People are understandably not happy about the start of the season, but it is not a huge surprise that a side that struggled quite a bit last season also struggle this season. While the club have invested alot, Man Utd only have one new outfield player in the starting lineup. Onana will make a difference, but obviously not as much a player with 100 involvements per game (central defender or midfielder).
When EtH arrived, we probably had two players «suitable for either transition or possession football» and «good enough». Most of these most suited for transition football. And I would argue that those players were Varane (at a stretch), Shaw and Bruno. Maybe Rashford too, but he is not really good/consistent at pressing and his hold up play is subpar. Varane would never play for Pep or Arteta, but maybe Klopp? He is not good in build up sequences. I also think there is probably a few more suitable, just not at the desired level (Lindelof and Elanga).
In fact, the only player really suitable for both possession and transition football at Man Utd when EtH arrived were probably Luke Shaw. Maybe Bruno, but he keeps giving away the ball alot. Consequently, I understand that EtH decided to try make Man Utd the best transition team in the world. A player like Rashford will never have great hold up play, but he can hopefully develop into a better presser. It is probably also more suitable for several of our other players (Varane, AWB, Bruno).
It also turned out we were unable to get a #6 suitable for a more possession oriented style. Instead we got Casemiro. A great DM, but really not a Rodri/Busquets (or Frenkie). As a consequence, embracing a transition style was natural and pragmatic.
Since EtH arrived we have signed Onana, Martinez, Casemiro, Mount, Antony and Hojlund for fees meaning we should expect to see them in the starting line up. Five outfield players. With Hojlund injured, four out of ten outfield players are EtH signings. In my opinion, seven out of ten proven and suitable for what we want to do. Then there is Rashford, Garnacho and AWB who needs work. (That also appear to be the case for Mount in a deeper position.)
It is not a bad state to be in. But it is quite different to Man City when Pep arrived in 2016 where Peps «best friend had been building a side for Pep for years.
It is probably more similar to Arteta who arrived at Arsenal in december 2019. He took over from a coach who shared many of the same principles but had failed to implement them. Arteta finished 8th in 19/20, 8th in 20/21, 5th in 21/22 and 2nd in 22/23. For the first few years he struggled with some of the same issues as we do now. A few expensive egos, several players not suitable and little flexibility due to wasting money on wrong type of players. They were probably in an even worse state when Arteta arrived than Man Utd when EtH came in.
I think the biggest catalyst to their success was the emergence of Saka and Martinelli. To huge talents with desire to be moulded for the type of football Arteta want to play. They made a few good signings as well, but very few great signings. The players who made all the difference and would have been unavailable to them as signings at the time, were Saka and Martinelli (and maybe Odegaard, who to be fair, was great value).
For Liverpool it was quite a different journey. They too probably just had two or three players good enough and suitable (Henderson, Coutinho, Firmino). I took time for Klopp at Liverpool too. Despite the competition being easier compared to what we face today.
Klopp and Edwards managed to identify great value signings in the top five leagues (Matip, Fabinho, Winjaldum, Salah, Mane and Robertson). Salah and Mane was combined cheaper than Lukaku. In fact, those six players combined cost less than Pogba and Lukaku. That allowed them to spend big on van Dijk.
I think this was possible due to Liverpool leading the way with their moneyball approach, and Klopp, with his distinct style of play, being a really good match for that approach.
It is interesting to see how much more they struggle now signing players. A few years ago they could barely get a transfer wrong (only the injury prone ones). I think it is a result of other clubs using the same approach. Both in terms of tactical style, looking for the same type of players, and using the same type of information (statistics). For instance, when they wanted to bring in Tchouameni Real Madrid was all over it. I can imagine that would not have happend in 16-19. Similar with Caicedo.
I think they have had a good window with the addition of Szobo and Mac Allister. But I would be really surprised if Endo will be a player that improve them. At 30 years old he was struggeling at the low end of the Bundesliga. He is a decent player, but very limited. Far from Caicedo, and not as talented as Lavia. Liverpool signing a quite average 30 year old player from the bottom of the Bundesliga, in my opinion, shows how difficult it is to find quality midfielders. They where in need of a 6, and thas was the best player they could find?! In my opinion, it speaks volume!
I also think it is fair to say Darwin and Gakpo is far from Mane/Salah-quality. Darwin cost them a fortune, but like Antony appears to be a bit of a rough diamond. At a minimum they are players that need work.
I think this is illustrative for Man Utd and EtHs challenge at this point. All the clubs are playing a similar style of football, looking for similar type of talents with the same data at hand. Since data provides a type of assurance for the quality of players/talent, the «proven talents» cost even more and it is near impossible to find Mane/Salah type of players in the top five leagues for reasonable fees.
I also think it is worth remembering that Liverpool appears to have alot more flexibility financially than Man Utd. They have gotten rid (Keita, Firmino, Milner, Ox) and sold a bunch of high paid players (Henderson/Fabinho) while we struggle to move on our most expensive players and are pushing the limit of FFP/P&S.
I think it will be near impossible for Man Utd to find and purchase a Frenkie or a Rodri. Those players are hot commodity and all clubs are looking for them. For the past thirty years, we have probably only made two successfull midfield purchases like that (Keane and Carrick). Furthermore, Man City, Chelsea, Bayern, Barca, Real Madrid, Liverpool etc will be all over those type of players. And we are not top of the food chain anymore. We can get lucky, like we hopefully did with Hojlund, but it is not likely.
I think that is why we are trying to develop a player like Mason Mount as EtH believe he have attributes suitable for the position. Hopefully we can develop players like Hannibal and Mainoo aswell. But that will probably take time and there is no guarantees. I know some people think that if Hannibal were given the same amount of game time as Bellingham he would have «been as good today». I don’t think that is the case. Have there even been a successfull U23 midfielder in a top six in the PL since Fabregas?!
TL;DR;
1. We still dont have 11 players good enough and suitable for the football we want to play
2. It will take a bit of time to change that as the club are pushing the limits of FFP/P&S and struggle to shift players.
3. We need to get lucky with a few signings or develop players
4. Klopp had the advantage of being an early mover. Arteta got lucky with a few youngsters. Our manager/coach will compete with a very good Liverpool, Arsenal and City side. And a Chelsea with endless of cash. A Man Utd head coach in 2023 faces a huge challenge and bigger than both Arteta and Klopp did.
When EtH arrived, we probably had two players «suitable for either transition or possession football» and «good enough». Most of these most suited for transition football. And I would argue that those players were Varane (at a stretch), Shaw and Bruno. Maybe Rashford too, but he is not really good/consistent at pressing and his hold up play is subpar. Varane would never play for Pep or Arteta, but maybe Klopp? He is not good in build up sequences. I also think there is probably a few more suitable, just not at the desired level (Lindelof and Elanga).
In fact, the only player really suitable for both possession and transition football at Man Utd when EtH arrived were probably Luke Shaw. Maybe Bruno, but he keeps giving away the ball alot. Consequently, I understand that EtH decided to try make Man Utd the best transition team in the world. A player like Rashford will never have great hold up play, but he can hopefully develop into a better presser. It is probably also more suitable for several of our other players (Varane, AWB, Bruno).
It also turned out we were unable to get a #6 suitable for a more possession oriented style. Instead we got Casemiro. A great DM, but really not a Rodri/Busquets (or Frenkie). As a consequence, embracing a transition style was natural and pragmatic.
Since EtH arrived we have signed Onana, Martinez, Casemiro, Mount, Antony and Hojlund for fees meaning we should expect to see them in the starting line up. Five outfield players. With Hojlund injured, four out of ten outfield players are EtH signings. In my opinion, seven out of ten proven and suitable for what we want to do. Then there is Rashford, Garnacho and AWB who needs work. (That also appear to be the case for Mount in a deeper position.)
It is not a bad state to be in. But it is quite different to Man City when Pep arrived in 2016 where Peps «best friend had been building a side for Pep for years.
It is probably more similar to Arteta who arrived at Arsenal in december 2019. He took over from a coach who shared many of the same principles but had failed to implement them. Arteta finished 8th in 19/20, 8th in 20/21, 5th in 21/22 and 2nd in 22/23. For the first few years he struggled with some of the same issues as we do now. A few expensive egos, several players not suitable and little flexibility due to wasting money on wrong type of players. They were probably in an even worse state when Arteta arrived than Man Utd when EtH came in.
I think the biggest catalyst to their success was the emergence of Saka and Martinelli. To huge talents with desire to be moulded for the type of football Arteta want to play. They made a few good signings as well, but very few great signings. The players who made all the difference and would have been unavailable to them as signings at the time, were Saka and Martinelli (and maybe Odegaard, who to be fair, was great value).
For Liverpool it was quite a different journey. They too probably just had two or three players good enough and suitable (Henderson, Coutinho, Firmino). I took time for Klopp at Liverpool too. Despite the competition being easier compared to what we face today.
Klopp and Edwards managed to identify great value signings in the top five leagues (Matip, Fabinho, Winjaldum, Salah, Mane and Robertson). Salah and Mane was combined cheaper than Lukaku. In fact, those six players combined cost less than Pogba and Lukaku. That allowed them to spend big on van Dijk.
I think this was possible due to Liverpool leading the way with their moneyball approach, and Klopp, with his distinct style of play, being a really good match for that approach.
It is interesting to see how much more they struggle now signing players. A few years ago they could barely get a transfer wrong (only the injury prone ones). I think it is a result of other clubs using the same approach. Both in terms of tactical style, looking for the same type of players, and using the same type of information (statistics). For instance, when they wanted to bring in Tchouameni Real Madrid was all over it. I can imagine that would not have happend in 16-19. Similar with Caicedo.
I think they have had a good window with the addition of Szobo and Mac Allister. But I would be really surprised if Endo will be a player that improve them. At 30 years old he was struggeling at the low end of the Bundesliga. He is a decent player, but very limited. Far from Caicedo, and not as talented as Lavia. Liverpool signing a quite average 30 year old player from the bottom of the Bundesliga, in my opinion, shows how difficult it is to find quality midfielders. They where in need of a 6, and thas was the best player they could find?! In my opinion, it speaks volume!
I also think it is fair to say Darwin and Gakpo is far from Mane/Salah-quality. Darwin cost them a fortune, but like Antony appears to be a bit of a rough diamond. At a minimum they are players that need work.
I think this is illustrative for Man Utd and EtHs challenge at this point. All the clubs are playing a similar style of football, looking for similar type of talents with the same data at hand. Since data provides a type of assurance for the quality of players/talent, the «proven talents» cost even more and it is near impossible to find Mane/Salah type of players in the top five leagues for reasonable fees.
I also think it is worth remembering that Liverpool appears to have alot more flexibility financially than Man Utd. They have gotten rid (Keita, Firmino, Milner, Ox) and sold a bunch of high paid players (Henderson/Fabinho) while we struggle to move on our most expensive players and are pushing the limit of FFP/P&S.
I think it will be near impossible for Man Utd to find and purchase a Frenkie or a Rodri. Those players are hot commodity and all clubs are looking for them. For the past thirty years, we have probably only made two successfull midfield purchases like that (Keane and Carrick). Furthermore, Man City, Chelsea, Bayern, Barca, Real Madrid, Liverpool etc will be all over those type of players. And we are not top of the food chain anymore. We can get lucky, like we hopefully did with Hojlund, but it is not likely.
I think that is why we are trying to develop a player like Mason Mount as EtH believe he have attributes suitable for the position. Hopefully we can develop players like Hannibal and Mainoo aswell. But that will probably take time and there is no guarantees. I know some people think that if Hannibal were given the same amount of game time as Bellingham he would have «been as good today». I don’t think that is the case. Have there even been a successfull U23 midfielder in a top six in the PL since Fabregas?!
TL;DR;
1. We still dont have 11 players good enough and suitable for the football we want to play
2. It will take a bit of time to change that as the club are pushing the limits of FFP/P&S and struggle to shift players.
3. We need to get lucky with a few signings or develop players
4. Klopp had the advantage of being an early mover. Arteta got lucky with a few youngsters. Our manager/coach will compete with a very good Liverpool, Arsenal and City side. And a Chelsea with endless of cash. A Man Utd head coach in 2023 faces a huge challenge and bigger than both Arteta and Klopp did.