Sir Alex initial years

[Devil_3565]

This is a question to the members who actually lived through the initial years of Sir Alex's tenure as our manager.
What signs of changes did you notice which helped you keep faith in the man even though results were less than stellar on the pitch?
Did he exhibit all the qualities that we have come to associate with him now, right from the very start?
Without making any bold predictions, do you see any parallels between the rebuild job that is happening now and what you had seen back then?

This is an exercise to help some people gain perspective over the evolution of a football club and building winning teams.

 

[TheNewEra]

This is a question to the members who actually lived through the initial years of Sir Alex's tenure as our manager.
What signs of changes did you notice which helped you keep faith in the man even though results were less than stellar on the pitch?
Did he exhibit all the qualities that we have come to associate with him now, right from the very start?
Without making any bold predictions, do you see any parallels between the rebuild job that is happening now and what you had seen back then?

This is an exercise to help some people gain perspective over the evolution of a football club and building winning teams.

There's plenty of videos even if you weren't alive/at an age to watch the games then (A channel called ManchesterRed has plenty of old games)

https://www.youtube.com/user/Sunstroker

There's an 89/90 behind the scenes for example before we won the title:


(if you are interested)

 

[The Boy]

As an oppo fan I can remember thinking Ferguson was spunking money away and not seeing much for it. I also thought Lee Sharpe was one of his best signings and a top player

 

[Devil_3565]

There's plenty of videos even if you weren't alive/at an age to watch the games then (A channel called ManchesterRed has plenty of old games)

https://www.youtube.com/user/Sunstroker

There's an 89/90 behind the scenes for example before we won the title:


(if you are interested)

Much appreciated. Will check them out.

 

[11101]

I was young but through a mixture of memories and hearsay i remember it being a little like now. He had a way he wanted to play and couldn't/wouldn't budge too far from that, and he struggled a bit with the players who were not capable of doing it. The team would have periods of progress then regression, but the progress bought him enough time to bring in the players that believed in his vision and could play his way. The more of those he brought in the better the team got.

Ole is doing the same thing. Whether he will become a master at it is yet to be seen, but he is going about things the right way.

 

[Roane]

Wasn't that dissimilar to what Ole went through in terms of people wanting him out at certain points.

He was making some funny decisions too at the beginning in terms of playing players out of position.

 

[Josh 76]

Fergies success was built around 3 eras
Eric Cantana
Class of 92
Ronaldo

The gold dust signings, Keane, Rio and Rooney helped glue it altogether.

When you have built that foundation, the money which was wasted is not remembered.

What a legend!

 

[The Cat]

I can remember being in the away end at Highbury and him bringing on Beardsmore and Darren Ferguson during the second half and taking off Robson and Hughes while we were losing and not being impressed.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

This is a question to the members who actually lived through the initial years of Sir Alex's tenure as our manager.
What signs of changes did you notice which helped you keep faith in the man even though results were less than stellar on the pitch?
Did he exhibit all the qualities that we have come to associate with him now, right from the very start?
Without making any bold predictions, do you see any parallels between the rebuild job that is happening now and what you had seen back then?

This is an exercise to help some people gain perspective over the evolution of a football club and building winning teams.

I kept faith because he inherited a woeful squad that couldn't defend and Robson apart lacked midfield guile. We relied on Robson heavily and without him we never looked assured IMO. I always knew it needed revamping and he started with the youth set up. It took time, getting out players who couldn't be arsed, talented as they were and bringing in players who reflected his ethic at Aberdeen.

Cantona was a masterstroke as was getting Schmeichel on the cheap!

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I can remember being in the away end at Highbury and him bringing on Beardsmore and Darren Ferguson during the second half and taking off Robson and Hughes while we were losing and not being impressed.

I was at that game. The stick I took from arse fans afterwards. We had the last laugh though

 

[GoldanoGraham]

I remember him getting in a goal scorer - Brian McClair - first player to score more than 20 in a season.......

He also had to clear out some of the trouble makers - and break up the drinking culture.....getting rid of Paul McGrath was not popular but he stuck by his guns and the club stuck by him.......

Mark Robbins scoring at Norwich in the FA Cup was the start for Fergie - there was a lot of discontent at that time - and he was 4 or 5 years in at that stage and Liverpool were winning everything.....

What wasn’t obvious to everyone was the complete overhaul taking place behind the scenes.....that was the foundation for his future success......nobody would ever get that scope or grace again to do that as you need to be winning from early on......much easier in a world without social media

 

[Keefy18]

Just barely missed those early 4 years up to the first trophy win.

My earliest memories of watching United was Hughes brace vs Barca in the then Cup winners cup final, think it was on ITV and was clicking around and remember Sparky's winner.

Anyway, I'd imagine Ferguson's proven winner mentality north of the border bought him some serious good will by the board as well.

 

[.Phil1968]

I was a match going red at the time with my 80 quid LMTB in my pocket. I remember 1988 and 1989 being very grim with some terrible performances. One midweek game Vs Sheffield Wednesday is probably the worst game I have ever seen and to be honest I expected Fergie to get the bullet in 1990 however that cup run turned us round completely.
Of course there was no way of knowing what was going on behind the scenes with Fergie setting the foundations for future success but there was a lot of anger on the terraces usually aimed at the manager.
Bringing Hughesie back , buying McClair Bruce and Pallister were master strokes which eventually bore fruit.
Looking back I was lucky to be old enough to follow us through those times as the good times were remarkable after that.

 

[Class of 63]

SAF signed four players from non-league football for United in his first few years at Old Trafford, not a lot of people know that.

 

[Al-T]

Sir Alex first full season 1987/88 I remember thinking we looked quite decent. McClair was a decent buy, tough, uncompromising striker. We only lost a handful of games that season and may have progressed as a side quicker had we been able to play in the UEFA cup the following season but couldn't because of Heysel and the ban on English clubs.

Hand on heart, I always felt Sir Alex would get us there because what he achieved at Aberdeen was truly remarkable.

 

[montpelier]

I thought he was fairly terrible up until the 6-2 win at Highbury.

The 2nd place season on the back of McClairs goals seemed like an exception/freak. As did winning the Cup in 1990 but both good for buying time I suppose.

He had been left a big pile of deadwood by Big Ron though.

Resigning Hughes was good but that was about it, at that stage.

Lee Sharpe done wonders for my morale in the first instance - Cup Winners Cup season. That was the first point at which I seriously thought he might know what he was doing.

 

[Tribec]

I'd had a season ticket since the start of the 80's, though I was still in primary school way back then. So whilst we'd not won the league with Big Ron, you could guarantee that we'd try to play exciting football. Towards Big Ron's final year he made some strange transfers, almost desperate which left the first team squad in a poor way. Fergie came in and quickly realised that he had to clear house to rid us of the drinking culture. The problem with that was those involved were our better players. Looking back now, it's easy to see why we struggled during that period, the squad wasn't good enough. We relied on Robson so much and he was part of the drinking culture, injury prone and getting old, and we had no real talent coming through the youth system either.

Yes, McClair came in and scored the goals in his first year, but Viv Anderson didn't quite do the job that we wanted, at this point in time a lot of Fergie's signing were hit and miss. We all thought that Hughes and McClair would be a potent strike force, but it wasn't it was almost like England trying to play Gerrard and Lampard together, talented as both were they never really exploded in the way we thought they would. Some of the performances in this period was woeful, some of the worse I've seen by United. Again using modern references look at how under LVG and Jose we complained about the lack of flair and pace, it was the same then. What wasn't known was we had a golden crop of youngsters coming through, it was some how kept quiet even when Giggs broke through no one really knew of the potential of the rest of that generation. The cup run of 90 bought Fergie time, but it also gave the players the confidence and knowledge on how to win something and you could see from that point a change in the club. It looked like the players had had a weight lifted from the back, and with each cup won after that they got better and better till we won that first league and any baggage still left was gone.

As others have said Ole seems to be mirroring Fergie right now, all be it slightly different in that the discontent at Fergie was due to the years of his management that didn't seem to improving the team, where as Ole seems to be getting the discontent from a generation of fans brought up on winning the league and everything else every year or two add to this the current climate where managers aren't given a chance to build anything unless they instantly win something.

 

[montpelier]

I'd had a season ticket since the start of the 80's, though I was still in primary school way back then. So whilst we'd not won the league with Big Ron, you could guarantee that we'd try to play exciting football. Towards Big Ron's final year he made some strange transfers, almost desperate which left the first team squad in a poor way. Fergie came in and quickly realised that he had to clear house to rid us of the drinking culture. The problem with that was those involved were our better players. Looking back now, it's easy to see why we struggled during that period, the squad wasn't good enough. We relied on Robson so much and he was part of the drinking culture, injury prone and getting old, and we had no real talent coming through the youth system either.

Yes, McClair came in and scored the goals in his first year, but Viv Anderson didn't quite do the job that we wanted, at this point in time a lot of Fergie's signing were hit and miss. We all thought that Hughes and McClair would be a potent strike force, but it wasn't it was almost like England trying to play Gerrard and Lampard together, talented as both were they never really exploded in the way we thought they would. Some of the performances in this period was woeful, some of the worse I've seen by United. Again using modern references look at how under LVG and Jose we complained about the lack of flair and pace, it was the same then. What wasn't known was we had a golden crop of youngsters coming through, it was some how kept quiet even when Giggs broke through no one really knew of the potential of the rest of that generation. The cup run of 90 bought Fergie time, but it also gave the players the confidence and knowledge on how to win something and you could see from that point a change in the club. It looked like the players had had a weight lifted from the back, and with each cup won after that they got better and better till we won that first league and any baggage still left was gone.

As others have said Ole seems to be mirroring Fergie right now, all be it slightly different in that the discontent at Fergie was due to the years of his management that didn't seem to improving the team, where as Ole seems to be getting the discontent from a generation of fans brought up on winning the league and everything else every year or two add to this the current climate where managers aren't given a chance to build anything unless they instantly win something.

Great post.

Prior to his last year, I'd really liked Big Ron's teams and most of his signings. All collapsed very quickly after the 85/6 falling apart (Hughes - Barca & Robson injuries).

 

[MoskvaRed]

I thought he was fairly terrible up until the 6-2 win at Highbury.

The 2nd place season on the back of McClairs goals seemed like an exception/freak. As did winning the Cup in 1990 but both good for buying time I suppose.

He had been left a big pile of deadwood by Big Ron though.

Resigning Hughes was good but that was about it, at that stage.

Lee Sharpe done wonders for my morale in the first instance - Cup Winners Cup season. That was the first point at which I seriously thought he might know what he was doing.

This sums up my recollections as well. I was delighted when we hired him after his exploits at Aberdeen but, by 89 and 90, I had lost faith. It’s fair to say that he had decidedly mixed results with his first attempt at rebuilding the squad. The ECWC in 91 was the genuine breakthrough, and Fergie was also putting together a brilliant run of transfer business - Irwin, Schmeichel, Kanchelskis and then the final piece of the jigsaw in Eric.

 

[Devil_3565]

I'd had a season ticket since the start of the 80's, though I was still in primary school way back then. So whilst we'd not won the league with Big Ron, you could guarantee that we'd try to play exciting football. Towards Big Ron's final year he made some strange transfers, almost desperate which left the first team squad in a poor way. Fergie came in and quickly realised that he had to clear house to rid us of the drinking culture. The problem with that was those involved were our better players. Looking back now, it's easy to see why we struggled during that period, the squad wasn't good enough. We relied on Robson so much and he was part of the drinking culture, injury prone and getting old, and we had no real talent coming through the youth system either.

Yes, McClair came in and scored the goals in his first year, but Viv Anderson didn't quite do the job that we wanted, at this point in time a lot of Fergie's signing were hit and miss. We all thought that Hughes and McClair would be a potent strike force, but it wasn't it was almost like England trying to play Gerrard and Lampard together, talented as both were they never really exploded in the way we thought they would. Some of the performances in this period was woeful, some of the worse I've seen by United. Again using modern references look at how under LVG and Jose we complained about the lack of flair and pace, it was the same then. What wasn't known was we had a golden crop of youngsters coming through, it was some how kept quiet even when Giggs broke through no one really knew of the potential of the rest of that generation. The cup run of 90 bought Fergie time, but it also gave the players the confidence and knowledge on how to win something and you could see from that point a change in the club. It looked like the players had had a weight lifted from the back, and with each cup won after that they got better and better till we won that first league and any baggage still left was gone.

As others have said Ole seems to be mirroring Fergie right now, all be it slightly different in that the discontent at Fergie was due to the years of his management that didn't seem to improving the team, where as Ole seems to be getting the discontent from a generation of fans brought up on winning the league and everything else every year or two add to this the current climate where managers aren't given a chance to build anything unless they instantly win something.

Very insightful.. Thank you

 

[clarkydaz]

the cabbage patch Old Trafford pitch

 

[Eckers99]

I remember it being pretty grim, even after he'd spunked a load of cash on Webb, Ince, Wallace, Bruce etc. They took a long time to gel and, until the FA cup win over Palace, a lot of fans were running out of patience. The 5-1 spanking at Maine Rd being the nadir.

Also, most of the real development was going on behind the scenes, especially with the youth set up, so it wasn't immediately obvious what he was trying to do. Bit similar to the churn of players and lack of identity when he left really.

From that first trophy in 1990, we got better year on year, culminating in '99.

 

[Foxbatt]

Fergie came with a proven track record at Aberdeen when Scottish football was still extremely good. He had the backbone of a very good team that Ron let it slide.
On our day under Ron we would beat anyone. But we were too inconsistent to win the league.
What we lacked was a world class keeper and centre backs. When we got them we won the title. Eric lifted us to a different level but we should have won the league the previous year.
There is nothing common with Ole. Not even the style we play. United under saf can out pass any team and out fight and normally out pace most teams.
Our set pieces were good under Fergie. Not so under Ole yet.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

Mixed memories. The football could be quite grim. The had a lot of fun in the terraces with my mates.

Didn't want Fergie to get sacked, but also didn't think he was going to stay.

I was look up some old stuff before, this video is from 91 and it's when things have started to improve but a decent glimpse into earlier Fergie



Edit: the way Fergie would try youth players was the thing that was best about him from early on

 

[sport2793]

Fergie came with a proven track record at Aberdeen when Scottish football was still extremely good. He had the backbone of a very good team that Ron let it slide.
On our day under Ron we would beat anyone. But we were too inconsistent to win the league.
What we lacked was a world class keeper and centre backs. When we got them we won the title. Eric lifted us to a different level but we should have won the league the previous year.
There is nothing common with Ole. Not even the style we play. United under saf can out pass any team and out fight and normally out pace most teams.
Our set pieces were good under Fergie. Not so under Ole yet.

This was definitely not true at the latter end of his tenure.

 

[Foxbatt]

This was definitely not true at the latter end of his tenure.

Of course we could. Just because for an year or two Arsenal were better passers didn't mean we couldn't outpass them. We may get beaten by Barca but any team would get beaten by them.

 

[sglowrider]

We were what you would a cup team back then. Lots of wasted money spent on some dubious signings. Ferguson's constant battles with Martin Edwards over transfers was another memory.

 

[sport2793]

Of course we could. Just because for an year or two Arsenal were better passers didn't mean we couldn't outpass them. We may get beaten by Barca but any team would get beaten by them.

Athletic Bilbao was a notable disappointment and not reflective of a top team.

 

[90 + 5min]

I'd had a season ticket since the start of the 80's, though I was still in primary school way back then. So whilst we'd not won the league with Big Ron, you could guarantee that we'd try to play exciting football. Towards Big Ron's final year he made some strange transfers, almost desperate which left the first team squad in a poor way. Fergie came in and quickly realised that he had to clear house to rid us of the drinking culture. The problem with that was those involved were our better players. Looking back now, it's easy to see why we struggled during that period, the squad wasn't good enough. We relied on Robson so much and he was part of the drinking culture, injury prone and getting old, and we had no real talent coming through the youth system either.

Yes, McClair came in and scored the goals in his first year, but Viv Anderson didn't quite do the job that we wanted, at this point in time a lot of Fergie's signing were hit and miss. We all thought that Hughes and McClair would be a potent strike force, but it wasn't it was almost like England trying to play Gerrard and Lampard together, talented as both were they never really exploded in the way we thought they would. Some of the performances in this period was woeful, some of the worse I've seen by United. Again using modern references look at how under LVG and Jose we complained about the lack of flair and pace, it was the same then. What wasn't known was we had a golden crop of youngsters coming through, it was some how kept quiet even when Giggs broke through no one really knew of the potential of the rest of that generation. The cup run of 90 bought Fergie time, but it also gave the players the confidence and knowledge on how to win something and you could see from that point a change in the club. It looked like the players had had a weight lifted from the back, and with each cup won after that they got better and better till we won that first league and any baggage still left was gone.

As others have said Ole seems to be mirroring Fergie right now, all be it slightly different in that the discontent at Fergie was due to the years of his management that didn't seem to improving the team, where as Ole seems to be getting the discontent from a generation of fans brought up on winning the league and everything else every year or two add to this the current climate where managers aren't given a chance to build anything unless they instantly win something.

Absolutly spot on.

Like you said, cup run of 90 bought him time. Time he actually didn't have. Because if we are being honest, his time as a manager could have ended year before. Pressure was starting to build around club and him. Luckly we didn't sack him. He took then some brave, even unpopular, decisions and had a plan that worked shortly after.

 

[red woppit]

I remember that some of the football that we played in the early years was uninspiring, and culminated in the famous 'ta ra Fergie' flag. The main work with the club was getting the youth set up right. It took 7 years to win the Premiership (Division I when SAF took over). There were several excellent signings, McClair, Sharpe, Hughes, but also some poor ones, Milne, Prunier. To be fair, myself and a lot of United supporters that I knew, never thought Fergie' would be as successful as he was, it was not really until around 93/94 that we realised something was happening with the club. There are simerlarities with the current set up under Ole, he has set great stall in the academy, for example. It just shows that if you belief in the manager, and support them through thick and thin to then you may end up with lots of silverware, that's why posters who slate Ole have no concept of how a team/squad is built. The 'we want it today' brigade just cannot see that at all. Ole is far ahead of where SAF was in his tenure at the same juncture.

 

[Revaulx]

I was a match going red at the time with my 80 quid LMTB in my pocket. I remember 1988 and 1989 being very grim with some terrible performances. One midweek game Vs Sheffield Wednesday is probably the worst game I have ever seen and to be honest I expected Fergie to get the bullet in 1990 however that cup run turned us round completely.
Of course there was no way of knowing what was going on behind the scenes with Fergie setting the foundations for future success but there was a lot of anger on the terraces usually aimed at the manager.
Bringing Hughesie back , buying McClair Bruce and Pallister were master strokes which eventually bore fruit.
Looking back I was lucky to be old enough to follow us through those times as the good times were remarkable after that.

Don’t forget that we absolutely destroyed league champions Arsenal 4-1 in the first match of the 1989-90 season. Then immediately went on a terrible run, which included the City 1-5 pasting and I think the Wednesday match you mention. The odd fantastic performance among a lot of poor to awful ones did help to keep people onside though.
Although, as you mention, bringing Hughes back eventually bore fruit, it didn’t seem like a good idea at first. Mc Clair, supported by Whiteside and the much maligned Davenport, had been a revelation the previous season, but he and Hughes really struggled to form any sort of understanding On the latter’s return and our attack looked nothing like as fluid or prolific as it had done.
We also suffered awful luck with injuries. Neil Webb started brilliantly and looked like a fantastic signing, but was injured on England duty and never recovered that early magic. Danny Wallace’s MS was a cruel blow. Jim Leighton was great in his first season, but then turned to crap totally out of the blue.

 

[Houdini]

Cantona was the best value for the money in football history.

 

[SirMattlives]

As a comparative oldie here, my memories are less the style of play, which always seemed mixed over a few games, than the way Fergie carried himself in the early years. Sounds odd perhaps but I remember his comments, his attitude to questions, (remember when he said on TV after a game at Anfield that you had to swallow your vomit to accept the refs decisions at Anfield, or something like that? Loved him for that), his rather clear statements about how the club had to change and how he had a goal which was nothing less than winning the league (it had been a long time then) -- that was the goal and that was what he came to do. He said things that made me believe, even if I could correlate that to the way we played at the time. Crerand and Charlton sometimes spoke and mentioned that Fergie was totally transforming the club behind the scenes and that mattered to me - I trusted they knew what was going on. I always say about SAF that while I might be spitting blood when we lost or played badly, I took consolation in the fact that no matter how frustrated I was, Fergie would be feeling it worse. Strange but true -- I learned to trust his instincts and his desire to win. I've never felt that about any other manager and one of the things that slightly annoys me about Ole is he tries to be positive a little too much, I'd prefer if he ranted and raved sometimes about a poor decision or sloppy goal conceded.

On the pitch, I would have endless arguments with folks at work (non-United supporters) about our improvements at the time. They slagged the transfers (I sort of agreed with them about Webb at the time) claimed the defense was dodgy, that United were conceited etc) and I would try to counter with stats, examples etc. No point -- bias trumps data in tribalism everytime. Can't say I believed we'd dominate the 90s as we did, that only became apparent when we did it

 

[Needham]

Thought this was gong to be a thread about when we called him SAF.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Hoping this thread to get more posts and insights.

Cheers so far.

I remember many fans wanted him gone in his earliest years.

 

[Leethal]

Exactly the same shit as we're seeing now in regards to Ole.

People were impatient, questioned everything he did, and wanted him out; whilst being completely oblivious to the progress and cultural shifts that were taking place behind the scenes, to ensure future sustainability.

 

[The Brown Bull]

I remember not being all that impressed by SAF for a long time.
The football certainly didn't improve much for a long time.
Impossible to know {as a fan} the structural changes that he was making of course.
In 89 I believe most fans would have been happy to see him go.

 

[RedRonaldo]

I start supporting Man Utd when we have Hughes, McClaire, Sharpe, Giggs etc but it wasn't good enough to win the league yet, but we are almost there. Then we have Cantona out of nowhere, and the rest is history.

 

[Pretzels81]

86-90 and 90-92 are different animals.

90-92 is when it took off. 86-90 could have been a 14-20 at best...

 

[Class of 63]

Mixed memories. The football could be quite grim. The had a lot of fun in the terraces with my mates.

Didn't want Fergie to get sacked, but also didn't think he was going to stay.

I was look up some old stuff before, this video is from 91 and it's when things have started to improve but a decent glimpse into earlier Fergie



Edit: the way Fergie would try youth players was the thing that was best about him from early on

Including a certain Gary Walsh.

It was unheard of for an 18 year old keeper to get game time unless in an emergency back then, but to named first choice keeper was something else.

If it wasn't for injuries, and a fear of the ball at his feet he could've been one of the very best.