The Daredevil Draft QF2 | Physiocrat vs. Enigma

With players at their career peak, who would win?


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GodShaveTheQueen

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----------------------------------- PHYSIOCRAT ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ENIGMA-----------------------------------

Physiocrat's write up:

Tactics are basically the same as in this game.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-daredevil-draft-r1-physiocrat-vs-michaelf.457693/

Engima has a tiny defence. Brehme is 5ft 9in, Vogts is 5ft 6in, Chumpitaz 5ft 7in and Guarneri just under 6ft (he could drop Chumpitaz for extra height but that would give him the equivalent ability on the ball as Smalling and Bailly at CB). Crosses from Best, Nedved, Figo and Gerets plus free kicks from Schuster will be aimed at the Heading Monster.

Horst Hrubesch at 6ft 2in was known as the “Heading Monster”. Out of 136 goals he scored in the Bundesliga he scored 81 with his head – he was the target of all of Kaltz’s crosses (at Hamburg he scored 65 goals in 95 games at his peak between 1979 and 1982). He had an excellent leap and heading ability but also provided great hold up play and decent link-up play which will bring the rest of the team into play. He also scored West Germany’s winning goal in the 1980 Euros Final against Belgium.

This is a nice little interview with him.

Lateness defined Horst Hrubesch's career. At 23 he was still plying his trade on the lower rungs of the German football ladder; six years later, however, he was spearheading the national team's attack at the 1980 UEFA European Championship in Italy – after an inevitably last-minute call-up.

His place in the 1980 EURO final against Belgium was in doubt after he failed to score during the group stage, but West Germany coach Jupp Derwall "made the right choice" and retained the burly forward. Hrubesch responded with two goals, including the last-gasp winner. He recalls a memorable summer.

Being the 'Header Monster'...


I was given that nickname by a coach at [Rot-Weiss] Essen. I have always tried to play in as simple a way as possible and, of course, making the most of my abilities. I had a good leap and my timing was decent as well. I played in the Bundesliga for eight years and scored 136 goals; out of those, 81 were scored with my head.

His call-up after Klaus Fischer broke a leg...

I remember getting the call [to say I was in the squad] from Jupp Derwall: it was a highlight of my career. I could have been picked anyway but it is likely I would not have played any games. Even before the European Championship there was a match in Hanover against France that I didn't play in, so everything really happened so fast in the end. I have always started a bit late. I was 23 when I played my first Bundesliga match and then 28 when I played my first international.

I don't know if I would say I was the obvious replacement for Fischer, but I was a natural substitute due to the system at that time. We played a central striker with Klaus Allofs and Karl-Heinz Rummenigge just behind, both very offensive players; you could say the same about our midfield with Bernd Schuster and Hansi Müller. We were very offensive also with full-backs Manfred Kaltz and Hans-Peter Briegel. It was a very offensive team.

Finding his place in a strong lineup...

I wouldn't say we were expected to bring home the title, but we had a good side, one of the best in Europe. We were always capable of dominating the tournament. It was a team that was strong in every position but it was also a team where the players fit together and we played some beautiful football. I didn't really have any problems [settling in]. My co-operation with Kaltz was known from Hamburger SV and Rummenigge was capable of playing with anybody; Hansi Müller and Schuster, the two playmakers, were both geniuses. It was quite simple for me.

Beating the Netherlands 3-2 in the group stage...

We played very well for 70 or 80 minutes. We were leading 3-0 and then they scored two goals. The trio of Bernd Schuster, Hansi Müller and Rummenigge worked very well and Klaus Allofs scored three goals. I did my job and that was a thing that characterised the team. We all worked for each other and we all ran for each other: it was not important whether Allofs or Hrubesch scored the goals. You also saw that in our play in general. We didn't really have one player we depended on – we were good as a team and we managed to dominate that way.

The final...

[My place] was in danger. I had played three matches without scoring and if Derwall hadn't selected me, I couldn't have argued. But looking back, he made the right choice. I recall the opener very well. The Belgians were attacking but before they reached our area, Bernd Schuster broke up the move and started a very direct attack with one or two passes. He played it into my path. It all fitted so well. I scored and it was 1-0; for once with the foot and not the head.

In the second half we definitely saw Belgium's class and they deserved to equalise [on 75 minutes]. We wouldn't have made it in extra time because it would have been too much. It was very hot that day and I recall being so tired after the game that it was hard to lift the trophy. My second goal came from a Karl-Heinz Rummenigge corner on the left. Like all our corners, it was prepared – Rummenigge gave me the signal – and [goalkeeper] Jean-Marie Pfaff made the mistake of staying on his line. I was able to jump high and due to his movement I had no problem placing the ball in the net.


Cristiano Zanetti comes into replace Zito. A combative player with defensive nous and a rather good passer from deep. He was also good in tight spaces and relatively press resistant. He was very much a team player and will provide a platform for Schuster and Nedved to perform.

Here’s an article crediting him with fixing Juve’s midfield in ’09.

We had a lot of injuries last season, and they definitely hurt our campaign. Buffon, Trezeguet, Camoranesi, etc, all fundamental players who were sidelined for months. So were bit-part players like Zebina, He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named, Cristiano Zanetti, De Ceglie, etc. For me, C. Zanetti deserves to be in the first column. There’s no doubt in my mind that he was the most missed player this season.

In the wake of Calciopoli, Juve signed two excellent players on free transfers: Marco Marchionni and Cristiano Zanetti, two signings that proved Moggi’s ability to get it done. For both, their spells at Juventus have been a drop in the limelight, but for different reasons. From his humble origins in Carrara, the same down in which teammate Gianluigi Buffon grew up, Zanetti has tracked all across Italy, a journeyman midfielder. After leaving Fiorentina, he was at 5 clubs in 6 years, from Reggina in Reggio Calabria, to Rome with AS Roma, Inter in Milan, and Cagliari in Sardinia. Finally he settled down at Inter for a 2nd spell where he would be for 5 years (one of many Roma players signed by Inter over the last decade) successfully fighting it out in the Nerazzurri midfield. At this time, he was in the Italy squad, having gone to WC2002 in Japan/Korea and then Euro2004.

As his contract with Inter ran out in 2006, Zanetti had a choice. I don’t remember if Inter offered him a new one, but he wasn’t a fundamental player there anymore and it was time for him to move on. Having playing for Fiorentina, Roma, and Inter, he made a very difficult choice to move to Juve. We payed him well, as the last post confirms he has a solid salary, but this was still moving from Inter the Champions 3rd-place team in Serie A to Serie B, with an unsure future. It could have been two years in Serie B with the points penalties we initially had. But Cristiano took the dive, and joined the team to fight for the Cadetti.

In the return season in Serie A, Cristiano Zanetti was without question the most important player in the team. Since our relegation, our midfield has been that piece of the puzzle we haven’t been able to figure out. Giannichedda wasn’t it, and neither were Tiago, Almiron, or Nocerino. Sissoko eventually claimed a spot in midfield with his arrival, but Cristiano Zanetti proved his importance to the team by winning a starting shirt all season under the Tinkerman, despite starting as a reserve. Zanetti was that defensive-midfielder that Ranieri liked, but more importantly he had excellent passing skills and really turned out to be an excellent, if improvised regista. He controlled the midfield excellently, if you look at the Del Piero capocannoniere video, there’s at least 4-5 assists directly from Zanetti where he excellently played a through ball or a longball perfectly to Del Piero.

We missed his controlling influence and his passing badly last season, a lost season for him due to repeated thigh strains. The midfielders who took his place, Marchisio and Sissoko had good seasons respectively but neither provided the passing that was so desperately needed. Though Bayern Munich was interested in him last summer, he chose to stay. And this season, with only 1 year left on his contract, he could easily leave for a cheap sum as well, but he has said he wants to stay and fight in gratitude to the fans. “I still have a year of contract and I want to repay the affection of the fans,” declared the Italian veteran to tuttomercatoweb.com. “They were close to me even in the most difficult moments during my injury.” Zanetti has proven himself to the fans both on a sporting level and his personality; humble and unselfish.

The positive of Cristiano’s injury was it opened a place for Marchisio to beat Tiago for a starting shirt. Would Marchisio had as much playing time if Zanetti had remained healthy? Probably not. One year later, he’s a little bit older and while he may not be a starter or in the form he was in the return to Serie A, Cristiano Zanetti will be an important part of our midfield if we plan to win any silverware. His committment and loyalty to the Vecchia Signora is beyond question and he is one ex-Interista who has completely won my heart. Forza Zanetti!

Here’s a nice all-touch (ish) compilation that show cases his tackling and passing.



He also scored an absolute peach against the Dipper.

https://footballia.net/players/cristiano-zanetti

(click on the goals tab)

Enigma's write up:


Formation: 4-3-3, balanced defensive line.

DEFENCE:

World class full backs in Brehme and Vogts, balanced CB's in Adams/Guarneri fit for the opposition attackers in terms of style. Brehme - in more attacking, natural role, allowing Rensenbrink to cut in. Vogts will be in a more balanced role, shutting down the opposition winger and assisting in attack.

MIDFIELD:
Rijkaard
provides GOAT protection of our back 4. Van Hanegem as a natural B2B, assisting Kopa in the playmaking department. Kopa - closer to the final third assuming the AM spot.

ATTACK:
Rensenbrink
, Karpin and Puskas - trio capable of great off the ball movement, dribbling ability and one of the best finishers ever - Puskas feeded by creative force - Hanegem/Kopa.

New faces:
Guarneri
was a key player for Grande Inter team that won 3 Scudetto, 2 EC and 2 Interncontinental cups. He had great success playing for Italy too in the 68 EURO winning it with a key role in 6 appearances through the qualifiers and final stages. Guarneri had a good technique than his more aggressive partner Burgnich in the stopper role(both were good foils to Picchi who notoriously wasn't great in the air), but upon his signing for Inter he was switched to the centre, using his speed, positioning and tremendous aerial ability to stop whichever forwards he faced.

Guarneri is a good foil to Adams as we have two very physical CB's that also excel in the air and counter well Hrubesch strength.

Valeri Karpin - Karpin was a part of the great Celta teams of the 90's that featured also Mostovoi, Salgado, Mazinho and Makelele, that narrowly escaped relegation the year before he joined. However with him in the starting lineup they became a top side that consistently finished in top spots, qualifying for European football in every consecutive season. Karpin then joined Real Sociedad side that finished second in 2002/03 just 2 points off Real Madrid. Karpin was a cool midfielder, very modern for that time, aggressive. Karpin performed a huge amount of work in midfield and had a excellent pass, vision and will to win. He was also a prominent figure in the NT, playing in 2 World Cups and 1 EURO.

The new addition Karpin provides flank width, work rate with his ability to help the midfield and also an extra graft and grit in the midfield battle.

 

harms

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Valera! :drool:

How to calm down an angry mob 101. Spartak Moscow loses to Porto 10:3 on aggregate. Karpin goes out to angry fans who (understandably) shout some obscurities towards the team bus. You don't even need a translation, not really :lol:

 

Physiocrat

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Enigma has gone for the extra height in defence although this severely limits the passing ability from the CBs to counter attack and also to provide a solid base for possession. We know all too well what problems that can cause with the current Utd side. Also whilst there is extra height at CB if Hrubesch can get in the gaps between full-backs and CBs he will still be a big threat - Michail Antonio did exactly that for West Ham's first goal of the weekend.

However my side his more than the big man. Given the reinforcements my overall philosophy and style has been largely maintained whereas Rep being dropped for Karpin brings a bit of a different player who was more of a right-midfielder than a RW and isn't as well suited to the role which blunts Enigma's attacking edge. On the other hand Best is still in his best position interchanging with Nedved and I don't think Kopa will be much kop defending here. As an entire unit my midfield three has more workrate which will help tip the balance in the midfield battle. Also Best running towards not the most agile CBs could well be an issue here too.
 

Jim Beam

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Would maybe go for 4-4-2/4-4-1-1 enigma:


Puskas - Kopa
Rensebrink - Van Hanegem - Rijkaard - Karpin
Just the initial thought, will try to add more/vote by tomorrow. On first look, you seem to match pretty good against physio main strengths, although it's still very close.
 

Demyanenko_square_jaw

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There was a good all goals compilation of Karpin's time in la Liga i was going to post, but it seems the account has been taken down. A shame as it was doing good historic work of all-goals comps for post-USSR Russian players and was building up quite a big collection.

Doesn't look like there much at all on there of him now, other than some single goal stuff, but this short collection does show some of his bigger goals against Barca, Liverpool, France and others, including a brilliant volley. The 'pool goal is a classic Grobbelaar blunder and celebration :lol:


He was a dedicated player that deserved better than the shitshow of a system around him that was the '90s Russian NT where a lot of the other players that had a lot of talent like Shalimov, Kulkov, Titov even Mostovoi imo only have themselves to blame a lot of the time for contributing to it. In retrospect leaving Valencia to team up with old Spartak partner mostovoi after the team had a mediocre season (despite striking up a good partnership with Mendieta) was a bad move for his profile outside Spain, considering what they shortly after went on to achieve, yet it was cool to see him form the core in in elevating a team to their best ever time period while getting a lot of recognition for their creative playing style. Probably one of the last times we've seen players that could have been playing for many bigger clubs stick around and do that with a smaller team. Also had a great late career return to Sociedad, playing a big part in them almost winning the league.
 

Enigma_87

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Enigma has gone for the extra height in defence although this severely limits the passing ability from the CBs to counter attack and also to provide a solid base for possession. We know all too well what problems that can cause with the current Utd side. Also whilst there is extra height at CB if Hrubesch can get in the gaps between full-backs and CBs he will still be a big threat - Michail Antonio did exactly that for West Ham's first goal of the weekend.

However my side his more than the big man. Given the reinforcements my overall philosophy and style has been largely maintained whereas Rep being dropped for Karpin brings a bit of a different player who was more of a right-midfielder than a RW and isn't as well suited to the role which blunts Enigma's attacking edge. On the other hand Best is still in his best position interchanging with Nedved and I don't think Kopa will be much kop defending here. As an entire unit my midfield three has more workrate which will help tip the balance in the midfield battle. Also Best running towards not the most agile CBs could well be an issue here too.
Toni Adams grew in terms of ball playing ability in the 90s. Winternburn wasn’t exactly a ball playing either yet functioned well as a unit. Also Brehme was one of the best playmaking full backs so I don’t think this is an issue.

Guarneri for one was a very agile defender visible from the video above.

I think our defence matches really well to your attack.

On the other hand I see big mismatch in Kopa vs Cristian Zanetti and Puskas should also have advantage over your Cb pair.
 

Physiocrat

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Toni Adams grew in terms of ball playing ability in the 90s. Winternburn wasn’t exactly a ball playing either yet functioned well as a unit. Also Brehme was one of the best playmaking full backs so I don’t think this is an issue.

Guarneri for one was a very agile defender visible from the video above.

I think our defence matches really well to your attack.

On the other hand I see big mismatch in Kopa vs Cristian Zanetti and Puskas should also have advantage over your Cb pair.
1. Whilst Adams may have improved his ball playing ability he was hardly good enough to enable quick transitions well. Yes Brehme was a playmaker but you lack the ability in the middle which is more important as you can utilise more options from the middle than anywhere else.

2. Guarneri looks decent from the video but hard to tell exactly how agile. Not normally a problem but Best is another level. Also Adams was not that agile from memory and he is at RCB so will come up against Best and Nedved

3. Your full-backs are very good, it is just your CBs that are the problem. Also I think you attack doesn't function as well as it did in the first game

4. The midfield is entire unit so it won't just be Kopa on Zanetti and as the all-touch compilation shows he was quite a nimble operator (even towards the end of his career) and had a good footballing brain. As mentioned before I think it is Nedved that lifts my midfield relative you yours in its defensive capacity.
 

Synco

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Like in the other game, I really like the role player choices here. Zanetti fits right in & Hrubesch is going to be a real threat with the quality of service he'll get in that team.

Enigma's Karpin & Guarneri were less known to me, but the material on them looks convincing at first sight.
On the other hand I see big mismatch in Kopa vs Cristian Zanetti and Puskas should also have advantage over your Cb pair.
Don't know Vasovic enough, but I think Ferrara is pretty much ideal for dealing with Puskas when he enters his zone. Much underrated defender. Although Puskas' movement and sheer quality will always be a source of danger.
4. The midfield is entire unit so it won't just be Kopa on Zanetti and as the all-touch compilation shows he was quite a nimble operator (even towards the end of his career) and had a good footballing brain. As mentioned before I think it is Nedved that lifts my midfield relative you yours in its defensive capacity.
Agree with the general argument here, although Rijkaard is a huge plus to be factored in on Enigma's side.
 

Synco

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What do people think of Puskas as a CF (false 9?) in a 4-2-3-1?

He has a great set of link-up partners here for sure, so I guess Enigma is envisioning a kind of "small ball" whirlwind offense. But maybe all of them would profit from a CF presence to play off & really work the CBs, or am I too old school?

Honest question, I'm unsure.
 

Enigma_87

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1. Whilst Adams may have improved his ball playing ability he was hardly good enough to enable quick transitions well. Yes Brehme was a playmaker but you lack the ability in the middle which is more important as you can utilise more options from the middle than anywhere else.

2. Guarneri looks decent from the video but hard to tell exactly how agile. Not normally a problem but Best is another level. Also Adams was not that agile from memory and he is at RCB so will come up against Best and Nedved

3. Your full-backs are very good, it is just your CBs that are the problem. Also I think you attack doesn't function as well as it did in the first game

4. The midfield is entire unit so it won't just be Kopa on Zanetti and as the all-touch compilation shows he was quite a nimble operator (even towards the end of his career) and had a good footballing brain. As mentioned before I think it is Nedved that lifts my midfield relative you yours in its defensive capacity.
1. Rijkaard has good ability on the ball and can move the ball up. Van Hanegem also can drop in to participate in the build up if needed. Our core is a solid enough and good enough on the ball, considering we aren't playing tiki taka style - far from it. It's not really uncommon for Van Hanegem either to drop deep and initiate moves when in possession, he was quite capable of that for example and did it often for Feyenoord.

2. From what I saw from Guarneri - he's quite agile and strong. I've went through some games for the draft before picking him and impressed me more than Picchi for example for that center role. Burgnich was also very good but he was defending wide more often than not and Guarneri's background of being a full back would be a very nice fit to cover a winger that cuts in.

3. Rijkaard provides the best protection you could have in terms of screening the CB's. As good Hrubesch was I don't rate him higher than someone like Adams for example, and both are strong in the air as a unit. The attack is pretty much the same as in the first game, so it's a strange comment. Karpin provides a lot of movement and stamina to help the midfield. Whilst I rate Rep more I don't think the gap between is really big, nor the style they offer to their teammates.

4. Kopa is one of the best AM's and hugely underrated in drafts. His low center of gravity, nimbleness and quality on the ball is IMO well ahead of Zanetti who (despite a team effort) would most likely face more often than not. Zanetti also was very injury prone from memories and couldn't really hit consistency in his form over prolonged period of time. In terms of pure quality Cristian Zanetti is by far the weakest player and link in both midfields and the way Kopa utilized his movement between the lines was really a match winning advantage for me.
 

Enigma_87

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Don't know Vasovic enough, but I think Ferrara is pretty much ideal for dealing with Puskas when he enters his zone. Much underrated defender. Although Puskas' movement and sheer quality will always be a source of danger.
In terms of quality Puskas is one of the greatest #9 in the game and a complete forward as you get. It's not that I don't rate Ferrara, but Puskas with Kopa, Rensenbrink, Karpin and Van Hanegem behind him will get plenty of service and he's if not the best finisher in the game, right up there with the rest.
Agree with the general argument here, although Rijkaard is a huge plus to be factored in on Enigma's side.
Rijkaard is a huge plus, but also Van Hanegem is a very imposing figure that adds to the midfield and to me the pace of the game will really suit him. Karpin is very well known for his will to win (sometimes even more than you would imagine) so his presence adds to the general style that we want to impose here.
 

Enigma_87

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@Physiocrat which is the three year period that you would consider Cristian Zanetti at his peak? I just checked some sources and he was injured most of 08/09 season and struggled to be fit in most of his time at Inter, whilst he joined Juve being in his 30's.

Kopa operating in that zone is a big advantage considering he was very injury prone player and at the time most probably already lost step or two.


With his quick feet Kopa left a lot of defenders on the deck and with opportunity to find and combine with Puskas or cutting it Rensenbrink it provides us with numerical advantage in that zone when he beats his marker.
 

harms

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I’m not sure how I would’ve rated those teams in isolation (I love so much about Physio’s side), but I feel like Enigma has very good answers to Physio’s main threats, while his central core is going to be very hard to contain. Very unfavorable match-up for Physio.
 

Gio

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I’m not sure how I would’ve rated those teams in isolation (I love so much about Physio’s side), but I feel like Enigma has very good answers to Physio’s main threats, while his central core is going to be very hard to contain. Very unfavorable match-up for Physio.
Basically this for me too.
 

Physiocrat

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@Physiocrat which is the three year period that you would consider Cristian Zanetti at his peak? I just checked some sources and he was injured most of 08/09 season and struggled to be fit in most of his time at Inter, whilst he joined Juve being in his 30's.
It is true he had problems with injuries. I would put his peak at late Roma and early Inter, 2000-2003. That's the period he was least bothered by injuries over a consistent period. I posted the stuff about his Juve career because it was the most detailed on his style of play and it was the only all-touch compilation I could find. All this said he was nimble at Juve and was even more so in his early career so his movement fit better than many DMs who aren't that mobile.
 

Physiocrat

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1. Rijkaard has good ability on the ball and can move the ball up. Van Hanegem also can drop in to participate in the build up if needed. Our core is a solid enough and good enough on the ball, considering we aren't playing tiki taka style - far from it. It's not really uncommon for Van Hanegem either to drop deep and initiate moves when in possession, he was quite capable of that for example and did it often for Feyenoord.
No-one denied that. It is just a significant weakness not to have a good passer at CB to provide quick transitions.

2. From what I saw from Guarneri - he's quite agile and strong. I've went through some games for the draft before picking him and impressed me more than Picchi for example for that center role. Burgnich was also very good but he was defending wide more often than not and Guarneri's background of being a full back would be a very nice fit to cover a winger that cuts in.
Adams on the other hand is on Best's side and Adams for all his physically was not agile from memory which is a terrible fit for a slaloming Best.

3. Rijkaard provides the best protection you could have in terms of screening the CB's. As good Hrubesch was I don't rate him higher than someone like Adams for example, and both are strong in the air as a unit. The attack is pretty much the same as in the first game, so it's a strange comment. Karpin provides a lot of movement and stamina to help the midfield. Whilst I rate Rep more I don't think the gap between is really big, nor the style they offer to their teammates.
From what I know of Karpin he is not a genuine RW, he was more of a side-midfielder. That's not a problem in a 433 if you have an attacking RB. Now Vogts was better going forward than he is generally given credit for but behind Karpin a Leandro type would make more sense. Now whether that messes the rest of the balance up is another question.

True Adams was good in the air however with all the supply Hrubesch will get from Best, Nedved, Figo, Schuster and Gerets I simply can't see Hrubesch being shut out for the entire game. On a general comment on Adams, I have heard a good number of Arsenal fans say Steve Bould was the better CB.
 

Physiocrat

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Cheers, mate. Have to say didn’t fancy facing your team and it was by far my favourite from all.
:cool: I had yours at no.2 in the seedings too. I didn't really want to come up against you. If only you had stuck with Chumpitaz and I may have won.