despite never playing in a tournament in the first place.

Finally, have you ever actually seen a team give up a world cup in favour of supposedly building for the next one? No you haven't. There's a reason. It's an utterly stupid idea that fans really need to stop parroting.

 

[Wumminator]

This is kind of the point. The national team is in a position where these are 2 of our best midfielders. It just shows that we really need to start doing something a bit different, both for this tournament and for the future. Because going to Russia with those 2 in the side is going to be as uninspiring as it gets. Its not as if taking a few of the kids would be replacing world class players who would give a chance of doing well. They'd be replacing very average players.

Tbf I think you’re right, when has a team with the likes of Henderson as a regular ever done well in cup competitions?

 

[devil in me]

This is such an awful idea its amazing how often fans repeat it. The reason a manager would never do it is because no one with the ability to be a professional manager could possibly be so stupid.

Firstly, England are nowhere near so bad the team is "at best second round". Are you really telling me you can not even in a best case scenario see England defeating Poland, Senegal, Colombia, or Japan in a second round game?

Have you watched any of England's last few tournaments? And this England squad is probably the worst out of the lot.
Ok, lets take the same players and do the same thing all over again. That'll be fun.

 

[saivet]

Tbf I think you’re right, when has a team with the likes of Henderson as a regular ever done well in cup competitions?

Does the CL this season not count?

We do have average midfield options but to not take Dier, Henderson or even Wilshere to the WC replacing them with some u19 with no PL experience is stupid. In 3 years time these guys might be a bit part player in the Championship, whereas the guys we're palming off as trash will likely still be in the PL.

If they prove themselves at a top league level they will get their chance.

 

[JulesWinnfield]

Have you watched any of England's last few tournaments? And this England squad is probably the worst out of the lot.
Ok, lets take the same players and do the same thing all over again. That'll be fun.

So you think it'll be more fun when a bunch of players who've never or barely played pro football get thrown to the lions, inevitably do badly, and then what? What have they learned? The fun of everyone piling on how overrated they are and can't do it in senior football? Learning from the seniors? Well no, you've dropped almost all the seniors.

And what about all the other young players who've never done anything wrong for England but bizarrely are too old in their early 20's so need to also be wrote off and dropped? Let's drop Pickford for some inferior academy goalkeeper because...?

I take it you won't be watching football next season because largely the same United side will be playing under the same manager and were nowhere near to winning the league or champions league, so no point really is there? Football never changes apparently. Might as well just play the academy in the champions league right, no chance of winning it right?

 

[VorZakone]

Yes, you need a few wild cards in the WC, not players who will predictably put in shit performances as usual.

 

[Nickthepip]

I'm afraid Rashford won't even get that much of a chance at WC. Sterling, Alli, the Ox and Lingard in front of him for wider/behind the striker positions and Kane with Vardy up front. He'll be the one that comes from the bench like he's used to at United. We'll see, maybe with a good game in group stage he could get a chance.

*as the Ox is injured there are still Lallana and Welbeck. I just hope Southgate makes the right decision.

I don’t agree. I think he’ll be a starter with Sterling either side of Kane. He’ll be fresh and hungry and out to prove a point.

No way I’d be leaving him on the bench, Vardy can be the impact sub.

It’s Alli vs Lingard for the AM role.

 

[Wumminator]

I think people are overly harsh on England at the World Cup I really do.

There’s been 12 tournaments since 1966. Effectively the same amount of CL finals since we last won it.

We have never been the favourites. We’ve sometimes got further than others. This is actually shaping up to be a pretty decent England team tbf.

 

[devil in me]

So you think it'll be more fun when a bunch of players who've never or barely played pro football get thrown to the lions, inevitably do badly, and then what? What have they learned? The fun of everyone piling on how overrated they are and can't do it in senior football? Learning from the seniors? Well no, you've dropped almost all the seniors.

And what about all the other young players who've never done anything wrong for England but bizarrely are too old in their early 20's so need to also be wrote off and dropped? Let's drop Pickford for some inferior academy goalkeeper because...?

I take it you won't be watching football next season because largely the same United side will be playing under the same manager and were nowhere near to winning the league or champions league, so no point really is there? Football never changes apparently. Might as well just play the academy in the champions league right, no chance of winning it right?

Wow.
Yes it would be much more fun to watch the kids, that is kind of the point, watching England recently has been as dull as it gets. And the likes of Alexander Arnold, Sessegnon, Loftus Cheek, Delli Alli, Rashford, Sancho, Sterling, Kane wouldn't exaclty be 'a bunch of players who have never played pro football', would they?
Too old in their early 20s? I literally said I would include Sterling, Kane and Alli.
And yeah, I'll give up on United....because domestic football is exactly the same as international tournament football, isn't it?

 

[JulesWinnfield]

Wow.
Yes it would be much more fun to watch the kids, that is kind of the point, watching England recently has been as dull as it gets. And the likes of Alexander Arnold, Sessegnon, Loftus Cheek, Delli Alli, Rashford, Sancho, Sterling, Kane wouldn't exaclty be 'a bunch of players who have never played pro football', would they?
Too old in their early 20s? I literally said I would include Sterling, Kane and Alli.
And yeah, I'll give up on United....because domestic football is exactly the same as international tournament football, isn't it?

The only players you mentioned there who qualify for an England under 19 side are Rashford and Sancho. Even if I give you Arnold who is 19, do you seriously think Arnold is a better player than Kyle Walker for example? Think that playing him would lead to more exciting games? How and why?

Well your central premise is the side isn't good enough and is boring - accusations that could certainly be levelled at United's champions league campaign. So why not suggest the same there? No one over 23, develop for the future right? Get Matic out the team, keep McTominay in right - definitely not going to win it because you were so far off this year, why not develop the player for the future? Get Sanchez out, Chong in. Tuanzebe starting every game, same logic isn't it? You know the reason you wouldn't suggest that is because its a silly idea. But histrionics over England takes place over common sense.

 

[devil in me]

Well your central premise is the side isn't good enough and is boring - accusations that could certainly be levelled at United's champions league campaign. So why not suggest the same there? No one over 25, develop for the future right?

You know its because its a silly idea.

If United were producing the same thing over and over again, season after season, then yes, I would suggest that maybe it might be time to do something a bit different, absolutely. And developing youth would probably be a good place to start, yes.

I just think that if the England team for our first game included Arnold, Sessegnon, Loftus Cheek, Sancho, Alli , Sterling, Rashford, Kane (for example) rather than the likely starting 11, then it would be a lot more inspiring and exciting, thats all.

 

[saivet]

Wow.
Yes it would be much more fun to watch the kids, that is kind of the point, watching England recently has been as dull as it gets. And the likes of Alexander Arnold, Sessegnon, Loftus Cheek, Delli Alli, Rashford, Sancho, Sterling, Kane wouldn't exaclty be 'a bunch of players who have never played pro football', would they?
Too old in their early 20s? I literally said I would include Sterling, Kane and Alli.
And yeah, I'll give up on United....because domestic football is exactly the same as international tournament football, isn't it?

Alex Arnold might make it and even if he doesn't it will be Walker (best RB in the PL this season) and Trippier (first tournament for him) ahead of him.

Out of the players you've mentioned I think only Sessegnon and Sancho won't go. You say select all the u19s, but who are you talking about? Which players are you on about that aren't in with a shout?

 

[devil in me]

Alex Arnold might make it and even if he doesn't it will be Walker (best RB in the PL this season) and Trippier (first tournament for him) ahead of him.

Out of the players you've mentioned I think only Sessegnon and Sancho won't go. You say select all the u19s, but who are you talking about? Which players are you on about that aren't in with a shout?

To be honest, 'all the under 19s' was probably a bit rash, considering I don't know half the squad! My general point was that it seems totally pointless to take the same players as usual and produce a tournament exactly the same as what we've produced consistently in our recent history, especially when we've got a talented bunch of youngsters at the younger levels. Some of our best players are already the younger ones, so replacing the 'dead wood' with some young talent, we could have a really exciting squad.
Who knows, England may surprise us, but I just don't see how its going to be any different from previous tournaments.

 

[saivet]

Even most of the experienced players in the square aren't that experienced. You're talking Welbeck (who I hope doesn't go in the summer)

I wonder how many have played (and started) in more than one tournament?

I'm thinking Hart, Cahill and Welbeck. If none of them make the squad it won't be a shock.

 

[promisedlanchiao]

Dean Henderson, Sessegnon and arnold all have good cases to be in the squad in my opinion. Sancho is too inexperienced along with Angel.

Henderson - Brilliant for shrewsbury and the main reason why they ended 3rd in League One and will most likely get to the playoff final. Was their Player of The Year and in the League One Team of The Season too. Would make a better 3rd keeper option than the likely one, joe hart due to his youth and goalkeeping ability.

Sessegnon - Such a talented player. Scored loads of great goals from the left back position in a tough league (ignore what some arrogant and ignorant people say about the Championship). Player of The Season in the Championship at 17 which everyone agreed with as well. Such a good talent and would bode well for the future.

Arnold - While I really hate to say this, this guy is an absolute must take to the World Cup. Thankfully, another liverpool player, clyne will be the fall guy in this situation.
Apart from a few games (such as the one where he was destroyed by Rashford twice), he has been very solid and possibly better than van dijk has been for them. Shouldn’t be starting yet though as walker is still better than him. Another one that bodes well for the future too.