Test Cricket Decades Draft R1: The Cat vs crappycraperson

[Moby]

Welcome to the Test Cricket Decades Draft Round 1 match up. The two teams will be assessed based on a 3 match test series on the surfaces mentioned below. Only the test performances of the said players will be used for evaluation, no other format has any weight in the match up. The surfaces are:

1. Flat batting pitch with little help for any bowlers.
2. A greentop that aids pace bowling.
3. A slow dustbowl that aids spin bowling.

Please vote for the team that you think will prevail at the end of the series.


Team The Cat

1. Mark Taylor



7525 Test runs at 43.50 this prodigious opener will also skipper the side in view of his performances as Australian captain. Also a superb slip fielder.



2. Graeme Smith

9265 runs at 48.25. 27 test hundreds and 38 50’s. Powerful opener capable of huge scores. Another great fielder.

3. Kumar Sangakkara

12400 runs at 57.41. Batting at his usual position of 3 he averaged 60.83. Stylish but relentless batsman who compiled 38 centuries. He is also keeping wicket here with 151 wicket keeping dismissals in test cricket.

4. Doug Walters

5357 runs at 48.26 including 15 centuries and two double hundreds. He his batting here at 4 where he averaged just over 50.

5. Douglas Jardine

Infamous batsman who averaged 48.0 in test cricket. An accumulator rather than a stroke maker he will keep watch over the tail.

6. Colin Bland

South African who averaged 49.09 in test cricket. Generally regarded as the best cover fieldsman of all time able to turn the course of matches with his fielding ability.

7. Maurice Tate



England’s test bowling attack leader with 155 wickets at 26.16. Took 38 wickets in the 1924/25 tour a record that still stands for an Englishman in Australia. He was a true all-rounder who was a very powerful batsman averaging over 25 despite his figures trailing off drastically in his later years. Incredibly useful for this draft format as he could bowl both pace and spin.



8. John ‘Jack’ Cowie



Averaged 21.53 with the ball in tests of which he was limited in opportunities the fast-medium bowler was referenced in Wisden of being behind only Richard Hadley as a New Zealand pace bowler.

The passage in Wisden most frequently quoted in New Zealand is a sentence by editor Wilfrid Brookes from the 1938 edition: 'Had he been an Australian, he might have been termed a wonder of the age.' This refers to Jack Cowie's efforts on the 1937 tour of England, when he took 114 wickets at 19.95. (THIS IS NOT INTENDED TO USE 1st CLASS FIGURES)

9. Jim Laker

Legendary spin bowler who took 193 wickets at 21.24. Most famous for what became known as “Laker’s Match” when taking 19 Australian wickets at Old Trafford. Laker took 46 wickets in the 1956 Ashes series to establish a still-unbroken record for a five-match test series between England and Australia

10. Jeff Thomson

Widely regarded as the fastest bowler of all time he was not always the most accurate but never stopped taking wickets. He took 200 wickets at an average of 28.01. He will be very useful in this draft as every side will have quality batsmen and this is just the guy to make a difference punching holes in the batting orders.

11. Glenn McGrath

Arguably the best pace bowler of all time McGrath was relentless. He had the lot – pace, accuracy, aggression and took 563 test wickets at 21.64. The perfect foil for his opening partner here he will give nothing away and target every batsman.


Team Crappy

Team Crappy

Batting

Batting line up has great depth but also has a very solid top 5 which each capable of putting up a big score. Boycott needs no introduction, neither should Morris who was part of the Oz invincibles. Border was one of the best batsmen of his generation and is surrounded by the english duo. Leyland, wisden cricketer of the year in 1929, performed most effectively against the best teams and bowlers, and in difficult situations; his Test batting record is better than his first-class figures, and against Australia his average is even higher. Cowdrey was a prolific batsmen scoring bundles of runes at all positions in the middle order. Dhoni, Mankad, Pollock and Warne provide great depth to the batting. The first 3 are capable of playing in long parternships as well.

Bowling

Bowling is lead by the greatest spinner of all time - Warne. Leading the attack on pace front are Pollock and Waqar. Younis is perhaps a contender for one of the best swing bowlers of all time, he was completely unplayable in any conditions that might have favored swing even a little .Pollock was a complete bowler who could trouble batsmen on any surface. Obvious odd one out is George Francis. He got to play Windies' inaurgal test but was past his peak. His exploits in Windies' England tour of 1923 garned many a praise. The review of the 1923 tour in Wisden Cricketers' Almanack's 1924 edition singled Francis out for praise as "an excellent fast bowler of quite an old-fashioned type". Rounding off the attack is Mankad as another spin option while Border can also be used as a part time bowler.

 

[Moby]

All the best @The Cat @crappycraperson

 

[Moby]

@Himannv @Di Maria's angel @Mani @Indnyc @prath92 @The Red Viper @Boycott @NM @harshad @KM

 

[Moby]

@Skizzo @Edgar Allan Pillow @Interval

 

[Himannv]

Sanga isn't quite the same player with the gloves. Despite this, I think @The Cat has the better team here.

Francis is just not good enough for such a key role and I think Mankad has to do more than just be the 5th bowler.

 

[Interval]

Sanga isn't quite the same player with the gloves. Despite this, I think @The Cat has the better team here.

Francis is just not good enough for such a key role and I think Mankad has to do more than just be the 5th bowler.

Crappy has 3 wc bowlers there. Yeah, Frncis isn't the same level but you would think that the front 3 would do the business considering Cat's MO is his weakness. At the same time, crappy also relies on his front 4 for big runs though he bats deeper. So his MO is also vulnerable.

@The Cat buddy, can you please provide some context to those averages. Either total runs/ wickets or the number of matches.

 

[crappycraperson]

Sanga isn't quite the same player with the gloves. Despite this, I think @The Cat has the better team here.

Francis is just not good enough for such a key role and I think Mankad has to do more than just be the 5th bowler.

I doubt any fourth bowler would make a big impact with side that has Warne, Waqar and Pollock. Francis is fine as a fourth bowler with those bowling options especially when you consider that Mankad would bowl a lot on 2 of the pitches in this series - flat and dustbowl. If you had to choose a joint bowling attack of 4 from the two squads, all 3 of my best ones would make it and only McGrath would make it from his.

 

[crappycraperson]

Crappy has 3 wc bowlers there. Yeah, Frncis isn't the same level but you would think that the front 3 would do the business considering Cat's MO is his weakness. At the same time, crappy also relies on his front 4 for big runs though he bats deeper. So his MO is also vulnerable.

@The Cat buddy, can you please provide some context to those averages. Either total runs/ wickets or the number of matches.

I have Cowdrey at 5. He has 50+ innings there, average of 49+ and also 6 centuries. So for big innings I would rely on top 5. For support, even Warne can stay at the crease for long time.

Cat's batting biggest problem is that as a keeper Sanga's average is just 40.48. Basically his best batsman should be viewed with a different prism for this match.

His tail after tate is like India's from Perth match.

 

[The Cat]

Crappy has 3 wc bowlers there. Yeah, Frncis isn't the same level but you would think that the front 3 would do the business considering Cat's MO is his weakness. At the same time, crappy also relies on his front 4 for big runs though he bats deeper. So his MO is also vulnerable.

@The Cat buddy, can you please provide some context to those averages. Either total runs/ wickets or the number of matches.

Here's a bit more:

In an 18-year first-class career between 1932 and 1950 Cowie played 86 matches - 44 of them on his two England tours, 1937 and 1949. Between those years, Cowie played in all NZ's Tests - nine of them. His cricket nickname was 'Bull' and he was a strong-willed character. So he didn't play that many but his opportunities were very limited.

Here are Jardine's stats:

Matches 22 Runs 1296 HS 127.

Colin Bland 1669 runs in 21 Tests. Appearances limited due to playing for South Africa during this period.

 

[Moby]

Went with The Cat as his bowling attack is absolutely brilliant.

McGrath and Thomson is a scary ATG opening duo that complements each other perfectly. Laker is an ATG spinner and then he has Cowie and Tate which is just brutal in addition to those three. That is one relentless attacking force which will trouble any batting line up in the draft.

 

[Interval]

@Moby Yeah, but you also have to look at the bowling line ups in context of the batsmen. My concern is that Cats batting line up ends at 6. Which can be scary considering the bowlers that crappy has.

 

[Mani]

Crappy got better batting unit of the two as for as Cat is concern his LMO is the biggest weakness to me.

As for bowling goes Cat got 4 good bowlers and I'm not rating bowler Cowie who got only 9 games to his name, you can get away with batsmen with limited games as you got other batsmen to cover you up unless its specialist role like opener or one down batsmen who require certain skill set to face to pace attack but bowling or WK is specialist role which need special attention.Having said all I still feel Cat Pace attack is better than Crappy but with is Ace pick Warne crappy nails this tie, he's brilliant on any wicket, pitch assist pace or spin its immaterial to him, he's simply amazing.Warne tilts this in favour of Crappy to me.

 

[Moby]

@Moby Yeah, but you also have to look at the bowling line ups in context of the batsmen. My concern is that Cats batting line up ends at 6. Which can be scary considering the bowlers that crappy has.

Tate and Cowie are decent bats and a lot of teams field token keepers and bowling all rounders in those positions so I don't think that's far out of the norm. Having 6 specialist bats is usually more than enough for me, as against these bowling attacks almost all lower orders would anyway fail and won't contribute that much. So most teams would anyway depend entirely on their top 6 unless you have someone like Gilchrist at 7.

 

[Interval]

Fair argument

 

[crappycraperson]

I hope people do not overlook Sanga's vast difference in records as a keeper and as just a pure batsman. As a keeper he averages 40 while as a batsman 60+. That is a big blow to a solid member of Cat's batting line up, stats absolutely back that up.

 

[crappycraperson]

Tate and Cowie are decent bats and a lot of teams field token keepers and bowling all rounders in those positions so I don't think that's far out of the norm. Having 6 specialist bats is usually more than enough for me, as against these bowling attacks almost all lower orders would anyway fail and won't contribute that much. So most teams would anyway depend entirely on their top 6 unless you have someone like Gilchrist at 7.

Nothing to suggest, Cowie is a decent bat. Even his FC average as a batsman was 10. No one would consider Waqar a decent bat when he has better average than Cowie in tests and FC.

Problem for cat is that he has an average all rounder at 7 (in terms of batting) and no. 10s and 11s from 7 onwards. Even if every team does not need premium all rounders, you need atleast a couple of bowlers in tail that can bat. Even likes of Marshall and Holding have decent test batting records.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

As we approach the SSC in Colombo, both teams will be feeling fairly comfortable batting here. One of the flattest wickets on the planet and both will have memories of when Sri Lanka famously scored 900 here. Crappy wins the toss, bats first, scores a huge total. Sangakkara ensures to take advantage of conditions hes so familiar with and wrecks Crappys bowling order. Going into the last few days, Crappys batting is far too strong for the The Cats and I imagine, by day 5, there'll be some wear and tear that Shane Warne will take advantage of. 1-0 to @crappycraperson.

Trent Bridge, our second venue, rain around, green pitch and thus the red cherry is moving all over the place. Crappy wins the toss and bowls first. Pollock and Younis absolutely destroy the Cats batting order. With McGrath and Thomson on the opposition team, Crappys team find it just as difficult to bat on the green top. However, with the number of English players in the line up accustomed to the swinging and seaming conditions, Crappys team take the lead in the match. The pitch shows no signs up easing up into the second innings. Smith and Sanga stand strong, both have shown that they're more than capable of batting in these bowler friendly conditions. I think @The Cat's bowling depth proves a little too strong for @crappycraperson and squares the series at 1-1.

Bangalore provides the venue for the last match - Warne vs Laker. Two all time great spinners licking their lips at the prospect of bowling on a dust bowl. Vinoo Mankad looking to help Shane Warne. As the match goes on and the pitch deteriorates, I think Warne and Mankad will be too much to handle for @The Cat 's team. Both batting line ups seem to be more than capable in these conditions so in the end, I've gone for the team that has the 2nd greatest spinner of all time with a handy part timer.

@crappycraperson wins 2-1.

 

[The Cat]

I think you are making too much of Sanga's early career. He improved right up to the finish and is batting here in his favoured position at 3.

 

[Himannv]

Crappy has 3 wc bowlers there. Yeah, Frncis isn't the same level but you would think that the front 3 would do the business considering Cat's MO is his weakness. At the same time, crappy also relies on his front 4 for big runs though he bats deeper. So his MO is also vulnerable.

@The Cat buddy, can you please provide some context to those averages. Either total runs/ wickets or the number of matches.

I think Warne gives him an advantage since you expect him to spin the ball regardless of the turf. Having said that, two front line seamers is not enough on a green pitch. Bowlers win matches and Francis is a poor pick.

I doubt any fourth bowler would make a big impact with side that has Warne, Waqar and Pollock. Francis is fine as a fourth bowler with those bowling options especially when you consider that Mankad would bowl a lot on 2 of the pitches in this series - flat and dustbowl. If you had to choose a joint bowling attack of 4 from the two squads, all 3 of my best ones would make it and only McGrath would make it from his.

I reckon you need 4 frontline bowlers. Mankad is not quite the right option for 4th bowler unless it's a spin friendly turf. On a green pitch, McGrath, Thomson, Tate, and Cowie are simply a much better attack than what you have.

I think your batting is better than his since he's using Sanga as a keeper, so it's close.

 

[crappycraperson]

I think you are making too much of Sanga's early career. He improved right up to the finish and is batting here in his favoured position at 3.

Show me how? His record is clear cut. As a keeper he averages 40 only. If he didn't keep late on then that has to be taken account into his batting record. You can't realistically argue that keeping isn't going to impact his batting

 

[The Cat]

Show me how? His record is clear cut. As a keeper he averages 40 only. If he didn't keep late on then that has to be taken account into his batting record. You can't realistically argue that keeping isn't going to impact his batting

I can argue that his figures improved right throughout his career though and if he'd carried on keeping his batting record as a keeper would also have improved.

His figures batting at no3 are insane.

 

[Himannv]

I think you are making too much of Sanga's early career. He improved right up to the finish and is batting here in his favoured position at 3.

Can't really agree with that. There seemed an obvious marked improvement once he gave up the gloves. He was a good bat when he had keeping duties but he was an ATG once he gave them up.

 

[The Cat]

Also you don't have enough in your bowling attack for me you are one short.

 

[The Cat]

Looks like this could be a very close one.

Good luck @crappycraperson

 

[harshad]

Warne swings it for me.

 

[Moby]

Warne swings it for me.

He's better as a spin bowler to be honest.

 

[NM]

The Cat wins this. Crappy has a brilliant team but is a class bowler short imo. 3 class bowlers works in most test matches, but not in all time drafts

 

[The Cat]

He's better as a spin bowler to be honest.

 

[The Cat]

The Cat wins this. Crappy has a brilliant team but is a class bowler short imo. 3 class bowlers works in most test matches, but not in all time drafts

This is my way of thinking. All these sides are going to have fantastic batting. You need better depth in the bowling department to make a difference. That's why I went for Thomson as well - he will go for a few but the extra pace and aggression will make a big difference. McGrath is the perfect partner for him imo.

 

[Boycott]

Erring towards Crappy. The Cat's batting appears to be one short while Crappy's bowling appears to be one short. I think on the green top Crappy wins handily and the flat track he edges for me not because of the Warne/Laker dynamic, but the Waqar/Thomson comparison.

 

[harshad]

He's better as a spin bowler to be honest.

 

[crappycraperson]

The Cat wins this. Crappy has a brilliant team but is a class bowler short imo. 3 class bowlers works in most test matches, but not in all time drafts

Do you need 30 wickets a test for all time drafts? Neither teams batting is a step above some of the good test teams. 3 great bowlers with support of 2 average one is as absolutely fine for any team. Even for cat, cowie can't be counted as a 'class' bowler on the back of 9 tests. Only diff is that Francis didn't get to play 10 official tests at his peak.

 

[crappycraperson]

Jeff Thomson is getting way overrated if people think he is anywhere close to as good as Pollock or Waqar.

 

[Himannv]

Erring towards Crappy. The Cat's batting appears to be one short while Crappy's bowling appears to be one short. I think on the green top Crappy wins handily and the flat track he edges for me not because of the Warne/Laker dynamic, but the Waqar/Thomson comparison.

Pollock and Waqar are good bowlers but they're not going to be more effective than McGrath, Thomson, Tate, Cowie, and Walters at getting the job done on a green turf. He'll have to rely on Warne turning it on an unfriendly pitch and hope those three can do the job and pick up 20 wickets more effectively than the opposition. If you factor in that Pollock and Waqar don't get much rest + the dominance of McGrath on this type of pitch, it's an easy cat win.

4 frontline bowlers is a must at this level IMO. Crappy has better batting, but bowlers win matches.

 

[The Cat]

Came across this earlier - not meant to be too relevant to this but it's a good laugh.

 

[crappycraperson]

@Interval given your posts here, an explanation post for your vote.

 

[Interval]

@crappycraperson I wanted to skip voting. actually think that this would be a draw outright with the batting track being shared by the two of you'll 50 50.

But I'm partly convinced by the lack of a good 4th bowler argument . I rate Waqar way higher than Thomson but somehow a lot of pressure will get relieved on the other end after the opening spell.

While his batting leaves a lot to be desired, what he loses in his middle order, he makes up with the extra bowler.

 

[crappycraperson]

@crappycraperson I wanted to skip voting. actually think that this would be a draw outright with the batting track being shared by the two of you'll 50 50.

But I'm partly convinced by the lack of a good 4th bowler argument . I rate Waqar way higher than Thomson but somehow a lot of pressure will get relieved on the other end after the opening spell.

While his batting leaves a lot to be desired, what he loses in his middle order, he makes up with the extra bowler.

Not convinced his batting is better than mine especially when you consider Sanga's drop as a keeper. 5th bowler is almost always useless in tests. I am surprised how highly people are rating Cowie with just 9 tests under his belt.

 

[Interval]

Not the fifth bowler. The fourth. I don't think a fifth is necessary. So he has 4 good bowlers which includes Tate. Sanga argument is fair, but even at low to mid 40s avg, I'd rate him a little higher than Leyland.

It's a toss up really. But I do agree with you that Waqar and Pollock are better than Thomson and Cowie is a non entity.

 

[crappycraperson]

BUMP.

Still maintain my bowling is better than his and batting wise I have more depth.