Sjor Harmsopoly SF - Enigma vs Michaelf7

With players at their listed peak, who would win? (only votes accompanied by a comment count)

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Physiocrat

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Enigma

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MichaelF7

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Enigma Tactics

F
ormation: 4-3-3, Direct, quick transitions and hitting the opposition with pace.

Defence:
At the heart of the defence we have one of Argentina's finest - Daniel Passarella, who is playing in his natural LCB role. Right next to him is Forster who is one of the best markers in the game, taking care of the opposition striker mainly. Ruud Krol will be playing in a balanced full back role, supporting the attack when proceedings are on the left flank and also holding fort in the defensive phase. On the right Zanetti will be in his natural attacking right back role.

Midfield:
Franz Beckenbauer will play sorts of a libero role that most likely he would occupy if he played today as he is the midfield general that would affect the game more from just in front of the defence. He can initiate the attacks, start move from deep but also protect the back four and sniff out the opposition danger when called upon. Alongside Kaiser Franz, we have Robson in his natural B2B role complimented with Sir Bobby in the attacking third. Robson will be playing as advanced playmaker, linking defence with attack and also probing for goal and attacking the box.

Attack:
A mouthwatering duo we have the Benfica's most renown player in Eusebio who will play in his natural SS role, probing the flank and also attacking the box. His natural instinct and goalscoring prowess will make it really hard to be contained especially with the service getting from behind. Robin van Persie plays in his striker role of his late and peak Arsenal days. On the right we have Dejan Savicevic - 2nd in Ballon D'or when Red Star won it. His trickery, pace and directness will help gain numerical advantage when taking on the opposition defender and allowing space for Eusebio and Batistuta in the box.

Focal points:
- all of our players are in their peak form. They either made their name in the team chosen or are in at their career peak.
- rock solid defence shielded by one of the GOAT's in the game.
- Sir Bobby, Eusebio and Batistuta have a lot of goals in their game each of them contributing with different aspects to the team.

Beckenbauer at his peak:

Midfield battle with Charlton - always worth a look

Excellent all round display by Charlton for the NT.


And a great compilation from @harms of Eusebio scoring a hattrick.


Same mechanics as last game with the addition of Savicevic whose trickery would give Junior headache on the flank.



MichaelF7 Tactics

My team will play a 4-2-3-1 formation. I think i will win this match due to moments of genius from Maradona and the goal-scoring ruthlessness of Gerd Muller. I will give information on the players who do not have their career peaks before lastly providing info on the 2 less well known players in my line up (N'kono and Chislenko).

Non Career Peaks

Berti Vogts (Monchengladbach) - Played his entire career at Monchengladbach so this is effectively a career peak

Ruben Dias (Manchester City) - Has been at Manchester City since signing in 2020 during which time he has made 175 appearances winning 3 premier leagues in 3 completed seasons (with potentially a 4th on the way) and the champions league in 2023. Individually he was the Football Writers Footballer of the Year in 2020/21 as well as being included in both the PFA and Champions League Team of the Season in both 20/21 and 22/23 winning the Champions League Defender of the Season in 2020/21 and was included in the FIFA FIFPRO World XI in both 2021 and 2023.

Tommy Gemmell (Celtic) - Gemmell spent 10 years at Celtic making 418 appearances. Gemmell made all of his 18 Scotland appearances while at Celtic and both of the times he received votes for the Ballon d'Or were while he was at Celtic including a 6th placed finish in 1967 where he was the highest placed defender (Beckenbauer was a midfielder at this time) including 1 1st placed vote.

Rainer Bonhof (Monchengladbach) - Spent 8 years at Monchengladbach between 1970 and 1978 during which time he was in kicker's Bundesliga team of the season 3 times (73/74, 76/77 and 77/78) as well as being in World Soccer's Overseas Editor Eric Batty's team of the year in 1975 and 1977. During this time frame with the national team Bonhof also won the World Cup in 1974 and was in the Euro 1976 Team of the Tournament as well as being in the World Cup Team of the Tournament chosen by sofascore for both 1974 and 1978 and by the Castrol Index for 1978.

Roy Keane (Manchester United) - Spent 12 years at Man Utd (1993 to 2005) being included in this time frame in the PFA Team of the Year 4 times (96/97, 99/00, 00/01 and 01/02) as well as being chosen by both the Football Writers and the PFA as the Footballer of the Year in 2000.

Dragan Dzajic (Red Star Belgrade) - Dzajic had 2 spells at Red Star Belgrade, the first of them 12 years (1963 to 1975) before returning for his last season (77/78). His 2 top 10 Ballon d'Or finishes (3rd in 1968, 6th in 1970) both occurred while at Red Star Belgrade as did his 2 inclusions in Eric Batty's World XI (1969 and 1973). During his Red Star timeframe, with the Yugoslav national team he was also both included in the Team of the Tournament and was the top goalscorer at the 1968 Euro's.

Gerd Muller (Bayern Munich) - Gerd Muller spent 15 seasons at Bayern Munich between 1964 and 1979 scoring 563 goals in 605 games during which time he made all of his international appearances and finished on the podium in the Ballon d'Or 4 times winning in 1970, finishing 2nd in 1972 and 3rd in both 1969 and 1973 (He finished tied for 6th in 1971). During this time he won the European Golden Shoe twice (69/70 and 71/72), finished European Cup top scorer 4 times (73, 74, 75 and 77) and Bundesliga Top Goalscorer 7 times (67, 69,70, 72, 73, 74, 78). Muller was included in Kicker's Bundesliga team of the season 4 times (68/69, 69/70, 71/72 and 72/73), Eric Batty's World XI 8 times (69, 71, 72, 73, 74, 76, 77, 78) and was chosen as the best player in the first 40 years of the Bundesliga.

Player Profiles

Thomas N'kono was African Footballer of the year twice (1979 and 1982) as well as being chosen in 2021 by the IFFHS in their All Time African XI. N'kono's performances at the 1990 World Cup inspired Gianluigi Buffon to play as a Goalkeeper.

Igor Chislenko was a Soviet RW who won 53 caps between 1959 and 1968. In the award for the Best 33 Football Players of the Season in the USSR where the best 3 players for each position were chosen by the National Coaches Council and confirmed by the Presidium of the Soviet Federation Chislenko finished 1st in his position in 1963, 1964, and 1966, finished 2nd in his position in 1960, 1961, 1962 and 1965 as well as finishing in the top 3 in 1967 (the top 3 were not ordered that year but he was the highest placed Soviet footballer in that year's Ballon d'Or finishing 9th). When they played against each other Chislenko generally got the better of Giacinto Facchetti who I consider one of the three best LB's ever. Chislenko's career effectively ended in June 1968 at the age of 29 when he injured his knee in an Olympic match against Czechoslovakia (link). Chislenko was described by legendary Soviet striker Vsevolod Bobrov (who also managed CSKA Moscow from 1967-69 and 1977-78) as follows:

He can be considered a model a modern winger. He does not limit his actions to the narrow area of the field, and often effectively shifts to the center, giving its movements are extraordinarily sharp. Chislenko is always actively fighting for the ball, when the opponent has it, turns into an additional midfielder, as it were. In short, he plays the way modern football requires of a winger
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Source

Former USSR manager Konstantin Beskov describes Chislenko as follows:

I noticed him back in the FShM. It was impossible not to Very talented, unconventional, inventive, quick and decisive
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Source

He was also described in a 1994 Futbol Weekly article by Oleg Kucherenko as follows:

We can safely say that Chislenko, as a player, was ahead of his time. Nominally he was considered the right wing of the attack, but he did not play strictly in his place, As was customary at that time, but operated along the entire front of the attack, retreating deep back to help the defense. Excellent dribbling, dribbling, enviable starting speed," took off like a breeze, a rare skill instantly Prepare the ball for the kick and the shot itself – sharp, strong and accurate, made its one of the most notable players in the world in the 60s.
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Source
 
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I feel both writeups focus on individual players and their quality. Enigma has included some information on the role they'd play, which I think Michael hasn't touched on. From a game management perspective, I'd like more details:

- what are the tactical instructions?
- how do both teams line up in the attacking phase?
- what is the defensive structure and how do you plan to win the ball back?
- how do you see the game going and how much of the ball would you expect?
- are there any tactical battles that you think might decide the game? Perhaps a fullback you'd like to isolate against a great winger or a CB you hope your striker can outpace.
 
Himannv said:
- what are the tactical instructions?
- how do both teams line up in the attacking phase?
- what is the defensive structure and how do you plan to win the ball back?
- how do you see the game going and how much of the ball would you expect?
- are there any tactical battles that you think might decide the game? Perhaps a fullback you'd like to isolate against a great winger or a CB you hope your striker can outpace.
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So to answer a bit on those and how I envision to enfold:

Beckenbauer / Maradona is a key battle I feel as Maradona is the opposition best player and the main conductor of the team. I feel young Beckenbauer similarly like against sir Bobby would cancel each other out or at least he would limit Diego influence in the middle of the pitch.

we do have also Sir Bobby himself and Robbo in that area in the defensive phase capable of taking over (mostly Robbo) if Maradona loses him.

I feel Gemmell/ Vogts js more reserved combo at the back so the opposition would try to stretch the pitch mainly thorough hos wingers and Krol and Zanetti are both tactically and as a fit good match for them whilst our midfield core would help out when the ball shift to that side of the pitch but in the same time when we lose the ball they have the industry to clutter the center and force the opposition into a mistake.

Forster will be marking personally Muller whilst Passarella will be in a more reserved role as a ball playing CB. Both are great foils for each other and there are not many better man markers than Forster who made a living out of that.

I feel Sir Bobby does have a pocket of space in the double pivot midfield that can possibly decide the game whilst also Eusebio would also attack the space between Gemmell and Dias.

Batistuta vs Figueroa is a fair battle between two greats but I feel we do have one to one advantage when we take into account Sir Bobby and Eusebio against the opposition zone.

in terms of opposition balance I don’t have much to criticise apart from the mentioned above that I’d prefer a more attacking full back at one of the sides so it makes it less predictable in terms of going forward and also Dzajic and Maradona I don’t think is a good fit which was mentioned in previous game as well.
 
I think this will be a cagey match up with few opportunities which I am more likely to edge for a few reasons. Firstly, Muller's ruthlessness of opportunity taking and scoring in big games; secondly Figueroa's ability to marshal a defense to limit good goalscoring opportunities (Chile vs West Germany at the 1974 World Cup is an example of this) and lastly is Dzajic who provides a 2nd option for getting Muller the chances he needs to be decisive in this match.
 
Leaning towards enigma as I think that Eusebio-Zanetti-Robson side will be too much for Gemmell and Dias. Also favor Beckenbauer in this match with Diego as the AM which means I can see some overloads creating problems as well. Figueroa-Vogts is a strong defense side but that Gemmell-Dias side just seems too weak for this stage.

Shame Enigma didn't land on one or two weaker squares though as his team has been probably the strongest top to bottom in each round where others like michaelf had to manage with some weaker picks.
 
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Enigma_87 said:
So to answer a bit on those and how I envision to enfold:

Beckenbauer / Maradona is a key battle I feel as Maradona is the opposition best player and the main conductor of the team. I feel young Beckenbauer similarly like against sir Bobby would cancel each other out or at least he would limit Diego influence in the middle of the pitch.

we do have also Sir Bobby himself and Robbo in that area in the defensive phase capable of taking over (mostly Robbo) if Maradona loses him.

I feel Gemmell/ Vogts js more reserved combo at the back so the opposition would try to stretch the pitch mainly thorough hos wingers and Krol and Zanetti are both tactically and as a fit good match for them whilst our midfield core would help out when the ball shift to that side of the pitch but in the same time when we lose the ball they have the industry to clutter the center and force the opposition into a mistake.

Forster will be marking personally Muller whilst Passarella will be in a more reserved role as a ball playing CB. Both are great foils for each other and there are not many better man markers than Forster who made a living out of that.

I feel Sir Bobby does have a pocket of space in the double pivot midfield that can possibly decide the game whilst also Eusebio would also attack the space between Gemmell and Dias.

Batistuta vs Figueroa is a fair battle between two greats but I feel we do have one to one advantage when we take into account Sir Bobby and Eusebio against the opposition zone.

in terms of opposition balance I don’t have much to criticise apart from the mentioned above that I’d prefer a more attacking full back at one of the sides so it makes it less predictable in terms of going forward and also Dzajic and Maradona I don’t think is a good fit which was mentioned in previous game as well.
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Agree with much of that, but Gemmell was absolutely an attacking FB.
 
Pat_Mustard said:
Agree with much of that, but Gemmell was absolutely an attacking FB.
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Maybe I didn’t put it better I meant a more modern attacking one that would constantly support the flank when in attack with refined technique and be able to combine with Dzajic as he also loved to tuck in.

I know he has a cannon of a shot and scored a boat load of penos, but he relied mostly on his big strides at least from my impression.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Maybe I didn’t put it better I meant a more modern attacking one that would constantly support the flank when in attack with refined technique and be able to combine with Dzajic as he also loved to tuck in.

I know he has a cannon of a shot and scored a boat load of penos, but he relied mostly on his big strides at least from my impression.
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Only seen a couple games of Gemmell but he played pretty much like a modern attacking fullback in those. It was actually a bit jarring seeing a 60s fullback crossing from the byline.
 
prolifik said:
Only seen a couple games of Gemmell but he played pretty much like a modern attacking fullback in those. It was actually a bit jarring seeing a 60s fullback crossing from the byline.
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Aye, he seemed well ahead of his time to me. I do see @Enigma_87 's point in preferring a more technical, cultured option to link up with Dzajic though, with Marcelo being the historical gold standard in that sense imo.

Muller was a fantastic upgrade for Michael, and a Figueroa/Keane/Maradona/Muller spine is phenomenal, but I think I'm going for Enigma here due to an overall advantage in quality. Strangely though, for all that Batistuta is clearly an upgrade, I think I preferred RVP there as a Eusebio foil.
 
Yeah, Enigma was starting from so high of a baseline that adding that extra quality in attack makes him hard to look past here.
 
prolifik said:
Only seen a couple games of Gemmell but he played pretty much like a modern attacking fullback in those. It was actually a bit jarring seeing a 60s fullback crossing from the byline.
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Aye. I’d say the flank flows nicely given Gemmell’s ability to overlap or underlap as well as his two-footedness and attacking instincts.
 
going with enigma, tactically both sides are more or less fine but he has more quality.
Dont rate dzajic as highly as others and dont really rate bonhof so the drop of compared to enigma side is a bit problematic.
 
To explain my vote: Michael's front four is perfect on the highest level, Maradona behind Müller, with two true wingers on the sides. Nearly unstoppable in my eyes, and it'll also work splendidly if Enigma's team dominates the game, which they well may. Although Eusebio vs Gemmell (who I don't see as a great individual defender, correct me if I'm wrong) looks potentially decisive for Enigma as well. Enigma has the upper hand in individual quality, but I wasn't 100% convinced by all of the synergies since R1, and this kind of remained.

(edit: Figueroa is a one-man argument for me as well, and the clash with Batistuta should be great.)
 
I prefer Michael's team.
 
I did prefer van Persie up front as I think he links up with other forwards better. And I would've swapped Eusebio and Savicević personally, especially with Charlton playing as an inside left.

Still, it's hard to look past Enigma's individual quality, so it's a close win for him in my book.
 
It's interesting seeing Chislenko and Dzajic in the same team as Dzajic because they're a great example of contemporaries where results at one important tournament (Euro 68) really seperated them in historic recognition/reputation. That was probably ussr's best chance to win another tournament from the 66 to 90 years, especially once Yugoslavia kicked out England. They usually matched up well against the other two, but the team from 67 ended up torn apart by injuries, suspensions and politically motivated bans just before the Italy game. One of those being Chislenko's career-ruining injury.
 
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