The Daredevil Draft QF3 | Jim Beam vs. Pat_Mustard

With all players at their peak, which team do you think would win this game?


  • Total voters
    8
  • Poll closed .

GodShaveTheQueen

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------------------------------------ JIM BEAM-------------------------------------------------------------------------- PAT MUSTARD-----------------------------------

Jim Beam's write up:

Tactics: 4-3-3, high press, high possession with emphasis on dominating the game, players interchanging position during the attack.

Tom Finney goes to the right in a role that should suit him to the teeth in this set-up enabling him to cause havoc from his favorite position during Preston North End days.

Style of play: Emphasis not only on possession for the sake of it but on hurting the other team while being in possession through the gaps that open up. The team must act as a collective in both phases of the game.

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Velimir Zajec


A two time Yugoslavian player of the year (1979, 1984) and one of the best Croatian players of all time, Dinamo Zagreb and Panathinaikos legend who also played as a midfielder, but his best performances came as a defender.




What makes the above achievement even more admirable is that he is the only defender to win it twice and only one along with Dragan Stojković who managed to win it twice.

As a Dinamo captain he was the leader of the team which won the Yugoslavian championship after 24 years (shorter then Pool, la!!) picking 2 cups before going to Panathinaikos where he again won 1 league trophy and 2 cups taking a very average team to the semi-final of European Cup in 1985 where they were thrown out by Liverpool.

For the Former Yugoslavia national team, Zajec played 36 games (1977-85), scored one goal, and was a captain of Yugoslavia 1982 World Cup squad held in Spain.

What he will bring to the team?

Velimir Zajec was a brilliant footballer first and foremost, positionally sound, calm, and confident in defence with great marking abilities and always on the front foot. To cut it short, he is the most skillful defender to come out of the former Yugoslavia. And his passing and ball-playing abilities were on another level. Yes, I would put him easily above even Velibor Vasović, not because I have him now, but just looking purely at the technique and the way they played. Just incredible for a defender as you can see from the rare footage.



The man just glided through the field if given the opportunity, with fantastic vision and passing, and will add even more to the already exceptional ball-playing ability of the team. He has a perfect environment with Camacho, Baresi, and Voronin or the way the team is shaped to be in his element.


João Manuel Vieira Pinto or shortly João Pinto

An already familiar name to most people. Blessed with playmaking and goalscoring ability and one of the key figures from the Portuguese "Golden Generation" along with Rui Costa and Luis Figo. A forward who was technically brilliant, but probably far more rated in Portugal then outside as he is considered as one of the best players that gave his best years to the Portuguese league.





What he will bring to the team?

Pinto was a technically brilliant player, possessing both great passing ability along with being a dangerous goalscorer (at his peak, in 3 seasons he scored 57 goals in 126 games for Benfica). He was a player who operated behind the main striker and all over the attacking line. He was also very aggressive in the defensive phase and had a knack for turning it on in the biggest games.

On 14 May 1994, league leaders Benfica went to Sporting while surging towards the title. A competitive game on paper, this was sure to be a title decider, with Porto and Sporting scratching at Benfica’s heels. That afternoon belonged to João Pinto as he showed off his undoubted skill with a brilliant hat-trick in a staggering 6-3 away win at the Estádio José Alvalade.
On the other side was a certain Luis Figo, but the game fully belonged to Pinto. The performance that evening was great as it could be and wouldn't be out of place in "best hat-tricks of all time" books, adding 2 assists with it and deciding the league title in the process.



Pat Mustard's write up:

Formation: 4-2-3-1
Style of Play: Counter-attacking with quick transitions. Fortress of a defence, bulwarked by a hard-working central midfield, is built to withstand protracted spells of pressure. All defenders are excellent on the ball too, and along with the technically adroit trio of Dunga, Modric and Magath, will provide a high quality of service to the match-winners up front.

Felix Magath:

Best known these days as a mentalist manager who attempts to treat injuries with cheese, Magath was an outstanding, technically magnificent attacking midfielder in his day. The nerve centre and orchestrator of an outstanding Hamburg team in the late 70s and early 80s, he won 3 Bundesliga titles, a European Cup and a European Cup-Winners Cup, as well as Euro 80 with West Germany. Rated world class once and international class 8 times by Germany's Kicker magazine, he twice featured in their team of the season, and was described by them as follows in July 1983 when he usurped the great Paul Breitner as ther highest-ranked offensive midfielder:

"In Felix Magath, Breitner has a worthy successor. To be sure, the playmaker of HSV does not appear as dynamic as Breitner but he is more inventive and technically superior. Wonderful are his crosses that he bends so well and his freekicks and his well-timed passes. Magath's fantastic ball control also was seen when he scored his "goal of the year" in Athens against Juventus. Too bad that the 29-year old has resigned from playing in the national team. Magath could be very useful for Derwall's team.

An all-touches video of his performance vs Nottingham Forest in the 1980 European Cup Final:


I've started making one for his match-winning performance vs Juve in the 183 European Cup final but I'm unlikely to get it finished before this match ends, but suffice to say he looks brilliant against illutrious opponents. Here's his winning goal anyway:


Luc Nilis:

"I’ve played with big players like Figo, Romario, Zidane, Rivaldo, Djorkaeff and Raul, but it clicked best with Luc Nilis, with whom I played at PSV.” Ronaldo

"He was the master for me." Ruud van Nistelrooy

High praise from two of the greatest forwards of their generation, and indicative of Nilis' cerebral and selfless style of play. The assist for Ruud at the start of this video illustrates this perfectly, squaring the ball for an easy tap-in rather than taking the shot himself:


Remarkably, given Ronaldo's meteoric rise at PSV, it was Nilis rather than the great Brazilian who won the Dutch Footballer of the Year award in 1995, which he followed up with two consecutive seasons where he finished as Eredivisie top scorer. Sadly, he suffered a career-ending injury only three matches into his stint at Aston Villa when he could have announced his talents to a broader audience, but not before scoring this superb debut goal:

 
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GodShaveTheQueen

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Might I take the opportunity to say those are two brilliant write ups. Super impressed.
 

Jim Beam

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Might I take the opportunity to say those are two brilliant write ups. Super impressed.
Am impressed that you are impressed.

Thanks for setting it up and good luck @Pat_Mustard!

I said after the reinforcements that you get away from me as a recognition of a great round for you. And I stand by that, both Magath and Nilis wouldn't be out of place in underrated 11 in here.

However... I didn't know you will bench Neeskens out of all people. Maybe it is your version of techno midgets against mine, but I wouldn't do it personally and I much prefer going against this midfield.

I love Modric, but I don't think you will get the best out of him in double pivot. It is a counter-attacking set up, so it is more favorable, but still watching him all my life am certain he is best on the front foot as a right midfielder in a 4-3-3 or the most advanced midfielder behind the attacker similar to Magath role here (heck, the game of his career probably came from that position against what you can consider still peak Xavi and Iniesta in Euro 2012)


Spain should have gone out from the group right there and then on the basis of that brilliant performance (not sure why am I giving this to you once I watched it again though :nervous:)

Oh yes, anyway! He is such a brilliant player and can work in both possession based tactics and counter-attacking one, but as a needle kind of player (Iniesta goes in the same group for me) you pair him ideally with a controller (Xavi as a prime example, Kroos more familiar) who can get him into better positions where he can penatrate and carry the ball into the final 3rd. Once you have that you are getting the most out of him.

Nilis is also a brilliant player and those quotes from both RVN and Ronaldo were familiar to me. As a slight remark I would put that both players were his partners upfront and pretty much pure strikers and he doesn't have this here.

These are minor remarks, it is still very workable and the team is great. But, wouldn't say it is optimal though and once again I definitely (in this set-up) wouldn't put Neeskens on the bench.

As for the game, it is clear I will dominate the possession and no matter how great Robben or Neymar are, peak Xavi in such a game is an ultimate cheat code and, together with Iniesta, will test the other team time and time again putting front three, especially Finney in favorable positions to win the game. Xavi was so good in controlling the game and surgically open you constantly, along with being so brilliant with the ball in congested areas, that pressing him was impossible. Once he lost his legs and couldn't cope so much physically both Barcelona and Spain were far more suspicious to counter-attacks. Once he was gone, well, we've seen it...

What am trying to say is that, considering all the above, his underrating during draft games stays one of the biggest mysteries to me regularly being able to get picked in 3rd or 4th round. Hope at least that perception can change.

Anyway, will try to add few of more thoughts tomorrow as my internet went to shit and typing all this on the phone is extremely annoying!!
 
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Šjor Bepo

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two insanely good teams, was leaning towards mustard but how can you vote against Xaviesta? will again cowardly crawl to the corner and not vote
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Neeskens was dropped by the way. I'd like to hear the thought process around that, didn't find any in the OP
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
Late to the party here but I'll explain the rationale behind benching Neeskens. Basically I'd planned for another system entirely that I'd have played against any oppoent except Xaviesta managed by Peak Beam, so the draw was utter shite for me :D.

I had two or three tactics in mind here that I'll post after the match, but I was never dropping Modric given his proven ability to compete effectively against the Xaviesta juggernaut so when I decided on 4-2-3-1 it was basically two out three between him, Dunga and Neeskens, with Modric/Neeskens looking too attacking vs Beam's lot. Will try to elaborate a bit later!
 

Physiocrat

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@Jim Beam Zajec looks absolute quality - the Balkan Kaiser. My concern is that he is paired with Baresi - both would want to make forward runs. Also given the general style Zajec had he would likely have been the brains of a defence in terms of organisation which may clash with Baresi who would want to do the same.
 

Jim Beam

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After back and forth on which day we will play, we probably took the worst one for the debate. @Pat_Mustard tough luck, great team, and was definitely closer then the result suggested. I wasn't looking forward to going against that defence and the team in general. Would like to hear your reasons for not picking Neeskens still.

@Jim Beam Zajec looks absolute quality - the Balkan Kaiser. My concern is that he is paired with Baresi - both would want to make forward runs. Also given the general style Zajec had he would likely have been the brains of a defence in terms of organisation which may clash with Baresi who would want to do the same.
Yeah, the question is pretty valid. They would have to adjust their game a bit. Funny that you said Balkan Kaiser as that is what my uncle said when I tried to get more information and I watched one game from that time. He was indeed technically brilliant and loved adding to the attack with brilliant faints and great passing ability. However, for Yugoslavia where that talent was higher, he was a bit more reserved and mostly let midfield to run the game. If the gap opened up he would attack it, but it definitely wasn't gung-ho. The way I see it, you have Baresi who did go forward from time to time, but also often went for the long, direct passes and Zajec who was more about the technique and short passing. So, overall you covered pretty much all basis and it gives a variety at the back adding to already great passing ability throughout the team.
In short, if one goes forward the other one covers with the addition of Voronin who can drop back. I think if it clicks, it could work to great extent, especially as Baresi was brilliant in organizing the defence, so he would be aware and alert for any Zajec runs forward. If I didn't have Baresi, Voronin and even defensive presence of Camacho who can tuck in on his side I wouldn't play him in this system.

Nice sheep choices here. Did Pinto play off the left much @Jim Beam ?
He operated mostly behind the main striker centrally in Portuguese league but could play all over the attacking line (from what I read). For Portugal he definitely played on the left often. For example, I watched that famous 3-2 game against England at Euro 2000 before picking him. It was:
Nuno Gomes
Joao Pinto - Rui Costa - Figo
Quite logical considering the personnel.
 
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Gio

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He operated mostly behind the main striker centrally in Portuguese league but could play all over the attacking line (from what I read). For Portugal he definitely played on the left often. For example, I watched that famous 3-2 game against England at Euro 2000 before picking him. It was:
Nuno Gomes
Joao Pinto - Rui Costa - Figo
Quite logical considering the personnel.
Right enough, some performance that was from the front four.
 

Gio

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@Pat_Mustard Thought the team was sensational in the first round. Strong complementary midfield, clean attack, bulletproof defence. The sheep quality was good here, both cracking players, but the team seemed to unravel a little with Neeskens - a man built to tackle Xaviesta - kicking his heels on the bench.
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
After back and forth on which day we will play, we probably took the worst one for the debate. @Pat_Mustard tough luck, great team, and was definitely closer then the result suggested. I wasn't looking forward to going against that defence and the team in general. Would like to hear your reasons for not picking Neeskens still.
@Pat_Mustard Thought the team was sensational in the first round. Strong complementary midfield, clean attack, bulletproof defence. The sheep quality was good here, both cracking players, but the team seemed to unravel a little with Neeskens - a man built to tackle Xaviesta - kicking his heels on the bench.
Cheers lads and well played Jim! I realised almost as soon as I submitted my tactics that dropping Neeskens wasn't so much bold as grotesquely stupid, and then it dawned on me when I posted earlier that I don't even have an adequate rationale...and I was completely sober when I decided on my tactics and did my writeup :houllier:

Original plan after picking Magath and Nilis as I mentioned earlier and divulged to Beam before was this Pep-esque setup:

[


but it seemed all wrong to go for a possession tactic versus Xaviesta. Still wish I'd played it this way anyway as I like it a lot.

Considered a narrow 4-4-2 Simeone style as well:

Schumacher
Lahm Figueroa Nesta Irwin
Neeskens Modric Dunga Magath
Nilis Villa
which I think would have been my best bet in a real-life match but lacked a bit of star quality and punch going forward. Magath loved those wide left areas:

Kicker said:
A technically extraordinary midfielder who could dictate the rhythm of a game with his high intelligence. Known for his cultured short passing and very good long passing, Magath at times resembled a classic playmaker but did not really embrace that role as he preferred to operate on the left side of midfield and not in a central position. What he definitely lacked was good pace. Great ball control in tight spaces but not a player who would cover a lot of ground. Could be quite dangerous with his left foot. Magath was astute at sensing the rhythm and the structure of a game but lacked a certain punch.
Nilis looks fully at home alongside a partner up front which I like.

Diamond:

Schumacher
Lahm Figueroa Nesta Irwin
Dunga
Neeskens Modric
Magath
Nilis Neymar/Robben
in retrospect looks better than what I actually played imo but still not quite right. Ultimately I think I was just over-ambitious in trying to accomodate two sheep reinforcements in such prominent roles. Originally intended to go for Eric Di Meco as a straight swap for Irwin which would have been so much more straightforward.
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
Also @Gio Franck Sauzee was the very first name that came to mind for me when I saw the choose your own sheep idea, and I toyed with the idea of selecting him as a Dunga substitute at the base of my midfield. Had a feeling we'd both end up going after him but he didn't end up getting a look-in at all. Did you consider him at all?
 

Gio

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Also @Gio Franck Sauzee was the very first name that came to mind for me when I saw the choose your own sheep idea, and I toyed with the idea of selecting him as a Dunga substitute at the base of my midfield. Had a feeling we'd both end up going after him but he didn't end up getting a look-in at all. Did you consider him at all?
Ha! Yes, first man on my list. Really underappreciated relative to some of his peers as, for me, he was the main man in their CL winning side, but he wasn't quite the fit we needed tbh.