Stepping off the gas

[cyberman]

It's not like we comfortably saw out those leads though. We were incredibly close to conceding near the end today.

Plus it happened a lot last season too. It's like we never learn.

We're vastly improved from last year.
We're not having a freak season Like City, where do we get the right to complain that we're Winning competitive matches?
It's very rare that sides go through long runs in seasons when they're never in danger of looking like dropping points. Shouldn't these games be counted towards test of character as we do when City etc grind them out?

 

[sincher]

Very poor second half and lucky to win. Noone looked even vaguely interested in troubling them or even showing enough basic urgency to keep the ball.

 

[Minimalist]

Think it's certainly problematic when only 2-3 players in the squad have what you would describe as a top level passing (Pogba and then Matic and Mata to lesser extents).

Sitting back you need a bit of composure and consistent good passing/touches. United don't really have many of those players - it's all more about impact and speed these days.

 

[Son Of Sam]

We don't really step off the gas. Case in point, our 4 goal wins earlier this season.

Thank you!
We have several lazy players in the team and once the opposition fans rank up the pressure a bit, the mentally lazy players lose their balls and they start hoofing it.

Counter attacking football works a treat in the last 10 mins if the players keep composure and string few passes together. 3 good passes and you are already in the final third of the opponents with fewer defenders to contend with.

 

[Lennon7]

We don't really step off the gas. Case in point, our 4 goal wins earlier this season.

We have a handful of times this season though, Raoul. We’ve done well to hold out against Watford, Bournemouth and now West Brom, although we shouldn’t really be putting ourselves in those positions.

 

[Raoul]

We have a handful of times this season though, Raoul. We’ve done well to hold out against Watford, Bournemouth and now West Brom, although we shouldn’t really be putting ourselves in those positions.

We're not perfect - nor are City for that matter. They recently had a few very close fixtures where they stepped off the gas and had to get bailed out by late goals by the likes of Sterling. It happens to everyone from time to time and is not worth deep psycho-analysis.

 

[matherto]

To conserve efforts for the upcoming congested period. SAF knew this better than anyone.

The problem wasn't in that at all. The problem is our serious lack of composure when we're put under any pressure.

Except that we've been doing it since the start of the season and we did it in almost every game over the last few years of SAF so it's not a tactic.

We stop pressing, we drop off and we invite them hitting long balls.

Stop making excuses for our lack of intensity.

 

[RedDevilForLife10]

I seriously don’t know why we keep doing this, we have the players to keep attacking but start backing off.

Against west brom too for fecks sake, haven’t scored a PL goal in how long? They have 0 attacking quality but ended up looking like Barcelona in the last 15 mins.

It’s gotta be something Mourinho tells them, but I can’t put my finger on why

 

[el3mel]

Except that we've been doing it since the start of the season and we did it in almost every game over the last few years of SAF so it's not a tactic.

We stop pressing, we drop off and we invite them hitting long balls.

Stop making excuses for our lack of intensity.

We can't keep doing this for years if it wasn't instructions from the manager, either SAF or Jose, LOL.

 

[matherto]

We don't really step off the gas. Case in point, our 4 goal wins earlier this season.

The 4 goal wins are a case in point in favour of this though.

We stepped off the gas after going one or two up and struggled for long periods, creating nothing and giving the ball away to invite pressure, then scored easy goals at the end to make it look a hell of a lot more comfortable than it actually was, just like I said in the OP.

 

[Raoul]

The 4 goal wins are a case in point in favour of this though.

We stepped off the gas after going one or two up and struggled for long periods, creating nothing and giving the ball away to invite pressure, then scored easy goals at the end to make it look a hell of a lot more comfortable than it actually was, just like I said in the OP.

That was the entire point - to soak up the pressure and hit them on counters.

 

[matherto]

We can't keep doing this for years if it wasn't instructions from the manager, either SAF or Jose, LOL.

Have you ever heard of mentality? We've gotten used to doing 'enough'.

It's NOT a tactic to look like we're gonna concede and camp in our box whilst the opposition heaps long balls at us.

It's NOT a tactic to lose all composure with the ball and surrender it to the opposition straight away.

 

[matherto]

That was the entire point - to soak up the pressure and hit them on counters.

It makes literally no sense to do it as early as we do though so I can't believe SAF or Mourinho would entertain it. Surely if we're gopd enough and have the momentum to go two up in quick fashion we should press on and get three, four, five, etc.

We definitely step off the gas and we often concede because of it making it much harder than it ever needs to be.

 

[Robindinho]

There’s no explanation to do it. I could understand seeing out the last 5-10 minutes but we seem to do it with 30 mins left no matter what the lead.

Just invites pressure and we completely stop playing. We camp on our box and resort to hoofing it straight back asking the opposition to have another try. Does my head in.

 

[el3mel]

Have you ever heard of mentality? We've gotten used to doing 'enough'.

It's NOT a tactic to look like we're gonna concede and camp in our box whilst the opposition heaps long balls at us.

It's NOT a tactic to lose all composure with the ball and surrender it to the opposition straight away.

Are you seriously criticizing our mentality under SAF ? And you think he would have been fun with a terrible mentality and will keep going with it for 2 or 3 years ? Seriously ?

What I agree on is our lack of composure, which I talked about several times, that we lose our mind under the slightest pressure from the opponent, but the point of us stepping off and kill the game can't be anything except instructions from the manager, either SAF or Jose, because otherwise we wouldn't have been doing it all the time without a reaction from the manager.

 

[FootballHQ]

Thought first 70 minutes was one of your easiest games of the season.

Then really sat back....basically Lukaku in the WBA half and no one else and then conceded.

Wouldn't say it was panic stations for rest of game but WBA were one good set piece from drawing the game and that nearly happened with the scramble near the end.

 

[matherto]

Are you seriously criticizing our mentality under SAF ? And you think he would have been fun with a terrible mentality and will keep going with it for 2 or 3 years ? Seriously ?

Yes. SAF was brilliant but he wasn't infallible. He's not some immortal god above criticism.

We used to do 'enough' in his last few years. We rarely if ever at all battered teams and we often made hard work of easy victories by letting teams back into games that we should have sealed long before they ever had a chance.

That's a mentality problem because I don't believe it possible for SAF to say 'stop playing at 2-0 and let them score and put us under severe pressure'.

Pundits used to criticise our play in the latter years of SAF because of this problem. We'd win (and win titles too) but we never controlled a single game.

 

[nokoya]

Another boring second half, long balls, losing the ball. Why not make it 4-0 or 5-0 instead of keep ourself under pressure

Look at the goal different, MC is now 44 and we are just 27.

So sad.

 

[el3mel]

Yes. SAF was brilliant but he wasn't infallible. He's not some immortal god above criticism.

We used to do 'enough' in his last few years. We rarely if ever at all battered teams and we often made hard work of easy victories by letting teams back into games that we should have sealed long before they ever had a chance.

That's a mentality problem because I don't believe it possible for SAF to say 'stop playing at 2-0 and let them score and put us under severe pressure'.

Pundits used to criticise our play in the latter years of SAF because of this problem. We'd win (and win titles too) but we never controlled a single game.

I didn't say SAF was immune of criticism, but at the same time it would have been very strange if the players were doing this without his approval and he did nothing to correct it.

 

[Adam-Utd]

In my eyes the best way to defend is keep the ball AWAY from your goal.

Jose seems to think inviting them closer and letting them play their game is a good idea. Maybe he really trusts our defence and wants to score again on the counter, sure in an ideal world that works.

But our composure under pressure and counter attacking play is pretty poor. WBA haven’t scored in open play for hours, they’ve got a donkey up top who relies on crosses. We let them come back into the game by doing this tactic.

I say tactics, it has to be otherwise José would have stamped it out by now.

We’ve got lucky again and eventually we will drop points by doing this.

DONT LET CRAP TEAMS WALK INTO OUR HALF AND CROSS UNDER NO PRESSURE.

It’s not rocket science ffs.

 

[Mockney]

This is definitely an entirely new and easily preventable phenomenon in football.

I’m pretty sure all the early season chatter before Pogbas injury was about how well we doing the complete opposite.

 

[Florida Man]

How many times do you expect us to score 4 this year?

Obviously not every game, but even at 0-2 up against West Brom, we should be playing with more intent to score imo. We played way to nonchalant and then started shutting ourselves as soon as West Brom get a jammy goal.

 

[matherto]

Another boring second half, long balls, losing the ball. Why not make it 4-0 or 5-0 instead of keep ourself under pressure

Look at the goal different, MC is now 44 and we are just 27.

So sad.

It first came to light when Chelsea were winning games 7/8-0 in 2009/10. Then came into it again when we lost to City on goal difference in 2011/12.

We've been doing it for ages.

 

[Florida Man]

I don't disagree, but that wasn't our problem today. Did you feel any sort of pressure on us during the second half till their goal ? Everything was going fine, and the game was very boring. The main problem today is our reaction after that goal. We should never react like this when we're put under any pressure. We only play well when all things are going in our favor, which Mourinho should sort out.

I agree about to point at which we invited pressure and I agree that is a big problem we’ve had (certainly for years). I just mention the part about killing off the game earlier so that when tems do score a goal for whatever reason, we’re still at enough of an advantage to not even feel pressured. Hypothetically, if we had 4 goals initially, a late goal by West Brom wouldn’t have invited that kind of pressure we saw.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Agree. It snacks of over-coaching tbh - instead of sticking with what's working the coaches try to change it to justify their own role. If we'd just kept playing we would have won far more easily.

 

[JohnnyKills]

I think this is it. We have 6 games the next 15 days, and with all the injuries and shite Jose must have told them to take it easy. Which is fair imo, WBA never looked that dangerous until Brunt came in and started swinging in crosses

Yeah who'd have thought they'd try that heh?

 

[Florida Man]

We're vastly improved from last year.
We're not having a freak season Like City, where do we get the right to complain that we're Winning competitive matches?
It's very rare that sides go through long runs in seasons when they're never in danger of looking like dropping points. Shouldn't these games be counted towards test of character as we do when City etc grind them out?

It’s true to an extent, but that is a double edged sword because it can potentially cost us points.

 

[Adisa]

I don't really think it's Mourinho.
Our players lack courage.

 

[engulfing]

It's just efficient football. The probability of a team scoring 2 goals in 45 minutes against us parking the bus is very small, probably 5%. Thus we sit deep to kill the game off. Better than being gungho and failing to score and being more open to conceding.

 

[IppoKun]

I know this is frustrating and I myself hate it when United start dropping in intensity after getting an early advantage, but I don't think this is a tactical maneuver and it is instead tiredness in general on the center midfield.

How many games Matic missed? Matic played all your games in PL, excluding DDG, Lukaku and Valencia, he's the 4th most played player in United. The guy had/has an injury not long ago and he even played those games, without any rest. He's usually the one keeping the midfield secure and has Herrera by the side that isn't really playing that well. Don't forget that Matic is 29, he's not really that young anymore.

United needs more midfield options, McTominay is just a kid without much experience, everything else is either injured or suspended (Fellaini, Carrick, Pogba). It's the hard reality of United, you can't expect your players to run all 90 minutes every game, specially those that play the most.

By the way, 3rd most played player is Valencia who is now injured and he is another veteran player with 32 years. Can you guys not see the limit of your own team? United have way too much veterans and not many decent alternatives to rotate (even counting with the injured players).

 

[Lennon7]

We're not perfect - nor are City for that matter. They recently had a few very close fixtures where they stepped off the gas and had to get bailed out by late goals by the likes of Sterling. It happens to everyone from time to time and is not worth deep psycho-analysis.

I agree, but United fans have a lot less to be excited about, and a lot less reassurance of our quality in other games. Yes, City have taken their foot off the gas and scored late winners, but they’ve also battered Spurs, Liverpool, beat us and Chelsea etc.

We gave a decent performance against Arsenal but were saved by De Gea, comfortable win against Spurs yes but we’ve lost against Chelsea and City too.

I’m not the pessimist by the way. I’ve backed United to the hilt against some of my whingey mates who think it’s all doom and gloom, but my point is that when we take our foot off the gas it’s an indicator that we lack that cutting edge in my eyes. When City take the foot off the gas they might just be having an off day, and they always look like they’re going to score as opposed to the position we put ourselves in whereby the opposition always look like we’re going to score and we’re saved by De Gea or some resilient/lucky defending.

Hope you understand what I mean. It’s something that isn’t really a major issue.

 

[James Peril]

It's clearly a tactic that doesn't work. Amazing Mourinho still does it all the time.

Before we conclude anything, do you have statistics to back this up? Is our «losing points in the last 20 minutes after taking the lead»-figures worse than the other top teams? I agree to certain elements of this dicsussion, but what is the point if we don’t look at the stats? Mourinho likes to keep a tight defensive unit, we all know that.

 

[matherto]

Before we conclude anything, do you have statistics to back this up? Is our «losing points in the last 20 minutes after taking the lead»-figures worse than the other top teams? I agree to certain elements of this dicsussion, but what is the point if we don’t look at the stats? Mourinho likes to keep a tight defensive unit, we all know that.

Because the stats will show, as all of us that point to this being a problem have said, that we don't actually lose points that often.

Like I said in the OP, we go a goal or two up and then shut off. For at least 40-50 minutes of football we give the ball away, invite pressure and retreat to our box.

Sometimes like at the start of the season, we finally wake up at the end and score a few on the counter.

More often we end up on the brink of throwing points away like we were today. We actually don't and we usually see it out but it's absolutely needless, frustrating and made worse when the other teams in the top 6 seemingly batter teams with regularity (not just talking City this season).

When was the last time we truly battered someone? The 4-0's earlier this season don't count because for vast swathes of the game it was 1-0/2-0 and we were struggling to keep the opposition out.

I'd hazard a guess that it was the 7-1 against Blackburn when Berbatov scored 5. Willing to be proven wrong but that is the last time I remember it.

The absolute epitome of this problem was SAF's last game against WBA. We should've won it by a huge margin and we ended up somehow ridiculously drawing 5-5.

 

[Camilo]

I can only assume Mourinho has the stats to back up his tactics..

But I think from a mental perspective, it must be wearing on the players. Going for big wins, trying things without pressure, they must surely help confidence in the team. I don't get it really.

 

[JG3001]

We don't really step off the gas. Case in point, our 4 goal wins earlier this season.

It’s a bit more of a recent trend, but Id argue we take our foot off the gas and let go of the wheel lol.

To me taking your foot off the gas means slowing the play down in a controlled manner, simple passing, don’t do much, just keep the ball, like a good old boring Van Gaal team.

Not pass, pass, keeper, hoof, opposition attack, rinse & repeat.

 

[elmo]

Are you seriously criticizing our mentality under SAF ? And you think he would have been fun with a terrible mentality and will keep going with it for 2 or 3 years ? Seriously ?

What I agree on is our lack of composure, which I talked about several times, that we lose our mind under the slightest pressure from the opponent, but the point of us stepping off and kill the game can't be anything except instructions from the manager, either SAF or Jose, because otherwise we wouldn't have been doing it all the time without a reaction from the manager.

I mean considering Sir Alex basically did this for the last few years of his time with us, that pretty much settles the answer.

 

[jem]

Because the stats will show, as all of us that point to this being a problem have said, that we don't actually lose points that often.

Like I said in the OP, we go a goal or two up and then shut off. For at least 40-50 minutes of football we give the ball away, invite pressure and retreat to our box.

Sometimes like at the start of the season, we finally wake up at the end and score a few on the counter.

More often we end up on the brink of throwing points away like we were today. We actually don't and we usually see it out but it's absolutely needless, frustrating and made worse when the other teams in the top 6 seemingly batter teams with regularity (not just talking City this season).

When was the last time we truly battered someone? The 4-0's earlier this season don't count because for vast swathes of the game it was 1-0/2-0 and we were struggling to keep the opposition out.

I'd hazard a guess that it was the 7-1 against Blackburn when Berbatov scored 5. Willing to be proven wrong but that is the last time I remember it.

The absolute epitome of this problem was SAF's last game against WBA. We should've won it by a huge margin and we ended up somehow ridiculously drawing 5-5.

The Arsenal game the following season.

 

[jem]

Because the stats will show, as all of us that point to this being a problem have said, that we don't actually lose points that often.

Like I said in the OP, we go a goal or two up and then shut off. For at least 40-50 minutes of football we give the ball away, invite pressure and retreat to our box.

Sometimes like at the start of the season, we finally wake up at the end and score a few on the counter.

More often we end up on the brink of throwing points away like we were today. We actually don't and we usually see it out but it's absolutely needless, frustrating and made worse when the other teams in the top 6 seemingly batter teams with regularity (not just talking City this season).

When was the last time we truly battered someone? The 4-0's earlier this season don't count because for vast swathes of the game it was 1-0/2-0 and we were struggling to keep the opposition out.

I'd hazard a guess that it was the 7-1 against Blackburn when Berbatov scored 5. Willing to be proven wrong but that is the last time I remember it.

The absolute epitome of this problem was SAF's last game against WBA. We should've won it by a huge margin and we ended up somehow ridiculously drawing 5-5.

But if the early season 4-0s don't count, then neither should the 5-5 vs WBA, as that was a game in which we had built a big lead, only to throw it away. All that being said, I agree that it is incredibly frustrating how often we fail to put teams to the sword.

 

[matherto]

The Arsenal game the following season.

I knew there'd be one to slip the net. Right you are.

The City game shortly after that of course killed us in terms of being an all out attacking outfit and we've never recovered.

 

[jem]

I knew there'd be one to slip the net. Right you are.

The City game shortly after that of course killed us in terms of being an all out attacking outfit and we've never recovered.

I think the Leicester game in LVG's first year also scarred the team to an extent (it certainly seemed like LVG became more cautious after that.)