Did he not integrate kane and ali as well? I honestly thought he did but maybe kane was thr previous manager... he can certainly take credit for winks i'd say. I'm struggling for anyone for ole, greenwood if we're being generous (a handful of games this season isn't quite integrated imo, although he does look so good).
The “Ole In” Brigade
- Thread starter Lentwood
- Start date
I know what you mean. Its a weird one, feels the way we play suits teams who attack us so it seems like ole has thr beating of better teams, but the fact we often look beyond clueless against shit teams makes me think he does struggle to be flexible or coach players. Hopwfully pogba will change that.
Great post. Thumbs up.
I dont fully agree with the good tactician part. Setting up your team to sit back and shoot the ball forward to some of the quickest players in the league (Rashford and James) doesnt prove that someone is a good tactician. Every manager does that with succes multiple times a season. It is a very old and proven tactic.
A good tactic would be to break down a team which is playing exactly like that. That is the hard part of tactics. Ole hasnt been able to do that. Partly because of the lack of quality of his players but also the lack of a working tactic. Playing Lingard in those games isnt exactly a tactical masterclass either.
You cant claim there isnt any reason at all to sack Ole. The results, league position and overall quality of games could all be a reason. I am not claiming he needs to be sacked but "zero reason" just isnt true.
Oh it’s clear he isn’t the right man. As clear as Phil Jones not being our main CB. But good post.
Out of Interest, what are the issues? As except for the overall running of the club Ole’s issues are bigger than the team.. to me.
Ole in, or Ole out.
I hope everyone, sackers or backers, will give Ole the respect he deserves for actually putting the long term success of the club ahead of his own personal short term success. He could have done it the easy way, brought in some short term saviors like Mandžukić, kept Lukaku, etc, but choose to put his own reputation at risk to bring us back were we belong, by going the long route, and accepting the inconsistency of a young and thin squad, until he finds the right group of players.
That is very brave, very unselfish, and deserves a big "thank you", and not a "moron", even if you think he is not good enough.
I hope everyone, sackers or backers, will give Ole the respect he deserves for actually putting the long term success of the club ahead of his own personal short term success. He could have done it the easy way, brought in some short term saviors like Mandžukić, kept Lukaku, etc, but choose to put his own reputation at risk to bring us back were we belong, by going the long route, and accepting the inconsistency of a young and thin squad, until he finds the right group of players.
That is very brave, very unselfish, and deserves a big "thank you", and not a "moron", even if you think he is not good enough.
Completely agree.
He's come in and played the hatchet man - anyone in any line of business knows how necessary hatchet men are, but it can be career suicide in some respects as you get typecast that way. And you don't get credit for future success, even if you make the changes which are necessary to improve any other aspect going forward.
Essentially, Solskjaer has MASSIVE trimmed our wage budget, and lost a number of key personnel in key positions - which nobody can deny wasn't necessary. You can complain that he maybe needed to be more forceful with his recruitment but looking at it in the way of business, he's trimmed what, a million, two million pounds -every week- and kept us competitive, which is a minor miracle.
Alli yes I ll give you that one - Kane was 21 at the time and had made a breakthrough the season before but ok we can add him for arguments sake.
But if you are gonna use Winks and Kane - then you also need to add Tuanzebe, AWB, James, Rashford, McTominay - because these player are/were basically at the same age as Kane and Winks when they made a breakthrough. And we have Greenwood, Williams, Garner all getting chances..
Honestly, this.
How nobody can see that this is what he's doing, I will never know. And if we had a bit of luck with our injuries, who knows where we'd have been this season. He needs to bring in at least two quality additions this Jan and try and cement himself and the team in the top 4 and EL race.
Unfortunately, we have idiotic comments from posters who were likely not even born when the man dug us out of the shit multiple times during his playing career, who are pining after a flavour of the month name.
Good post but good luck with this argument, won’t wash with the NuFootball FM lot
He’s taking the easy option, playing youngsters who aren’t good enough so no pressure, no expectations, no ambition.
I prefer a manager who backs himself & wants us to be challenging (you can blood the good youth amongst that)
Right now he has the easiest job in world football & he’s untouchable & he knows it
How hard is it to grasp that nobody who’s Ole out doesn’t value what he was for us as a player?
You can BOTH think he’s a legend of a player AND not good enough to be our manger. I mean how dense are people seriously
Fecking hell, you're one pretentious shit.
"World leading in my field" get the feck.
A player will not change that, it is a style of play. Sure he can make it a little better, but we will still struggle to make it easy to win these teams, this is all on the manager. You can not just blame the whole squad when they look clueless against these shitty teams, but praise the manager when we beat attacking teams. The truth is, It is all the way around.
It staggers me that you or anybody else could actually be in the mindset to believe what you have posted here
Ok then. I’m staggered half of you fans want a manager who’s clearly not good enough while the rest of the league see as a non entity and no threat anymore, yet you’ll defend him to the ends of the earth for no logical reasons. That staggers me
I think it would be best to see if we can we our next game, and a game after that. We've got some winnable games here and only McTominay missing now. Pogba, Fred, Andreas are more than capable of destroying teams that we're coming up against so let's see. Go on a winning streak and I'm sure a lot of Ole out fans will reconsider their position. One game where the oposition gifted 3 goals to us, isn't going to change opinions.
It is many different things. Style of play, the players on the pitch, confidence, experience, game management.
There is no doubt that having Pogba on the pitch instead of Lingard/Pereira/Mata will lead to better chance creation, and more goals scored. He is a massive addition to our attacking potential and there is no way that we wouldnt have won more games had he been available all season.
Rashford had over 100 appearances so not remotely the same. Mctominay had been a regular starter. Kane had a handful of appearances for spurs. I think your bias is clouding your judgeement there.
True. You are right. I hope pogba makes a difference but yeah ultimately we do look clueless against defensive team and pogba isn't some magic key. The team don't understand how to break thrm down and that is down to coaching.
But which of the youngsters aren’t good enough? Pretty much all of them have shown their potential this season.
I can’t get my head around supporting United and not wanting to see youth players, it’s a huge part of the culture of the club.
Yeah, I've seen so much respect for him on here and on social media, not like I've seen him been called a cnut, a gammon, or worse.... No sirree(!)
It will be interesting to see how Ole handles top players when/if they finally come. We all complain about the thread bare squad but I think that's made Oles job a whole lot easier. There's harmony within the squad because basically the starting 11 picks its self week in week out and he's able to give youth a chance in meaningless games keeping up with, "United traditions." Even on the caf there isn't much argument because of the, "who else can he play" cliché .
Does Ole have the experience (or the cojones) to drop top players when we have a far better squad? Is Ole tactically astute enough to coach players with a higher pedigree than what we have now? Will the harmony still be there when he has to make tough decisions? Basically is he ruthless enough to take us back to the top?
Say what you want about Poch but he wasn't sacked from Spuds for being shite. He was sacked because the dressing room was lost through no fault of his own which resulted in shite performances. Poch has the experience and pedigree to deal with all of the above whereas for Ole it's going to be another learning curve because he's got no experience in dealing with any of the above.
Don't know about all of you but for me Ole hasn't shown anywhere near enough for me to think he's the one to take us back to the top with relatively little pressure on him and I'm not sure whether having better players will make us automatically better because first Ole has to manage them with zero experience in doing so.
Does Ole have the experience (or the cojones) to drop top players when we have a far better squad? Is Ole tactically astute enough to coach players with a higher pedigree than what we have now? Will the harmony still be there when he has to make tough decisions? Basically is he ruthless enough to take us back to the top?
Say what you want about Poch but he wasn't sacked from Spuds for being shite. He was sacked because the dressing room was lost through no fault of his own which resulted in shite performances. Poch has the experience and pedigree to deal with all of the above whereas for Ole it's going to be another learning curve because he's got no experience in dealing with any of the above.
Don't know about all of you but for me Ole hasn't shown anywhere near enough for me to think he's the one to take us back to the top with relatively little pressure on him and I'm not sure whether having better players will make us automatically better because first Ole has to manage them with zero experience in doing so.
fecking hell, and you said I was dense in your reply to me
Do you really think he wants us to be midtable to keep him in a job? It's not like he needs the money... He's done something which the previous three managers didn't have the balls to do, and those three you could easily say were far more interested in self preservation than actually doing the job well.
That was AC Milan thought about Allegri. Then they had a masive downfall after his departure and watching the dominance of Juve with him as manager. Too late to notice the team issue with the corrupt Bellusconi is bigger than Allegri.
This is not about a comparison between Ole and Allegri, but the manager issue would never bigger than the team in half season. As I hate Moyes, but also support him until the season end, and the same feeling with Van Gaal or Mourinho. Just give Ole the time he deserve.
Seems undeniable, indeed.
No matter what one feels about Pogba, as such, he obviously adds a great deal to our attacking game when he's on reasonable form. Two trivial (but telling, in this context) incidents yesterday:
a) he sits fairly deep initially, picks up the ball, plays a simple pass (to Fred, I think - possibly Pereira), then pushes up quickly to make himself available, gets the ball back and immediately releases it, one-touch, out wide with precision and speed.
b) he sits fairly deep (again), plays a simple pass (again) and then goes on a dangerous run into the box, reading the play perfectly, dragging opposition players along.
Nothing came of either incident - but a) we have no other player capable of impacting the game in anything like that fashion and b) he was playing as a CM alongside Fred, not in what most consider his best position.
We're four points off Chelsea in 4th at the moment. Pogba, injury free and reasonably motivated/in reasonable nick, for the entire season - and, yeah, I'd say it's obvious we would've picked up more points.
The season before Poch joined Tottenham Kane had 19 appearances.
The season before Ole joined United Scott had 23, and then 6 the season after by the time Mourinho was sacked.
Based on that it’s unfair to say Poch integrated Kane and Ole didn’t with Scott, both managers made their players starters and regulars.
Do you even watch the games? You think all it takes to win against EPL's top 6 teams is to sit back and shoot the ball forward to quick players?
That is ridiculous.
it doesn’t take ‘balls’ to not have any ambition anymore & to keep using the ‘I’m building for the future’ excuse all the time. A man who said’ you win some, you lose some’ doesn’t take balls. He isn’t good enough, knows he has a safe job & you lapdogs keep lapping it up. Do you know what enjoy mid table mediocrity. Can’t wait til we hire a decent manager againfecking hell, and you said I was dense in your reply to me
Do you really think he wants us to be midtable to keep him in a job? It's not like he needs the money... He's done something which the previous three managers didn't have the balls to do, and those three you could easily say were far more interested in self preservation than actually doing the job well.
AC Milan sold Zlatan and Thiago Silva and didn’t have the funds to replace them and continue to be a club how are broke. This has not the same and has nothing to do with them sacking Allegri. Unless you care to advise me different.
He had a handful appearances for Spurs - but he had about 60 appearances on loan to other clubs, so its not like he was a complete rookie. And age-wise they were the same.
Pretty much. Obviously you need half decent players too. Which makes it even more of a clue that Ole isn’t good enough and has no actual plan against other teams as he has no ability to actually do that like a world class manager could
I am still waiting for your reply to the Cardiff-post.
So, you are saying if he wins every game people will stop attacking him? How generous of them!
Newsflash: we will lose games again, including stupid ones because we have unbalanced and inconsistent team that lacks depth. That is why he said this year is not about results. We need several transfer windows to get consistency and balance and no amount of yelling on Caf is going to change that
You mean Mourinho, vanGaal and maybe even Moyes? It went very well. Don’t you think? And it was with arguble better players.
Names don’t matter in football anymore. It is what you show that counts.
And RedCafe GOAT manager, currently without job after being sacked 2nd time (3 clubs) and leaving one in relegation.
Ten Hag, Nagelsman, Farke, Hasenhuttl, Howe, Poch, Potter and other managers being mentioned her. Just random names and nothing we need now.
I guess you could argue it either way, but jose called mctominay his player of the year so i'd say he was already established personally. I don't think people were saying the same of kane at that point. And even if you count him thats one player. Maybe greenwood at a stretch (still early days). No one else the previous poster listed is established.
He was famously shite on loan so if anything that makes his career turnaround under poch even more impressive...
My oh my. Must be interesting to have such astral view of football, living in a make-believe world of fantasy
He is just annoyed that we fired Mourinho
Let's be honest. Pogba is worth an easy 6 points for the time he's been out, we'd be sitting comfortable in 4th and the Ole brigade would be looking silly.
We were both unlucky with injuries and naive in going into the season with a lack of creativity (I actually think he expected more from Andreas).
We were both unlucky with injuries and naive in going into the season with a lack of creativity (I actually think he expected more from Andreas).