The Covid Inquiry

[TheGame]

Probably need a separate thread for this. Some shocking stuff came out yesterday and Dominic Cummings is giving evidence today.

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[TheGame]

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[Superden]

It's harrowing, but it's turned into a sort of pantomime by the right wing press. In any normal world boris would be hiding, instead he's in the daily mail and starting on TV with GBnews..
And the 'poor boris did his best and he got brexit done' voters won't shift thier opinions on him onebit. Thus his supporters still in politics don't need to apologise or face any reckoning..

 

[Badunk]

I suspect it'll be like the Hillsborough Enquiry: we'll know pretty much the overall picture (because we lived it and we know they u-turned on an almost daily basis, we know Johnson didn't give a flying feck, and we know that the scientists were pulling their hair out trying to get the government to understand the seriousness of the situation) but some of the minutiae will be utterly shocking.

 

[TheGame]

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[TheGame]

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[matherto]

I feel horrible that I sort of agree with Johnson but I also didn't see the need to go into a full lockdown just to save the elderly. It wasn't worth it. My grandad who died during COVID at 90 agreed.

Given we have the problem of the ageing population and continued medical care for ever older patients ruining the NHS (not wholly down to that but it's a big part), it seemed silly that the rest of us had to stay in our houses.

I get of course it wasn't just the elderly at risk but to put an entire country (and indeed, the entire world) on ice was horrific.

 

[sullydnl]

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[Vidyoyo]

I feel horrible that I sort of agree with Johnson but I also didn't see the need to go into a full lockdown just to save the elderly. It wasn't worth it. My grandad who died during COVID at 90 agreed.

Given we have the problem of the ageing population and continued medical care for ever older patients ruining the NHS (not wholly down to that but it's a big part), it seemed silly that the rest of us had to stay in our houses.

I get of course it wasn't just the elderly at risk but to put an entire country (and indeed, the entire world) on ice was horrific.

Let's be fair, it was a political and social nightmare either way. I think we went into lockdown too late and for too long in the end. It should have been a primary response at a time when we were finding evidence about how dangerous the virus was. In the end, I don't think it was as dangerous as we thought but so much of the damage had been done going into LD so late.

I also think it's ludicrous they haven't put extra funding into mental health services to deal with the fallout because I think there's still collective trauma sitting deep in society. There's so much about their actions that showed how they weren't, and still aren't, willing to listen to anybody with scientific/human insight. It was an absolute howler of decision-making all round.

Hoping some heads roll after this is all done. Boris' above all.

 

[Pexbo]

I think what you need to remember is that this isn’t going to move a lot of people. They will actually agree with the callous words of Johnson and co.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I feel horrible that I sort of agree with Johnson but I also didn't see the need to go into a full lockdown just to save the elderly. It wasn't worth it. My grandad who died during COVID at 90 agreed.

Given we have the problem of the ageing population and continued medical care for ever older patients ruining the NHS (not wholly down to that but it's a big part), it seemed silly that the rest of us had to stay in our houses.

I get of course it wasn't just the elderly at risk but to put an entire country (and indeed, the entire world) on ice was horrific.

I actually agree with this. I feel guilty saying it as it would have put my parent's at risk but none of them or their friends wanted a full lockdown, their attitude was to get the jabs and crack on, then it's up to the individual to be as careful or carefree as they want.

 

[lynchie]

I feel horrible that I sort of agree with Johnson but I also didn't see the need to go into a full lockdown just to save the elderly. It wasn't worth it. My grandad who died during COVID at 90 agreed.

Given we have the problem of the ageing population and continued medical care for ever older patients ruining the NHS (not wholly down to that but it's a big part), it seemed silly that the rest of us had to stay in our houses.

I get of course it wasn't just the elderly at risk but to put an entire country (and indeed, the entire world) on ice was horrific.

What would you do with those that got sick though? Because just letting the virus rampage leads to a lot of very sick people, and generally in the UK we treat sick people for those illnesses, and we can't do that for a rampaging virus without overwhelming hospitals, traumatising medical professionals, and causing massive collateral damage to people who need hospitals for non-covid stuff. So if your solution is to tell people, if they get COVID and their condition declines, to stay home and take their chances, then that's an interesting viewpoint, but probably not a politically viable one.

 

[matherto]

What would you do with those that got sick though? Because just letting the virus rampage leads to a lot of very sick people, and generally in the UK we treat sick people for those illnesses, and we can't do that for a rampaging virus without overwhelming hospitals, traumatising medical professionals, and causing massive collateral damage to people who need hospitals for non-covid stuff. So if your solution is to tell people, if they get COVID and their condition declines, to stay home and take their chances, then that's an interesting viewpoint, but probably not a politically viable one.

It's a hard question to answer because we have the benefit of hindsight now.

I know for a lot of people COVID has wrecked their bodies but for most of the population it's not more than the flu or a common cold and we treat it now as such. If you asked people now what they would've done I think most would be in favour of no lockdown because they've been through two of them and the trauma they've left behind is appalling. But I couldn't gauge it any more accurately than anyone else so it remains an opinion.

I dunno, we should've done a referendum in January or February or something and gone with that. We love a good referendum and it definitely doesn't divide opinion.

I know it's not popular to say and think about but surely there comes a point where we say enough is enough and we do let people take their chances if it's only affecting a small percentage of the population? It's not fair either way of course but on pure numbers (I mean the amount of dead and seriously ill versus getting a cold or never catching it after the fact) the lockdown was in favour of the minority's health over the majority.

The 'why are we doing this to save old people' sentiment was very strong it felt like during lockdown. We're all gonna be feeling the mental trauma of it for a long time yet.

 

[Buster15]

https://news.sky.com/story/boris-jo...tures-way-of-dealing-with-old-people-12997032

And some people will still love him....

 

[calodo2003]

https://news.sky.com/story/boris-jo...tures-way-of-dealing-with-old-people-12997032

And some people will still love him....

That's Trump level bad.

 

[nickm]

It's a hard question to answer because we have the benefit of hindsight now.

We also had some pretty good ideas of what would happen if we didn't stop the spread, so it's not hindsight.

I know for a lot of people COVID has wrecked their bodies but for most of the population it's not more than the flu or a common cold and we treat it now as such. If you asked people now what they would've done I think most would be in favour of no lockdown because they've been through two of them and the trauma they've left behind is appalling. But I couldn't gauge it any more accurately than anyone else so it remains an opinion.

The first lockdown was inevitable - and two weeks too late. The subsequent ones were largely or partly because the government was unwilling or unable to enforce sensible quarantine and anti virus spreading measures, slowing the spread to a more manageable level. Instead, they did the opposite (eat out to help out), enabling the virus to let rip in care homes, forcing kids back to school too soon into inadequate buildings, then slamming on the lockdown brakes when cases spiked. None of that is hindsight, all of it was called out at the time as bad decision making that just seemed completely oblivious to the maths of exponential growth.

I 100% believe that a more competent government would have saved thousands more lives. They have blood on their hands.

And it's only considered as a Flu type illness now (for the moment) because we are vaccinated.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

There's something very dehumanizing about representing a person, their entire life, dreams, relationships and abilities as a number, and then using that number to decide whether or not they should be left to die.

 

[nickm]

I actually agree with this. I feel guilty saying it as it would have put my parent's at risk but none of them or their friends wanted a full lockdown, their attitude was to get the jabs and crack on, then it's up to the individual to be as careful or carefree as they want.

No government could allow 500,000 deaths and the jabs weren't available at scale until nearly a year into the pandemic. There were no tools other than quarantine measures to slow the spread and protect NHS capacity.

 

[tomaldinho1]

No government could allow 500,000 deaths and the jabs weren't available at scale until nearly a year into the pandemic. There were no tools other than quarantine measures to slow the spread and protect NHS capacity.

Where has that number come from? Surely it would depend on the % of vulnerable adults who chose to isolate.

 

[Buster15]

I 100% believe that a more competent government would have saved thousands more lives. They have blood on their hands.

And it's only considered as a Flu type illness now (for the moment) because we are vaccinated.

Tell you what I also 100% believe is that it would be extremely difficult to find a less competent government. Especially the totally incompetent Boris Johnson, who undoubtedly has blood on his hands. But will get away with it.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

We also had some pretty good ideas of what would happen if we didn't stop the spread, so it's not hindsight.



The first lockdown was inevitable - and two weeks too late. The subsequent ones were largely or partly because the government was unwilling or unable to enforce sensible quarantine and anti virus spreading measures, slowing the spread to a more manageable level. Instead, they did the opposite (eat out to help out), enabling the virus to let rip in care homes, forcing kids back to school too soon into inadequate buildings, then slamming on the lockdown brakes when cases spiked. None of that is hindsight, all of it was called out at the time as bad decision making that just seemed completely oblivious to the maths of exponential growth.

I 100% believe that a more competent government would have saved thousands more lives. They have blood on their hands.

And it's only considered as a Flu type illness now (for the moment) because we are vaccinated.

Won’t most of the vaccines have worn off by now?

 

[rimaldo]

Won’t most of the vaccines have worn off by now?

what, with all the 5g about?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I actually agree with this. I feel guilty saying it as it would have put my parent's at risk but none of them or their friends wanted a full lockdown, their attitude was to get the jabs and crack on, then it's up to the individual to be as careful or carefree as they want.

Which was the right attitude. The lockdown was before the jabs were available though. And at a time when the virus strain in circulation was much more dangerous than the one in circulation by the time everyone was vaccinated.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

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It would be glorious to watch if he wasn’t so obviously turned on by being dominated by a woman. Bleurrrgh…. What in the flying feck is that clip from anyway?

 

[rimaldo]

It would be glorious to watch if he wasn’t so obviously turned on by being dominated by a woman. Bleurrrgh…. What in the flying feck is that clip from anyway?

it’s from britain’s most popular prime-time tv show “where is the cheese?” each week a celebrity is given 10 minutes to hide some cheese in a room, before a shouty woman comes in and tries to break them into telling her where they hid it. if they survive 30 minutes without giving up the cheese, the celebrity is allowed to donate the cheese to a charity of their choosing.

 

[TheGame]

It would be glorious to watch if he wasn’t so obviously turned on by being dominated by a woman. Bleurrrgh…. What in the flying feck is that clip from anyway?

SAS Celebrity, Are You Tough Enough.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

SAS Celebrity, Are You Tough Enough.

Yuk. He’s such a fame hungry little worm.

 

[altodevil]

Why hasn't anyone changed the thread title yet? I'm only posting to say that it makes me vomit a little every time I see it.

 

[TheGame]

Why hasn't anyone changed the thread title yet? I'm only posting to say that it makes me vomit a little every time I see it.

Changed it to what?

 

[Ekkie Thump]

Changed it to what?

Inquiry.

 

[TheGame]

Inquiry.

My bad, changed now.

 

[Badunk]

Changed it to what?

See? That was an enquiry.

 

[TheGame]

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[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Line them all up.

 

[Massive Spanner]

The median age over 82 is probably something a lot will agree with and was constantly handed about here in Ireland at the time too. Surely what you cannot possibly disagree with though is that without lockdowns the health services would’ve been fecked and nobody wanted to see the sort of scenes we saw in Italy and (more extreme) Ecuador, right? Lockdown for me was more about protecting our health service and ensuring those working tirelessly in it weren’t subjected to such grave conditions.

 

[Pexbo]

The median age over 82 is probably something a lot will agree with and was constantly handed about here in Ireland at the time too. Surely what you cannot possibly disagree with though is that without lockdowns the health services would’ve been fecked and nobody wanted to see the sort of scenes we saw in Italy and (more extreme) Ecuador, right? Lockdown for me was more about protecting our health service and ensuring those working tirelessly in it weren’t subjected to such grave conditions.

If they let it tear through the population over 82, the average age of the country and average mortality age stats would fall off a cliff.

 

[esmufc07]

If they let it tear through the population over 82, the average age of the country and average mortality age stats would fall off a cliff.

Nerd alert.

 

[noodlehair]

I feel horrible that I sort of agree with Johnson but I also didn't see the need to go into a full lockdown just to save the elderly. It wasn't worth it. My grandad who died during COVID at 90 agreed.

Given we have the problem of the ageing population and continued medical care for ever older patients ruining the NHS (not wholly down to that but it's a big part), it seemed silly that the rest of us had to stay in our houses.

I get of course it wasn't just the elderly at risk but to put an entire country (and indeed, the entire world) on ice was horrific.

I still don't know where I stand on it. I didn't disagree with a lockdown I just didn't see the point in waiting until it was too late, and then doing a full lockdown...which we did twice. Was it the second or third time we went into lockdown about 2 days after letting all the schools re-open? How did that make any sense?

We couldn't even keep it out of care homes. My dad had to self isolate, caught covid anyway and nearly died.

We're still suffering badly from the after effects of the lockdowns and will do for years yet, and as an added bonus it seems to have made people noticeably more entitled/shit than they were before...and the NHS is still falling apart regardless.

If there's data to show it saved x thousand lives then that's going to sway me obviously, but what this enquiry is showing is that if we'd locked don when we should have, it could have been x thousand more....and if the argument is those lives (regardless of age) are more important than any other negative effects (which is a perfectly fair one), then really Boris should be in jail.

 

[Massive Spanner]

If they let it tear through the population over 82, the average age of the country and average mortality age stats would fall off a cliff.

And we would have lost half of the “is the Utd forum safe yet” posters so… silver linings.

 

[tenpoless]

That WhatsApp screenshot though.... definitely the kind of WhatsApp convo you'd expect from posh people. No xoxo, no emotes, sentences end with (.) and (-) before but.