Should we consider selling Pogba?

[lex talionis]

I am not on board with getting rid of one of our best players -- and am seriously concerned with the suggestion that we should consider doing so.

We know the areas where we need to strengthen the squad -- RW, DM and CB. The task ahead is to strengthen areas which need strengthening, not to weaken the squad by depleting the squad in one of its strongest areas.

 

[GiddyUp]

If Paul was to leave, difference between being sold and leaving btw, if he was to leave we would be looking at least double that figure. He is the best player at Manchester United one of the best clubs in the world, for those two things alone he will cost a kings ransom.

The pundits have done a number on fans but if you think Paul is worth 60mil, how much do you value Grealish or VDB then.



They are many examples go look on youtube and pundit opinion is not the be all end all either.

Fancy talking about assists and goals on a player who has been playing deep all year, you need help mate.




No one cares if you are or not, does that give you the right to talk nonsense? No.

Paul does not have to take penalties but in no team should a new player come in and take penalties like Fernandes has. Marcus Rashford or Anthony should be taking penalties.

Who is our best player if not Paul?

So if I gather what you are saying correctly you would like Paul to have pay cut to roughly 200k while De Gea is on 375k? Not sure you are worth responding to at this point, carry on.

Your agenda against Bruno is very clear.

 

[JPRouve]

I think Bruno needs to cover the central areas during defensive phases. As Pogba is deeper then he's got to be the man to track fullbacks coming forward. Wan Bissaka has to be trusted 1 v 1 against wide attackers but they're doubling up on him and it's causing problems. So attacks down our right should be covered by Pogba, with Fred/Matic/Whoever and Bruno covering balls into midfielders centrally. In my opinion, of course.

I prefer a sliding midfield and that's why I think Matic should be upgraded with someone more mobile. Essentially the CMs are in charge of the touchline on their half while the AM positions himself at the oppositve end. So for example if Pogba is the LCM and the ball is on our left wing, Pogba slides to the left and chase the ball carrier, the RCM slides to the left and covers Pogba's back while the AM drops to the right of the RCM and covers him, if the opposition completely shift play to the right wing in the same attacking sequence the AM is the one chasing the ball carrier on the right wing.

The goal being to always bracket the ball carrier with one player chasing hard and 2 or 3 covering the surrounding areas. France and Atletico do that systematically and it means that the middle of the pitch is supposed to never be emptied during the defensive transition. That's why I prefer to have an advanced 8 in the mold of Lampard to a second striker like Bruno did in some of our recent games, I prefer when he plays deeper because we have wide forwards instead of traditional wingers

 

[sourdough satellite]

Your agenda against Bruno is very clear.

He's not even an United fan

 

[Dec9003]

Or we could try to get the best out of him by playing him in a position that's the most suited to his skills...

What does that mean, though? If it means pushing him further forward and giving him little defensive responsibility then it’s not possible imo.

 

[glazed]

His best position is 20 yards in front of N'Golo Kanté. Easy

 

[SirScholes]

No he has fantastic talent it’s on the coach to build a team that gets the best out of him, for me he needs a mobile Matic kind of player, or Fred when he’s having a 9/10 game
Don’t know why he isn’t smashing shots from distance any more, needs to bring that back in

 

[SirScholes]

His best position is 20 yards in front of N'Golo Kanté. Easy

Yes

 

[murali_red]

I don't really know what's his best position and who is that guy who can fully 'unlock' him.

He has unlock himself if he really wants to be among best players in the world and achieve his potential. He needs to take games by scruff the neck and show some urgency. He is good enough for a box to box but rarely attempts these days, it would be great if Bruno and Pogbo switch roles sometimes to caught opposition napping. He had enough players around him to get an idea of how he could contribute better. For an elite player, he should give more.

 

[Bastian]

I don't think we should sell him. Firstly, there is no way we're getting fair price this summer, and secondly, he offers something very unique. That second part is also the problem. Against sides who sit deep, he's fine in the pivot of a 4231, but against attacking sides who have energy to press and ability to maintain possession, he offers something like yesterday, moments of brilliance and moments of sloppiness. He's not physically up to the box to box role. So Ole either has to adapt his tactics against better sides or choose between Pogba and Bruno at #10 (easy choice).

 

[Kaos]

At a time where we're severely lacking in squad depth and some of us here are entertaining the idea of selling one of our best players? I despair sometimes.

 

[Dante]

If he's going to stay, I'd want Pogba and Bruno rotated as the #10. I don't think you can have a midfield 3 containing the two of them in the PL/CL.

You might be able to get it to work in international football. But that's played at a different pace and intensity, with only 2 or 3 difficult games every couple of years.

 

[Fracture90]

What does that mean, though? If it means pushing him further forward and giving him little defensive responsibility then it’s not possible imo.

I've already addressed this, but for the life of me i cannot go back and look for the comment right now

 

[Banana Republic]

What does that mean, though? If it means pushing him further forward and giving him little defensive responsibility then it’s not possible imo.

Defensive responsibility?
I think if he's head is in the right place, Pogba is a great asset for Utd; but as talented as he is, and there's no denying he's very talented, other than being in the box to head away set pieces and corners, he shows absolutely no inclination, desire or ability to carry out defensive duties in the deeper central midfield role and never has.
He can't and won't normally attempt to tackle or win a ball, doesn't press or close down players properly, if at all, and meanders around allowing the opposition to play around and sometimes through us.
At 27.5 years old, he's not going to change this aspect of his game now, even if it was possible.

Ole needs to maximise his strengths and abilities and play him in front of a more robust and mobile, defensive midfield pair; or further advanced up the pitch, where he can work his magic and provide attacking and scoring opportunities for our forwards.
Otherwise, I think his performances and career will continue to drift, until his motivation and desire begins to gradually ebb away, terminally.
There's a real danger of him going down in the history books, filed (along with so many others), under "unfulfilled promise".

 

[sunwukong]

I wouldn't say he was awful last night, but for me he was our most disappointing player. He's meant to be one of our best players, if not the best, yet he just disappeared, as he does all too often in big games (for France too; my French friends can't stand him for this reason).

Where have his long-range screamers gone? His shots have almost all been appalling this season. He's in theory one of the most technically skilled players on the team; where have his forward runs past players into attacking positions gone? People complain about him having to contribute defensively, but were we under that much pressure from Sevilla? Did he contribute that much defensively anyway? Even Fred got forward a fair bit, despite in theory being the defensive mid.

To me, he just seems to be going through the motions, doing the minimum possible. While I wouldn't agree we should be looking to sell him, his form is certainly worrying, and even more is his apparent lack of effort and commitment. When was the last time he dominated a game like Bruno has been doing? If he doesn't improve over the next few months, especially with a potential new contract, we should be considering if despite his evident talent he's just not going to fulfil his potential here, like Lukaku.

Perhaps a proper defensive mid would help (he seems to play better with Matic), but then we don't seem to be particularly looking for one this window.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

If he's going to stay, I'd want Pogba and Bruno rotated as the #10. I don't think you can have a midfield 3 containing the two of them in the PL/CL.

You might be able to get it to work in international football. But that's played at a different pace and intensity, with only 2 or 3 difficult games every couple of years.

Why can't you have a midfield 3 with them?

City made it work with Silva and De Bruyne.

We saw it work last night vs Sevilla.

 

[Dec9003]

Defensive responsibility?
I think if he's head is in the right place, Pogba is a great asset for Utd; but as talented as he is, and there's no denying he's very talented, other than being in the box to head away set pieces and corners, he shows absolutely no inclination, desire or ability to carry out defensive duties in the deeper central midfield role and never has.
He can't and won't normally attempt to tackle or win a ball, doesn't press or close down players properly, if at all, and meanders around allowing the opposition to play around and sometimes through us.
At 27.5 years old, he's not going to change this aspect of his game now, even if it was possible.

If all this is true and we can’t make him a competent midfield player then I don’t see a place for him. He can’t take Bruno’s place, he’s brought too much to the side to be dropped for a Pogba with no ‘inclination’ to do the hard work required.

 

[Dante]

Why can't you have a midfield 3 with them?

City made it work with Silva and De Bruyne.

We saw it work last night vs Sevilla.

De Bruyne and Silva are both fantastic at running games.

Yesterday, it was Banega who took the game by the scruff of the neck. Pogba did really well when Sevilla started to sit back and give him space. But up until then it was Banega's game. Don't get me wrong... Pogba has the ability to do it. But he's not shown it at PL, EL or CL level in midfield (maybe he could do it in Serie A, but I don't watch that league very much).

Neither Pogba nor Bruno are the types to set the tempo or dominate the passing when the opposition is trying to do the same. Game management isn't their strength. They're a different breed from KdB and Silva. We can't regularly afford the two of them at the same time.

 

[In Rainbows]

Why can't you have a midfield 3 with them?

City made it work with Silva and De Bruyne.

We saw it work last night vs Sevilla.

It's definitely possible. We're still missing the Scholes/Carrick quality from one of our midfield 3. That's not a knock on Bruno or Pogba. It just means that we need to upgrade that 3rd midfielder. That midfielder should be our best player in retaining possession through technical excellence, and awareness.

They don't necessarily have to be some defensive midfielder. They could be, but it's not a requirement. That player needs to have great passing ability, and can slow things down when the time calls for it, or speed things up because they see an opening to start off an attacking transition. Pogba has that quality, but is inconsistent in showcasing it because he's not as disciplined or rather his lankiness can see him losing the ball in tight situations from time to time in deeper positions. Pogba also wants to affect the final 3rd a little more ideally.

Fred, nor Matic are Scholes. None can control a match through their passing ability or technical ability. Fred is too eratic, and Matic is too slow.

The problem is finding that player on the market. I was in favor of getting Frenkie De Jong for that role, but he obviously wanted to go to Barca. A little different, but PSG have that in Verratti. Real Madrid have that kind of player in Modric. Barca in their best period had Xavi.

You can be a little more flexible if you have that kind of player. You can bring in a more defensive player to make the team more defensively solid, but bottom line is it's an important member in historically dominant sides. This is why I'll never view Pogba as the part that needs to be upgraded. It's clear that 3rd partner needs to be found. We have time on our side as Pogba is only 27 years old, and Bruno is only 26 years old (about to turn 26).

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

De Bruyne and Silva are both fantastic at running games.

Yesterday, it was Banega who took the game by the scruff of the neck. Pogba did really well when Sevilla started to sit back and give him space. But up until then it was Banega's game. Don't get me wrong... Pogba has the ability to do it. But he's not shown it at PL, EL or CL level in midfield (maybe he could do it in Serie A, but I don't watch that league very much).

Neither Pogba nor Bruno are the types to set the tempo or dominate the passing when the opposition is trying to do the same. Game management isn't their strength. They're a different breed from KdB and Silva. We can't regularly afford the two of them at the same time.

I don't see De Bruyne and Silva as those type of midfielders either to be honest. Most of De Bruyne's work comes in the final 3rd similar to Bruno(just does so with fairly higher precision) Pep prioritizes possession through his positional play, so of course those 2 will look better at running games. We don't set up in the same way.

I don't see them in the mold of a Xavi, Pirlo or Scholes.

De Bruyne just had a game where his passing accuracy was 58% vs Lyon. 58%.

 

[redmanx]

Im sick to death of all the excuses people churn out for Pogba; this is a guy with all the talent in the world but he seems to think the world of football owes him something; its Pogba who owes football, especially the supporters of United. If not for the covid crisis he would have left this summer but hes not stupid and knows no club is going to pay upwards of 85 million for him and agree to the wages hes on now and United wont let him go for much less, so hes happy to sign a new contract, take the money and wait. I still think he'll be go as soon as he can and I for one wont lose any sleep over his leaving.

 

[Foxbatt]

He is obviously very talented but I see no role for him at United with Bruno in the side. Bruno is quicker than Pogba and I think has a better footballing brain and is a better team player. What Pogba did last night or has been doing recently most of the top midfield players in the PL would do. He over loads the defending on one midfield player and Ole was right in selecting Fred but I said even before the match too I would drop a striker and play Matic and Fred both and push Bruno forward and push Pogba in the final third.
With what he is doing now I would sell him and get another decent player who can carry the ball and shoot from range, create and also defend a bit. Also with a bit of pace.

 

[Canadianred17]

This thread is a joke.

 

[RashysTekkers]

The team is on the up and there are people who actually wanted to sell one of our best player. And replace him with who ? Sean fecking Longstaff ? Get a grip.

 

[LVGSdive]

So we should sell Pogba for a 30 year old injury prone player whos never played in the PL is an upgrade?

Pandemic or no pandemic, as Dortmund have shown, WC players hold their value.

Pogba is an injury prone player himself. Is that even a thing not playing in the
Premier League before? People often bring this up. Is there proof that players that haven't played in the Premier League are not as good as players that have? Or is this just something banded about by pundits or fans that sticks without any stats or studies to show this is the case.

 

[Withnail]

Your agenda against Bruno is very clear.

That the man who has missed two penalties in his entire career, the last of which was nearly two years ago, shouldn't be on penalties is a good one

 

[Withnail]

Is pogba getting the blame for Martial missing chances? Lindeloff, Maguire and Wan Bissaka not doing basic defending? Rashford not turning up?

Pogba, Fred and Fernandes were the only players that turning up.

Yes, yes he is

 

[romufc]

Pogba is an injury prone player himself. Is that even a thing not playing in the Pre
Premier League before? People bring this up. Is there proof that players that haven't played in the Premier League are not as good as players that have? Or is this just something banded about by pundits or fans that sticks without any studies to show this is the case.

Pogba is injury prone? Please show me proof? There is proof e.g Sweinsteiger.

Pogba is here performing well, why change it for someone who is 2 years older? I guess you are one of Pogba out so no point saying nothing to you.

 

[GiddyUp]

The team is on the up and there are people who actually wanted to sell one of our best player. And replace him with who ? Sean fecking Longstaff ? Get a grip.

Not one person said that. Get a grip.

 

[Denis' cuff]

People still talking in terms of him becoming a world class player. He’s 27 ffs. This is it. Like Lingard, he isn’t a young player, suddenly going to become a world beater. He’s been here how long now? ... and we’re still having the same discussion. He is a luxury player who blows hot and cold, at best. We still can’t make our minds up which is his best pos. To say he was brilliant the other night is just silly. He did have a decent spell but that does not equal “brilliant”. Bruno has stolen his thunder and I just don’t see another role for him, unless he suddenly becomes what his fanboys think he is.

 

[LVGSdive]

Pogba is injury prone? Please show me proof? There is proof e.g Sweinsteiger.

Pogba is here performing well, why change it for someone who is 2 years older? I guess you are one of Pogba out so no point saying nothing to you.

Pogba played in 20 games in all competitions last season for United. Thiago played in 40 games in all competitions last season for Bayern, he might even play in 2 more if Bayern reach the Champions league final.

So who is more injury prone?

I'm not Pogba out at all, but I believe that Thiago is an upgrade on Pogba so given the option to sell Pogba and bring Thiago in, I'd take it.

I'm not saying Pogba is bad or we should just get rid of him. I'm saying that if we can get an upgrade I'd take it.

 

[romufc]

Pogba played in 20 games in all competitions last season for United. Thiago played in 40 games in all competitions last season for Bayern, he might even play in 2 more if Bayern reach the Champions league final.

So who is more injury prone?

I'm not Pogba out at all, but I believe that Thiago is an upgrade on Pogba so given the option to sell Pogba and bring Thiago in, I'd take it.

I'm not saying Pogba is bad or we should just get rid of him. I'm saying that if we can get an upgrade I'd take it.

This is an example of choosing data to suit the narrative. You pick the season where Pogba has been injured and Thiago played more games.

A 29 year old is not an upgrade to a 27 year old who is playing well for the club. What does Thiago bring that Pogba doesnt?

 

[oreon]

This is moot. There are no buyers. PSG, Juventus & Madrid are not looking to spend big this summer. No one can afford him in this environment hence why we should extend his contract

 

[Clermontois]

Your agenda against Bruno is very clear.

I do not care enough to have an agenda against Fernandes. He should not be on penalties before other players. The seniority and team is what matters more. Take Vidal for instance he took penalties at Juventus then he went to Bayern and wanted to take them there as well but senior players said no.

That is how football is and the wider world is I can only see what Ole did with Maguire in making him a captain so soon as well as with Fernandes and penalties causing an issue in the long run.The way Lindelof argued with Fernandes looked like he was telling him to know his place. I wonder why anyone would have to say that to a new player.

He's not even an United fan

Jog on sourdough.

That the man who has missed two penalties in his entire career, the last of which was nearly two years ago, shouldn't be on penalties is a good one

Yes he should not be, Marcus Rashford and Paul were out injured when he came in so he took them, fair enough. But once Rashford came back though they should have been his.

 

[Valuedrug]

If he signs a new contract, and stops his transfer antics for good, there is basically a unique player of world class talent right there. That being said, as solid as his numbers are and his obviously amazing ceiling as a footballer, he still makes incredibly poor decisions in very dangerous positions for a midfielder. If someone had been willing to pay a big fee this summer, I wouldn't have been opposed to selling him, and bringing in more players in the mental mold of Bruno Fernandes. But since he effectively got stuck here, we should make the best of it now, and Ole and his team seem to be doing exactly that.

I can't count the amount of times I have praised his brilliance during the games, so I'm not unhappy for the relationship to be given another chance. The terrible way of running the club in the majority of this tenure here puts the blame just as much on United as Paul, so let's see how we go from here.

 

[tomaldinho1]

No one is going to pay close to what we'd want for him so it's pointless to discuss.

What's clear is most fans have lost a fair bit of hope when it comes to him really fulfilling his potential, he strikes me as a player who will always blow hot and cold and the way he plays football he'll always create moments of magic but have them alongside his more frustrating ones which tend to be losing the ball in dangerous areas. When you look at Liverpool's midfield and see the value of tenacity and workrate it's easy to see why some fans think we might be a better all round team if he left and was replaced by a different type of midfielder - I personally think he has to have a lot more structure around him, we're very fluid and frantic when we attack & if he had a dedicated DM to play in front of I think he'd settle into his role really well. He's looked better with Matic behind him for example but if we can find someone more dynamic there, it will help him and our slow battleship centre backs out no end.

 

[GiddyUp]

I do not care enough to have an agenda against Fernandes. He should not be on penalties before other players. The seniority and team is what matters more. Take Vidal for instance he took penalties at Juventus then he went to Bayern and wanted to take them there as well but senior players said no.

That is how football is and the wider world is I can only see what Ole did with Maguire in making him a captain so soon as well as with Fernandes and penalties causing an issue in the long run.The way Lindelof argued with Fernandes looked like he was telling him to know his place. I wonder why anyone would have to say that to a new player.


Jog on sourdough.


Yes he should not be, Marcus Rashford and Paul were out injured when he came in so he took them, fair enough. But once Rashford came back though they should have been his.

Best penalty taker in the team you fool you. I know you love Pogba but that's a fecking ridiculous thing to say. Now your agenda is really fecking clear.

 

[Withnail]

I do not care enough to have an agenda against Fernandes. He should not be on penalties before other players. The seniority and team is what matters more.

Yes he should not be, Marcus Rashford and Paul were out injured when he came in so he took them, fair enough. But once Rashford came back though they should have been his.

This is nonsense. Once he was put on them and continued slotting them away to change to another player who has a lower success rate makes no sense.

For all we know, this was discussed internally and the players all agreed Bruno should continue. You're making an issue out of a non-issue

The players all seem happy and there's no evidence of disharmony within the group.

 

[Suedesi]

I was watching some old Juve footage, and it’s noticeable how much further up and to the left Pogba played. He’s playing in the Pirlo role at United, and he’s not equipped to do that. IMO Ole missed a trick by not taking Rashford off vs Sevilla, moving Pogba up In his place and playing Matic or McT with Fred.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I was watching some old Juve footage, and it’s noticeable how much further up and to the left Pogba played. He’s playing in the Pirlo role at United, and he’s not equipped to do that. IMO Ole missed a trick by not taking Rashford off vs Sevilla, moving Pogba up In his place and playing Matic or McT with Fred.

That's how the club has been.

Buy a poacher in Lukaku and play him with his back to goal, then blame him and ship him out. Buy a young striker in Martial and play him left wing, then blame him and want to ship him out. Buy a superb AM in Mata and play him on the RW, then blame him. Buy LCM Pogba and play him at DM, then blame him and want to ship him out.

It's gotten really tiring. Can't we just slot a player into his best role and play him there to excel? Must it always be backwards?