I had one which looked like this before...but then had a rare moment of sensibility and kept it simple. Cruyff's role needs no explanation and a flexible set up gets the best out of him. Surrounded by creative players in Balakov, Cerezo and Bettega!
Synth Draft: R1- EAP/RT vs Ecstatic
- Thread starter Physiocrat
- Start date
Yeah I have him as balanced full back as well, but slightly on the defensive side. He can join the attack of course but I don't consider him a particularly great crosser or that good in the build up. Strong, tall lad who can occasionally find the net, but IMO he's a bit like Felipe Luis stylistically.
Think @Pat_Mustard can correct me if I'm wrong as from memory I think he knows more about him than me.
The real EAP is back: bettega #10I had one which looked like this before...but then had a rare moment of sensibility and kept it simple. Cruyff's role needs no explanation and a flexible set up gets the best out of him. Surrounded by creative players in Balakov, Cerezo and Bettega!
A very good defender throughout career (coming towards the end when he came to United tbh) and a solid RB in a great Forest team. Capable on the ball and not glued to RB but not sure I'd see him as an attacking FB though or more so than Neville (who pushed up quite a lot - good pship with Beckham).
I agree (though the Neville comparison was a bit arbitary). I had him as a balanced 4-4-2 fullback and he fits my set-up her, imo. I have Ondrus/Blind in bench and if I was playing a back 3, then maybe I can look for a more attacking fullback, but in flat back 4, I like Viv.
Few thoughts.
On Junior
I feel like your descriptions aren't quite capturing his complete game. I understand your points but I don't feel like your posts reflect the player I watch.
Maybe you've seen more of him in the mid 80s when he was in Serie A rather than at Flamengo?
For Flamengo, his playstyle contained much more variety than I feel your posts give him credit for. He did make overlapping runs on the left flank whenever that opportunity presented itself. Its true that in the absolute final parts of the pitch he preferred to cut inside and pass or shoot rather than touchline cross but I don't see that as an problem but rather a great opportunity for synergy with Michael Laudrup. Junior played superbly with Zico so I see no reason he couldn't play with Laudrup since they are occupying different spaces on the pitch in different phases. Its like if you looked at a heat map, sure they might appear to overlap but in real time, they aren't going to 'get in each other's way' at all in my opinion.
On Width
You don't need a touchline hugging crosser to stretch a defense width-wise. For example Junior here is perfectly situated to constantly be stretching your team with having to run down the line. He doesn't have to take Viv to the outside (although he certainly is capable and willing to do just that). It's the threat of a player on the opposite side that stretches a defense.
Think of it like this:
Junior receives a pass in the inside left channel. He has time on the ball because your tactic only has Viv on that flank and Viv likely won't be man marking Junior that high up the pitch. So your defense is going to have to shift over to that flank to cover Junior having the ball no matter that he isn't a touchline hugging crosser. Your defense still has to shift leaving space on the opposite flank that Junior's superb passing range can exploit. Junior was superb at stretching defenses for width in his early years at Flamengo. So its just not accurate to claim he is always going to cut inside at all times. He is not a dog chasing a bone fam! (had to add the fam apologies
His preference to cut in and pass rather than cross doesn't negate the fact that over most phases and most sections of the pitch he is definitely a threat to stretch the pitch.
The issue is Viv isn't really an offensive right-back and Roth isn't really the most suited player to animate your right flank.
So, Cruyff will have to spend a lot of time on the right (restricted role) to make your team balanced unless you play an ambiguity game.
European Cup Finals 74 & 75
Wow. I am going to assume you simply forgot about Nilton Santos and only consider Rodriguez Andrade as a RB?
For me I also have Marinho Chagas, Leonardo, Tarantini above Branco with Pavoni and Ze Roberto on the same level but objectively all those could be considered equals.
I think you are taking this the wrong way. I said to the effect that his speciality was making plays from left midfield. No idea why you read it like I called him a one trick pony. Yes, I watched available videos of him in Italy (where he played left midfield mostly) and some touches compilations from Flamengo/Brazil.
Secondly I find the concept of fullback able to stretch opponent's defence a bit odd per se. For example, a winger or wide forward may occupy spaces behind a fullback stretching the CBs and creating spaces. I'm a bit unclear on how Junior will stretch my defence here. If you refer to Viv moving to handle when Junior comes out, it' what here's there for. I wouldn't call that stretching a defence. Maybe we are just arguing on semantics here but I just lost track of what we started arguing about here
Yeah. Brain freeze. How did I ever miss him!I don't know enough about Chagas and Tarantini...but I rate him above Leonardo and Ze Roberto.
It was mostly Archie Gemmill tucking in at left midfield to counter for opponents wingers. Slight above or below Neville (depends on each person's rating) is about par for the course for him. He's not Gentile/Vogts type player. A balanced fullback is what I need. The team was not designed for a wingback and I don't need one. He had a tendency to participate in attack. The system he played in constrained attacking runs from fullbacks and in a more modern team, his attacking instincts would have been better, imo.
And you are underestimating Roth. He was a right midfielder in mould of Effenberg (though a shade less as good). Good workrate, physicality and able to contribute to attack. He's no Makelele type.
And @Ecstatic How would your defence face off against my attack? Both Weah and Cruyff are Balon d'or winners and Bettega was placed 4th. And the interactivity between my forward line will be difficult to track. Chivadze not famed for pace and with Angloma also on same side, I suspect Bettega will have a good game!
Well I am not trying to argue so much as just ramble onI think you are taking this the wrong way. I said to the effect that his speciality was making plays from left midfield. No idea why you read it like I called him a one trick pony. Yes, I watched available videos of him in Italy (where he played left midfield mostly) and some touches compilations from Flamengo/Brazil.
Secondly I find the concept of fullback able to stretch opponent's defence a bit odd per se. For example, a winger or wide forward may occupy spaces behind a fullback stretching the CBs and creating spaces. I'm a bit unclear on how Junior will stretch my defence here. If you refer to Viv moving to handle when Junior comes out, it' what here's there for. I wouldn't call that stretching a defence. Maybe we are just arguing on semantics here but I just lost track of what we started arguing about here
Junior is one of those players like Breitner as you mention that just fascinates me. They have so much different qualities to their game I just find it hard to describe them in a twitter character limit phrase ya know? I could watch Junior and Breitner all day.
Oh, and before I go, its actually @Ecstatic's other side of the pitch that I think you have the advantage. Angloma and Chivadze didn't even get profiles in the OP , they must be scared of Cruijff and Bettega
I really don't underestimate* Roth and have the feeling he's a top player: I just say that Cruyff is the only one potential threat on your right flank.
It was mostly Archie Gemmill tucking in at left midfield to counter for opponents wingers. Slight above or below Neville (depends on each person's rating) is about par for the course for him. He's not Gentile/Vogts type player. A balanced fullback is what I need. The team was not designed for a wingback and I don't need one. He had a tendency to participate in attack. The system he played in constrained attacking runs from fullbacks and in a more modern team, his attacking instincts would have been better, imo.
And you are underestimating Roth. He was a right midfielder in mould of Effenberg (though a shade less as good). Good workrate, physicality and able to contribute to attack. He's no Makelele type.
To be honest, I surely underestimate Bettega in this tactical configuration (excellent on the air, collective player but right-footed) and Weah (the PSG fan in me find similarities with the another PSG player Okocha: spectacular but not reliable week after week)
** even if he has 4 caps for West Germany only
The rule says: limit of 2500 characters in the OPWell I am not trying to argue so much as just ramble on
Junior is one of those players like Breitner as you mention that just fascinates me. They have so much different qualities to their game I just find it hard to describe them in a twitter character limit phrase ya know? I could watch Junior and Breitner all day.
Oh, and before I go, its actually @Ecstatic's other side of the pitch that I think you have the advantage. Angloma and Chivadze didn't even get profiles in the OP , they must be scared of Cruijff and Bettega
Good contribution about Leo Junior.
There’s no denying that the poster boy of Bulgarian football is Hristo Stoichkov.Yet while Stoichkov was the face of Bulgarian football, Krasimir Balakov was its beating heart. In helping to drag a nation from the bowels of footballing anonymity into the spotlight of a world cup semi final, Balakov established himself as one of the finest playmakers of his generation.
His brazilian style of play, his excellent technique, his precise and powerful shots from wide range, his wicked free-kicks and his ability to lead and conduct a game make him a number 10 in the line of Michel Platini or Diego Maradona.Player with excellent mixture of pace, dribbling, accurate passes, good shooting, great vision and excellent set piece taker.
In some ways, Balakov appears to be almost a caricature of your typical number 10. A headstrong figure who locked horns at various intervals with coaches and team mates alike in his day, his artistic sensibilities are reflected off the pitch by the vast and growing collection of paintings he keeps in a gallery in a wing of his house. The Bulgarian ticks all of the prime playmaker boxes – vision, skill, astonishing technique and the audacity to try what others wouldn’t dare to attempt. He also possessed a veritable Swiss army knife of a left foot, as capable of powering home a high velocity free kick from 30 yards as subtly unlocking illustrious defences with a stunning through ball.Yet while many number 10s founder and fade as age catches up with them, or fail to adapt on moving to a different league, Balakov’s strength and work rate enabled him to make the switch effortlessly from Portugal to the more robust Bundesliga, despite being 29 by the time he arrived in Germany in the spring of 1995, and he continued to be the main man for club and country well into his 30s.Jonathan Wilson said:
During the mid-nineties, Krasmir Balakov, Geovanni Elber and Fredi Bobic formed the famed “magic triangle” at Stuttgart. The trio is still talked about in hushed tones at the Mercedes-Benz Arena. Floating just behind the strikers, Balakov was the focal point, the “head of the triangle” who would make the bullets for the brawny yet skillful combo of Elber and Bobic. The trio shared an ability to combine almost telepathically, delighting fans and neutrals alike with one touch passing and brilliantly intricate, devil-may-care attacking play.
To prepare the remake draft, I watched Bettega with Juventus, which isn't prime Bettega. That said, I watched all his goals in Serie A during his carreer: excellent on the air. His role is unclear here: the arrows suggests he can play in a "Boniek way", strange I'd say when we know he's right-footed
The arrow formation was something that I played around but realized was too confusing. It was meant to highlight his ability to switch flanks with Cruyff.
Romario, Laudrup, Eto'o (more than 400 goals in his career) never won the Ballon d'or while some players like Rossi, Owen and Weah (less than 200 goals in his career) won it... In terms of greatness here, my top 3 is
1. Cruyjff
2. Gullit
3. Laudrup
Rush was also placed 4th in the Ballon d'or in 1984. Bettega wasn't a quick player: you are fantasizing on him
I have a back 6 + Hassler known for his high work-rate.
In theory, I could be biased but I don't see how you can block the powerful Gullit
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See u tomorrow
Onenil has already listed those who can be considered better than him or on a similar level, and I'd add Marcelo as well. I don't consider him as shite defensively, but he wasn't notably great at it either. I did acknowledge Balakov's industry in my initial post too, and Forster's defnesive excellence is a valid point. However, I wouldn't underestimate Gullit's capacity to skin a full back with pace and trickery as he was superb at it, and I'm assuming the arrow @Ecstatic has placed on him means he will be tasked with providing width at times.
I only caught the end of his career tbh. @oneniltothearsenal picked him for me in the Monopoly Draft I think, and I didn't end up watching much of him beyond some brief highlights, but your description sounds fair to me. Excellent defensively, fairly competent going forward sounds about right. He is rated very highly by some people who watched him regularly. Peterstorey was a very good poster on the Caf who knew his football despite his penchant for strong opinions and WUMery, and he raved about him:
Peterstorey was a very good poster on the Caf who knew his football despite his penchant for strong opinions and WUMery, and he raved about him:
"All day long. Sagna is easily the best RB to play for Arsenal in the last 50 years except, of course, for the great Viv Anderson (best RB I've seen in the top flight by a country mile)."
He definitely had a penchant for wummery.
"All day long. Sagna is easily the best RB to play for Arsenal in the last 50 years except, of course, for the great Viv Anderson (best RB I've seen in the top flight by a country mile)."
He definitely had a penchant for wummery.
I can see that. I like him and would have gotten him if not for the blocking, but still feel Stielike would have to over work considering he has defensive duties along with the holdup play, all while Cryuff roams around.
Apart from the 'country mile' and 'attack like a winger' parts is it really that outrageous? If he wasn't around to see Armfield then the likes of Neville and Neal are the main competition unless I'm missing some blatantly obvious contenders.
Tough game to judge. Stielike has a demanding assignment anchoring that midfield against Cruyff, but he does have the protection of a three man central defence behind him. That said, I'm not sure about Belodedici and Chivadze lining up beside each other. They're both excellent on the ball, which is a good thing, but their defensive styles both seemed to tend heavily towards sweeping up behind the defensive line. On the other hand Gullit looks well set to have a good match, and there's so much creativity in that attacking midfield.
Johan Cruyff was my star player in the last draft. My understanding was he had to be part of a front 4 to get the most out of him:
- An assistant in the centre: Neeskens. I personally chose Tostao or
- Somebody on the left to stretch the opposing team and release space for Cruyff: Rensenbrink, Keiser. I chose Best and Dzajic
- Somebody on the right to stretch the opposing team and release space for Cruyff: Rep, Swart. I chose Best and Lato
What I see
- Centre: Weah isn't a mobile player laterally unlike a player like Gullit. Weah-Cruyjff would combine well though
- Left: Prime Bettega is a CF. If you want him to animate the left flank, why not? But I can't say I'm overly a fan of this scenario even if I know the right-footed player is mobile and collaborative
- Right: who?
Good to see he has a lot of freedom but to enjoy it at the most, he needs mobility around him and a more sophisticated ecosystem. Not a coincidence he is generally described as a deep-lying forward.
The feeling there is a bit of waste here
- An assistant in the centre: Neeskens. I personally chose Tostao or
- Somebody on the left to stretch the opposing team and release space for Cruyff: Rensenbrink, Keiser. I chose Best and Dzajic
- Somebody on the right to stretch the opposing team and release space for Cruyff: Rep, Swart. I chose Best and Lato
What I see
- Centre: Weah isn't a mobile player laterally unlike a player like Gullit. Weah-Cruyjff would combine well though
- Left: Prime Bettega is a CF. If you want him to animate the left flank, why not? But I can't say I'm overly a fan of this scenario even if I know the right-footed player is mobile and collaborative
- Right: who?
Good to see he has a lot of freedom but to enjoy it at the most, he needs mobility around him and a more sophisticated ecosystem. Not a coincidence he is generally described as a deep-lying forward.
The feeling there is a bit of waste here
Stielike was really a world-class defensive midfielder: 4 times La Liga Foreign Player of the Year, instrumental in the successes of Real Madrid and Borussia Mönchengladbach... With Germany, he played mainly in central defence.
European Cup Final in 77
1. Above, you can see 4 defenders while I have 5. My central defence isn't perfect but they don't play against perfect strikers I'd say
2. Leo Junior won't face a pure right-winger.
3. The players I have are relatively known but the most interesting video was about Häßler. 2 viewers so far. So, his impressive defensive contribution is certainly underestimated. I respect the decision of @Physiocrat to spoiler the suggested videos in the OP but it doesn't help. Spoiler or not, it doesn't change the required time to download an internet page.
European Cup Final in 77
1. Above, you can see 4 defenders while I have 5. My central defence isn't perfect but they don't play against perfect strikers I'd say
2. Leo Junior won't face a pure right-winger.
3. The players I have are relatively known but the most interesting video was about Häßler. 2 viewers so far. So, his impressive defensive contribution is certainly underestimated. I respect the decision of @Physiocrat to spoiler the suggested videos in the OP but it doesn't help. Spoiler or not, it doesn't change the required time to download an internet page.
@Ecstatic
You're right about download time as they are not GIFs. However it was more of a case of keeping a clean OP. Also I doubt spoilers get the vids would reduce that many from viewing them
You're right about download time as they are not GIFs. However it was more of a case of keeping a clean OP. Also I doubt spoilers get the vids would reduce that many from viewing them
I think you should read on Bettega before posting these stuff.
He played left forward for Italy with Rossi leading the line. And Right Forward for Juve with Platini taking the middle. And he's been played in exactly the same position in previous drafts.
He's always been a wide forward / support striker. I really can't find much info on him being a CF through the middle as you claim.
Reaney, I'd say myself. He had some outstanding/extreme qualities in addition to being generally solid, reliable, well suited to the system...and so forth, which is what the top RBs in the top flight have generally been, really, including Nev himself if we're being 100% honest.
Nicol, Dixon et al - much of a muchness. Excellent fits for excellent teams but hardly worthy of song as individual players in an all-time context.
You're the ruler, no problem with that!
1. You're right. Italy at the Euro 78
2. Juventus 77 for example
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I think it illustrates some key battles.
1. Is the offensive Balakov the right man to limit the impact of the tirelss Thomas Häßler? I don't think so Thomas has a unique style of play: a hard-working midfielder, creative player but also - more interestingly - he operates as a snake with an excellent ball retention to release space for the other players, which enabled Germany 90 to get the required balance and make Matthäus shine.
2. Bergomi could master Rush but Gullit is really a different story. Forster is a great stopper but the Ruud is a highly mobile & powerful forward.
Bergomi will be focused on Ian. So, a risky defensive strategy not to have a full-time back-up to cover Karl-Heinz.
3. Leo Junior will have the freedom to strengthen the midfield and combine with the everywhere at once Laudrup.
1. Is the offensive Balakov the right man to limit the impact of the tirelss Thomas Häßler? I don't think so
Thomas has a unique style of play: a hard-working midfielder, creative player but also - more interestingly - he operates as a snake with an excellent ball retention to release space for the other players, which enabled Germany 90 to get the required balance and make Matthäus shine. 2. Bergomi could master Rush but Gullit is really a different story. Forster is a great stopper but the Ruud is a highly mobile & powerful forward.
Bergomi will be focused on Ian. So, a risky defensive strategy not to have a full-time back-up to cover Karl-Heinz.
3. Leo Junior will have the freedom to strengthen the midfield and combine with the everywhere at once Laudrup.
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Asked and answered. Apart from those two (main/key) comments, 100% accurate.
(TBC, no issues with Viv, rate him (as said in other places), just he is what he is.... a v gd RB)
Not to mention Jordi, who - arguably - isn't quite the player his old man was.
I like the way you switch Johann for Jordi, lol.
What does this achieve?
It just shows Stielike having a near impossible job.
And how deep your midfield trio has to operate to negate my team.
Rush looks kinda isolated and he's a poacher with limited out if the box influence.
OMG, we might have our first draw. Never been more excited for a draft game. Everybody freeze