The 4-Way Draft - QF: Sjor vs 2mufc0

With players at career peak, who will win the match?


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Edgar Allan Pillow

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VS

......................................... TEAM SJOR .......................................................................................... TEAM 2MUFC0 .........................................


TEAM SJOR

Was lucky enough to pick top 5 player of all time so would be very foolish of me not to have him as the central figure of my team - Diego Armando Maradona. The whole team is built around him, he is surrounded with complementary support cast which should give him the perfect foundations to shine on the stage. Movement, technical ability, selflessness, workrate, football brain are the ingredients I was looking for. All the while, the defense is extremely strong with the likes of Serie A legends in Paolo Maldini, Ciro Ferrara and Gigi Buffon. Perfect base to build on.

Without the ball


The plan is to stay compact and pressure when opponent steps over a certain line on the pitch. Throughout the whole team there is abundance of hard work and unselfishness starting with two willing runners up front in Shevchenko and especially Thomas Muller, supported by bundle of energy that is Edgar Davids and the legendary Paul Breitner, coolest man ever to step foot on a football pitch.
Stielike will be the link up man, switching between DM and SW position as needed, if you ignore the GOATs you can hardly find a better fit for the job. Considering the quality of my defence and work rate above them, opponent will need something special to score against this lot.

With the ball


Maradona. He is the main force of this team, has complete freedom to do anything he wants and i think i provided him a very good platform to do so. Two unselfish strikers with great movement and hold up play, both will stretch the pitch both vertically and horizontally. Behind has security in Breitner and Davids but also two players that wont mind sacrificing their own game for his benefit but in the same time Breitner will provide that touch of class and second creative option through the middle.
In addition to Diego(not that he needs help) id like to use two GOAT wingbacks to the best of their potential. As an example id use Sampaoli's Chile from WC and COPAs, both Isla and who ever played on the left were a constant threat and a big part of their creative force behind Vargas and Alexis.
And here is match compilation of Isla from the Copa just to understand the role better in a bigger sample.


TEAM 2MUFC0

With this lineup i am looking at the way to get the best out of my two star players in defence and midfield Scirea and Platini. Looking at their career peaks was for Juve in the early 80's which ultimately led to European dominance in 1985 and for Scirea world dominance with Italy in 82, i have emulated the 'Zona Mista' tactic which was perfected by Giovanni Trapattoni.

Zona mista (Italian pronunciation: [ˈdzɔːna ˈmista]; in English language: "Mixed Zone"), often referred to as Gioco all'italiana ("The Game in the Italian style"), is a tactic used in Italian association football mainly from the second half of 1970s to the mid-'90s. The introduction of this system has been attributed to Luigi Radice and Giovanni Trapattoni, then coaches of Torino and Juventus, respectively.[1] The tactic reached the highest sporting level with Trapattoni's Juventus becoming the first club in history to reach the European Treble having won the three seasonal UEFA competitions and, in 1985, the first European side to win the Intercontinental Cup since it was restructured since years before,[2] and the Italian national team, managed by Enzo Bearzot, which won the FIFA World Cup in 1982, for the first time since 1938, with outstanding participation from the Blocco-Juve;[3] making both teams between the greatest in sport's history.[4]

Regarded as the tactical evolution of catenaccio,[5] zona mista requires each outfield player to perform, systematically and simultaneously, the zonal marking and continuous attack on the spaces characteristic of totaalvoetbal, but also engaging in the defensive individual marking characteristic of Italian football. In this system, a player who moves out of his position is replaced by another from his team, thus retaining the team's intended organisational structure, and each player performs a different function. Several players, such as the libero, the wing-back (terzino fluidificante), the winger (ala tornante) and the box-to-box midfielder (mezzala) simultaneously play roles in both defense and attack, while the playmaker (regista/trequartista) (e.g. Michel Platini, Lothar Matthäus or Roberto Baggio) regularly runs to the opponents' box to try and score. This flexibility made it much more versatile, fluid and offensive than the rigid standard scheme used in Italy at the time.[5][6] Although it is one of the first to use four defenders, zona mista is aesthetically more related to formations which succeeded it: 3–5–2 and an asymmetric 4–3–3 system.[7][8]

Zona mista proved highly successful at national and international level: with it, Torino won the 1975–76 Serie A, its first after the Superga air disaster; Juventus played some of its finest football ever, setting the most enduring record in the history of Italian football by winning six league titles and two cups in ten years.[9] Juventus then extended this success to the international arena, starting in 1977 when the club won the UEFA Cup without foreign footballers, an unprecedented achievement for any country's team.[10] Subsequently, it lifted the Cup Winners' Cup, the European Champions Cup, the UEFA Super Cup and the Intercontinental Cup, making it the first, and so far only, club to have won all possible official international competitions.[11] These achievements lifted the Serie A for the first time to the top of the confederation ranking at the end of the 1985–86 season, a position maintained for the following three seasons.[12]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zona_mista

This system allows Scirea to orchestrate from the back (known as one of the best of all time in this respect) and Platini space in the middle able to create chances for the attackers and he will also be able to make runs into the box and score himself. One of his best qualities was bringing in goals from the no.10 position, he was Serie A top scorer for 3 seasons in a row, quite an accomplishment for an attacking midfielder in one of the best defensive leagues at the time.

Not sure how Sjor will lineup but a key to winning is stopping Maradonna, and i believe i have the defensive juggernaughts to stop him, Desailly if comes centrally, Gentile who is known for keeping him quiet if he comes down the left supported by Nedved/Matthaus and i have Kohler if he comes down the right.

Gentile and Matthaus are know for giving Diego a tough time, in his own words: "Diego Maradona said of Matthäus, "he is the best rival I've ever had. I guess that's enough to define him", in his book Yo soy el Diego (I am the Diego).[2]"

Team overview:

GK: Oliver Kahn at his peak level he is probably around the top of the pile when it comes to GK's, winning the golden ball in WC2002 over the likes of R9, Rivaldo etc.
CB: Gaetano Scirea one of the best ball playing CB's off all time and one of Italy's finest.
CB: Jurgen Kohler considered by some Germany's best defender of all time.
RCB/RB: Claudio Gentile the man who nullified two of the greatest no.10's on the world stage Zico & Maradonna, Gentile is more defensive minded this will allow more freedom for Cabrini to get forward
LB: Antonio Cabrini one of one of the best LB's of all time.
B2B CM: Lothar Matthaus arguably the greatest CM of all time and probably the most complete, he will link defence with attack.
DM: Desailly one of the best midfield destroyers known for his tenacity and high work rate providing screening for the defence allowing Matthaus to get forward.
RW: Pavel Nedved on the left known for his incredible work rate combined with dribbling, shooting and passing going forward, will be the workhorse going up and down the right side
LW/LF: Zbigniew Boniek pacey and tricky forward and is famous for the great link up play he had with Platini which is recreated in this side, he will also have Cabrini making overlapping runs supporting him.
AM: Platini who needs no introduction.
ST: Upfront i have one of the best no. 9's in the history of the game Marco van Basten capable of scoring impossible goals and an allround CF. He will have world class service from the Platini/Boniek/Nedved
 

Šjor Bepo

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great side @2mufc0 and good luck, would be an epic game if ever was to play it.
Just wanted to say how its a bit of a myth that Gentile stopped both Maradona and Zico, made the game tough for them? Sure, that specially goes for Zico who was toying with Gentile all game while Diego got butchered. This time they arent that close and it looks so its not that relevant but im sure Davids is also capable of similar performance if allowed to do what Gentile did in those 2 games.
 

2mufc0

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great side @2mufc0 and good luck, would be an epic game if ever was to play it.
Just wanted to say how its a bit of a myth that Gentile stopped both Maradona and Zico, made the game tough for them? Sure, that specially goes for Zico who was toying with Gentile all game while Diego got butchered. This time they arent that close and it looks so its not that relevant but im sure Davids is also capable of similar performance if allowed to do what Gentile did in those 2 games.
Thanks Sjor, you have also built a great team.

Whilst it's true that it's difficult to keep the likes of Maradona and Zico quiet all the time but when referring to Gentile he had more success than others when trying to limit their games. The main point was he is able to make it tough for him and not an opponent Diego enjoyed playing against.
 
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Enigma_87

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@Šjor Bepo that diamond :drool: I'm sucker for great ones.

@2mufc0 you have a great team mate, wonderful job drafting.

This is going to be difficult, no misfits in either teams.
 

harms

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Mouthwatering teams, both of them. The fact that I have to nitpickingly single out Ferrara and Stielike as "weak" links speaks for itself (although on the other side you have Maradona/Brehme/Cafu who are marginally better than their counterparts, even though I wouldn't trade Cabrini for Brehme for 2mufc's team)
 

harms

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Leaning towards @2mufc0. Desailly, Matthäus (who has actual pedigree) with Scirea sweeping in behind are as good as it gets with limiting Maradona, while van Basten-Boniek look quite potent against Maldini-Stielike-Ferrara, van Basten with his height advantage and Boniek trying to catch Ferrara with one of his runs. But it's still really close
 

Šjor Bepo

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@Enigma_87 i hate diamonds:lol: this is a mix between a diamond and 352 tbf so its not really a classic diamond.

@harms while i can understand Ferrara(personally i rate him higher then Gentile while we are on defenders) but i cant agree with Stielike, apart from GOATs i wouldnt swap Stielike for any other player in this system and for this specific role.

And while i agree Van Basten is a good fit for my defence i find it funny how some older ones often get an easy ride, for example someone like Chumpitaz would be described as monster in the air, Van Basten notion wouldnt probably be mentioned yet we are talking about the player who is 10cm shorter then my shortest of the three. Not relevant to this game but something i picked up along the way.
Game is finished before it even started but we can debate about stuff so the thread doesnt die as quick as my SF hopes.
 

harms

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Haven't seen Chimpitaz described as a monster in the air, and from what I've seen he wasn't Cannavaro's or Passarella-esque aerially dominant midget.

You wouldn't swap Stielike for anyone bar GOATs? Neither would I, but Desailly and Matthaus are GOATs in my book (although Desailly in the purely midfield destroyer role).
 

Šjor Bepo

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Haven't seen Chimpitaz described as a monster in the air, and from what I've seen he wasn't Cannavaro's or Passarella-esque aerially dominant midget.

You wouldn't swap Stielike for anyone bar GOATs? Neither would I, but Desailly and Matthaus are GOATs in my book (although Desailly in the purely midfield destroyer role).
dont know, for some reason i remembered Chumpitaz was often praised for his aerial capabilities.
As for Stielike, he doesnt have to be the weak link just because he isnt as good individually. If i had to choose a weak link in my team id probably go with Ferrara and attacking duo before i touched Stielike and even then wouldnt call him a weak link. Tactically absolutely perfect for me in a key role.

But thats the beauty of Diego, he elevates "lesser" teams to the higher standard
 

SirMattBugsby

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I like what @Šjor Bepo has done here. His diamond is overpowering @2mufc0 's Zona Mista. Any lingering doubts in that regard are dispelled by the presence of Maradona. The three CBs outnumber Müller and Sheva but really, that third man will only have Maradona on his mind.

2mufc does have decent threat on the counter (the positioning of Nedved and Boniek is great!), but I feel Sjor's backline can deal with it. Even if those GOAT full-backs do not come back in time, he has hard-working wide midfielders to cover for them.

For those two reasons, I fancy Sjor to win the game.

EDIT: :eek: Am I missing something?
 
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harms

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dont know, for some reason i remembered Chumpitaz was often praised for his aerial capabilities.
As for Stielike, he doesnt have to be the weak link just because he isnt as good individually. If i had to choose a weak link in my team id probably go with Ferrara and attacking duo before i touched Stielike and even then wouldnt call him a weak link. Tactically absolutely perfect for me in a key role.

But thats the beauty of Diego, he elevates "lesser" teams to the higher standard
Pretty sure it was the other way round. Last discussion I remember about him was is he a liability or not, aerially, definitely nothing about him being fantastic at it.

Regarding Stielike - he is great at allowing you transition 4-3-3 into 5-2-3, but I don't think that he is an ideal fit for Platini here - someone like Desailly would've been better in my opinion.
 

Šjor Bepo

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EDIT: :eek: Am I missing something?
2mufc has a great team as well tbf, cheers for the comments though :)

any excuse to post this, he probably cost me a few votes as many dont rate them even with current lot let alone in the all-time pool but i love him and rate him very highly. Very unique player and i reckon Maradona as a player(before the narcotics affected his brain) would love him as a teammate. The way i see it, Muller/Cafu combo down the right would be a huge asset.
Description is a bit simplistic but the footage is pretty good.
 

harms

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I like what @Šjor Bepo has done here. His diamond is overpowering @2mufc0 's Zona Mista. Any lingering doubts in that regard are dispelled by the presence of Maradona. The three CBs outnumber Müller and Sheva but really, that third man will only have Maradona on his mind.

2mufc does have decent threat on the counter (the positioning of Nedved and Boniek is great!), but I feel Sjor's backline can deal with it. Even if those GOAT full-backs do not come back in time, he has hard-working wide midfielders to cover for them.

For those two reasons, I fancy Sjor to win the game.

EDIT: :eek: Am I missing something?
Matthaus is a proven obstacle to Maradona and Desailly will limit him to an extent - that's even before we moved to the actual center backs. Plus I, personally, don't think that there is much between Platini and Maradona - even though undoubtedly the latter is the greater player, the margins are pretty much non-existent. Maradona is stronger mentally and is a better dribbler, Platini is a better goalscorer, their passing is pretty much on par
 

Šjor Bepo

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Pretty sure it was the other way round. Last discussion I remember about him was is he a liability or not, aerially, definitely nothing about him being fantastic at it.

Regarding Stielike - he is great at allowing you transition 4-3-3 into 5-2-3, but I don't think that he is an ideal fit for Platini here - someone like Desailly would've been better in my opinion.
I prefer Stielike as he is much better and comfortable on the ball which is a great asset for quick transitions. As for Platini, the plan would be to defend as a compact unit in the middle so he wouldnt be against a specific marker.
 

2mufc0

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I like what @Šjor Bepo has done here. His diamond is overpowering @2mufc0 's Zona Mista. Any lingering doubts in that regard are dispelled by the presence of Maradona. The three CBs outnumber Müller and Sheva but really, that third man will only have Maradona on his mind.

2mufc does have decent threat on the counter (the positioning of Nedved and Boniek is great!), but I feel Sjor's backline can deal with it. Even if those GOAT full-backs do not come back in time, he has hard-working wide midfielders to cover for them.

For those two reasons, I fancy Sjor to win the game.

EDIT: :eek: Am I missing something?
Thanks for the comments, I've got 3 cb's plus Desailly plus Matthäus was no slouch tracking back either.
 

2mufc0

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On the subject of Matthäus found a good video of him at the workd cup, he was superb, really the driving force in midfield

 

Šjor Bepo

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On the subject of Matthäus found a good video of him at the workd cup, he was superb, really the driving force in midfield

Fantastic world cup but thats what you get from him in the main role when he pulls the strings and everything goes through him, in your team he is in a support role to Platini so its a totally different ball game.
 

2mufc0

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Fantastic world cup but thats what you get from him in the main role when he pulls the strings and everything goes through him, in your team he is in a support role to Platini so its a totally different ball game.
He's not playing the exact same role but with Desailly being more defensive minded he will have the freedom to push forward with his driving runs and link defence with attack. So imo we are likely to see him do similar things.
 

Šjor Bepo

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He's not playing the exact same role but with Desailly being more defensive minded he will have the freedom to push forward with his driving runs and link defence with attack. So imo we are likely to see him do similar things.
didnt watch the vid, was commenting his whole performance that WC as im pretty familiar with it because i watched almost all games for the remake draft.
 

SirMattBugsby

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any excuse to post this, he probably cost me a few votes as many dont rate them even with current lot let alone in the all-time pool but i love him and rate him very highly. Very unique player and i reckon Maradona as a player(before the narcotics affected his brain) would love him as a teammate. The way i see it, Muller/Cafu combo down the right would be a huge asset.
Müller is the best! He'll be a nightmare to mark for zona mista defenders. He and Maradona combining to create moves and Shevchenko finishing them is why I thought your attack works.

Matthaus is a proven obstacle to Maradona and Desailly will limit him to an extent - that's even before we moved to the actual center backs. Plus I, personally, don't think that there is much between Platini and Maradona - even though undoubtedly the latter is the greater player, the margins are pretty much non-existent. Maradona is stronger mentally and is a better dribbler, Platini is a better goalscorer, their passing is pretty much on par
Thanks for the comments, I've got 3 cb's plus Desailly plus Matthäus was no slouch tracking back either.
There are three midfielders behind Maradona. If one of Matthäus or Desailly follows Maradona, they get outnumbered in midfield 2 to 3. In that case, Sjor dominates possession and one of Breitner or Davids will find himself free to move forward and join the attack.

The way I see it, Sjor has numerical superiority in the middle. This gives Maradona an opportunity to advance which in turn means it's one of the CBs who'll have to deal with him more often than not. Now those back three are as good as it gets but one-on-one against Diego? I back him to win half of those duels, either by beating his man or finding one of the front two in a position to score/assist.

As for Platini vs Maradona, the setup of both teams suits their individual qualities and both of them will create good chances. But it's Breitner, Davids and the full-backs which give Sjor a tactical advantage imo. They provide extra bodies in attack and also make the team less prone to counter-attack.
 
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oneniltothearsenal

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Was Schuster available for Sjor? If so he.missed a trick. Maradona had great words for his partnership with Schuster. Would be better than Breitner here.
Yes Sjor could have picked Schuster and that is a great point. Schuster would have fit that role Breitner is in like a glove and IMO been stronger there as Breitner is a little out of his best zone.
 

Šjor Bepo

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Was Schuster available for Sjor? If so he.missed a trick. Maradona had great words for his partnership with Schuster. Would be better than Breitner here.
he was, i know they had a good understanding(thats why i was pissed when crappy originally drafted him) but it lasted way to short for me to take Schuster over Breitner based on "partnership" alone.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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he was, i know they had a good understanding(thats why i was pissed when crappy originally drafted him) but it lasted way to short for me to take Schuster over Breitner based on "partnership" alone.
Well, from Diego's comments, it was a partnership he loved. He called Schuster a genius or something, didn't he? Surely that should count enough. Without Breitnigge, Schuster should get the edge here.
 

Šjor Bepo

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Well, from Diego's comments, it was a partnership he loved. He called Schuster a genius or something, didn't he? Surely that should count enough. Without Breitnigge, Schuster should get the edge here.
I prefer Breitner and IMO partnership wasnt as strong for me to not pick him + there is a potential for Breitnigge as well. Either way, Schuster or Breitner it wouldnt change one bit....
 

oneniltothearsenal

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As opposed to left back? Or team dynamics here?
Just the midfield, I feel Schuster works better with with Davids and Stielike as combination in addition to the Diego angle. Breitner is fine there, just think Schuster combos better with the other players. Didn't think about it until I read your post though so nothing major.
 

oneniltothearsenal

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@Joga Bonito @Balu what was Breitner in midfield like? All action like Robson or a passer like Scholes? Any comparable player?
For me he had elements of all action and passing master with his own style. Anto called him anarchic once which I thought was really appropriate. Here are a few I had saved. Really love watching Breitner myself. I guess for me I think Breitner could do the role asked of him extremely well, but peak Schuster (whom I recently watched due to Pillow using him in NT draft) would just be the perfect player for that exact tactic and personnel IMO.



 
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