The 4-4-2 Draft - SF - Sjor/GSTQ vs Pat Mustard

[Pat_Mustard]

SJOR/GSTQ:

MUSTARD:

SJOR/GSTQ:

Tactics

Counter-attacking
442 itself is a more direct setup then some others so naturally counter-attacking style is often a chosen style. The whole drafting process was built around that idea:

Defending
Without a good defence the whole system goes to shit so we drafted 4 defenders first combined with a great on goal that suits the centerback partnership. Vogts is one of the rare balanced fullbacks that is actually an elite defender, former part was crucial as we didnt really want a defensive fullback so we can fully exploit the offensive benefits of a double wing. On the other side a more attacking Cabrini who was still a fine defender and between them the best CB partnership in the draft, classic sweeper stopper combo of Rio Ferdinand and Fabio Cannavaro. Van der Sar behind them, obviously proven partnership with Rio and a great fit for the whole defence considering his unmatched organizational skills and communication which are key in situations where you invite pressure.
If there was ever doubt, think modern game proved it once again that a good defence means feck all unless every player on the team puts in work, the good old "attacker is your first defender, goalie is your first attacker" so the rest of the team was built like that as well. Two hard working wingers in Conti and Figo, Davids as elite defensive midfielder in the engine room next to Paul Scholes, forever underrated maestro in drafts, specially in terms of his defensive game. Guy that played his whole career in the midfield two, on an insanely high level but always gets questioned in drafts for his defensive game while some who excelled in mid threes are louded to heavens, if this isnt the draft he will get the credit he deserves then it really is a draft suicide to have him in the team.
Up front hardworking Gigi Riva and one of the most unique players to ever play the game, the ultimate sidekick Uwe Seeler, providing workrate for two if needed.

Attacking
Team is filled with brilliant footballers so if there is a need to mix it up and play, they are more then capable which is always very important. But primarily the team is built to dominate on the counter. From great distribution of the goalkeeper all the way to a bulldozing power of Gigi Riva. There are so many different avenues for this team to counter that we dont really know where to start. The counter-attacking potential of Figo and Conti with Scholes pinging passes right, left and center is plain scary.
Scholes will play his DLP role, which gives Davids the freedom to do his thing, cause havoc both on and off the ball.
With addition of Figo the creativity went up a level so with him and Conti as final third providers and Scholes isolating them in 1v1 situations, there should be more then plenty of chances for two masters of the box, Seeler and Riva.

Factor X
Paul Scholes. Even more so then in the last game.


MUSTARD:

With Gerrard consigned to the bench Barnes and Dalglish are all that remain of my Liverpool core, but insofar as we've built around any template, this team owes much to their great 4-4-2 sides of the 70s and 80s who deserve to be represented in this draft. Ruud Krol replaces Camacho to ramp up even further our quality in possession and comfort in pushing the defensive line up. Paul Breitner is one of the rare few players in this pool who I would consider an upgrade on Gerrard in that roaming wide midfielder role, combining wonderful technical ability and prodigious dynamism with a proven ability to both attack and defend on the wings.

• John Barnes, along with Ryan Giggs, was simply first and foremost in my thoughts when I considered the left winger pool for this draft. When it comes to marrying familiarity with the demands of the formation and game-breaking individual ability, he has few peers in the pool.
• Liverpool frequently deployed combative and industrious midfielders such as Sammy Lee, Terry McDermott, Ray Houghton and Jimmy Case on the right of their midfield in their halcyon days - Gerrard was a natural upgrade, and in turn Breitner will replicate most of Gerrard's best qualities while offering an injection of overall quality, selflessness and intelligence.
• In the direct and frenetic environment of competing 4-4-2s, Dalglish's vision and composure is a priceless asset in bringing his teammates into play and carving open the opposition defence. I can't remember him having much of an impact in drafts previously, but with this theme and the substantial block list he's near the top of the heap in his role.
• Clearly no team is going to be exercising a tiki-taki style stranglehold on possession here, but we aim to play on the front foot and to that end we've drafted a defence that is comfortable pushing up into a high line. GOAT-level keeper in Schmeichel who was comfortable surging off his line, and a pacey CB pairing who are both comfortable on the ball and in McGrath's case especially, confident 1v1 defenders. Both FBs excelled in high line systems and will ratchet up the quality of our build up play immensely.
• We have a particularly strong CM duo and in my view a highly complementary one: Bastian as the more positionally-reserved of the pairing; Robbo as the B2B force of nature.
• The partnership up front is basically a pairing of all-time Scotland XI shoo-ins, who only got to play together fleetingly at the very end of Law's career. Dalglish will knit together our attack as he did for Celtic and Liverpool with such distinction, with Law providing the lethal cutting edge and a workrate both in possession and against the ball to rival Dalglish's most celebrated partner Ian Rush.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

@Šjor Bepo @GodShaveTheQueen game on!

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@Šjor Bepo @GodShaveTheQueen game on!

good luck cutie

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I actually prefer Gerrard there
Though not in the role you were using him last game but he had great athletic capabilities to cover for Alves/Robbo while still providing a threat in the final third. With Breitner im a bit lost how would it work, to my knowledge he never played anything like that in his career and while i could buy the same role on the left where he can drift inside im not sure what exactly he offers on the right, his options are fairly limited. Even if he drifted completely in the middle it doesnt work as both Law and Kenny occupy that space so ideally you needed another Barnes there who would be happy or at least content to stay out wide so you create space for players in the middle.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Player that got lost a bit in previous games, fantastic winger and one of those rare breeds where you get a magician who is more then happy to do the donkey work. Can play both sides, two great feet, fantastic delivery which is more then handy considering our front two and he could have a great game with Scholes isolating him for 1v1 situations. Think him and Cabrini as a duo would be a bit to much to handle for Breitner and Alves as i can see former struggling a bit to keep up considering his athletic capabilities.

 

[Himannv]

I might be one of the only people who prefer Breitner in a wider position as opposed to centrally so I kind of like this one. Having said that, these are both great sides. Hard to pick one.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

I actually prefer Gerrard there
Though not in the role you were using him last game but he had great athletic capabilities to cover for Alves/Robbo while still providing a threat in the final third. With Breitner im a bit lost how would it work, to my knowledge he never played anything like that in his career and while i could buy the same role on the left where he can drift inside im not sure what exactly he offers on the right, his options are fairly limited. Even if he drifted completely in the middle it doesnt work as both Law and Kenny occupy that space so ideally you needed another Barnes there who would be happy or at least content to stay out wide so you create space for players in the middle.

The most important thing to note is that he starred in a spaghetti western.


And was friends with a horse.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

The most important thing to note is that he starred in a spaghetti western.


And was friends with a horse.

point well made sir, no further questions

 

[Physiocrat]

I'm with Sjor on Breitner. It seems to me he has three versions: early dynamic LB, Madrid B2B, then Bayern midfield playmaker. I'm guessing it's the latter but from memory that version wasn't hugely dynamic.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Bepo will be leading the debate but just wanted to point 1 distinction our team has had over every other team in this draft and that is the quality of the defense. Obviously, almost all the defenses in the draft were well built but when we talk about pure quality, there is a huge gulf in class in our team as compared to any other team, as would be expected if your first 4 picks are defenders.

Now McGrath, Krol and Alves are all players I rate highly and while Silva has not been a favorite of mine, I know enough people rate him highly considering his standing among the defenders of his era. And even with a defense of this quality, Cabrini-Cannavaro-Rio-Vogts is just leaps and bounds better when it comes to keeping the ball out of goal IMO.

I think every other area on the pitch is well matched quality wise without any significant delta in quality, but the defense is one area which I think should count as a huge advantage for us personnel wise and chemistry wise.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Voted just to see the score. My vote shouldn't count.

Love SSTQ midfield and defense
Love Pat's attack.

Tough call this.

 

[TheReligion]

What happened to Boniek

 

[Pat_Mustard]

I'm with Sjor on Breitner. It seems to me he has three versions: early dynamic LB, Madrid B2B, then Bayern midfield playmaker. I'm guessing it's the latter but from memory that version wasn't hugely dynamic.

Breitner in his second Bayern stint was still very much a dynamic player, and it's probably fair to say his whole playing style was reliant on that quality. Even in this match at the end of his penultimate season before he retired at 31 due to injuries, you can still see evidence of those trademark surges forward:


It's worth noting that he was already struggling with the injuries that would end his career at this point. I found a brilliant Bayern blog here that I'll post some quotes from.

Due to their two deep defensive lines, Bayern’s way to the opposite goal was always quite long, constantly requiring them to bridge a large area when transitioning from defense to offense. This was not a disadvantage per se as Paul Breitner was ideally suited to play in this way. Breitner was a unique hybrid of a playmaker and box-to-box midfielder, whose specialty it was to advance with long strides, the ball at his feet, from defense to attack. However, at the time of the match, he was not really fit: He had not played a single Bundesliga match over the full distance since Bayern’s comprehensive defeat against Hamburg on matchday 28. Just 11 days prior to the final, Breitner had to be replaced during the game in Gladbach due to a strain he had suffered shortly before on international duty in a meaningless friendly between Germany and Norway. He was simply physically unable to keep up his exhausting style of play for all of 90 minutes.

Interesting to note for the purposes of this match and where I've positioned him that he was the man who attempted to fill Bayern's gaping hole on right midfield in the first half vs Villa.

Another weak point in Bayern’s eleven was youngster Reinhold Mathy, who had only been called up to the first team very recently. He, too, was struggling to provide a link between defense and offense all game. Nominally positioned in right midfield, he again and again drifted towards the central playmaker position, adding just another body to the already crowded centre and leaving his right side practically vacated. Whenever Dürnberger launched into one of his occasional attacks down the left wing, there was a single large hole on the right-hand side, as right-back Dremmler hardly ever participated in attacks. Only Paul Breitner, who already had an enormous workload to shoulder as it was, tried to fill the void on the right from time to time. Whenever he was on the ball, danger for Villa was in the air. This was particularly the case towards the end of the first half, when Aston Villa were increasingly unable to fill the occuring gaps despite their best efforts to do so.

A great short profile of Breitner from that same site (the whole thing is worth a read):

https://miasanrot.com/miasanrot-awards-places-11-to-8/#8th-place-paul-breitner

and an excerpt regarding his reliance on workrate and dynamism:

This versatility made him a kind of “do-it-all” when he returned to FC Bayern in a largely leaderless and headless team in 1978. However, Breitner was also dependent on an intact physique with his dynamic runs. He was not a director who could also steer a game as a “standing soccer player”, as Riquelme later celebrated. Therefore the period of the “Breitnigge”-duo was a peak, that unfortunately lasted only relatively short. Already in the season 1981/82 Breitner had to fight with injuries again and again, was consequently not in form after his DFB comeback at the WM 82 and had to end his career prematurely in 1983 with only 31 years.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

What happened to Boniek

Had to be dropped as people who have no clue about his playing style are allowed to vote too. We got tired after 2 games and chickened out.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

I actually prefer Gerrard there
Though not in the role you were using him last game but he had great athletic capabilities to cover for Alves/Robbo while still providing a threat in the final third. With Breitner im a bit lost how would it work, to my knowledge he never played anything like that in his career and while i could buy the same role on the left where he can drift inside im not sure what exactly he offers on the right, his options are fairly limited. Even if he drifted completely in the middle it doesnt work as both Law and Kenny occupy that space so ideally you needed another Barnes there who would be happy or at least content to stay out wide so you create space for players in the middle.

Non-cowboy related answer now that I've got some time. I'd agree that Gerrard was truly exceptional in terms of his athleticism and solely in the regard of covering for Alves defending the quick counter Breitner probably breaks even with him at best, even as a former world class FB.

The two matches on footballia vs Borussia Monchengladbach IIRC he played as the RCM and spent much of his time in wide areas, swinging in plenty of crosses.

As to what he offers on the right, he's an excellent ball carrier and there's no reason why he can't use that skill from a wide midfield position. Decent crosser who was willing to go on the outside quite frequently. Brilliant passer, particularly his long-range passing. I don't see Kenny getting in his way at all. On the contrary, fizzing the ball into big arsed Kenny's feet is such an easy and fruitful way to build attacks, and he provides yet another willing runner to profit from Kenny's great back-to-goal play and creative passing.

Old-school GIF-fest:

Spoiler: Assist from deep inside-right

Spoiler: Surging down the right channel to score on the counter

Spoiler: Clipped cross from the right to assist Rummenigge

Spoiler: Springing Hoeness to score the opener in 1974 EC Final

[/URL]

Spoiler: Most famous Breitenigge goal of all?

Spoiler: Piledriver from range

Spoiler: Another tasty pass down that flank

 

[Pat_Mustard]

A reminder of what Dalglish brings to the table here. In a familiar role, with a razor sharp partner in Law alongside him and willing runners from midfield to make the most of his back-to-goal play, he looks as likely a match-decider as anyone here. Also, I'm perturbed that a fecking 3 minute video has racked up a grand total of 3 views, all of which are probably me .

 

[Gio]

A reminder of what Dalglish brings to the table here. In a familiar role, with a razor sharp partner in Law alongside him and willing runners from midfield to make the most of his back-to-goal play, he looks as likely a match-decider as anyone here. Also, I'm perturbed that a fecking 3 minute video has racked up a grand total of 3 views, all of which are probably me .

That assist is ridiculous. Struggling to think of anyone else who has the combination of strength to hold a long ball in like that and the vision / technique to execute the through ball.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Non-cowboy related answer now that I've got some time. I'd agree that Gerrard was truly exceptional in terms of his athleticism and solely in the regard of covering for Alves defending the quick counter Breitner probably breaks even with him at best, even as a former world class FB.

The two matches on footballia vs Borussia Monchengladbach IIRC he played as the RCM and spent much of his time in wide areas, swinging in plenty of crosses.

As to what he offers on the right, he's an excellent ball carrier and there's no reason why he can't use that skill from a wide midfield position. Decent crosser who was willing to go on the outside quite frequently. Brilliant passer, particularly his long-range passing. I don't see Kenny getting in his way at all. On the contrary, fizzing the ball into big arsed Kenny's feet is such an easy and fruitful way to build attacks, and he provides yet another willing runner to profit from Kenny's great back-to-goal play and

Saw the gifs and pretty much confirmed my thoughts, either midfielder actions or something that Dani Alves brings to the table.
Offensive wise it works as Breitner is a great talent so he will make a use of himself but he would be a shadow of his best version which is sad for a player of that talent.
My concerns are more on the defensive end, i dont think he has the dynamism to play out wide, yes he was a fullback but you just need too see one game from him there to see its a unique role and his defending was very average , often against average opposition.

Regarding stepping on toes, Scholes wont have any of it on his watch!
Was more thinking in case Breitner moves centrally to get more involved, if you happy for him to stay wide which it seems you are then its a non issue.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

A reminder of what Dalglish brings to the table here. In a familiar role, with a razor sharp partner in Law alongside him and willing runners from midfield to make the most of his back-to-goal play, he looks as likely a match-decider as anyone here. Also, I'm perturbed that a fecking 3 minute video has racked up a grand total of 3 views, all of which are probably me .

Brilliant player and of the best SS in the draft.
Though im not really a big fan of the partnership. Its a very british theme you have and i struggle to see two second strikers flourish together, think both would prefer a partner that can lead the line. As with Breitner, it can work as Law will make it work with anyone but reckon neither will be at his best and at this level that should be costly.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I feel our advantage is alongside the GOAT defence is that all other players are in best position to perform at their best. Very clean fits and partnerships.

Someone mentioned Boniek and im sure it was a tongue in cheek comment but it was very hard to drop him as we wanted to go all the way with him considering the critics.
Though after the Seeler and Figo upgrades it was a no brainer decision to keep Conti in the team as he is more beneficial to our strikeforce.

 

[Jim Beam]

Voted, but am still in two minds. I like the use of Breitner and something different, but if you went that road Pat maybe De Bruyne would be a better choice. You would also get brownie points for taking a player no one had in mind so far.

It's not Dalglish - Breitner or Dalglish - Law dynamics that have me in doubt (Dalglish can make it work and I like that partnership upfront with two of them interchanging). It's Robson - Breitner. Naturally, both will surge forward possibly occupying the same positions at times once Dalglish holds the ball. Think De Bruyne could possibly bring more balance in that role.

Bepo/scrappy are definitely cleaner as a unit, Pat has a higher upside potential if it gels together though.

Edit: Barnes - Schweinsteiger - Breitner - De Bruyne would my preference thinking about it

 

[Gio]

Brilliant player and of the best SS in the draft.
Though im not really a big fan of the partnership. Its a very british theme you have and i struggle to see two second strikers flourish together, think both would prefer a partner that can lead the line. As with Breitner, it can work as Law will make it work with anyone but reckon neither will be at his best and at this level that should be costly.

I’m not sure there’s a compatibility issue. They’re both very well rounded and can play the different central attacker roles to an elite level. For what it’s worth the Dalglish/Law partnership is the unanimous choice of anyone picking their Scotland all-time XI.

I know the great forwards of the 1950/60s often played off a more dedicated goalscorer but I’d mostly attribute that to the more gung-ho nature of the game at the time when the goals-per-game average was much higher than in the modern game. It’s the same argument with Puskas, Eusebio, Pele etc. They all often played as second strikers but in a modern context they’d be false 9s or wide forwards with the main goalscoring responsibility in the team. For example, I imagine someone like Henry with his dual creator and finisher roles would have been a SS in the olden days, but became a line leader in the modern game.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Utilizing my 3rd and last AM post. I just wanted to reflect on the flanks battles.

2 vs 1 situations

First and foremost, its clear that both the flanks on both teams have operational fullbacks, so there will be a lot of overlapping and interplay between the winger and fullback. The ideal way a 4-4-2 deals with this is having hard working wingers. Essentially making sure it will always be 2 vs 2 instead of 2 vs 1. Looking at the 4 wingers/wide midfielders on display, Conti and Figo are the only two who I would say will work their socks off when not in possession. For all of Barnes' excellence on the ball, I don't think he offers much off the ball. Bepo has already made a case for Breitner's lack of athleticism and dynamism off the ball on the flank. Its clear when dealing with 2 vs 1 situations, our flanks look well set to counter the opponents while the opposition will have a tough time when Figo/Vogts and Conti/Cabrini double up on them. And while Krol is a brilliant defender who might still be able to deal with it considering Vogts is not the most aggressive of attackers, Alves would definitely have needed the help of a really hard working winger considering Cabrini was absolutely brilliant going forward. I can see us getting a lot of joy down that flank.

Alves, Breitner and Counters

It should be fairly obvious to anyone that Alves will have to bomb up the flank more often than not for that side to be effective offensively. Even in the Breitner passing gifs posted by Pat, you can see his passes are more often than not releasing the wide man - so without Alves making that aggressive runs, it greatly reduces Breitner's offensive impact as well. Our team has been built to counter attack with pace - be it Scholes' capability to let the ball travel from his own box to the opponent's in one pass or Conti's brilliant pace and physicality. If Alves is up the right flank and the opposition loses the ball, Scholes unleashing Conti on the flank is plain scary. One would expect the wide midfielder to cover for Alves which is Breitner in this case, but I don't think he has either the pace or physicality to deal with Conti on the counters. And considering we have two pure forwards leading the line, if Mcgrath tries to cover for Alves, all it would take is one good delivery from Conti to leave Riva/Seeler with acres of space in and around the box.

Summary

For me, these intricacies are way more crucial in which way a match would go. Its easy to look at Bastian-Bryan-Breitner and get orgasmic, but without looking at them from the perspective of a 4-4-2, we are just looking at the shiny names and not the actual dynamics of a 4-4-2. Barnes/Breitner vs Figo/Conti is a no brainer as to who suits the dynamics of multi pronged flank attack and defense system better, but is it a shiny enough point? Perhaps not.

 

[Physiocrat]

@Pat_Mustard

Good post on Breitner. Will watch the vids and reassess.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

SJOR BEPO - WINNER OF HEARTS IF NOT DRAFTS

So we have had write ups about players, tactics and managers in the past but never about a drafter, so here goes the first one. I had stopped enjoying co-managing teams and tend to avoid them as I am a bit stubborn w.r.t picks but this is one partnership I enjoyed - not just because our team has done fairly well, but because we probably had much more debates in the conversation every round of drafting as compared to the actual match threads. Time to show case some of his unique qualities - he might not have won enough drafts but his principles w.r.t drafting are miles ahead of most.

Integrity and Team Player

lets just make one rule, we both have to agree with the player we gonna pick....and dont let some through just cause you want to be nice, if i want my Welbeck at some point tell me to feck off

Big names don't impress him

god bless gio, now i dont have to decline figo

Let me just put it out there, zero chance of me picking Roberto Carlos.....sorry

Not the biggest fan of tardelli

Biggest ambassador of the high press since Sacchi

what you think about a high line high press team with Rio and Stam in the back? might be the only ones doing that as not many players are suited to a high press, specially for a specific team like 442
mind you, i adore Rio Vida partnership so im happy there as well......but have to ask as there is nothing better then a high press team

i wonder how long until Iniesta gets picked.....that is allowed? Putting a midfielder on the wing?
high line high press with Don Andres as LM.....ohh mamacita

Open minded

i never really watched or to be precise payed much attention to Boniek, can you sell him a bit? Did he ever played in a 442, i thought he was more of a attacker with great movement of the ball so his biggest quality would be a bit wasted in the 442....its like putting Thomas Muller on the right in a 442, but as i said, i dont know much about Boniek so im open to change my mind.

This is Boniek performance I was talking about. Check it out, playing as a free roaming left midfielder, kind of like Iniesta. Insane work rate as well in this game. Let me know what you think.

id be able to sell him for LM with that vid no problems

Dedicated even when infected

Corona hit me hard mate so not sure how often will i be online, specially in the evenings.....will try to get every hour or so to discuss picks

Gives you the respect of a lab rat

This is a window into a new perspective of drafting, have to say my own style is completely different so how ever we finish its a successful experiment

Tactical genius - Brain behind the Cabrini-Netto-Boniek-Riva axis

Think we should snatch netto and finish that tactical masterpiece
shall i pick netto?

ohh you already did....and tried to steal him as your own pick, lovely

Feck votes and wins!

yeah i agree that mazzola would win more votes but feck me what a depressing way of playing the drafts(no offence )

Zero respect lost, playing for a win is fine its just i dont get it but thats my problem i guess

And of course can be a bit of cnut at times

btw scholes trying to pair scholes and pirlo

My test for the team is always the eap vote, if he votes against its a good team i built.

think i lost us a vote from earvin

To @Šjor Bepo

 

[Theon]

I might be one of the only people who prefer Breitner in a wider position as opposed to centrally so I kind of like this one. Having said that, these are both great sides. Hard to pick one.

I thought when Pat took Breitner / Krol he may have been tempted to play him on the left of midfield whilst keep Gerrard on the right to overwhelm the opposition physically - would have given a very different 4-4-2 compared to the rest of the draft, more like Simeone’s Atletico Madrid than anything else.

Understand the decision to stick with Barnes though and on either the left or the right I think Breitner works well, with the all-round skill-set to support both phases, contribute to the midfield battle and pose a goal-threat offensively.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

and then edgar goes and builds best team of the draft! you can thank me later cutie @Edgar Allan Pillow

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I’m not sure there’s a compatibility issue. They’re both very well rounded and can play the different central attacker roles to an elite level. For what it’s worth the Dalglish/Law partnership is the unanimous choice of anyone picking their Scotland all-time XI.

I know the great forwards of the 1950/60s often played off a more dedicated goalscorer but I’d mostly attribute that to the more gung-ho nature of the game at the time when the goals-per-game average was much higher than in the modern game. It’s the same argument with Puskas, Eusebio, Pele etc. They all often played as second strikers but in a modern context they’d be false 9s or wide forwards with the main goalscoring responsibility in the team. For example, I imagine someone like Henry with his dual creator and finisher roles would have been a SS in the olden days, but became a line leader in the modern game.

Law is twice the player Rush is, would you say this partnership would be better then that one? I wouldnt. They can make it work but they wouldnt be at their very best, thats by point. Regarding Scotland XI, of course they are because there is a big gap in quality considering the limited pool.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

SJOR BEPO - WINNER OF HEARTS IF NOT DRAFTS

So we have had write ups about players, tactics and managers in the past but never about a drafter, so here goes the first one. I had stopped enjoying co-managing teams and tend to avoid them as I am a bit stubborn w.r.t picks but this is one partnership I enjoyed - not just because our team has done fairly well, but because we probably had much more debates in the conversation every round of drafting as compared to the actual match threads. Time to show case some of his unique qualities - he might not have won enough drafts but his principles w.r.t drafting are miles ahead of most.

Integrity and Team Player



Big names don't impress him





Biggest ambassador of the high press since Sacchi




Open minded





Dedicated even when infected



Gives you the respect of a lab rat



Tactical genius - Brain behind the Cabrini-Netto-Boniek-Riva axis




Feck votes and wins!




And of course can be a bit of cnut at times





To @Šjor Bepo

also, i feel naked now.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

and then edgar goes and builds best team of the draft! you can thank me later cutie @Edgar Allan Pillow

Wanker.

Rush is a completely different type of player from Law. He specialized in making the runs to beat last man, with Kenny working his magic to spring Rush free. Law is more well rounded and overall better player, but the dynamics is different.

Maybe someone like Suarez might be a better fit for Kenny than Law.

 

[Gio]

Law is twice the player Rush is, would you say this partnership would be better then that one? I wouldnt. They can make it work but they wouldnt be at their very best, thats by point. Regarding Scotland XI, of course they are because there is a big gap in quality considering the limited pool.

Well Dalglish and Rush is one of the greatest partnerships of all time, but Rush isn't on the park and Dalglish can stand on his own merits. He is that multi-faceted that I struggle to see many strike partners who wouldn't work with him. Someone like Ibrahimovic or Cantona I reckon wouldn't work, but your classic no9s and your all-rounders with penalty box threat do. It's not as if Dalglish requires a specific type of striker to play well with. Before Rush came he forged European Cup winning partnerships with David Johnson for example who held the ball up well and could feed others.

To me it's like suggesting Rio and Cannavaro isn't as optimal as Rio and Vidic. Probably your centre-half partnership isn't as defined into 2 distinct roles as Vidic/Rio was, but I'd still maintain that Cannavaro and Rio works well because of their all-round games.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Well Dalglish and Rush is one of the greatest partnerships of all time, but Rush isn't on the park and Dalglish can stand on his own merits. He is that multi-faceted that I struggle to see many strike partners who wouldn't work with him. Someone like Ibrahimovic or Cantona I reckon wouldn't work, but your classic no9s and your all-rounders with penalty box threat do. It's not as if Dalglish requires a specific type of striker to play well with. Before Rush came he forged European Cup winning partnerships with David Johnson for example who held the ball up well and could feed others.

To me it's like suggesting Rio and Cannavaro isn't as optimal as Rio and Vidic. Probably your centre-half partnership isn't as defined into 2 distinct roles as Vidic/Rio was, but I'd still maintain that Cannavaro and Rio works well because of their all-round games.

Yeah it is but still if you pair up Kenny with lets say Suarez you can argue a great case that partnership is better or at least on pair with the Rush one.
As i said, i can see them work i just cant see them being at their very best because both loved the freedom to roam and essentially play in that "Zola zone" between attack and midfield, this is where they elevate themself into special heights.

Also not sure i understand your comparison, its a classic stopper sweeper combo. If we paired up Terry and Cannavaro then you would have a point. Players dont need to be identical dont get me wrong but in a 442 some roles should be respected and in a classic british core you cant beat a combination of a SS that drops and a striker that leads the line. If the team was more continental based and you has Boniek/Iniesta on the wing and one goalscorer on the right with Redondo/Xavi +1 in midfield, id buy more into the two SS up front idea.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I still find it odd that no one sees or mentions the gulf in quality of defense. Considering how good the pair of forwards on either side are, the relative quality of centrebacks should have had a bigger say on the game.

Even if we just look at the rankings we did for centre backs -

Stoppers:
Cannavaro - 3rd
Mcgrath - 19th

Ball playing centre backs:
Rio - 10th
Silva - 31st

That is easily a couple of notches higher. Maybe we didn't sell it because it seemed too obvious, but it has had no impact on any of our games which has been disappointing considering they were our first two picks.

 

[Gio]

Voted, but am still in two minds. I like the use of Breitner and something different, but if you went that road Pat maybe De Bruyne would be a better choice. You would also get brownie points for taking a player no one had in mind so far.

It's not Dalglish - Breitner or Dalglish - Law dynamics that have me in doubt (Dalglish can make it work and I like that partnership upfront with two of them interchanging). It's Robson - Breitner. Naturally, both will surge forward possibly occupying the same positions at times once Dalglish holds the ball. Think De Bruyne could possibly bring more balance in that role.

Bepo/scrappy are definitely cleaner as a unit, Pat has a higher upside potential if it gels together though.

Edit: Barnes - Schweinsteiger - Breitner - De Bruyne would my preference thinking about it

Same thoughts here. Thought Pat might keep Gerrard and use Breitner off the left in a compact, hard-running midfield that packed plenty of goal threat - as per @Theon's comment. It still works for me with Alves there, but the Robbo/Breitner partnership next to each other isn't quite optimal.

I rate Thiago Silva in the same tier as Sjor/GSTQ's magnificent centre-half duo, knowing that I'm probably ploughing a lonely furrow on that one. Dalglish feels in his groove in a 442 draft and Figo getting slowed down somewhat by Krol is quite key here for Pat.

Think GSTQ and Sjor have drafted really well. Everything is spot on in terms of tactics and structure and I like the use of Conti within that midfield unit.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Cheers @Pat_Mustard @Šjor Bepo

 

[General_Elegancia]

Login for first time today (maybe a bit late due to a lot of activities) since I’ve watched Australian Open and done some activities with family. I’ve watched Italy’s matches in WC 1982 and I would say Cabrini was a very complete fullback both technically and physicality. He was very good at going forward to support attackers and had some nice crosses and in defensive phase he was a great defender with superb positioning and intelligent. Imho, he is on the same level with Brehme. Maybe Andy was better on offensive phase, had more weapons like better crossing, shooting but on defensive phase I see Italian boy a bit better.

So, I want to ask everyone opinions about Cabrini. How high you rate Cabrini?
For me I rate him almost same level as Brehme( a little bit below).

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Brehme, Cabrini, Breitner, Lizarazu, Junior, Krol are probably all on Tier 1 for me. Would add Carlos there too, but he always had his defensive ability questioned in drafts.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Had to be dropped as people who have no clue about his playing style are allowed to vote too. We got tired after 2 games and chickened out.

Ironically, I have the same problem with Breitner that I had with Boniek. The case of "can make it work". It's like playing Neeskens at RB because he can do it and has done it in one/some games that are not in his peak.

Will they do it? Yes
Can they do it? Yes
Will it be their "peak"? Definitely No.

Rating the impact of a off peak GOAT is all arbitrary.

We've as many GOATs who have struggled in other countries / different tactics as those who have succeeded. So just going by "abilities" feels so wrong to me. There's a 50% chance for them to succeed and that's not good enough for me to vote, esp in QF onwards.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Cheers @Pat_Mustard @Šjor Bepo

Cheers mate. I liked your ode to @Šjor Bepo , the legend!

 

[Himannv]

SJOR BEPO - WINNER OF HEARTS IF NOT DRAFTS

So we have had write ups about players, tactics and managers in the past but never about a drafter, so here goes the first one. I had stopped enjoying co-managing teams and tend to avoid them as I am a bit stubborn w.r.t picks but this is one partnership I enjoyed - not just because our team has done fairly well, but because we probably had much more debates in the conversation every round of drafting as compared to the actual match threads. Time to show case some of his unique qualities - he might not have won enough drafts but his principles w.r.t drafting are miles ahead of most.

Integrity and Team Player



Big names don't impress him





Biggest ambassador of the high press since Sacchi




Open minded





Dedicated even when infected



Gives you the respect of a lab rat



Tactical genius - Brain behind the Cabrini-Netto-Boniek-Riva axis




Feck votes and wins!




And of course can be a bit of cnut at times





To @Šjor Bepo

Best post of the draft!