The 4-Way Draft R1: idmanager vs P-Nut

With players at peak, who will win this match?


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  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

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........................................ TEAM IDMANAGER ................................................................................. TEAM P-NUT ........................................

Team idmanager

Formation: 4-2-3-1
I have tried to make a side which is rock solid defensively while still having a good number of outlets to score going forward.

Defense:
In goal is Walter Zenga, 3 continuous times winner of the World's best Goalkeeper award.
Ahead of him in the centre of the defence are Passarella and Bergomi, two of the greatest defenders of all time. While Passarella is easily the standout defender on the pitch, Bergomi was a warrior with an exceptional reading of the game, which allowed him to mark the likes of Rummenigge, van Basten, Gullit and Maradona completely out of games. Passarella would not venture forward with the ball and any support from him to initiate plays would be from the back. On the right of the defence is Burgnich who was a rock solid defender who was strong, large, quick, energitic player who was probably only next best to Bergomi when it came to defending his flank. Burgnich would not contribute anything offensively. His job would be to sit back and defend his flank. He would have support from Figo who was decent tracking back and Tardelli chipping in when required in 2 vs 1 situations. On the left of the defence is Roberto Carlos in the wing back role. He was probably one of the very few wingbacks in history who could own a flank on his own. He would have support from Passarella and Sammer to cover up when required. Burgnich was also equally adept at playing the role of a CB. When Carlos joins the attack, Burgnich would tuck inside to form a 3 CB defence at the back.


Midfield:
In midfield I have Tardelli and Sammer, two players who were not only brilliant defensively with high energy and stamina to cover large amounts of the ground, but were also technically sound and could contribute offensively. Both the players were capable of linking the midfield to the forward line and initiate attacks. Their primary job would be to sit in front of the CBs and sheild the defense when not in possesion and win the ball back. Depending on the situation, one of them would then bring the ball forward to link with the attack (either through the wings or through the inside forwards) while the other stays back in the holding role in front of the defense to protect the team from counters.

Attack:

The attack is setup in such a way to hit the opposition's biggest weaknesses and nullify their strengths, while using our attackers in their best suited roles with multiple routes to goal. While Carlos offers width from the left flank, Figo would be attacking and providing width from the right flank. Baggio would be playing in the inside left role, while Meazza would be playing from the inside right. Both of them are one of the GOATs of their respective positions. Both of them are capable of dropping a bit deep if required to receive the ball and link the attack. Leading the line in front of them would be Eto'o who was fast, strong, and energetic forward, who is known for his stamina, work-rate, ability in the air, and his accurate finishing ability both with his head and feet. He literally is one of the perfect strikers for this setup and foe the 4 major creators in the team in Meazza, Baggio, Figo and Carlos.
Carlos-Sammer-Baggio and Figo-Tardelli-Meazza are two beautiful triangles to build up attacks.

Thoughts on opposition:

Its clear that the opposition's defensive weakness lies in the fullback area (None of his options are defensively tight and can be exploited). While Carlos-Baggio is a brilliant flank which would terrorize most fullbacks, the right flank has to be looked at with more detail. Meazza in his peak in the 1934 and 1938 WCs, both of which Italy won, played this exact same role to devastating effect. He would be flanked by a winger on the right, a quick lethal striker up top and an inside left to work with.
This is the ideal setup for him to shine with Figo, Etoo and Baggio playing the aforementioned roles.
Meazza + Figo especially is going to be a nightmare for the opposition, especially if Marcelo starts at the left. Considering how often he went forward leaving gaps behind, he would be murdered and leak goals all through the game. Meazza although an inside forward, would exploit the gap behind Marcelo whenever possible considering he would leave lots of it with Figo to handle.

One of oppositions strengths that would need more attention is that of Makelele who would try to stop everything moving through the centre. The beauty of playing Baggio-Meazza in the inside left/right roles, leaves him with more than one creative player to deal with in the space just above the defense.

Its clear that the opposition attack is world class, but I feel I have the right setup and players to shut it down. While Gento with Marcelo looks tasty, Burgnich is capable and fast enough to handle them. Figo and Tardelli would help him out when required to avoid 2 vs 1 situations. While Sammer and Tardelli are defensively astute to handle Di Stefano, the argentine would have to drop deep for the ball considering Makelele would hardly contribute to the linking while Seedorf will have his hands full to help against my right sided attack. This leaves Puskas upfront who while being a brilliant shooter, was never really played in a single striker setup and excelled more as a SS. Not only would he not have too many chance to drop deep which he liked, he was not a tall guy with heading ability. Gento raked up his assists because he always had 2 options upfront. 1 to the feet of SS Puskas, the other to the main centre forward of the team who could head it in. I feel Gento's threat reduces a fair amount here without any head to target to most times. Not to forget, Puskas would be up against Passarella and Bergomi.
While Carlos was not a defensive liability, he might leave gaps behind for Robben to exploit. Robben's threat came from cutting inside where he would have to get past Passarella and Sammer to have an impact which would be no cake walk.


Team P-Nut


Defence

Casillias
Camacho Santamaria Hierro Marcelo

Attacking full backs flanking 2 completely solid centrebacks.

Camacho is probably the least known player of the lot, however was one of Real Madrids longest serving players spending his entire career there and making close to 600 appearances.

Midfield

----Makelele
-----------Seedorf
Di Stefano

The fulcrum of the side really. A midfield that has everything and allows one of the greatest ever players to make full use of his talents.

Makelele in the position he made his own. He'll be the sitter as usual and everyone knows what he'll bring to the game.

Seedorf will provide support both to the attack and defence. Endless stamina getting back and forwards makes this midfield a nightmare to play against.

Di Stefano - the star of the side. Everything has been tailor made to allow him to have the biggest influence on the game possible. There is no other true playmaker in my side so he can run the game as he sees fit. With Seedorf and Makelele in the side he won't need to work back as often as he usually does, and he can feel free to do as he chooses.

Attack

Robben - Puskas - Gento

A deadly front three. Puskas and Gento have amazing chemistry between them and will obviously be combining with Di Stefano constantly.

Robben brings something completely different to Gento on the opposite side and will be completely free to cut inside in his usual style whilst Gento provides the width on the opposite side.

Key relationships

Di Stefano - Gento - Puskas

Reals own version of the holy trinity are all capable of completely destroying teams. Natural chemistry between them means they will all be on the same wavelength.

Marcelo - Seedorf - Gento

The left side of the field is a defenders nightmare. Marcelo and Gento provide extreme width whilst Seedorf supports in both phases of the game.
 

Oaencha

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Good luck to both of you. I will have a read before making a decision.

Those crazy, crazy arrows! Have you been doping your players?!
 

idmanager

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Heyy we are Inter Milan. If we can demand 50 mn for Perisic, we can fit in a couple dozen arrows too :cool::D
 

P-Nut

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Initial thoughts on the match up.

Seedorf is going to be key. His running from deep should allow Di Stefano to get one on one with the defensive midfielders. And that's when he is deadly. Also if the defensive midfielders really want to limit him they are going to have to track him everywhere. And that will pull the shape all over the place.
 

Ecstatic

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Gento/Marcelo is the best flank offensively but Figo/Burgnish is a flank very strong defensively. Bergomi will be at ease to cover Burgnish

Robben can't rely on Camacho offensively, the latter being very conservative/defensive. Kopa was more creative & playmaker than Robben but - of course - the latter is a sharp player.

The creativity of Pnut mainly relies on the greatest player on the pitch Di stefano but idmanager possesses 2 creative and smart players: Baggio & Meazza.
 

idmanager

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Gento-Marcelo is great going forward, but will definitely be less productive considering there is no one who can head it in upfront with Puskas all alone who wasn't tall or known for his heading.
 

Šjor Bepo

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You can actually follow the arrows from burgnich all the way back to him if there was a downward arrow from etoo to meazza.
you can actually start from Figo/Meazza and you finish at Etoo, almost a full circle!:drool:
 

idmanager

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Wow, did not expect the arrows to have that effect on a game considering they are the simplest to way to show the zones of play the players would be impacting.

Wasn't too confident going into the match considering the Madrid attack I was facing but was looking for some discussion or pointers beyond the arrows.

@Edgar Allan Pillow , I would like to forfeit the game before I make more of a joke of myself :lol:

@P-Nut0712 , Pretty sure you would have won the game either ways with a big margin even without the arrows :), so good luck for the rest of the draft.
 

P-Nut

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Wow, did not expect the arrows to have that effect on a game considering they are the simplest to way to show the zones of play the players would be impacting.

Wasn't too confident going into the match considering the Madrid attack I was facing but was looking for some discussion or pointers beyond the arrows.

@Edgar Allan Pillow , I would like to forfeit the game before I make more of a joke of myself :lol:

@P-Nut0712 , Pretty sure you would have won the game either ways with a big margin even without the arrows :), so good luck for the rest of the draft.
This is nowhere near over yet mate don't give in so soon. People change votes all the time. 3 swung votes makes the game go in your favour.

Obviously going to be a struggle after admitting I'd win but you shouldn't give up so easily mate.
 

oneniltothearsenal

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:lol: I think every match has had a team with crazy arrows so far

and @Ecstatic opening old wounds :(
 

idmanager

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This is nowhere near over yet mate don't give in so soon. People change votes all the time. 3 swung votes makes the game go in your favour.

Obviously going to be a struggle after admitting I'd win but you shouldn't give up so easily mate.
Didn't give in because of the scoreline obviously mate. Dont mind losing 20-0 for all I care.
Did give a good amount of time researching and making tactics and if the discussion comes down to arrows rather than tactics, its not worth the effort. Cheers!
 

2mufc0

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Not sure if the arrows are putting people off but I'm not too sure either why the scoreline as is, both quality teams but can see Carlos and Baggio having good games here and a Tardelli /Sammer midfield will be hard to get through.
 

oneniltothearsenal

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Sorry @P-Nut0712 but I simply can't vote for Camacho at RB. Baggio and Carlos are going to really enjoy that mismatch. I do think the extensive arrows probably hurts the presentation.
 

antohan

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Didn't give in because of the scoreline obviously mate. Dont mind losing 20-0 for all I care.
Did give a good amount of time researching and making tactics and if the discussion comes down to arrows rather than tactics, its not worth the effort. Cheers!
The arrows only help underscore what's wrong with your defence. You have two defensive rightbacks on the right and an attacking leftback and a libero on the left.
 

idmanager

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The arrows only help underscore what's wrong with your defence. You have two defensive rightbacks on the right and an attacking leftback and a libero on the left.
Bergomi is a proven CB. And not all formations need a offensive RB, especially when the winger is Figo. Pretty sure most of the scanners didn't read the Meazza role and how it was a mapping of his 1934-38 role for Italy and how it would impact the right wing.

Sammer is not playing the libero role there. He is a Defensive midfielder shielding an attacking LB. He is more than capable at playing a defensive B2B. Try reading the tactics next time. If you meant Passarella, I mentioned his role too. He is not playing the libero role there. But guess u didnt read that.

I think drafts work best when you have a pre decided set of voters (known people who are obviously aware and judge in a proper way based on past drafts) with a template for tactics. For example, my opponent I am sure has not put too much interest into how I would setup shop. Read the tactics.

Doesn't matter anymore, but it does impact games. The under dog trying to out maneuver a squad with better players with tactics doesn't really work out here I guess.
 
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oneniltothearsenal

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Didn't give in because of the scoreline obviously mate. Dont mind losing 20-0 for all I care.
Did give a good amount of time researching and making tactics and if the discussion comes down to arrows rather than tactics, its not worth the effort. Cheers!
Its not because of the arrows, I think all of us went overboard on arrows at some point so its just a bit of fun. I know my first draft I went overboard making a zig zag arrow that made Zico look like he was "getting hit with a lightning bolt". The arrows on Passarella, Bergomi, Burgnich, Tardelli, Sammer and even Figo are just unnecessary really. If you look at tactical sites like zonal marking arrows tend to be used minimally to convey specific or unusual movement.

I think the issue with your defense is it would be more balance if you swapped Bergomi and Passarella Carlos-Bergomi-Passarella-Burgnich.

Considering you are facing a proven legendary combo - Di Stefano+Puskas - I do think you might have to do a little persuading even with a defense with players with outstanding resumes because you are facing a greater than the sum of the parts combo and the parts themselves are legends. You can't just assume writing a strong OP is enough. Sometimes you have to highlight tactical aspects you want to emphasize.
 

idmanager

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I think the issue with your defense is it would be more balance if you swapped Bergomi and Passarella Carlos-Bergomi-Passarella-Burgnich.
That would be terrible. Passarella is a left footed player who never played as a RCB ever.
More importantly below is what I mentioned in my tactics.

Passarella would not venture forward with the ball and any support from him to initiate plays would be from the back.
Passarella wasn't all time top 5 great just because of his libero skills. He was a great great defender first.
I can't help it if u make assumptions by scanning the picture rather than reading my notes.

Considering you are facing a proven legendary combo - Di Stefano+Puskas - I do think you might have to do a little persuading even with a defense with players with outstanding proven resumes because you are facing a greater than the sum of the parts combo and the parts themselves are legends.
Again, try reading my tactics. I have notes on all of the front three. Can't help it if people dont read.
While we are at it, my opponent doesn't even mention a single of my player's name. Unless of course, you think Baggio,Meazza, Figo etc are crap. Looks like Marcelo is going to have a easy day against Meazza and Figo.
 
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idmanager

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The arrows on Passarella, Bergomi, Burgnich, Tardelli, Sammer and even Figo are just unnecessary really. If you look at tactical sites like zonal marking arrows tend to be used minimally to convey specific or unusual movement.
I never argued my arrows were more or less. This was my first draft and obviously I didn't know how much was enough and a good lesson learnt. But they should not impact the game unless they are wrong tactically.
 

oneniltothearsenal

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I never argued my arrows were more or less. This was my first draft and obviously I didn't know how much was enough and a good lesson learnt. But they should not impact the game unless they are wrong tactically.
I don't think anyone is voting based on arrows mate. As I said the comments were just in good fun because we've all done it before :)
And I voted for you! so I am only guessing as to why people might have voted for Pnut
 

idmanager

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I think you used less arrows than I did, so I see no issues there :p
I was initially wondering if I had used too many but then after your game I decided it was okay as I counted the number of arrows in both :lol:

Heyy, I am not bitter about losing. Clarifying because my last few posts might make it look that way.

Just that I was very excited for my first draft match and it was pissed all over for stupid reasons.

Its funny, I have had more discussions in the Barca and Cantona matches than on here in my game :lol:

Anyways, my last post moaning. Sorry if I offended anyone. Cheers!
 

idmanager

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I don't think anyone is voting based on arrows mate. As I said the comments were just in good fun because we've all done it before :)
And I voted for you! so I am only guessing as to why people might have voted for Pnut
Maybe not fully, but quite a few didn't read stuff or just moved on because of the arrows. That I am sure. On paper, I would always lose to fecking Puskas-Gento-Di Stefano. Already admitted that.
 

antohan

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Bergomi is a proven CB. And not all formations need a offensive RB, especially when the winger is Figo. Pretty sure most of the scanners didn't read the Meazza role and how it was a mapping of his 1934-38 role for Italy and how it would impact the right wing.

Sammer is not playing the libero role there. He is a Defensive midfielder shielding an attacking LB. He is more than capable at playing a defensive B2B. Try reading the tactics next time. If you meant Passarella, I mentioned his role too. He is not playing the libero role there. But guess u didnt read that.
No, I didn't because I know I don't like the back four whatever the instructions. Carlos-Passarella on the left and I have a very long history. I rate Passarella as a defender but don't see what's the point in playing him in a suboptimal setup for him. Same with Bergomi here, I rate him as CB particularly if he is covering an attacking fullback.

So you essentially have four excellent players, and they can perform to the instructions you laid out, but they aren't as good then and certainly add to less than the sum of parts.

I think drafts work best when you have a pre decided set of voters (known people who are obviously aware and judge in a proper way based on past drafts) with a template for tactics. For example, my opponent I am sure has not put too much interest into how I would setup shop. Read the tactics.

Doesn't matter anymore, but it does impact games. The under dog trying to out maneuver a squad with better players with tactics doesn't really work out here I guess.
I agree with you there in that it shouldn't just be the shiny names. On a sidenote, that's exactly what doesn't sit right with me with your defence while I can see that Real side working straight away (bar Robben, your Figo would be a better fit).

Funny enough, back when writeups had a character-limit upsets were more common. I must have won a fair few games on the back of not a lot more than "X has better players so I'm parking the bus and hitting him on the break all game long" and people assessing the likelihood of that working based on 3-4 key points.

The moment people started writing walls of text it completely went out of the window. If it's important it should jump at you on the teamsheet or over the course of the discussion.
 

idmanager

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No, I didn't because I know I don't like the back four whatever the instructions. Carlos-Passarella on the left and I have a very long history. I rate Passarella as a defender but don't see what's the point in playing him in a suboptimal setup for him. Same with Bergomi here, I rate him as CB particularly if he is covering an attacking fullback.

So you essentially have four excellent players, and they can perform to the instructions you laid out, but they aren't as good then and certainly add to less than the sum of parts.



I agree with you there in that it shouldn't just be the shiny names. On a sidenote, that's exactly what doesn't sit right with me with your defence while I can see that Real side working straight away (bar Robben, your Figo would be a better fit).

Funny enough, back when writeups had a character-limit upsets were more common. I must have won a fair few games on the back of not a lot more than "X has better players so I'm parking the bus and hitting him on the break all game long" and people assessing the likelihood of that working based on 3-4 key points.

The moment people started writing walls of text it completely went out of the window. If it's important it should jump at you on the teamsheet or over the course of the discussion.
That is fair enough but I dont see any point in reading the rest of your post when you dont think its necessary to read a short write up before voting. No offence. Please dont mind.
 
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Skizzo

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I was initially wondering if I had used too many but then after your game I decided it was okay as I counted the number of arrows in both :lol:

Heyy, I am not bitter about losing. Clarifying because my last few posts might make it look that way.

Just that I was very excited for my first draft match and it was pissed all over for stupid reasons.

Its funny, I have had more discussions in the Barca and Cantona matches than on here in my game :lol:

Anyways, my last post moaning. Sorry if I offended anyone. Cheers!
No need to apologize, drafts can bring out the best and worst in the involved managers and the voters/posters. Don't take anything to heart that's said or posted.

I understand the disappointment you have though. There's been a few teams that @Pat_Mustard and i drafted and had a great feeling about, and then we had a first round exit and no one else seemed to really enjoy what we were going for :lol: as long as you enjoyed the draft and presenting your team, that's all that matters.

And trust me, people do read the tactics. You'd be surprised how many times someone will pull up a minute detail you posted and overlooked in the OP :D
 

idmanager

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No need to apologize, drafts can bring out the best and worst in the involved managers and the voters/posters. Don't take anything to heart that's said or posted.

I understand the disappointment you have though. There's been a few teams that @Pat_Mustard and i drafted and had a great feeling about, and then we had a first round exit and no one else seemed to really enjoy what we were going for :lol: as long as you enjoyed the draft and presenting your team, that's all that matters.

And trust me, people do read the tactics. You'd be surprised how many times someone will pull up a minute detail you posted and overlooked in the OP :D
That is good to know and thanks for the kind words. Cheers.
 

P-Nut

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@idmanager I didn't mention your players in my write up because I wasn't sure how you would line up, so instead of guessing I focused on what I could do with my side.

Bringing in Seedorf early in the drafting process is what has made my team for me and I feel he would be so key here. He limits what you can do to stop Stefano running the game really as his running from deep would prove to be so dangerous if the 2 dms stepped up to press Stefano
 

idmanager

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@idmanager I didn't mention your players in my write up because I wasn't sure how you would line up, so instead of guessing I focused on what I could do with my side.
Well, after the tactics were mentioned and thread was opened to till now, I don't see any defense for any of your players from my analysis of your team and your weaknesses I mentioned. I didn't do this same because there was nothing from your end. So technically I would argue that maybe you didn't read my tactics too or decided they didnt warrant a defense.
 
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P-Nut

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Well, after the tactics were mentioned and thread was opened to till now, I don't see any defense for any of your players from my analysis of your team and your weaknesses I mentioned. I didn't do this same because there was nothing from your end. So technically I would argue that maybe you didn't read my tactics too or decided they didnt warrant a discussion
I've read it and agree with bits of it. However, things like the 2 inside forwards causing headaches doesn't really stand up as it just allows my defence to become really narrow. Also Seedorf and Di Stefano are more than capable of dropping into those areas alongside Makelele and make the midfield area solid as a rock.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Don't really think Puskas is the best man to lead the list e in a 4231.

Two liberos, two right backs, it's an interesting team. I can understand the fit, but would have preferred different dedicated players in place of Bergomi and Sammer.