Spending loads of money on Bundesliga players

[Pogue Mahone]

It’s just a bad idea, isn’t it?

Havertz
Pulisic
Werner
Sancho

I mean, they might all come good.

But…
Kagawa
Mkhitaryan
…didn’t.

Any obvious success stories I’m forgetting?

 

[Stacks]

It’s just a bad idea, isn’t it?

Havertz
Pulisic
Werner
Sancho

I mean, they might all come good.

But…
Kagawa
Mkhitaryan
…didn’t.

Any obvious success stories I’m forgetting?

List will keep being UPDATED - players on the list either cost a lot for their respective clubs or had a reputation. Not all cost a lot of money per se

Success
Sane
Firmino
Son
BERBATOV
Gundogan
De Bruyne
Auba
Matip
Leon
Dzeko
Ballack (although nowhere near his Leverkusen)
Kompany
De Jong

Disappointment
Schurle
Boateng
Mertesacker
Keita
Haller (went from 1 in 2 in Germany to 1 in FIVE in EPL)
Queen Elizabeth of house Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
Voronin
Bastian
Sahin
Karius
Xhaka
Sokratis

it seems its a hit and miss mostly

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Son, KDB, Auba, Gundogan, Fimino.... Awful!

 

[Zoo]

I think Kagawa could have come good if SAF had stuck around a bit longer.

 

[Skills]

We should definitely avoid that Erling Haaland

 

[Utd heap]

Short term memories in the OP here I think. It's been a mixed bag in general as I'd assume most punts are - but plenty of top players.

 

[Sky1981]

It's amazing how those scouts can get this wrong, most of the names mentioned aren't some unknown quantity. Players like Mkhi, Schurle etc are known quantity teams should have got their strenght and weaknesses down to a tee.

 

[united_99]

Kagawa’s first season with us was actually decent. Nothing special but considering he changed club and league it was alright. But we were also a functional team back then (despite our weaknesses) so it was easier to settle in.

 

[Ayoba]

I think the conclusion we can draw is that if you spend around the 20m mark, you will get a decent return. 50 is also OK, can get you a KDB once in a while, anything north of that is a disaster.

 

[SilentStrike]

List will keep being UPDATED - players on the list either cost a lot for their respective clubs or had a reputation. Not all cost a lot of money per se

Success
Sane
Firmino
Son
BERBATOV
Gundogan
De Bruyne

Disappointment
Schurlle
Podolski
Boateng
Mertesacker
Dzeko
Keita
Mustafi
Haller (went from 1 in 2 in Germany to 1 in FIVE in EPL)
Queen Elizabeth of house Saxe-Coburg-Gotha

it seems its a risk but hit and miss mostly

Mustafi came from Spain

Also Aubameyang had no problem scoring goals when he just came

And Boateng came as a young, decent talent. He was not an expensive signing at all.

Podolski did pretty much what was expected right? He was okay in Germany and okay in England.

 

[Rozay]

Without even bothering with any sort of forensic analysis, I can confidently say that it is of course, nonsense, that a player is more likely to fail because of the country he played football in previously. Just on the basis that footballers are all different human beings and ultimately, if a player has the tools to succeed, he will do. And if he has them, he will have them regardless of whether he lived in Frankfurt for 2.5 years or not.

Players have succeeded in the PL having come from Norway, Australia, Holland, Russia, USA, Scotland and almost every other country. Regularly. There’s nothing about Germany in and of itself, scouts need to be thorough but Germany is a good enough level of football to assess a player’s qualities.

 

[Stacks]

Mustafi came from Spain

Also Aubameyang had no problem scoring goals when he just came

And Boateng came as a young, decent talent. He was not an expensive signing at all.

Podolski did pretty much what was expected right? He was okay in Germany and okay in England.

I'll update the list and take off mustafi. Podolski was about par for course yeah. I always felt Boateng couldnt hack it and was surprised he went on to win the CL. when he was linked back to a move to england I was surprised as my memories of him were not fond

 

[Blackwidow]

Maybe the decision making about different professionals from the Bundesliga was bad? Just because a player does function in a special system in the Bundesliga does not mean he functions in another system in the EPL? The Bundesliga in general is more about team play than in the UK. And a lot of players aren't consistent over their career - no matter if they stay in a league or play for various team or just one. . That players have high numbers all over their career actually is even not normal and only a few of the professionals really put out high numbers on every stage of their career.

We have discussed that e.g. about Timo Werner. He is a special type of forward that does not have the biggest mentality and that lives of his speed. He did not change at all from the time in Leipzig to the time for Chelsea - he just plays in a different system were other strength would have been needed.

The Dortmund players that transferred usually were offensive players without the biggest individual qualities (body strength, speed, dribbling) who lived of a system in which a lot of the positioning and running followed a special pattern. They transferred in a system in which that was not the case.

Gündogan actually excelled even before the time he went to Dortmund when he was a young player in Nürnberg. KdB was great for Bremen before he went to Wolfsburg. Son was great in Hamburg and in Leverkusen. They weren't just great at one place or in one system but showed their qualities even in other systems with other coaches.

Of the players that went to the UK I actually as a Bayern fan would have like to have only Gündogan (I like him since Nürnberg), KdB and Sane. That they went to City and succeeded there might be a sign that Pep knew what he does as he knew the Bundesliga and watched the players before a lot.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

@Pogue Mahone

Did you mean to specify Dortmund (Or Ajax to a lesser extent) or rather teams that play a specific system and therefore enhance some players abilities in that system (Kagawa) so that when they are taken out of it, they don't look the same player

 

[bond19821982]

Matip is a success, leno hasn't done bad

 

[Stacks]

think its clear BERBATOV was the best from the imports from Germany

 

[Stacks]

Matip is a success, leno hasn't done bad

adding them in.

 

[Wolf1992]

Dzeko wasn't a disappointment, he did well for City and won two PL trophies.

There are Bundesliga players that have done well in PL, De Bruyne,Firminho,Gundogan, Rudiger,Son, Matip, etc

 

[KingCavani]

List will keep being UPDATED - players on the list either cost a lot for their respective clubs or had a reputation. Not all cost a lot of money per se

Success
Sane
Firmino
Son
BERBATOV
Gundogan
De Bruyne
Auba
Matip
Leon

Disappointment
Schurlle
Boateng
Mertesacker
Dzeko
Keita
Haller (went from 1 in 2 in Germany to 1 in FIVE in EPL)
Queen Elizabeth of house Saxe-Coburg-Gotha

it seems its a risk but hit and miss mostly

Dzeko wasn't bad at all.

 

[Stacks]

@Pogue Mahone

Did you mean to specify Dortmund (Or Ajax to a lesser extent) or rather teams that play a specific system and therefore enhance some players abilities in that system (Kagawa) so that when they are taken out of it, they don't look the same player

from memory people in the cafe usually said don't buy from Dortmund. Who is that Turkish guy Liverpool signed on loan?

 

[Wolf1992]

think its clear BERBATOV was the best from the imports from Germany

Not really, De Bruyne has clearly been better than Berbatov.

De Bruyne is by far the best Bundesliga player that arrived in PL in the 2010 decade, based on performances.
Schweinsteiger is a better player, but he was old when he moved to United, so i'm not counting him.

 

[kaiser1]

Without even bothering with any sort of forensic analysis, I can confidently say that it is of course, nonsense, that a player is more likely to fail because of the country he played football in previously. Just on the basis that footballers are all different human beings and ultimately, if a player has the tools to succeed, he will do. And if he has them, he will have them regardless of whether he lived in Frankfurt for 2.5 years or not.

Players have succeeded in the PL having come from Norway, Australia, Holland, Russia, USA, Scotland and almost every other country. Regularly. There’s nothing about Germany in and of itself, scouts need to be thorough but Germany is a good enough level of football to assess a player’s qualities.

This is using too much logic when you can just go with the agenda package

We can gather a list of players successful in EPL but failed elsewhere

- Coutinho
- Hazard
- Emmanuel Dennis
- Hleb
- Alex Song

 

[Pogue Mahone]

@Pogue Mahone

Did you mean to specify Dortmund (Or Ajax to a lesser extent) or rather teams that play a specific system and therefore enhance some players abilities in that system (Kagawa) so that when they are taken out of it, they don't look the same player

As you may have noticed, I didn’t put that much thought into it. Or much thought at all!

Solid observation though. Maybe it’s Dortmund players who don’t travel well?

Although Lewo and Auba are arguably proof that you can’t go too wrong signing their strikers.

 

[Stacks]

Dzeko wasn't a disappointment, he did well for City and won two PL trophies.

There are Bundesliga players that have done well in PL, De Bruyne,Firminho,Gundogan, Rudiger,Son, Matip, etc

Dzeko wasn't bad at all.

moved him up. Also Rudiger came from Rome and was a bit meh until the german manager came

 

[Gandalf]

I think it is a step up in the PL but particularly if you sign young players then they ought to adapt in time given the right environment. I don't consider any of the three Chelsea lads a flop at this point, they play a weird system which does not cater to their individual strengths but Pulisic in particular looks like class and I believe will have a very good career. Specifically with Sancho he has had a poor start but the mitigating factors are plentiful from joining a club that was about to fly off the rails, the negative end to the Euros, being sick during pre season limiting his time to blend with the squad and a coaching staff that did not seem to have a concrete plan of how to use him. I think too the level of expectation can be an issue, when he went to Dortmund he was an academy player bought as a punt because of potential and so he really did not have any pressure to deal with, coming to us he was a big money signing who we had chased for more than a year and anything less than a spectacular start would have been viewed as a failure. I still see plenty of ability and believe he will come good once he gets through this difficult patch.

RR made another good observation too which was the level of competition throughout the PL. I can't say I have seen enough of the Bundesliga to say he is right but he openly stated that the bottom half sides in Germany are basically walkovers for the top clubs and that is not the case here. I think when scouting players from Germany it might make sense to focus on their performances and stats against top 6 clubs and filter out the stat padding performances against relegation sides.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

This is using too much logic when you can just go with the agenda package

We can gather a list of players successful in EPL but failed elsewhere

- Coutinho
- Hazard
- Emmanuel Dennis
- Hleb
- Alex Song

That’s a very short list, covering a very long period of time.

 

[Utd heap]

As you may have noticed, I didn’t put that much thought into it. Or much thought at all!

Wrong - you have been outed as having a direct agenda against Germany and everything it stands for.

 

[marktan]

It's not necessarily the league per se, good players are good players everywhere.

I would however be wary of purchasing players from Bayern and Dortmund, because they score a ridiculous amount compared to the average PL team, to the point where every 17 year old attacker that comes in like Gio Reyna looks amazing. It's similar to say Fulham this season in the Championship - you'd look at Mitrovic's goal figures and think he's the next Suarez, but goals in isolation doesn't even tell half the story.

Also it's just shoddy scouting too toa tbine who's looked at Sancho could see his slow acceleration and his struggles to beat men from a standing start. Whereas if you scouted Sane or Son, you'd see their pace. Our scouting in general has been very poor post-SAF.

 

[Boavista]

List will keep being UPDATED - players on the list either cost a lot for their respective clubs or had a reputation. Not all cost a lot of money per se

Success
Sane
Firmino
Son
BERBATOV
Gundogan
De Bruyne
Auba
Matip
Leon
Dzeko

Disappointment
Schurlle
Boateng
Mertesacker
Keita
Haller (went from 1 in 2 in Germany to 1 in FIVE in EPL)
Queen Elizabeth of house Saxe-Coburg-Gotha

it seems its a risk but hit and miss mostly

Bit harsh to call Mertesacker a disappointment. He was first choice for Arsenal for a long time, and even went on to become their captain.

 

[kaiser1]

That’s a very short list, covering a very long period of time.

Alex Song and Kagawa moved in the same summer

 

[Wolf1992]

This is using too much logic when you can just go with the agenda package

We can gather a list of players successful in EPL but failed elsewhere

- Coutinho
- Hazard
- Emmanuel Dennis
- Hleb
- Alex Song

Hazard did great in Ligue 1, won the title with Lille and was chosen MVP of the league.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Alex Song and Kagawa moved in the same summer

Hleb was the real blast from the past.

 

[Deery]

It’s weird some of them are probably sound technically and even good performers at national level but throw them into they premier league the flop hard.

 

[Lay]

I want to believe that Kagawa would have come good in the end, but I also look at his career afterwards and think probably not.

 

[Stacks]

Without even bothering with any sort of forensic analysis, I can confidently say that it is of course, nonsense, that a player is more likely to fail because of the country he played football in previously. Just on the basis that footballers are all different human beings and ultimately, if a player has the tools to succeed, he will do. And if he has them, he will have them regardless of whether he lived in Frankfurt for 2.5 years or not.

Players have succeeded in the PL having come from Norway, Australia, Holland, Russia, USA, Scotland and almost every other country. Regularly. There’s nothing about Germany in and of itself, scouts need to be thorough but Germany is a good enough level of football to assess a player’s qualities.

I noticed this with players signed from Portugal. It seems a weaker league than France and Italy but some sick players have come from there and they slot in well over here.

 

[do.ob]

What's the point of listing United players, when basically every signing flops? It always amazes me that people think everything is about fecking leagues, as opposed to say how well a club is run, how well the team is coached and how well a certain player fits into it.

 

[Blackwidow]

RR made another good observation too which was the level of competition throughout the PL. I can't say I have seen enough of the Bundesliga to say he is right but he openly stated that the bottom half sides in Germany are basically walkovers for the top clubs and that is not the case here. I think when scouting players from Germany it might make sense to focus on their performances and stats against top 6 clubs and filter out the stat padding performances against relegation sides.

I actually think the opposite - especially this season. That is why some of the clubs that usually are in the top third are badly struggling.

 

[Deery]

What's the point of listing United players, when basically every signing flops? It always amazes me that people think everything is about fecking leagues, as opposed to say how well a club is run, how well the team is coached and how well a certain player fits into it.

He listed Chelsea players too.

 

[Gandalf]

I actually think the opposite - especially this season. That is why some of the clubs that usually are in the top third are badly struggling.

You might be right. RR said something in either a pre or post match conference about being surprised at the level of the bottom clubs here and how it is not the same in Germany but in saying that he has not been a manager in the Bundesliga in recent seasons so may be comparing to an earlier era that no longer applies.

 

[do.ob]

You might be right. RR said something in either a pre or post match conference about being surprised at the level of the bottom clubs here and how it is not the same in Germany but in saying that he has not been a manager in the Bundesliga in recent seasons so may be comparing to an earlier era that no longer applies.

He's doing the same thing as Werner did, when he fecked up after his move: drop some crumbs of English exceptionalism, for the media to lap up, so they don't start to question him quite yet. Works every time.