Steven Gerrard

BarneyLFC said:
It's not his goals that are the reason he's being praised.

Everybody and his dog were slaughtering Gerrard after the Villa game. He was being called past it by everyone, including many of our own supporters. Since then he's been brilliant.
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He's been really good second half of the season. Not Pirlo good or anything but a lot better than most people including Liverpool fans expected.

I think you could be even better though if you had someone with a bit more mobility and the ability to dictate the game in there but those kinds of players are few and far between.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
It's not only the media, it's also the Pool support that are going to make that out (see Barney's post above). I can see why for both though: the media are going to love bigging up the England captain just before the WC as well, and he's a darling with the Pool support who want him to be the incarnation of their title, if they win it.
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Again, he was absolutely slaughtered by the media after the Villa game. Now, he's rightfully getting the praise he deserves.
 
Blasphemy said:
He's been really good second half of the season. Not Pirlo good or anything but a lot better than most people including Liverpool fans expected.

I think you could be even better though if you had someone with a bit more mobility and the ability to dictate the game in there but those kinds of players are few and far between.
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For me he's been nearly as good as he was in his prime, It's just taking place in a different position.
 
BarneyLFC said:
It's not his goals that are the reason he's being praised.

Everybody and his dog were slaughtering Gerrard after the Villa game. He was being called past it by everyone, including many of our own supporters. Since then he's been brilliant.
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I know he is more than just goals, but I think brilliant is ambit much. He is a good player, but he reminds me of raul from 06 to 09. He was performing ok and getting goals, but in big matches was a hindrance and there were better players out there that he was stopping us from signing as he was surviving on his legendary status. I know you love gerrard and all and rightly so, but surely you would agree that right now there are quite a few players you could sign that are better than him and would offer you more and improve the team. When raul was being phased out Madrid improved. I really struggle to think of other big teams that he would get into right now and that was the case for raul back then, players surviving mostly on legendary status
 
Rooney in Paris said:
It's not only the media, it's also the Pool support that are going to make that out (see Barney's post above). I can see why for both though: the media are going to love bigging up the England captain just before the WC as well, and he's a darling with the Pool support who want him to be the incarnation of their title, if they win it.
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Suarez will be the main player obviously as I struggle to think of any player in the world that has been more consistent in league football, but Rodgers and his excellent management and united poor season have played a big part in their form and confidence
 
Raul Madrid said:
I know he is more than just goals, but I think brilliant is ambit much. He is a good player, but he reminds me of raul from 06 to 09. He was performing ok and getting goals, but in big matches was a hindrance and there were better players out there that he was stopping us from signing as he was surviving on his legendary status. I know you love gerrard and all and rightly so, but surely you would agree that right now there are quite a few players you could sign that are better than him and would offer you more and improve the team. When raul was being phased out Madrid improved. I really struggle to think of other big teams that he would get into right now and that was the case for raul back then, players surviving mostly on legendary status
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I think that's unfair. He's still much better than any of Liverpool's other central midfielders.
 
Raul Madrid said:
Suarez will be the main player obviously as I struggle to think of any player in the world that has been more consistent in league football, but Rodgers and his excellent management and united poor season have played a big part in their form and confidence
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We only play United twice. Their form has nothing to do with our success.

Raul Madrid said:
I know he is more than just goals, but I think brilliant is ambit much. He is a good player, but he reminds me of raul from 06 to 09. He was performing ok and getting goals, but in big matches was a hindrance and there were better players out there that he was stopping us from signing as he was surviving on his legendary status. I know you love gerrard and all and rightly so, but surely you would agree that right now there are quite a few players you could sign that are better than him and would offer you more and improve the team. When raul was being phased out Madrid improved. I really struggle to think of other big teams that he would get into right now and that was the case for raul back then, players surviving mostly on legendary status
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Name these players that are doing better in his role. Lahm, Busquets, who else?
 
BarneyLFC said:
For me he's been nearly as good as he was in his prime, It's just taking place in a different position.
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Don't agree with that, in his prime he was one of the best players in the world. He's some way from that these days.
 
Blasphemy said:
He's been really good second half of the season. Not Pirlo good or anything but a lot better than most people including Liverpool fans expected.

I think you could be even better though if you had someone with a bit more mobility and the ability to dictate the game in there but those kinds of players are few and far between.
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You think Pirlo would have done a better job than Gerrard in the frenetic pace of The Premiership ?
 
Blasphemy said:
I think that's unfair. He's still much better than any of Liverpool's other central midfielders.
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Its an unpopular opinion and I will get made fun of for this but I think Henderson is a very good player and i feel if he played outside england he would be rated higher. He is similar but not as good as Alonso imo.I Im not saying he is their best mf and I cant claim to watch them everyweek, but Liverpool are more a team that is greater than the sum of its parts than one that relies on world class players. Apart from suarez I don't consider them to have any, but like atletico they have shown you don't have to have loads of them. For me gerrards best football came from playing in the hole, not in midfield. I honestly think his passing is too inconsistent to be a world class midfielder, but at his best he was undeniably a world class player in the hole behind torres. If they win the league it will be ,mostly down to suarez being unbelievably consistent, Rodgers great motivation and footballing philosophy and ability to get his team to play on a level that is higher than people would expect them to play at.
 
redman5 said:
You think Pirlo would have done a better job than Gerrard in the frenetic pace of The Premiership ?
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In his prime certainly.

The speed of the Premiership's not the problem anyway, it's that Pirlo needs runners alongside him to protect him and get the best from him (much like you guys do with Henderson/Allen or Henderson/Lucas). Give him that in the PL and he'll run the show like he always does and has done loads of times versus England or English teams but put him in a 2 man midfield with a box to box midfielder who's goes walkabout and yeah he'll get found out.
 
Raul Madrid said:
Its an unpopular opinion and I will get made fun of for this but I think Henderson is a very good player and i feel if he played outside england he would be rated higher. He is similar but not as good as Alonso imo.I Im not saying he is their best mf and I cant claim to watch them everyweek, but Liverpool are more a team that is greater than the sum of its parts than one that relies on world class players. Apart from suarez I don't consider them to have any, but like atletico they have shown you don't have to have loads of them. For me gerrards best football came from playing in the hole, not in midfield. I honestly think his passing is too inconsistent to be a world class midfielder, but at his best he was undeniably a world class player in the hole behind torres. If they win the league it will be ,mostly down to suarez being unbelievably consistent, Rodgers great motivation and footballing philosophy and ability to get his team to play on a level that is higher than people would expect them to play at.
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Suarez and Gerrard for me are both world class. Sturridge and Sterling both are heading that way too if we get another year or two of similar performances.
 
BarneyLFC said:
Modric and Xavi don't play as the deepest midfielder for their respective clubs. Haven't watched much Serie A.
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They still both play very deep and build their teams play from 10 yards in front of the defence. Xavi doesn't play any less deep than Gerrard does these days it's just they also use Busquets deep as well. If you're going to be like that then it's almost impossible to compare anyone because no one plays the exact same system.

Thiago I don't think has been better.
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He's been far better. Better passer, better at controlling the game, better decision making, way better when he's pressed and in tight spaces and much quicker along the ground.
 
Blasphemy said:
They still both play very deep and build their teams play from 10 yards in front of the defence. Xavi doesn't play any less deep than Gerrard does these days it's just they also use Busquets deep as well. If you're going to be like that then it's almost impossible to compare anyone because no one plays the exact same system.



He's been far better. Better passer, better at controlling the game, better decision making, way better when he's pressed and in tight spaces and much quicker along the ground.
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Can't agree re. Thiago. He's probably quicker and better in tight spaces, but at passing and controlling a game Gerrard has been as good as anyone since the Villa game.
 
BarneyLFC said:
but at passing and controlling a game Gerrard has been as good as anyone since the Villa game.
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I still think Xavi's comfortably the best in the world at this. It's just everyone is so used to seeing him do it effortlessly every single week that people take it for granted and forget how insane it is that a player just dominates the ball every week.
 
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BarneyLFC said:
We only play United twice. Their form has nothing to do with our success.



Name these players that are doing better in his role. Lahm, Busquets, who else?
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Im not a coach so there is no way anyone here can be 100% specific about which players are in the same position but I am sure that most would agree that gerrard would struggle to get into munichs, madrids, barcelonas, juventus, maybe even dortmunds team when all their players are fit. Also de rossi has been good when I watched him this season. I don't agree that he is world class anymore, but we can agree to differ as world class has no fixed meaning. He is a leader and im sure he is very important but terms of pure quality at the moment there are a lot players ahead of him imo and im sure a lot on the café would agree :smirk:.
 
Blasphemy said:
I still think Xavi's comfortably the best in the world at this. It's just everyone is so used to seeing him do it effortlessly every single week that people take it for granted and forget how insane it is that a player just dominates the ball every week.
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I agree. Since ive watched football there has been no-one and there is no-one better at it imo. He very rarely gives the ball away and his positioning is brilliant. I fear him more than iniesta when he has the ball. His low decline has coincided with barcas slow decline, it couldn't be a coincidence.
 

Im not a coach so there is no way anyone here can be 100% specific about which players are in the same position but I am sure that most would agree that gerrard would struggle to get into munichs, madrids, barcelonas, juventus, maybe even dortmunds team when all their players are fit. Also de rossi has been good when I watched him this season. I don't agree that he is world class anymore, but we can agree to differ as world class has no fixed meaning. He is a leader and im sure he is very important but terms of pure quality at the moment there are a lot players ahead of him imo and im sure a lot on the café would agree :smirk:.[/QUOTE]

Munich tried to buy him a couple of summers ago. He'd get in ahead of Alonso this season. He wouldn't get into Barcelona's, no. He wouldn't get into Dortmund's based on the style of football that they play.

The caf will, of course, agree with you, but 99% of the caf can't stand him.
 
BarneyLFC said:
Gerrard won every tackle he went in for, had a 90% pass completion, an assist and four interceptions against the supposed best side in the league. Gerrard was superb. Rightfully won man of the match.
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He only made 3 tackles and two were by the touchline that went for throw ins Coutinho made 8. His assist was a corner and made a total of 1 pass in the final 3rd. The most common pass combination he had was him to Skrtel. Passing backwards around Dzeko to your CB isn't bossing the game.

Now look at the man he was supposed to be marking. David Silva- 2 goals scored, 4 other shots, 3 chances created and more passes made/received in the final 3rd than any player on both sides.
 
Raul Madrid said:
I agree. Since ive watched football there has been no-one and there is no-one better at it imo. He very rarely gives the ball away and his positioning is brilliant. I fear him more than iniesta when he has the ball. His low decline has coincided with barcas slow decline, it couldn't be a coincidence.
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Best central midfielder I've ever seen. Going to be a sad day when he hangs up his boots. Hopefully he gets his swansong in Brazil.
 
BarneyLFC said:
Modric and Xavi don't play as the deepest midfielder for their respective clubs. Haven't watched much Serie A. Thiago I don't think has been better.
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Modric most certainly has played large parts of this season as the deepest CM it's just he isn't completely restricted to that role like Gerrard is. Gerrard has been restricted to this role because he simply doesn't have the legs nor defensive discipline to move higher up the pitch any more which isn't the case with Modric/Xavi. You're crazy if you think Gerrard has been better than Thiago this season.
 
Even if I really rated Gerrard, I wouldn't be confident rating him above any of Bayern's midfielders: Schweinsteiger, Kroos, Lahm, Martinez, Gotze. All better than Gerrard is now by quite a distance.

As far as DMs, there is a list who are likely better than Gerrard.

Busquets
Lahm
Martinez
Pogba
Pirlo
Both Bender twins
Fernandinho
Alonso

off the top of my head. That doesn't mean that Gerrard isn't good, he just isn't "world class" at the moment, and he isn't your player of the season.
 
Obviously he's not the player of the season. Suarez wins that hands down. Half of those haven't been as good as Gerrard since the Villa game or don't play role that he does.
 
BarneyLFC said:
Im not a coach so there is no way anyone here can be 100% specific about which players are in the same position but I am sure that most would agree that gerrard would struggle to get into munichs, madrids, barcelonas, juventus, maybe even dortmunds team when all their players are fit. Also de rossi has been good when I watched him this season. I don't agree that he is world class anymore, but we can agree to differ as world class has no fixed meaning. He is a leader and im sure he is very important but terms of pure quality at the moment there are a lot players ahead of him imo and im sure a lot on the café would agree :smirk:.
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I think you are really underestimating Alonsos influence this year. since he kheidera got injured and Alonso returned we have improved big time going something like 20-25 matches unbeaten. Our game has been much more possession based than last year and Alonso (as well as modric) has been a big part of that. I don't agree that gerrard has been better than Alonso. Apart from the odd feck up like giving away the penalty against barca, alonso has done his job well, and while he has declined he is still a great player. I would also say atm alonso is held to a higher standard than gerrard as that is what happens when you play for Madrid or barca (even Ronaldo is booed) and also when you are a Spanish world cup winner that is playing in the cl for a team challenging for three trophies (we could well end up with none). If gerrard played for Madrid I don't think people would be so kind to him and his poorer games would be highlighted more. there is no sky in spain so no players are protected, look at how a great player like fabregas is treated. If gerrard was playing in spain for Madrid in a team going for three trophies in in the cl semi finals then I have no doubt that the café would be criticising him like they are for Liverpool now and the media would too. Madrid are judged by much harsher standards than Liverpool. Also even if it is true about bayenr, I don't feel he would get into their team as much as you or the English media would like and I am sure a lot of the Bayern fans on this would agree.
 
Raul Madrid said:
I think you are really underestimating Alonsos influence this year. since he kheidera got injured and Alonso returned we have improved big time going something like 20-25 matches unbeaten. Our game has been much more possession based than last year and Alonso (as well as modric) has been a big part of that. I don't agree that gerrard has been better than Alonso. Apart from the odd feck up like giving away the penalty against barca, alonso has done his job well, and while he has declined he is still a great player. I would also say atm alonso is held to a higher standard than gerrard as that is what happens when you play for Madrid or barca (even Ronaldo is booed) and also when you are a Spanish world cup winner that is playing in the cl for a team challenging for three trophies (we could well end up with none). If gerrard played for Madrid I don't think people would be so kind to him and his poorer games would be highlighted more. there is no sky in spain so no players are protected, look at how a great player like fabregas is treated. If gerrard was playing in spain for Madrid in a team going for three trophies in in the cl semi finals then I have no doubt that the café would be criticising him like they are for Liverpool now and the media would too. Madrid are judged by much harsher standards than Liverpool. Also even if it is true about bayenr, I don't feel he would get into their team as much as you or the English media would like and I am sure a lot of the Bayern fans on this would agree.
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We've won 10 straight and are unbeaten since the start of the year. Gerrard's form is a driving force behind that.

Ronaldo is booed because he acts like a selfish twat.
 
goin4glory said:
Modric most certainly has played large parts of this season as the deepest CM it's just he isn't completely restricted to that role like Gerrard is. Gerrard has been restricted to this role because he simply doesn't have the legs nor defensive discipline to move higher up the pitch any more which isn't the case with Modric/Xavi. You're crazy if you think Gerrard has been better than Thiago this season.
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Modric has been excellent this year and for me either our best or second best player after Ronaldo (Ronaldo has been suspended and injured this year). No matter what role they play for their team, I think you would striggle to say gerrard has been better this year. I don't think there would be many, if any mf that have been more consistent than modric this season. He regularly gets applauded by the crowd and that is surely worth more than praise from the fickle people on sky. The way he can pass the ball short and long and dribble with the ball forward, and also change direction and shimmy through players is so beautiful to watch. mourinho did well to sign him, not bad for the worst signing of last year as said by marca :smirk:. I wonder how marca would react to gerrard. I imagine it would not be as nice as sky are to him.
 
BarneyLFC said:
Obviously he's not the player of the season. Suarez wins that hands down. Half of those haven't been as good as Gerrard since the Villa game or don't play role that he does.
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If you want to limit the discussion to DM who aren't allowed to enter the final 3rd then you're dealing with a very small list among the top clubs in Europe. Plenty of that list are the most defensive in their respective teams just because it isn't the same role as Gerrard doesn't mean they don't warrant comparison especially since most of them offer much more than he does.
 
BarneyLFC said:
We've won 10 straight and are unbeaten since the start of the year. Gerrard's form is a driving force behind that.

Ronaldo is booed because he acts like a selfish twat.
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Ronaldo is booed for being selfish and also because the crowd is harder to please than obviously liverpool fans and the English media. Booed for being selfish, there is a reason he is called stevie me, how would they react to a player like gerrard who is selfish and not near as productive as Ronaldo.
 
Raul Madrid said:
Modric has been excellent this year and for me either our best or second best player after Ronaldo (Ronaldo has been suspended and injured this year). No matter what role they play for their team, I think you would striggle to say gerrard has been better this year. I don't think there would be many, if any mf that have been more consistent than modric this season. He regularly gets applauded by the crowd and that is surely worth more than praise from the fickle people on sky. The way he can pass the ball short and long and dribble with the ball forward, and also change direction and shimmy through players is so beautiful to watch. mourinho did well to sign him, not bad for the worst signing of last year as said by marca :smirk:. I wonder how marca would react to gerrard. I imagine it would not be as nice as sky are to him.
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Modric has been brilliant this year, yes.

But judging fan applause as a measure of how good a player is? Ffs.

It's not only Sky who are praising him. Many decent journos have been too.
 
Raul Madrid said:
Ronaldo is booed for being selfish and also because the crowd is harder to please than obviously liverpool fans and the English media. Booed for being selfish, there is a reason he is called stevie me, how would they react to a player like gerrard who is selfish and not near as productive as Ronaldo.
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Give me one example of Gerrard's selfishness this season.
 
BarneyLFC said:
Modric has been brilliant this year, yes.

But judging fan applause as a measure of how good a player is? Ffs.

It's not only Sky who are praising him. Many decent journos have been too.
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Without wanting to sound arrogant, the bernebeu fans are not easy to win over. Like barca fans, they will easily turn on one of their own. I don't think you will find anyone except Liverpool fans that would want gerrard over modric atm. But then again youa re biased, as am I ;)
 
Raul Madrid said:
Modric has been excellent this year and for me either our best or second best player after Ronaldo (Ronaldo has been suspended and injured this year). No matter what role they play for their team, I think you would striggle to say gerrard has been better this year. I don't think there would be many, if any mf that have been more consistent than modric this season. He regularly gets applauded by the crowd and that is surely worth more than praise from the fickle people on sky. The way he can pass the ball short and long and dribble with the ball forward, and also change direction and shimmy through players is so beautiful to watch. mourinho did well to sign him, not bad for the worst signing of last year as said by marca :smirk:. I wonder how marca would react to gerrard. I imagine it would not be as nice as sky are to him.
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Gerrard would have been slaughtered by the Spanish press after he'd hit 2 or 3 of his hollywood passes into the stands and I personally hope he prolongs his career at Liverpool for as long as possible. While I don't really like just how critical the spanish fans can be of players especially ones who've been massively important it can serve a purpose because no one escapes criticism. I remember reading comments from Fabregas on how the criticism is like nothing else at Barxa but he loves it because everyone is accountable. I agree with you on Raul by the end of his career at Madrid he was detrimental to the side even though he was still a decent player.

I am a huge Modric fan he was my priority target for at least 2 summers and I'm still gutted we didn't get him, although I'd rather see him at Madrid than Chelsea. No chance Gerrard has been better this season Modric should be amongst those nominated for player of the year in Spain.
 
BarneyLFC said:
Give me one example of Gerrard's selfishness this season.
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In all honesty, I am not that sad to go digging up stuff, I mean in general throughout his career. At gerrards level right now, I don't think he could afford to be selfish. He cant win matches like he used to be able on his own. His ability to do that as well as his ability overaal declined since 09/10 season imo.
 
a good premier league player. a good distance off the level of keane, vieira, scholes, lampard. media darling though so will be immortalised as being far batter than he actually was. a passenger for 10 years in games against top teams
 
SER19 said:
a good premier league player. a good distance off the level of keane, vieira, scholes, lampard. media darling though so will be immortalised as being far batter than he actually was. a passenger for 10 years in games against top teams
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I can't take you seriously.
 
SER19 said:
a good premier league player. a good distance off the level of keane, vieira, scholes, lampard. media darling though so will be immortalised as being far batter than he actually was. a passenger for 10 years in games against top teams
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Of all of those guys imo scholes is the best. He was a proper mifielder that could control matches by short passing and long passing. Alonso, xavi, iniesta, zidane etc wax lyrical about him for a reason. He was unique and would have been better appreciated in spain imo. Crazy that lampard and scholes were picked over him, the great players that they were.
 
Raul Madrid said:
Of all of those guys imo scholes is the best. He was a proper mifielder that could control matches by short passing and long passing. Alonso, xavi, iniesta, zidane etc wax lyrical about him for a reason. He was unique and would have been better appreciated in spain imo. Crazy that lampard and scholes were picked over him, the great players that they were.
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Keane > Vieira > Gerrard > Scholes IMO.

Lampard is some way off the rest. But let's not start the age old caf debate up again.
 
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