Synth Draft: QF2- Physiocrat vs Moby

[Enigma_87]

TEAM PHYSIOCRAT

VS

TEAM MOBY​

TEAM PHYSIOCRAT FORMATION AND TACTICS​

Tactics

Asymmetric 433

Defensive Line Moderate/High
Moderate/High risk possession team (possession with a purpose) stretching the play both laterally and vertically.

Marking - Zonal, no man-to-man making during open play.

Player Name - Player Position - Player Role/Info

Walter Zenga - Goalkeeper - IFFHS Goalkeeper of the year '88, '89 and '90. Inter keeper for over 10 years and has 58 caps for Italy.

Elias Figueroa - Ball-playing CB- bring the ball out from the back and utilising his passing range. FIFA voted him best player in the world in '75 and '76. He will be a little more defensive in possession than against Skizz but will still provide an outlet from deep.

Oscar Ruggeri- Centre Back - Classic stopper. La Liga Foreign player of the year '89 and SA Footballer of the year '91. 97 caps for Argentina. In 86' won the World Cup with Argentina and the Libertadores with River Plate.

Anatoliy Demyanenko - Attacking Right Back – Bomb forward and overlap Littbarski. Dynamo Kiev legend with 333 appearances and 80 caps for the USSR. Voted third greatest Ukranian player of all-time behind Blokhin and Shevchenko.

Emlyn Hughes - Defensive Left-back/ CB - Began his career at left back and ended up as a CB so is the perfect play to move to CB when Figueroa moves into midfield. Captain of the great Liverpool side of the 70s (four leagues and two European Cups) and also captained England. Footballer of the year in '77.


Franky van der Elst – DM – Destroyer however he also had great timing and positional sense. Perfect for shielding the back four and for playing accurate simple, passes. Won the Belgian Golden Shoe twice which is pretty impressive for a defensive midfielder. 466 appearances for Club Bruges and 86 caps for Belgium and played in four consecutive world cups.

Johan Neeskens – Box-to-box CM– Replaces Whonoz Munoz. Brilliant engine and technical ability who can link with Littbarski and Demyanenko in possession. The ultimate box-to-box CM.

Carlos Valderrama – Attacking CM Playmaker – the great Colombian playmaker with excellent passing and dribbling ability. He will start off deepish but move forward to a more classic 10 position in possession. His through balls to the front three will be a nightmare for Sizz's defence. South American footballer of the year '87 and '93.

Pierre Littbarski - Right Wing Forward – Wide forward role to cut in with his excellent dribbling and provide a goal threat as well as playing in Careca - Littbarski most assists in the 1982 World Cup. At Koln between '81-85 he averaged nearly a goal every two games which easily equal in this side.

John Barnes - Playmaking Left Winger - Great dribbler and crosser but with far greater intelligence than a typical winger who will be a dream for Careca. Player of the Year in '88 and '90. Also a member of the PFA's team of the century (players between 1977-1996).

Careca - Striker - If he would have been fit Brazil could well have won the '82 World Cup. An almost 1 in 2 record for Napoli in Serie A's ultra-defensive heyday. Excellent movement and intelligence he will be a hand-full on the ground and in the air.

TEAM MOBY FORMATION AND TACTICS​

We will play the 4-2-3-1 formation. Claudio Taffarel is the goalkeeper. The central defense comprises of the brilliant all round presence of Paul McGrath coupled with the legendary and one of the greatest defenders and sweepers of all time in Gaetano Scirea. Sccirea would be marshalling the defense with his wonderful leadership and organization skills while McGrath provides the perfect foil in terms of providing the all round presence next to him which can cover a vast array of threats, while sharing a lot of his burden to play the ball out from the back with calmness and composure making a really formidable central defensive pairing.

Flanking them are two absolutely impregnable defensive stalwarts in Berti Vogts and Stuart Pearce. Vogts brings in his tremendous marking ability and is a nightmare for any left winger as Barnes will find out in this match and in addition to his all time great defense his ability on the ball and the combination down the right with Houseman should not be ignored, as the evidence from his club career clearly shows. In Pearce there is another massively tough mentally leader who frequently showcased his tough as nails defense against an array of threats as well as his quality swing of the left foot when having the ball.

The midfield comprises of one of the greatest CMs ever in Graeme Souness, as good as they come in this time period and one who dominated England and Europe as Liverpool's central figure. Partnering him is the insanely talented and hard working Soren Lerby. Souness' tight defense, strong mentality and tactical astuteness is the perfect foil for the all action Lerby to take the battle in his hands and provide his presence both in defense and attack. Both these midfielders provide an excellent shield to the defense and impactful passing and running with the ball going forward.

On the flanks, we have two excellent wingers in Paulo Futre and René Houseman. Two outstanding dribblers, who with their pace and ability to turn on a dime and leave defenders for dead would be vital in providing our attack with ammo down the flanks. Both were good passers and crossers of the balls. They were equally comfortable cutting in and getting involved in the build-up play as they were drifting out wide and beating the opposition full-back to provide the width, and definitely not shy of darting towards the goal and getting goals for themselves.

At the heart of the team is, Zico. Playing in a free-role behind the striker, Zico has been given the license to roam all around the final third and link-up with others. Futre and Houseman can provide him with service and link-up from the flanks along with the full-backs while the midfield can get him the ball in and near the final third where he would get the chance to run at opposition defenders. He would be provided with adequate service to do his magic in the attacking third. Also important to mention that the wide players and the front two pack an enormous amount of skill and trickery allowing Zico a lot of opportunities to get behind the dead ball from deadly situations, and given he's one of the greatest at hitting them into the net that would definitely be a great weapon for us.

Up front, we have Tostao. It is well known that Tostao formed one of the greatest partnerships up front seen in the World Cups with Pelé in 1970, providing the perfect foil in terms of skill, link up, ability to drop deep and release him, and provide elite finishing himself with the service from the great man. Here, he has the White Pele to do the same and we expect him to form a perfectly natural Samba partnership up front with both being perfectly capable of scoring or creating for the other. Not to mention, he will be a great facilitator for the two wide men who love to cut inside and score.

Overall in this game, I acknowledge Physio's fantastic backline which we aim to constantly engange with the breathtaking front four that has been assembled in this team. Zico and Tostao were both right up there amongst the best players of their generation in terms of skill, technique, dribbling, creativity and match winning ability with the former being one of the greatest ever in that regard and both have shown on the highest level that when surrounded with similar high skilled partners they usually create partnerships that are greater than the sum of the parts which we hope to accomplish here. Between the two of them and the great outlets and support from out wide who would constantly inject pace, trickery and stretch the play creating space for the central players it is hard not to see them scoring.

 

[Enigma_87]

@Physiocrat @Moby all the best! Should be a great game.

 

[Moby]

Cheers for setting it up Enigma.

Good luck, @Physiocrat

 

[Moby]

I feel like pointing out that around a set of great players no doubt, a lot of onus of creativity and penetration in the final third relies on Barnes (and Litti) for Physio and both are facing very astute defenders, especially Barnes who would have to battle against Vogts, and if I can curb him somewhat on that side, it would definitely blunt his attack somehow and could give me a decent edge in terms of outscoring the opponent.

 

[Physiocrat]

I feel like pointing out that around a set of great players no doubt, a lot of onus of creativity and penetration in the final third relies on Barnes (and Litti) for Physio and both are facing very astute defenders, especially Barnes who would have to battle against Vogts, and if I can curb him somewhat on that side, it would definitely blunt his attack somehow and could give me a decent edge in terms of outscoring the opponent.

Vogts is an excellent defender however it is not the case that the burden will be on Barnes for creativity. Littbarski provided the most assists in the 82 World Cup and will be constantly overlapped by Demyanenko. Further they are up against Pearce, who was a solid defender, but will at least have his handful against these too. The next question will Futre drop back and defend much- if not there's a lot riding on Lerby in defending. You will probably defending zonally and shift across but without Lerby helping or Futre helping out there's a two on one. Then there is the question of Valderrama who is the second most creative player on the pitch. Without help from Futre it will be difficult trying to hold his shape could well be difficult and allow space for Valderrama to play through balls to Careca and Littbarski (he scored 1 in 2 at his peak). Of course Scriea and McGrath is an excellent pairing but they will have their work cut out here especially if you don't hold your shape. One last thing for the moment, is that in close games such as these the keeper can make all the difference and whilst Taffarel is probaby one of the best Brazilian keepers of all time, Zenga is a cut above winning best keeper of the year three years in a row.

 

[Physiocrat]

@Enigma_87 Thanks for setting up

 

[harms]

Nice pic, did you make it yourself, @Moby?

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I think Litti/Neeskens have an edge over Lerby/Pearce.

Have tentatively placed an vote for Moby, but want to know more on Franky. Zico is placed to have a big game if it's a big mismatch.

Open to changing votes depending on discussions.

 

[Ecstatic]

Why an arrow on Valderramma and not on Neeskens?

The feeling that Neeskens is more dynamic than the former.

 

[Ecstatic]

Like EAP, my vote is subject to the ongoing discussions.

 

[Physiocrat]

@Edgar Allan Pillow

Here's what I have on van der Elst.

Defensive midfielders don’t tend to be ‘Flash Arrys’, aren’t necessarily meant to get noticed but just get on with the job in hand. They tend to be underrated and only appreciated when they’ve gone. Franky van der Elst bucked the trend. Most player of the year awards go to the top scorers, the playmakers, the players that have you out of your seats. Van der Elst won the Belgium Golden Shoe twice.

Born in Ninove, Belgium in April 1961, van der Elst’s youth career at Blau-Wit Lombeek was followed by a move at 17 years old to Racing White Daring Molenbeek [RWDM] in Brussels to begin his professional career. His debut came at the end of 1978-9 season when he replaced Johan Boskamp who the next season would be his coach. Under Boskamp, who appreciated the young player’s defensive attributes, van der Elst was able to establish himself over the next few seasons as the mainstay of the team in centre midfield. However, bigger clubs were noticing van der Elst and in the summer of 1984 he moved to Club Brugge.

Club Brugge were intent on revitalizing an aging team and van der Elst would join Jan Ceulemans and for a short spell Jean-Pierre Papin. It wasn’t long before van der Elst made his national team debut in a World Cup qualifier against Greece. In doing so he would be joining the golden generation at international level under Guy Thys which saw The Red Devils go to five major tournaments. In total van der Elst would make 86 appearances for Belgium up to 1998.

At club level, The Blauw-Zwart lifted the league title in 1988 and again in 1990 along with the Super Cup. Times were changing though; transfers and injuries saw players leave and Ceulemans retire with van der Elst replacing him as captain. Over the next eight years – all with van der Elst leading, the team would win three league titles, three Belgian Cups and five Super Cups.

Still with Club Brugge, 1999 saw his final year as a player. At the end of the season after 466 appearances for the Blauw-Zwart, van der Elst retired.

Strength in leadership and strong as a player [as you need to be to play the defensive midfield role], van der Elst patrolled the midfield, protecting his defence not just with his ability in the tackle [the sliding tackle his specialty] but with his positional sense and his command of the midfield which gave such a steady platform for his teammates such as Ceulemans and Enzo Scifo to go forward.



GREATEST SQUAD – STARTING XI [4-2-3-1]

----------------------------------MICHEL PREUD’HOMME----------------------------------------

-------------------------WALTER MEEUWS -------LAURENT VERBIEST

ERIC GERETS------------------------------------------------------------JEAN THISSEN

---------------------WILFRIED VAN MOER -------FRANKY VAN DER ELST------------

ARMAND ‘JEF’ JURION-----------------ENZO SCIFO---------------JAN CUELEMANS

---------------------------------------PAUL VAN HIMST

TLR Greatest Belgian DM of all-time and won the player of the year twice in Belgium, not bad for a DM. Since 1973 only three defensive midfielders have won the PFA Player of the Year and none won it twice.


The above has some nice clips showing general touch and defensive nous.


On a general note on van der Elst, he is not man marking Zico. He is part of a team zonal defense which structurally speaking will be much more solid than Moby's defense. Neeskens will also be able to help out somewhat too.

@Ecstatic Regarding Valderrama, the arrow is just to show he will move into the 10 position in possession. Neeskens will bomb up and down as he sees fit - I didn't want the forward arrow on him as it would make him look like he was more attacking than I intend.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

These two teams had my votes for the best drafted sides. Really like the look of both of them. Will have to think a little more on this.

Also, love the graphic @Moby -great new style!

 

[Tuppet]

That graphic is really cool @Moby
Looks like Vogts taking a knee, it really has become a global phenomena.

 

[Physiocrat]

I generally like Moby's team, his front four are great- Zico and Tostao could work wonderfully. I think he has an issue in midfield. Against me he's ideally want the more defensive of the two in the LCM position and I think that Souness is being under utilised here, he is at his dynamic best next to more of DM than a moderately offensive box-to-box player. Given this mild imbalance Moby really needs Futre to track back quite a bit to protect Pearce, otherwise it's two on one. Now Futre could do this but given what I have read, I don't think he'd be great at it even if he tries to.

 

[Physiocrat]

I'm off to bed. Please field some questions and I'll answer in the morning

 

[Enigma_87]

Went with @Moby with a slight margin.

Physio have done great and no issues with his formation or team. On the pitch there are 2 one sided battles IMO for each side - Moby with Zico against Elst and Littbarski and Neeskens/Demyanenko overloading that right flank and Pearce.

Midfields are generally as good as it gets considering the pool and Souness/Lerby as a pairing would give Valderrama/Neeskens a tough game.

Probably the two teams would share possession and what edges it for me is the Zico/Tostao pairing with Tostao having probably the better game than Careca here.

Not much to separate the sides, both quality defences, probably the best out of the draft so far I've seen.

 

[Moby]

Nice pic, did you make it yourself, @Moby?

Also, love the graphic @Moby -great new style!

That graphic is really cool @Moby

Cheers, I found a really random formation builder while trawling the interwebz late at night called planet.training and thought of trying it out. It is actually a bit buggy in some things and I couldn't actually save the image at the end and had to take a screenshot but most of the tools while making the formation worked fine. There's some variety of stuff on there and I found it a bit refreshing compared to some other builders. The one I used was the one embedded on this link: http://www.thefalse9.com/2016/10/football-tactics-creator-formations-training-coach.html

Looks like Vogts taking a knee, it really has become a global phenomena.

 

[Moby]

Regarding the game, let me start with the midfield battle as it looks a bit overlooked so far:

Two strong midfields with players complimenting each other, I would say I am happy to face a midfield without an out and out number 10, given I don't field a particular DM or an anchor man who would have been needed to man mark or plug the hole in front of my defense, I acknowledge the forward forays of Valderrama and Neeskens, but the former's playing style was very much of a central playmaker who had a great passing range had his action zone around the middle of the pitch. That shape really suits my trio in terms of the battle. Both Souness and Lerby are complete all round central midfielders who should both be contributing on both sides of the pitch and having to deal with central offensive threats that allow them to retain those areas would allow them to really be in their element here.

As a duo, Souness and Lerby are right in the face of Valderrama and Neeskens here, and even on a 1v1 level (even though neither midfields is on a man marking style) but Souness is well places to cut off the supply from the Colombian given he is better defensively and can provide the closing down, tactical intelligence and reading of the game and brutal tenacity in that area while Lerby will find it better to combat with Neeskens with both being two absolutely fiery box to box midfielders. Lerby's defensive work on the left will be very much in the same area where Neeskens makes his runs (on his right) and that is again something that would come natural to the Dane.

That was about how in terms of playing style my midfield is well suited to match his, in terms of quality, I can see some considering Neeskens edging over Lerby but the evidence for the Dane at his peak is quite strong, and I don't see him shying away from any battle against Neeskens here. Especially defensively where Lerby is more than capable of providing workrate, stamina, willingness and mental toughness to give him a run for his money all day. I mean, this is a man who has played two matches in one day and what not. And as good as Valderrama is on the ball, the Scot has the experience of dominating such creative presences of the opposition at the highest stage time and again and I would expect him to do the job here with all due respect for the Colombian icon.

"During a qualifying match against Ireland on 13 November 1985, Lerby left in the 58th minute as he had to catch a private jet to fly back to Germany to play, as a substitute, for his club Bayern Munich in a cup match on the same day," writes Christian. "On that busy day, his country won 4-1 in Dublin while his club drew 1-1 in Bochum."

That is till we talk about the wild card here: Zico. Great post regarding Franky and his standing in Belgian football, but here he is up against the absolute top tier of attacking midfielders the game has ever seen, one who has another tremendous attacking forward in tandem with him to both benfit from his creativity as well as provide him with constant opportunities to score and get the best out of a Zico's goalscoring ability which is absolutely elite for an attacking midfielder. That, added with the options out wide who would happily combine with him or stretch the opposition creating space for him and a massive platform behind him that I just described above and no shortage of players who would be constantly picking him out in the likes of Scirea, Lerby, Souness, he would be an absolute nightmare for any midfield that would have come against him, in all honesty.

I have picked the team and set it up for him to absolutely shine and dominate the attacking phase constantly in the multitude of ways including free kicks and set pieces which given the pace, skill and trickery of Zico, Tostao, Futre and Houseman will definitely be presented to him many times in the game and he isn't going to say no to smashing one in from a dead ball situation from close range. It will require a superhuman effort from the Belgian to have a decent hold on him here and not allow him to impact the game in the most meaningful ways and he should in most instance come out as the man of the match in this game. That is a massive advantage for me right at the heart of the game.

 

[Physiocrat]

What Moby writes about Neeskens and Valderrama vs Lerby and Souness is broadly accurate. However it ignores the issue of whether or not Futre will actually defend or be any good at it?

@Moby Will Futre defend and if so will he be any good at it?

If he doesn't it will mess up Moby's defensive shape as Lerby will be very preoccupied with Littbarski and Demanyenko. This then provides much more space for Valderrama to exploit. Without a solid shape I think it difficult for Souness to contain him especially as Barnes can come more centrally too. This is a structural problem which definitely provides openings for me to score.

Whilst Franky is not a shiny GOAT, he is in a solid defensive shape whose shape will be maintained and close gaps for Zico to operate. And if he plays through Tostao or one-twos it he is up against Zenga who was an incredible shot stopper. If Careca is through he faces Taffarel - a solid keeper but I definitely have the edge and in tight games, keepers can win you it.

 

[Physiocrat]

@Gio @Invictus @Edgar Allan Pillow @Ecstatic @Theon

Please vote/ reconsider your votes based on the discussion.

I still think Futre's lack of the defendin is the elephant in the room

 

[Moby]

Please vote/ reconsider your votes based on the discussion.

Will post a couple of more thoughts shortly.

 

[Moby]

Given both teams sport strong backlines I feel I must point out the impact both the attacks will have against their respective defenses and how that will influence the game.

As already pointed out, Physio here has opted for a front 3 with a strong engine in the middle with a couple of creative central midfielders. Given their style of play, a lot of impotus would lie on the two wingers to create in-roads from out wide banking quite often on their individual ability and isolated plays. I have already touched upon the match up that is Vogts against Barnes, again not trying to hint that Barnes is the only creative outlet whatsoever, but he's still a massive part of the unit and in a scenario where Vogts gets a good handle on him, which with all due respect to the winger I would expect Vogts to get a good handle on him, it will definitely dent or blunt that attack a bit. If his attack was more fluid or had the capacity of taking Barnes out of that zone Vogts is marshalling then it could have been helped but here Barnes is pretty much destined to run into Vogts the whole game.

In the middle, no doubt Careca is a fine striker and a bit underrated and it is good to see him here, but I would have liked to see him in a strike force with a central creative partner like was the case with him at Napoli and they formed the Ma-Gi-Ca trio, however the role he is playing here is more suited to someone like a Didier Drogba or a proper battering ram who would at least occupy and take apart the central defenders, that would be difficult to envisage here as not only does he seem a bit isolated but he is also against a top class central defensive pairing of Paul McGrath and Gaetano Scirea. It's a CB duo of absolutely elite quality and combination of abilities that would capture most threats thrown at them but an isolated Careca could defeinitely be handled here.

All these are of course small margins but in a tight game that is what really makes the difference and at the risk of calling it toothless, I am struggling to see where exactly the goals are coming from with a 1-up-front strategy where the primary goalscorer is well and truly under the wraps against two massive defensive presences and the rest of the team while capable of providing the service (with the plans to manage that service both from Barnes and the midfield having being discussed above) aren't exactly going to be much cop in that regard. And goals is what any team needs regardless of whatever else they do.

 

[Gio]

Haven't had a chance to look at this in detail. Disagree with the earlier comment that Physio would rely on Barnes/Littbarski for creativity - with Valderrama and Neeskens there, as well as the overlapping Demyanenko, I think there's a number of routes to goal. That said, leaning towards Moby based mostly on Zico and the general strength of the spine. Not enough to vote though at this point.

 

[Physiocrat]

Careca won't be as isolated as you imply. With Littbarski cutting in and support from the midfield, especially Valderrama, I really don't see the issue. Further, since I'm not playing very direct he will have players around him when he receives the ball. Certainly your CBs are excellent but Littbarski moving in the gap between Pearce and McGrath will still cause you problems especially with Demyanenko on the overlap. Barnes will certainly have a tough time against Vogts but he can move more centrally which could cause a problem with your lack of defensive shape. With regards goals Littbarski was a 1 in 2 player at his peak and Barnes chipped in 10 goals a season - he'd get more in this setup with relatively defensive responsibility and a higher average position.

Still the major point you haven't answered is Futre's lack of tracking back. It just pulls apart your defensive shape with Lerby going wide creating loads of space for Valderrama, Neeskens and to some extent Barnes who is comfortable more centrally. All three are pretty creative players and Careca and Littbarski are good goalscorers. Whilst it is true you have great creativity and goals in you, I'm in a better position to exploit it. I genuinely believe I'd win this 2-1.

 

[Physiocrat]

@antohan @Balu @Tuppet

Please vote

 

[Physiocrat]

Well played Moby.

I was surprised I passed the first round primarily because I cocked up my second pick. Cubillas played one season with Figueroa at the powerhouse Fort Lauderdale Strikers. Probably good for me however as I would have ended up with a Pep style midfield three of Valderrama, Rivelino and Franky.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Sorry Physio was out if connectivity all day. Couldn't read discussions at all.

 

[Gio]

Still the major point you haven't answered is Futre's lack of tracking back. It just pulls apart your defensive shape with Lerby going wide creating loads of space for Valderrama, Neeskens and to some extent Barnes who is comfortable more centrally. All three are pretty creative players and Careca and Littbarski are good goalscorers. Whilst it is true you have great creativity and goals in you, I'm in a better position to exploit it. I genuinely believe I'd win this 2-1.

Couldn't split you both in the end. On one side Zico against Elst was somewhat of a mismatch. But I rate Demyanenko quite highly and agreed that, with Littbarski already causing problems for Pearce, an onrushing, untracked Demyanenko could be quite compelling.

 

[Physiocrat]

Couldn't split you both in the end. On one side Zico against Elst was somewhat of a mismatch. But I rate Demyanenko quite highly and agreed that, with Littbarski already causing problems for Pearce, an onrushing, untracked Demyanenko could be quite compelling.

That's fair enough. Do you think Futre would have put a defensive shift in? Moby never responded to that point. I think without it his defensive shape is screwed as Lerby will be pulled wide constantly

 

[Physiocrat]

Sorry Physio was out if connectivity all day. Couldn't read discussions at all.

No problem. Thanks for responding.

 

[Ecstatic]

Have a draft of my reply. Will finish it later

 

[Gio]

That's fair enough. Do you think Futre would have put a defensive shift in? Moby never responded to that point. I think without it his defensive shape is screwed as Lerby will be pulled wide constantly

Probably not to be honest, but could be corrected by somebody who knew him better. Agreed, it was an important tactical point.

 

[Enigma_87]

That's fair enough. Do you think Futre would have put a defensive shift in? Moby never responded to that point. I think without it his defensive shape is screwed as Lerby will be pulled wide constantly

If we are going by his Atletico form(have no clue whether he was in the same role for Porto) the answer is rather no.

Him, Schuster and Manolo was really impressive in attack with Schuster in more deep role spraying passes and controlling games.

Not that I followed Futre closely mind, only watched games because of Schuster, but him and Manolo were in a free roles most of the time usually either of them playing like a SS. Out of Manolo/Futre I'd say the former had more defensive duties and was also playing central midfield from time to time from what I saw.

Manolo/Futre also acted as an attacking duo (a bit like Forlan/Kun) in some games without a designated CF and I think even started like that in one of the back to back Copa del Rey finals they won.

 

[antohan]

That's fair enough. Do you think Futre would have put a defensive shift in? Moby never responded to that point. I think without it his defensive shape is screwed as Lerby will be pulled wide constantly

No

 

[antohan]

Quick scan tells me I'd find it hard to vote against Moby

 

[Physiocrat]

If we are going by his Atletico form(have no clue whether he was in the same role for Porto) the answer is rather no.

Him, Schuster and Manolo was really impressive in attack with Schuster in more deep role spraying passes and controlling games.

Not that I followed Futre closely mind, only watched games because of Schuster, but him and Manolo were in a free roles most of the time usually either of them playing like a SS. Out of Manolo/Futre I'd say the former had more defensive duties and was also playing central midfield from time to time from what I saw.

Manolo/Futre also acted as an attacking duo (a bit like Forlan/Kun) in some games without a designated CF and I think even started like that in one of the back to back Copa del Rey finals they won.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Enigma_87]

Thanks for the info.

Cheers mate.

Going by the write up I don't think Moby has instructed his wingers to track back tho or have them doing much of a defensive job and with Vogts/Scirea/McGrath trio most of the time at the back, protected by Souness/Lerby core should be enough most of the time defensively, whilst Zico/Houseman/Futre would probably just attack the first man when off the ball.

Against a 4-3-3 I think it wouldn't expose his midfield and left side(which Lerby most likely would also cover) to a such extend compared to a 4-2-3-1 when he's facing an attacking midfielder or classic #10 like Zico. Valderrama is one of my favorite underrated midfielders of all time, but not the explosive type with the ball who would tilt it in your favor I think.

Fine margins tho and was tough to separate both sides.

 

[Physiocrat]

Cheers mate.

Going by the write up I don't think Moby has instructed his wingers to track back tho or have them doing much of a defensive job and with Vogts/Scirea/McGrath trio most of the time at the back, protected by Souness/Lerby core should be enough most of the time defensively, whilst Zico/Houseman/Futre would probably just attack the first man when off the ball.

Against a 4-3-3 I think it wouldn't expose his midfield and left side(which Lerby most likely would also cover) to a such extend compared to a 4-2-3-1 when he's facing an attacking midfielder or classic #10 like Zico. Valderrama is one of my favorite underrated midfielders of all time, but not the explosive type with the ball who would tilt it in your favor I think.

Fine margins tho and was tough to separate both sides.

That's a reasonable assessment. My main annoyance was I kept banging on about it and nobody mentioned it or explained why it wasn't a huge problem.

 

[Ecstatic]

Thougts in the disorder

- Tostao would suffer against the powerful Figueroa/Ruggeri
- Pearce a burden but Moby is lucky because Littbarski who isn't really a pure winger, rather somebody like Hassler who likes to operate at the centre at times
- Vogts a beast to contain Barnes
- I can see Houseman shine
- I prefer Careca with a support striker
- I prefer Valderrama with players sharing the same "philosophy"t: say players like clodoaldo, cueto, velasquez...
- Zico MOTM

2 greats teams but at the end, the feeling that the white pele would benefit from a favourable environment

 

[Physiocrat]

Thougts in the disorder

- Tostao would suffer against the powerful Figueroa/Ruggeri
- Pearce a burden but Moby is lucky because Littbarski who isn't really a pure winger, rather somebody like Hassler who likes to operate at the centre at times
- Vogts a beast to contain Barnes
- I can see Houseman shine
- I prefer Careca with a support striker
- I prefer Valderrama with players sharing the same "philosophy"t: say players like clodoaldo, cueto, velasquez...
- Zico MOTM

2 greats teams but at the end, the feeling that the white pele would benefit from a favourable environment

Thanks for the thoughts.