This thread is really pertaining to Manchester United as the Champions League provides anecdotal evidence of what should be obvious to everyone, but gets selectively put to the side to suit a person's narrative going into the topic of big games and crunch ties between top sides. It's also how players like Pogba, and to a lesser extent, Bruno and Rashford, get scapegoated at times.
Bayern lost to PSG last night in a game that, I think is obvious would have been wholly different with their 1st xi fully fit. The team they put out last night was, by most measures in football, stacked and star-studded in its own right, but, without arguably the best striker in the world up top, their attack was seriously and measurably hampered. This should be a 'no shit!' moment given Lewandowski is a force in his own right, but with just him out, in a star-studded xi, the potency of the whole team nosedived.
When people look to denigrate someone like Pele, they often point toward him being just one of many, many stars in those Brazilian line-ups - it's always seen as an easy swipe to take at him that is supposed to render discussion blunted. The question of whether that extra star, in a myriad of stars is not what makes the entire unit unplayable not considered. It's fair to say Messi has had boatloads of criticism for his performances without other par (in their respective positions) stars with questions constantly asked of why *he* alone couldn't carry the team without a: Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar or peak Saurez alongside him.
I think the Champions League brings home just what it takes to be there or thereabouts the best teams in the world on a seasonal basis - if teams like PSG need all 3 of Di Maria, Neymar and Mbappe in fine fettle backed by some sterling performers at the back and what looks like a superstar in the making for the twighlight of his career in Gueye in the middle playing like a man possessed and making the outfield play as seamless and superfluous in defensive to offensive transitions as we saw, or Bayern needing their best team on its best form to match that; or Messi needing an armada behind him to play his best competitive (as in tie-winning) football, it can never sound right to give the very few stars Manchester United have stick when they're not supplemented with players in a comparable class. What the Champions League is telling us is, you need a: Pogba on his best form next to a Bruno on his best form next to another 3-4 players of comparable quality in their own respective positions, to be able to stand toe-to-toe with whoever you might face in the latter stages of the competition.
Of the remaining teams, only City have an interchangeable squad, and even then, when we say 'interchangeable', when push comes to shove, they too have a best xi and very few subs Pep will put on when the pressure is really on.
Coaching obviously plays its hand and goes hand-in-hand with these top sides delivering top class performances, but can anyone deny that without the base materials, you're essentially hanging on for dear life trying to knick a game and not able to play a proper, open game in your preferred style? For United in particular: is it not time to stop playing down the need for equivalent level talent across the pitch instead of relying on a fettered few who are more than likely about to be matched to an opposing talent of similar level to them, who, in his own right, is a handful for 90 minutes?
TL;DR: Is star power actually underrated these days? If you're not simply hanging on for dear life trying to knick a win, do you need a star-studded side to compete at the latter stages of the CL?
Bayern lost to PSG last night in a game that, I think is obvious would have been wholly different with their 1st xi fully fit. The team they put out last night was, by most measures in football, stacked and star-studded in its own right, but, without arguably the best striker in the world up top, their attack was seriously and measurably hampered. This should be a 'no shit!' moment given Lewandowski is a force in his own right, but with just him out, in a star-studded xi, the potency of the whole team nosedived.
When people look to denigrate someone like Pele, they often point toward him being just one of many, many stars in those Brazilian line-ups - it's always seen as an easy swipe to take at him that is supposed to render discussion blunted. The question of whether that extra star, in a myriad of stars is not what makes the entire unit unplayable not considered. It's fair to say Messi has had boatloads of criticism for his performances without other par (in their respective positions) stars with questions constantly asked of why *he* alone couldn't carry the team without a: Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar or peak Saurez alongside him.
I think the Champions League brings home just what it takes to be there or thereabouts the best teams in the world on a seasonal basis - if teams like PSG need all 3 of Di Maria, Neymar and Mbappe in fine fettle backed by some sterling performers at the back and what looks like a superstar in the making for the twighlight of his career in Gueye in the middle playing like a man possessed and making the outfield play as seamless and superfluous in defensive to offensive transitions as we saw, or Bayern needing their best team on its best form to match that; or Messi needing an armada behind him to play his best competitive (as in tie-winning) football, it can never sound right to give the very few stars Manchester United have stick when they're not supplemented with players in a comparable class. What the Champions League is telling us is, you need a: Pogba on his best form next to a Bruno on his best form next to another 3-4 players of comparable quality in their own respective positions, to be able to stand toe-to-toe with whoever you might face in the latter stages of the competition.
Of the remaining teams, only City have an interchangeable squad, and even then, when we say 'interchangeable', when push comes to shove, they too have a best xi and very few subs Pep will put on when the pressure is really on.
Coaching obviously plays its hand and goes hand-in-hand with these top sides delivering top class performances, but can anyone deny that without the base materials, you're essentially hanging on for dear life trying to knick a game and not able to play a proper, open game in your preferred style? For United in particular: is it not time to stop playing down the need for equivalent level talent across the pitch instead of relying on a fettered few who are more than likely about to be matched to an opposing talent of similar level to them, who, in his own right, is a handful for 90 minutes?
TL;DR: Is star power actually underrated these days? If you're not simply hanging on for dear life trying to knick a win, do you need a star-studded side to compete at the latter stages of the CL?