So now we’ve got VDB what’s our midfield

simplyared

Full Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Messages
4,401
Location
somewhere ouside the UK
For me he goes straight into the starting line-up. We’ve not brought him in to sit on the bench. Therefore I reckon we should play with a diamond as below:

DM Matic

RM VDB

LM Pogba

AM Bruno

That leaves a front 2 and I’d go for Greenwood and rotate Martial and Rashford.

Realize our formation depends on the opposition and we have to adapt to that and maybe change. However this would be my strongest set-up and the one we should start from

Any other ideas?
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
43,736
Location
Egypt
We don't have good attacking fullbacks to play the diamond.

IMO It'll be the same 4-2-3-1 and VDB will either be a squad option or we'll try him in Matic's position and see how he'll fare.
 

jderbyshire

Has anybody seen my fleshlight?
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
4,188
Well I think you might be on to something here, but someone will go "tHis fOrMaTiOn :mad: NeEdS aTtAcKiNg FuLlbAcKs WhiCh We DoN't HaVe!"

But... y'know, get Reguilon in. AWB is still young and improving the attacking side of his game.
 

Skills

Snitch
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
42,100
He'll play the games Pogba or Bruno don't play. Our best team is still the same
 

noodlehair

"It's like..."
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
16,385
Location
Flagg
For me he goes straight into the starting line-up. We’ve not brought him in to sit on the bench. Therefore I reckon we should play with a diamond as below:

DM Matic

RM VDB

LM Pogba

AM Bruno

That leaves a front 2 and I’d go for Greenwood and rotate Martial and Rashford.

Realize our formation depends on the opposition and we have to adapt to that and maybe change. However this would be my strongest set-up and the one we should start from

Any other ideas?
I actually don't mind that as an option on paper if it means getting the best out of Martail and Rashford, but I think having only two of them and Greenwood in the team is a bit of a waste. When you have forwards who'll get you close to or over 20 goals a season you have to find a way to use them....and all three are capable of getting more goals as well.

I don't see VDB as an automatic starter but he won't be a bench player either. I think he gives us the ability to not have a single go to starting 11 or system. We can pick a team and system to suit the opponent, the form of the players, and who is or isn't in need of a breather. For example when Rashford accidentally swaps brains with Walcott we can revert to something like above. When Fernandes has covered about 50km over the course of 3 games we can actually play VDB in his role for a bit before he starts looking like he's run a marathon 10 minutes into each game.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Messages
17,158
He'll slot in for Pogba or Bruno for rotation or play with them vs the minnows.

I hate the diamond midfield with our personnel. I wouldn't leave out Greenwood just to play VDB personally.
 

simplyared

Full Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Messages
4,401
Location
somewhere ouside the UK
Our RB is bobbins when he gets over the half way line. Shaw has improved a lot and if he stays fit he's as good as anybody going forward. I'd switch Williams to RB as I believe he's a better option than AWB. Certainly attacking and he's only going to get better. So I reckon if we did that the diamond could work.
 

charlenefan

Far less insightful than the other Charley
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
33,052
For me he goes straight into the starting line-up. We’ve not brought him in to sit on the bench. Therefore I reckon we should play with a diamond as below:

DM Matic

RM VDB

LM Pogba

AM Bruno

That leaves a front 2 and I’d go for Greenwood and rotate Martial and Rashford.

Realize our formation depends on the opposition and we have to adapt to that and maybe change. However this would be my strongest set-up and the one we should start from

Any other ideas?
433 with VDB on the bench

We've bought him to strengthen the squad, we're no better off if we shoehorn him into the starting XI still leaving ourselves with the likes of Mata, Andreas and Lingard as the creative reinforcements from the bench
 

Chief123

Full Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
12,787
For me he goes straight into the starting line-up. We’ve not brought him in to sit on the bench. Therefore I reckon we should play with a diamond as below:

DM Matic

RM VDB

LM Pogba

AM Bruno

That leaves a front 2 and I’d go for Greenwood and rotate Martial and Rashford.

Realize our formation depends on the opposition and we have to adapt to that and maybe change. However this would be my strongest set-up and the one we should start from

Any other ideas?
The lineup will not change. He will come in and be rotated with Bruno/pogba. He will not be shoehorned into the side.

Just think of the minutes Lingard, Pereira and mata got last year. Basically those minutes will go to VDB.
 

Chief123

Full Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
12,787
For those who are in love with the idea of us playing a diamond formation.....which top team in Europe plays a diamond system?
 

Spaghetti

Mom's
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
1,463
Location
Barcelona
VDB won’t be first team. Hopefully he’ll be the talented option from the bench / squad rotation that we’ve been crying out for. Hopefully last night wasn’t the real VDB!
 

nainaisson

Full Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2016
Messages
1,511
Location
Phantom Zone
VDB won’t be first team. Hopefully he’ll be the talented option from the bench / squad rotation that we’ve been crying out for. Hopefully last night wasn’t the real VDB!
Bergwign came on for him and did even less.

I don't get judging a player based on these useless games when every team has looked terrible, with the exception of Portugal.
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
27,208
Location
...
For me he goes straight into the starting line-up. We’ve not brought him in to sit on the bench. Therefore I reckon we should play with a diamond as below:

DM Matic

RM VDB

LM Pogba

AM Bruno

That leaves a front 2 and I’d go for Greenwood and rotate Martial and Rashford.

Realize our formation depends on the opposition and we have to adapt to that and maybe change. However this would be my strongest set-up and the one we should start from

Any other ideas?
We have bought him to sit on the bench and he does not go straight into the starting lineup.
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
27,208
Location
...
The lineup will not change. He will come in and be rotated with Bruno/pogba. He will not be shoehorned into the side.

Just think of the minutes Lingard, Pereira and mata got last year. Basically those minutes will go to VDB.
Those minutes will go to Pogba.
 

eltigreFalcao

Full Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Messages
460
Location
Buenos Aires
To be honest I want to see Donny in the starting XI but is hard to tell. The guy is very capable and has lots of talent and potential, he can boss any midfield position any given time. Unfortunately our current system is weird in a sense regarding midfield. We rely in a position that at the moment is occupied by Matic, but he is not the best around in it and we actually dont seem to find a suitable player that can challenge or take over from him. Can VdB be that player? for me, sure, he can, but going by the comments is not what Ole's planning.

Regarding the diamond formation I don't feel is crazy, it could work despite it not being very common among top sides in Europe and PL. But lets not be naive and avoid the question, who is going to occupy the lateral attacking positions? if it were to be more of a 4-1-3-2 formation where Pogba and VdB span to a more lateral position it makes quite sense. Pogba was great on the left side of midfield for Juve, we all know that, and VdB is a player that can attack very well and also chase back and cover. We don't know if the fullback's attacking input will actually improve this coming season, but is hard to expect that, given the skillset of our current crop. But then that will not be a 'diamond' but more of a T shaped midfield. Not against that at all. On a side note, that could also be a good position for James, if he has any role to play in the coming season; also even Pereira if Ole dares to play him at all.

But, as someone said before, we have 3 forwards that can and will score a lot of goals, at least thats what they are there for and we know they are capable of, would you sit down any of them? since we are short of cover up front I will, and since we surely cannot play the same game of not rotating a single player for many games, and not introducing subs early because of lack of confidence in the squad players, we can manage to rotate them thre very well providing the oportunity for them to play 30ish games each and even more throughout the season. Then you have Ighalo, pure cover just when needed and that's it.

Finally if we were to land Sancho or whichever RW that can compete for a starting XI berth, then that's a whole different situation. My favorite formation would be 4-3-3 because it gives me a bigger sense of balance, and we could avoid overelying on Bruno on attacking stages and get more out of Pogba. That'll mean that VdB would either be nurtured into the DM position or definitely rotate with either Bruno or Pogba and that'll mean either way that he'll see a lot of bench time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 12OunceEpilogue

Bwuk

Full Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
17,382
I think it’s more likely that VdB plays at 10 and Bruno at 8 than the other way around.

Id imagine we’ll play 433 with Pogba, Bruno & Matic as our starting 3.
 

He'sRaldo

Full Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
3,203
2 times now we've needed to buy a new DM and we've bought an attacking midfielder instead.

No idea what the plan is regarding squad building, but it looks like we'll be heavily relying on Matic again this season.
 

Santoryo

ripping the reward
Joined
Apr 10, 2014
Messages
6,302
I think he'll start on the bench. Ole will probably go with Fred, Pogba and Bruno in midfield at the start of the season, or Matic instead of Fred but I don't see VDB straight into the line up. I also think Ole sees him as an 8 or 10, so I don't see him starting while Bruno is available at the start of the season.

We play 2 games a week almost every week, including CL games, so he'll start plenty of games.
 

Santoryo

ripping the reward
Joined
Apr 10, 2014
Messages
6,302
2 times now we've needed to buy a new DM and we've bought an attacking midfielder instead.

No idea what the plan is regarding squad building, but it looks like we'll be heavily relying on Matic again this season.
That's because for some reasons people(including you in this case) think the only way to play football is with a DM, something Ole clearly doesn't see that way. He has never shown any urgency nor need, heck even interest in buying a DM, that should tell people by now that he doesn't see his team needing one.

Playing with a DM isn't the only way to play football. Ole could play with an energetic ball winner like Fred instead of a pure DM. People have set their mind a certain way and think/want to play with a pure classical DM profile player when that's not the only way to play the game currently.

For me he goes straight into the starting line-up. We’ve not brought him in to sit on the bench. Therefore I reckon we should play with a diamond as below:

DM Matic

RM VDB

LM Pogba

AM Bruno

That leaves a front 2 and I’d go for Greenwood and rotate Martial and Rashford.

Realize our formation depends on the opposition and we have to adapt to that and maybe change. However this would be my strongest set-up and the one we should start from

Any other ideas?
What. Why would Ole and his coaching stuff sacrifice one attacker to accommodate VDB? I mean that would be weakening ourselves for absolutely no reason. It's not like we're trying to accommodate some world class player or anything. VDB is a decent player and will add to the squad. For now he's surely a squad player would will get plenty of game time and starts during this long season with most weeks having 2 games.
 

He'sRaldo

Full Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
3,203
That's because for some reasons people(including you in this case) think the only way to play football is with a DM, something Ole clearly doesn't see that way. He has never shown any urgency nor need, heck even interest in buying a DM, that should tell people by now that he doesn't see his team needing one.

Playing with a DM isn't the only way to play football. Ole could play with an energetic ball winner like Fred instead of a pure DM. People have set their mind a certain way and think/want to play with a pure classical DM profile player when that's not the only way to play the game currently.
I consider an energetic ball winner to be a kind of DM.

Regardless, maybe you're right that we don't need one, but I doubt it. Proof will be in the pudding this season.
 

Web of Bissaka

Full Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
8,553
Location
Losing to Comeback Winning!
Love the diamond system, no chance it's happening.

The closest to that is putting Bruno as false RW (let's say when we're benching Greenwood or he's out injured). Similar to Mata and Lingard role anyway, won't be much difference. They're just going to move centrally to midfield, barely at the right wing.

Matic
VdB --- Pogba
Bruno --- Martial --- Rashford
Our midfield is going to be as usual Pogba at dual CDM roles and now-his-partner is VdB. Ole doesn't mind dropping Matic, he's not a must-always play player. Pogba and Bruno are.

VdB --- Pogba
Bruno
Nothing new.
 

AltiUn

likes playing with swords after fantasies
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
23,664
  1. Buy a quality depth addition so Pogba and Fernandes don't have to play 60 games a season
  2. Immediately find a formation that means VdB alongside Pogba and Fernandes have to play 60 games a season
  3. Profit ... ?
 

UNITED ACADEMY

New Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
13,127
Supports
Erik ten Hag
To me it has to be the same midfield as the Sevilla game:

Pogba - Fred
----- Bruno----

Matic & Scott will play depends who the opposition is while Donny will be brought on as a sub to make impact or even start when we switch formation against certain opposition.
 

KennyBurner

New Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
4,673
Location
ATL
For me he goes straight into the starting line-up. We’ve not brought him in to sit on the bench. Therefore I reckon we should play with a diamond as below:

DM Matic

RM VDB

LM Pogba

AM Bruno

That leaves a front 2 and I’d go for Greenwood and rotate Martial and Rashford.

Realize our formation depends on the opposition and we have to adapt to that and maybe change. However this would be my strongest set-up and the one we should start from

Any other ideas?
Quite simply the worst formation and personnel you could imagine. Also dont know how you got this information that he goes straight into the starting lineup? when all our players are fit and ready he will come off the bench.

If we buy no one else we will our starting 11 remains the same as last season.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
12,559
For those who are in love with the idea of us playing a diamond formation.....which top team in Europe plays a diamond system?
None, because it is a flawed system. Unless it is coached really really well, it can get you a result in 2/3 games a season but it will not be a formation that wins you a league.

Strikers defensively become wingers tracking the full backs, so alot of time spent chasing back.

The midfield becomes completely unbalanced when the LCM and RCM get dragged because there is no one to mark.

Basically this system needs some hard discipline which is not what you will get with Bruno and Pogba.
 

BazzaBear

Definately Banned
Joined
Jul 23, 2004
Messages
3,387
Is it absolutely necessary to play a DM if we can instead pull out AMs deeper? There shouldn't be any need for Bruno to play as high up as he does if we have three good, mobile, attackers filling that space.
With three midfielders actually occupying midfield, instead on 1 in midfield, 1 dropping to directly between our CBs and one playing as high up as our attackers, can we play VDB, Bruno, and Pogba together as a three?
 

Chief123

Full Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
12,787
None, because it is a flawed system. Unless it is coached really really well, it can get you a result in 2/3 games a season but it will not be a formation that wins you a league.

Strikers defensively become wingers tracking the full backs, so alot of time spent chasing back.

The midfield becomes completely unbalanced when the LCM and RCM get dragged because there is no one to mark.

Basically this system needs some hard discipline which is not what you will get with Bruno and Pogba.
Exactly. I just don’t think it’s a sustainable system for any top team to achieve anything with a diamond system.

Utd have never played a diamond system as our template formation. It’s not going to change with the arrival of VDB.

When we signed Veron and already had Keane and Scholes, we never changed our system. We rotated regularly. Veron ultimately didn’t work out but the idea was to strengthen our options.
 

Chesterlestreet

Man of the crowd
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
19,546
...can we play VDB, Bruno, and Pogba together as a three?
Possibly - at least against weaker opposition.

In a 4-2-3-1 of the kind Ole favours, though, one of the designated "2" will have to drop down/play like an actual defensive midfielder in certain "phases".

Matic can do that. He's the only one who undoubtedly can. Fred and McTominay both have question marks over their heads.

VDB seems clever/hard working/versatile - but whether he can actually do a proper (enough) job as an actual DM remains to be seen.

Also: there's not much to indicate that Ole has any intention to go for a diamond (and definitely not as his default formation).
 

Inter Yer Nan

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2016
Messages
6,380
Location
Los Angeles, CA (from UK)
He’ll be rotated a lot I think. Pogba usually missed at least 10 league games a season, say Fernandes gets to sit for 5 and then there’s going to be the odd game where we put all three in.
 

RkkMan

Full Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
2,179
Anyone that thinks we`ll use a diamond with our fullbacks needs their heads checked. The one time Ole used a diamond vs Everton we looked so out of place. Its a system that needs very specific players and high level of discipline which doesn`t suit our players who prefer to play with a bit more freedom and Ole`s system also revolves heavily around players expressing themselves on the pitch. Our pursuit of Sancho(hoping it bears fruit) is an indication this isn`t on Ole`s plans so VDB is either going to be cover for Pogba/Bruno or we could play all 3 together but defo not a diamond
 

Bestietom

Full Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
8,021
Location
Ireland
It's going to be surprising to see how he uses VDB, but I would expect he will rotate with Pogba and Bruno. He is not a DM for sure.