The 4-Way Draft R1: Sjor vs crappy

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

VS

............................................ TEAM SJOR ........................................................................................... TEAM CRAPPY ............................................



TEAM SJOR


Was lucky enough to pick top 5 player of all time so would be very foolish of me not to have him as the central figure of my team - Diego Armando Maradona. The whole team is built around him, he is surrounded with complementary support cast which should give him the perfect foundations to shine on the stage. Movement, technical ability, selflessness, workrate, football brain are the ingredients I was looking for. All the while, the defense is extremely strong with the likes of Serie A legends in Paolo Maldini, Ciro Ferrara and Gigi Buffon. Perfect base to build on.

Without the ball

The plan is to stay compact and pressure when opponent steps over a certain line on the pitch. Throughout the whole team there is abundance of hard work and unselfishness starting with two willing runners up front in Shevchenko and especially Heynckes, supported by two bundles of energy in Edgar Davids and Arturo Vidal.
Stielike will be the link up man, switching between DM and SW position as situation needed, if you ignore the GOATs you can hardly find a better fit for the job. Considering the quality of my defence and work rate above them, opponent will need something special to score against this lot.

With the ball

Maradona. He is the main force of this team, has complete freedom to do anything he wants and i think i provided him a very good platform to do so. Two unselfish strikers with great movement and hold up play, both will stretch the pitch both vertically and horizontally. Behind has security in Vidal and Davids but also two players that wont mind sacrificing their own game for his benefit.
In addition to Diego(not that he needs help) id like to use two GOAT wingbacks to the best of their potential. As an example id use Sampaoli's Chile from WC and COPAs, both Isla and who ever played on the left were a constant threat and a big part of their creative force behind Vargas and Alexis.

Spoiler: Chile WC 14

And here is match compilation of Isla from the Copa just to understand the role better in a bigger sample.

Spoiler: Isla vs Uruguay

TEAM CRAPPY

Formation: Balanced 4-3-3

Defence:

A study back 4 with a mix of flair and solidity. Schwarzenbeck reprises his partnership with Breitner. Dynamics with Vasovic should be similar to the success he enjoyed with Beckenbauer. Suurbier's attacking runs would go well with Schuster's distribution and Kalle's brilliance upfront.

Midfield:

All familiar names. Rijkaard plays the defensive shied who can drop back into defence or move up as the game dictates. familiar role for him. Schuster provides the vision and distribution from the right midfield. Lerby on left hand provides the ideal balance for the brilliance of Breitner. He can protect the flank and contribute to both ends supporting attack and defence.

Attack:

No introduction needed any of them. Muller spearheading the attack with Rensenbrink's pace and trickery on left flank and Kalle in a free roaming role on the right ensures he's never short of opportunities. Lerby, Breitner and Schuster all capable of providing the defence splitting long pass.

Why I'll win:

+ Good balance of workrate and flair all through the team.
+ Opponent's relative lack of width. With a centralized approach he lacks the wingers to exploit space behind my attacking fullbacks consistently throughout the match.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@Šjor Bepo @crappycraperson All the best

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Since I made picks for crappy, I'll refrain from voting in this match.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Since I made picks for crappy, I'll refrain from voting in this match.

you can vote and participate in the game its perfectly fine with me. Good luck @crappycraperson

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Jupp in the Euro Final, plays from the right(id expect Sheva and him swapping sides all the time) but you can see the ability and workrate he possessed. Is comfortable playing all over the front line which is perfect as i want as much movement as you can get with Diego behind.
And few more gifs from @Joga Bonito .

Agreed with those points.


Here are some gifs of Jupp Heynckes, for those who don't know much about him apart from his goalscoring records, which was nothing short of tremendous to say the least.


To reiterate

• 3rd highest goalscorer in Bundesliga history
  
• Bundesliga top scorer: 1973–74, 1974–75
• European Cup top scorer: 1975–76
• UEFA Cup Winners' Cup top scorer: 1973–74
• UEFA Cup top scorer: 1972–73, 1974–75
• Scored five goals in 2 UEFA Cup Finals
• 23 goals in 21 games in the UEFA Cup - only member in the top 10 goalscoring lists to have scored at a ratio of over a goal per game.
• 51 goals in 64 matches in European club competitions - Average of 0.8 goals per match only bettered by compatriot Gerd Müller
  
• UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament: 1972

As stated in the OP his all-round game was excellent and he wasn't just a static and an opportunistic goalscorer but rather a fairly complete forward who had his share of pace and threat on the ball outside the box. Qualities which allowed him to thrive in the fluid Gladbach vintage (which won 4 Bundesliga against Beckenbauer's Bayern) and function seamlessly (as an inside right alongside Der Bomber) in Germany's greatest side ever in 1972 which won the Euros.

Spoiler: Heynckes goals, dribbling and movement

Running the inside left channels and playing the perfect return pass for Netzer - some one two that although credit largely needs to go to Netzer ofc

A quickfire goal from outside the box with great movement

Another goal where he exhibits great movement to capitalise on Netzer's creativity and scores against La Grande Inter in the European Cup

Scores in the UEFA Cup Final against the dippers with a cracking curler from the inside left channel, with Rupp functioning as the centre-forward

Shows excellent trickery to get past his man and put in an dangerous ball

Once again Netzer picks out Heynckes on the left and Heynckes exhibits his threat on the ball outside the box and creates a nice assist for Jensen after beating two men.

So of course, it won't just be Heynckes lurking around in the far post waiting for a scrappy tap in. He'd actively be providing options for others on the ball, esp Rivera, and constantly looking to exploit the left hand channels with his terrific movement on the ball and dynamism. The ball-carrying threat isn't just limited to Donadoni from the wider areas and it's a nicely balanced duo with Heynckes offering a more incisive goalscoring threat and Donadoni offering plenty of width and quality service. That too without accounting for the supporting threat of the full-backs Reuter & Bossis.

In addition to his 5 UEFA Cup final goals,

Spoiler: Heynckes hat-trick

His second goal

Heynckes played a starring role in the 1972 Euros final against Khurtsilava's Soviet Union - playing a direct role in all 3 of Germany's goals.

Spoiler: Heynckes masterclass vs Soviet Union

(Heynckes rifles in a shot and Der Bomber converts the rebound for the opener)

(Great ball for Wimmer for the second from the inside left channels)

(Fantastic reverse pass for Der Bomber's second and the game's third)

A replay of that reverse pass. Schwarzenbeck

Spoiler: Heynckes goals

A collection of his goals from the 2 mins mark to the 4.45 min mark for those interested. Some brilliant ones in there.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Why I'll win:

+ Good balance of workrate and flair all through the team.
+ Opponent's relative lack of width. With a centralized approach he lacks the wingers to exploit space behind my attacking fullbacks consistently throughout the match.

1. Can say the same for my team.
2. Disagree on the second, first, its a perfect setup for comfortably the best player on the pitch and second, i have two God tier offensive wingbacks in a setup where they have the perfect foundations to influence the game in the final third.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

2. Disagree on the second, first, its a perfect setup for comfortably the best player on the pitch and second, i have two God tier offensive wingbacks in a setup where they have the perfect foundations to influence in the game in the final third.

There's a difference between wide threat offered by wingers vs wingbacks. I mentioned that because Suurbier has a reputation here. Without a wingers to exploit the space behind consistently, he should be ok to hold his own against your fullbacks.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Diego vs Rijkaard
Not many can get the better of Rijkaard but Diego was one of them. Lead Napoli into finishing above Milan in two out of three seasons where both played for their respective clubs and played some absolute gems against not only Rijkaard but one of the best defensive teams in history of the game.
88/89 - Napoli second, Milan third
89/90 - Napoli first, Milan second
90/91 - Milan second, Napoli eighth

 

[Šjor Bepo]

There's a difference between wide threat offered by wingers vs wingbacks. I mentioned that because Suurbier has a reputation here. Without a wingers to exploit the space behind consistently, he should be ok to hold his own against your fullbacks.

sure there is a difference but if you see my OP you will see that in my game plan is to have wingbacks very high and with both Jupp and Sheva liking to move out wide there will be a lot of overlapping there for there will be a change of Cafu and Brehme to go behind.

 

[2mufc0]

Diego vs Rijkaard
Not many can get the better of Rijkaard but Diego was one of them. Lead Napoli into finishing above Milan in two out of three seasons where both played for their respective clubs and played some absolute gems against not only Rijkaard but one of the best defensive teams in history of the game.
88/89 - Napoli second, Milan third
89/90 - Napoli first, Milan second
90/91 - Milan second, Napoli eighth

Not a fan of comparing individuals by team results.

What position did Diego play for Napoli? In those clips lot of his play is in wide areas.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Not a fan of comparing individuals by team results.

What position did Diego play for Napoli? In those clips lot of his play is in wide areas.

watched those clips few days ago so cant be 100% sure but most likely as a 10 with complete freedom, thats where he played for majority of his Napoli career and thats where he plays in my team.

Yeah, usually im not either but for certain players works(for Diego at least, maybe unfair on Rijkaard). For example, if you ask 100 people who had the better WC, Maradona(86) or Cruyff(74) you will get the same answer from all - Diego. Reverse just the final results and you will get 100 different answers.

 

[harms]

Awful work on the formation pic, @Šjor Bepo, the team looks divided and disorganised The team itself is pretty much flawless. But then, so is crappy's.

Too bad that we won't see Breitenigge though. Is Müller going to decide this one as usual?

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Too bad that we won't see Breitenigge though.

Yeah. Couldn't find another left back at the last moment. If we progress, you'll see them together.

 

[Isotope]

Great teams. I really can't decide. Although wasn't Heynckes usually play on the right?

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Great teams. I really can't decide. Although wasn't Heynckes usually play on the right?

For Germany yes, for Gladbach he played all over(left, right, n9) the front line from what i know and here he will play on both sides, as both him and Sheva are comfortable on either side so id like them to switch sides when ever they want.

 

[Isotope]

For Germany yes, for Gladbach he played all over(left, right, n9) the front line from what i know and here he will play on both sides, as both him and Sheva are comfortable on either side id like them to switch sides when ever they want.

Voted for yours then. I think yours have the right players for Maradona.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

7-0

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

He is built to play through centre which crappy is well set to counter. Rijkaard vs Maradona is break even imo. And Schuster and Lerby will provide lots of support here. Plus Vasovic is a class act himself.

But Rensenbrink and Kalle will drift into spaces once his fullbacks move up and it'll be a quick and brutal on the counter.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

What are the two themes here btw?

 

[Šjor Bepo]

What are the two themes here btw?

what do you mean? We both picked manager pool if thats the question.

 

[idmanager]

I am not just asking this because he is a current modern player, but do people consider Vidal among the other elites in that midfield.
I like him, but I think he doesn't belong there.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

He is built to play through centre which crappy is well set to counter. Rijkaard vs Maradona is break even imo. And Schuster and Lerby will provide lots of support here. Plus Vasovic is a class act himself.

But Rensenbrink and Kalle will drift into spaces once his fullbacks move up and it'll be a quick and brutal on the counter.

i can accept the rijkaard argument even though i dont agree but i just cant agree with the centre argument because IMO its wrong.
One of the best assets this team has is the wing play and while i dont have fb/wr combinations i was intentally picking players that both liked pulling out wide and are comfortable wide. Diego was always drifting all over the place, both strikers liked to go wide, same can be said for Arturo and Davids and then you have 2 Gods on wingbacks in Cafu and Brehme.

I am not just asking this because he is a current modern player, but do people consider Vidal among the other elites in that midfield.
I like him, but I think he doesn't belong there.

you cant have GOATs in every position, obviously as i picked him IMO he isnt out of place here and i wouldnt say he is worse then Lerby for example. People will probably rate him as the lesser one but modern players are often underrated in drafts.

 

[idmanager]

you cant have GOATs in every position, obviously as i picked him IMO he isnt out of place here and i wouldnt say he is worse then Lerby for example. People will probably rate him as the lesser one but modern players are often underrated in drafts.

Completely agree. Which is why wanted to know how others rate him.
When it comes to me, I don't rate him in the Keana, Vieira, Ballack tier too from the more recent lot.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Completely agree. Which is why wanted to know how others rate him.
When it comes to me, I don't rate him in the Keana, Vieira, Ballack tier too from the more recent lot.

I don't rate Lerby in that company either. Vidal is not inferior to Lerby.

 

[Enigma_87]

I don't rate Lerby in that company either. Vidal is not inferior to Lerby.

Indeed. They can very well cancel each other out in this game.

 

[harms]

@crappycraperson @Edgar Allan Pillow which Schuster is this? If he provides vision and distribution, I assume it's an older version of him?

 

[harms]

Will wait until tomorrow, but so far my doubts are mostly regarding Suurbier. With Breitner and Vasovic you have a very adventurous back 4, the one that I wouldn't believe would work in real life if I hadn't seen 1972 Germany myself, but while Schwarzenbeck is just the man for the job (possibly the only one with credentials to match this role), Suurbier is too attacking and unreliable defensively (in comparison with others).

Although Breitner, with his unique style, can as well decide the game with an odd long distance shot like he did against Chile...

And of course there are Maradona and Müller, match winners par excellence. I'm stuck

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Will wait until tomorrow, but so far my doubts are mostly regarding Suurbier.

I touched on this before. Suurbier's threat in this case is in front of him. There are no wingers to exploit the spaces left behind in his attacking runs. In this specific match, his attacking output will be far more than potential defensive errors. When we have the ball, between Breitner and Lerby, Vidal would be hard pressed in the middle.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

I touched on this before. Suurbier's threat in this case is in front of him. There are no wingers to exploit the spaces left behind in his attacking runs. In this specific match, his attacking output will be far more than potential defensive errors. When we have the ball, between Breitner and Lerby, Vidal would be hard pressed in the middle.

What about Heynckes? He looks tailor-made to find space between an attacking full back and the CB to me.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

What about Heynckes? He looks tailor-made to find space between an attacking full back and the CB to me.

The problem with Suurbier is that we might as well play with 10 men. His attacking contribution never gets talked about and his defensive weakness get posted like he's not there at all. I knew this would happen the moment I saw him in crappy's team

Sure Heynckes can get some joy if he stays out wide, but he's a free roaming forward, not a winger in this match. But then since he depends on his fullbacks for width, I think Kalle and Rensenbrink will have far more opportunities to find similar spaces and exploit them.

 

[Member 5225]

Wow and I thought my game was one-sided!

 

[Oaencha]

I like Crappy's team but the opposition is too strong and this was a much easier decision for me. Sjor's team is just brimming with talent. The defence is rock solid and Maradona has so much freedom with Davids and Vidal behind him.

 

[idmanager]

Wow the result was both deserved and undeserved. Sjor's team was better in most of the crucial places in the team individually but crappy's team was good enough to challenge the winners of the other games. Tough draw.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

poll results are irrelevant but this is really harsh on crappy....his team is really good, the only thing id change is maybe a more offensive player(ball carrier) in place of Lerby but other then that the team is spot on. Cheers for helping him out edgar, hope everything is ok with crappy.

 

[Ecstatic]

I didn't need to think in this game. I've voted for sjor because he was involved in the game and crappy didn't post.

Sjor has en excellent starting point to challenge the other favourites (enigma, 2mufc for example)

I hope @crappycraperson is fine.

 

[MJJ]

I didn't need to think in this game. I've voted for sjor because he was involved in the game and crappy didn't post.

Sjor has en excellent starting point to challenge the other favourites (enigma, 2mufc for example)

I hope @crappycraperson is fine.

Well he has been online and posting, I think he just couldnt be bothered with the game once the difference became clear.

 

[crappycraperson]

Well he has been online and posting, I think he just couldnt be bothered with the game once the difference became clear.

No he is right. I got busy with office stuff and a sudden overseas trip that starts today. So it is best sjor won.