Should penalty shoot-outs use the same method as tie-breaks in tennis ?

[lysglimt]

I agree with Pique - the team taking the first penalty has a huge advantage. I read someplace that that the team taking the first penalty in a penalty shoot-out has roughly a 65-35 chance of winning. To me it seems teams have got a lot better at taking penalties, and the less missed penalties, the more pressure on the team shooting 2nd. They will always be trailing - and the psychological pressure will be much higher on this team.

So how about using the tie-break system used in tennis (known as the ABBA-method because it's basically ABBA-ABBA-AB). The difference being that both teams will have a chance of leading the shoot-out without the opponent missing their penalties.

Would be a much better system

 

[Eurotrash]

What I don't quite get is why one team gets both advantages - choosing the side and who goes first.

 

[slyadams]

I agree with Pique - the team taking the first penalty has a huge advantage. I read someplace that that the team taking the first penalty in a penalty shoot-out has roughly a 65-35 chance of winning. To me it seems teams have got a lot better at taking penalties, and the less missed penalties, the more pressure on the team shooting 2nd. They will always be trailing - and the psychological pressure will be much higher on this team.

So how about using the tie-break system used in tennis (known as the ABBA-method because it's basically ABBA-ABBA-AB). The difference being that both teams will have a chance of leading the shoot-out without the opponent missing their penalties.

Would be a much better system

This has been done before hasn’t it? Can’t remember quite in what competitions and for how long though.

 

[Mcking]

They tried it before, not sure why they stopped using it.

Another thing is the toss. I think the referee currently makes two tosses, one to decide who goes first, and the other to decide the end where the shoot-out is taken. It should be one toss. The winner gets to decide either end or who goes first/second, while the loser gets to decide the other one.

That way, one team won't get to take the first penalty in front of their fans like Villarreal did against us, and Italy against Spain yesterday.

 

[Revan]

Of course they should. It is pretty idiotic for the team who wins the toss (unless it is Bruno) to get such a huge advantage.

 

[Samid]

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/abba.431312/page-9

 

[JPRouve]

Should the order of penalty takers be randomized before the game?

 

[Mcking]

What I don't quite get is why one team gets both advantages - choosing the side and who goes first.

This. It is due to the use of two tosses. If you win both tosses, then you get both advantages.

 

[Zlatan 7]

No, it’s fine as it is. Both teams facing pressure. If you go first and miss you know the other team only has to score to win, seems enough pressure to me.

that ABBA thing they tried before is almost as bad as this new behind the penalty taker camera angle they use

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

How about the draw being decided like Tennis as well? Right now it is just random and having number one ranking is barely important.

 

[WeePat]

I agree with Pique - the team taking the first penalty has a huge advantage. I read someplace that that the team taking the first penalty in a penalty shoot-out has roughly a 65-35 chance of winning. To me it seems teams have got a lot better at taking penalties, and the less missed penalties, the more pressure on the team shooting 2nd. They will always be trailing - and the psychological pressure will be much higher on this team.

So how about using the tie-break system used in tennis (known as the ABBA-method because it's basically ABBA-ABBA-AB). The difference being that both teams will have a chance of leading the shoot-out without the opponent missing their penalties.

Would be a much better system

Pique is right of course, but I didn't see those crocodile tears when Spain went first against Switzerland and won, so meh.

 

[Desert Eagle]

It should be ABBA and it should be one toss with the winner deciding to go first or choosing which end and the loser getting the other. That would be most fair.

 

[Mcking]

It should be ABBA and it should be one toss with the winner deciding to go first or choosing which end and the loser getting the other. That would be most fair.

Exactly

 

[Hughes35]

In terms of fairness, it probably should be the ABBA system...... Is that as exciting though? I'm not saying it isn't, just not sure as I've never seen it.

 

[Siorac]

Yeah, I'm a fan of the ABBA system.

But when I first saw the thread, I thought you were going to propose 'advantage scoring': that is, you have to win the shootout by at least two goals, like how you need to win two consecutive points when the score is 'deuce' in tennis.

 

[Dan_F]

Team with the most shots on goal gets to go first. Obviously I’m only semi serious.

 

[Alex99]

Yeah, I'm a fan of the ABBA system.

But when I first saw the thread, I thought you were going to propose 'advantage scoring': that is, you have to win the shootout by at least two goals, like how you need to win two consecutive points when the score is 'deuce' in tennis.

That's what I thought he was getting at as well. First to 5, but you have to be winning by 2 clear goals, otherwise you keep taking until you are. I was imagining a team reaching the end of the regulation 5 kicks at 5-4 up and then going on to lose 7-5.

Back on topic, I thought they'd trialled ABBA at some point and it wasn't great?

 

[Lay]

Of course they should. It is pretty idiotic for the team who wins the toss (unless it is Bruno) to get such a huge advantage.

Oh man. Still can’t get over that

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I believe it’s 60.5% if you go first.

how were Italy able to take the first penalty AND for it to be at the Italian end?

 

[Nickelodeon]

I will never be able to answer this question without remembering that Bruno chose to go second. How on earth?!

 

[kthanksbye]

The first toss does not allow the captain to "choose" the side, the ref assigns a side to each side of the coin and whatever lands face up, pens happen on that end.

 

[Dan_F]

The first toss does not allow the captain to "choose" the side, the ref assigns a side to each side of the coin and whatever lands face up, pens happen on that end.

That’s basically the same thing. It’s a 50/50 chance you’ll be in front of your fans.

 

[AdamColeBebe]

Both teams in dressing room.

One team and the opponent's goalkeeper go to the pitch and they take their five penalties (other team stays in their dressing room)

Penalty taking team returns to their dressing room and the other team goes ahead and takes their penalties.

Both teams have no idea how the other team did.

Then both teams come out to the pitch and the results are announced.

Done.

Not a serious suggestion

 

[Salt Bailly]

Both teams in dressing room.

One team and the opponent's goalkeeper go to the pitch and they take their five penalties (other team stays in their dressing room)

Penalty taking team returns to their dressing room and the other team goes ahead and takes their penalties.

Both teams have no idea how the other team did.

Then both teams come out to the pitch and the results are announced.

Done.

Not a serious suggestion

I think you may be on to something here. Get all the fans to leave in advance too so that they don't give the game away.

 

[Zlatan 7]

I think you may be on to something here. Get all the fans to leave in advance too so that they don't give the game away.

Just keep the players on the field blindfolded with headphones on.

 

[BFernandes]

This thread needs to be sent to Bruno.

 

[bsCallout]

I will never be able to answer this question without remembering that Bruno chose to go second. How on earth?!

Wouldn't have made a difference though would it? Based on how it went. I find it amazing how one shootout can be like that with no one missing, then Switzerland vs Spain with pretty much everyone missing.

 

[kthanksbye]

That’s basically the same thing. It’s a 50/50 chance you’ll be in front of your fans.

Yes it is pretty much the same thing, I just thought I'd put it out there.

 

[GazTheLegend]

Is it bad that I think the reason they don't do it is because our referees would feck it up

 

[kthanksbye]

I have read the idea that after 90 mins the teams continue with 10 men, then every 5 mins the teams will have to keep eliminating one player. That would be fun to watch.

 

[Jev]

No, it’s fine as it is. Both teams facing pressure. If you go first and miss you know the other team only has to score to win, seems enough pressure to me.

that ABBA thing they tried before is almost as bad as this new behind the penalty taker camera angle they use

The statistics clearly show that going first is a huge advantage. If the ABBA system evens that out, there's really no good argument against it.

 

[André Dominguez]

This would be an interest approach, using the same points system as tie-breaks.

 

[Siorac]

That's what I thought he was getting at as well. First to 5, but you have to be winning by 2 clear goals, otherwise you keep taking until you are. I was imagining a team reaching the end of the regulation 5 kicks at 5-4 up and then going on to lose 7-5.

I wouldn't be against testing that, really. In some youth tournament or something, just to see what it's like. Penalty shootouts might be horrifyingly long with this method though.

 

[big rons sovereign]

They tried it before, not sure why they stopped using it.

Another thing is the toss. I think the referee currently makes two tosses, one to decide who goes first, and the other to decide the end where the shoot-out is taken. It should be one toss. The winner gets to decide either end or who goes first/second, while the loser gets to decide the other one.

That way, one team won't get to take the first penalty in front of their fans like Villarreal did against us, and Italy against Spain yesterday.

The thing about that I never understood is, they have practice goals for the warm up before the game. How hard would it be to wheel one to the half way line?
The whole going first thing meant nothing since Italy missed anyway. And so did Spain.
It's just sour grapes.

 

[Dante]

Decide it by the number of shots on target during extra time.

 

[Oranges038]

It's a chance for both sides based on the toss of a coin, everything else depends on that. If from outset the chances are 50/50 either way from the original toss, any percentages that show one side benefiting more than the other after that mean nothing.

 

[Zlatan 7]

The statistics clearly show that going first is a huge advantage. If the ABBA system evens that out, there's really no good argument against it.

Seeing percentages in this thread like 60% doesn’t seem too huge to me.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

I will never be able to answer this question without remembering that Bruno chose to go second. How on earth?!

Its so annoying. I'm convinced we would have won the shootout had we gone second. One of the Villareal lot would have felt the pressure of missing and being knocked out

 

[Salt Bailly]

Just keep the players on the field blindfolded with headphones on.

And leave them that way for their own pens.

 

[Lay]

The old MLS style shootouts is what we really need